[00:00:00.000] questioning, but I'm going to move on to
[00:00:01.120] Mr. Borland's opening statements.
[00:00:06.160] >> Good morning, members of the task force
[00:00:07.759] on the committee. I would like to
[00:00:09.280] express my gratitude for being invited
[00:00:11.120] to testify to the current task force
[00:00:12.960] created under the people's chamber and
[00:00:14.719] the American public. As an American
[00:00:17.199] citizen, veteran, and intelligence
[00:00:18.880] community pref professional, it is an
[00:00:20.800] honor and a privilege to serve under
[00:00:22.400] oath before you on behalf of our
[00:00:24.400] country. I speak for myself and no
[00:00:26.800] former agency or company I have been
[00:00:28.720] previously affiliated with. My name is
[00:00:31.359] Dylan Borland, a former 1N1 geospatial
[00:00:34.480] intelligence specialist for the United
[00:00:36.000] States Air Force in an active duty
[00:00:37.520] enlisted capacity from 2010 to 2013.
[00:00:40.960] I've also been employed with BAE Systems
[00:00:43.040] and Intrepid Solutions as a senior
[00:00:44.960] analyst expert in analyzing video,
[00:00:47.760] radar, and advanced electroloptical
[00:00:49.920] imagery for official identification of
[00:00:52.000] aerial order of battle as well as naval
[00:00:54.320] and ground order of battle. I'm a
[00:00:56.719] federal whistleblower, having testified
[00:00:58.480] to both the ICIG and Arrow with direct
[00:01:01.600] firsthand knowledge of and experience
[00:01:03.280] with craft and technologies that are not
[00:01:05.360] ours and are reportedly operating
[00:01:06.960] without congressional oversight.
[00:01:09.439] Because of my direct knowledge of the
[00:01:11.360] reality of certain legacy UAP programs,
[00:01:13.840] my professional career was deliberately
[00:01:16.000] obstructed and I have endured endured
[00:01:19.439] sustained reprisals from government
[00:01:21.119] agencies for over a decade. From 2011 to
[00:01:24.720] 2013, I was stationed at Langley Air
[00:01:26.720] Force Base, Virginia, conducting 24-hour
[00:01:28.799] operations via manned and unmanned
[00:01:30.400] aerial vehicles for special operations
[00:01:32.320] forces in the global war on terror.
[00:01:35.200] During the summer of 2012, my team was
[00:01:37.040] on standby for weather and I returned to
[00:01:38.799] my barracks on base and at approximately
[00:01:41.040] 0130, I saw an approximately 100 ft
[00:01:44.479] equilateral triangle take off from near
[00:01:46.399] the NASA hanger on the base. The craft
[00:01:49.680] interfere with my telephone,
[00:01:52.159] did not have any sound, and the material
[00:01:54.000] it was made of appeared fluid or
[00:01:55.840] dynamic.
[00:01:57.920] I was under this triangular craft for a
[00:01:59.680] few minutes and then it rapidly ascended
[00:02:01.360] to commercial jet level in seconds
[00:02:03.280] displaying zero kinetic disturbance
[00:02:05.200] sound or wind displacement.
[00:02:07.600] Some years after that experience, I was
[00:02:09.280] further exposed to classified
[00:02:10.640] information from the UAP legacy crash
[00:02:12.640] retrieval program through a sensitive
[00:02:14.319] position I held within a special access
[00:02:16.319] program. During this time, intelligence
[00:02:19.120] officers approached me in fear for their
[00:02:20.720] own careers, citing mis misconduct
[00:02:22.720] within these programs, and similar
[00:02:24.640] retaliation that I was already enduring
[00:02:26.319] at this time.
[00:02:29.040] These issues include medical malpractice
[00:02:31.120] committed by veterans affairs staff,
[00:02:32.800] denial of work I performed while
[00:02:34.319] enlisted in the United States Air Force,
[00:02:36.239] forge and manipulated employment
[00:02:37.760] documents, workplace harassment,
[00:02:39.519] including colleagues being directed to
[00:02:41.120] not speak with me, manipulation of my
[00:02:43.360] security clearance by certain agencies,
[00:02:45.519] blocking, delaying, and ultimately
[00:02:47.519] removing my ability to be employed
[00:02:49.599] within the IC.
[00:02:52.560] The retaliation I face and the
[00:02:54.080] retaliation against individuals I know
[00:02:55.840] who worked in these programs is what
[00:02:57.280] convinced me in March 2023 to become a
[00:02:59.360] whistleblower. I came forward out of
[00:03:01.519] concern for people's lives and to ensure
[00:03:03.280] I did everything I could to let our
[00:03:04.879] elected representatives know the truth
[00:03:06.640] about what is really happening in the
[00:03:08.400] executive branch.
[00:03:10.959] At the end of March 2023, I agreed to
[00:03:13.120] meet with Arrow following the suggestion
[00:03:14.879] of other federal officials believing it
[00:03:17.519] was what our nation required of me. I
[00:03:19.760] had reservations with Arrow due to
[00:03:21.840] assessments they were reporting publicly
[00:03:23.440] at the time as a misrepresentation of
[00:03:25.680] the truth. Because of these concerns, I
[00:03:28.640] did not share sources and methods
[00:03:30.080] information in order to protect current
[00:03:32.080] and formal federal person personnel who
[00:03:34.319] had firsthand exposure to technologies
[00:03:36.239] of unknown origin. I did not want anyone
[00:03:38.560] to face further retaliation beyond what
[00:03:40.400] they had already endured. And
[00:03:41.920] unfortunately, a staff member
[00:03:45.040] ended up uh getting in some trouble
[00:03:46.879] because of that.
[00:03:48.879] After David Grush testified under oath
[00:03:50.799] in the summer of 2023 and provided
[00:03:52.799] historic disclosure, I was then asked to
[00:03:54.560] go to the ICIG and did so in August
[00:03:56.799] 2023. It was very clear early on during
[00:03:59.840] my intake interview, which was video
[00:04:01.760] recorded under oath, that the objective
[00:04:04.480] was to solely assess how much I know and
[00:04:06.560] not move forward with an investigation
[00:04:08.720] with new information I provided them.
[00:04:11.439] The aftermath of that IG complaint still
[00:04:13.920] troubles me to this day. Since my ICIG
[00:04:17.040] complaint, I've been prevented from
[00:04:18.320] resuming prior employment and can
[00:04:19.919] confirm I'm still blacklisted from
[00:04:21.600] certain agencies within the intelligence
[00:04:23.360] community. In addition, multiple
[00:04:25.520] agencies attempted fishing attacks to
[00:04:27.280] assess what I had divulged to the
[00:04:28.800] inspector general, including being asked
[00:04:30.880] to disclose details of my ICIG complaint
[00:04:33.360] during a CI polygraph or a position
[00:04:35.440] unrelated to UFO UAP matters as recently
[00:04:38.320] as November 2024.
[00:04:40.720] As I sit before you today, I and many
[00:04:42.720] other whistleblowers have no job
[00:04:44.320] prospects, no foreseeable professional
[00:04:46.400] future in a nation every single one of
[00:04:48.560] us came forward to defend.
[00:04:51.600] Numerous individuals have come forward
[00:04:53.199] in various ways to reveal the truth of
[00:04:54.880] the UAP reality as patriots and
[00:04:56.720] defenders of our nation. Yet many feel
[00:04:58.880] discarded, isolated, hopeless, separated
[00:05:01.600] from the country they serve. Efforts to
[00:05:03.919] rectify this situation for all
[00:05:05.520] whistleblowers have been difficult and
[00:05:07.360] troubling. And to my fellow
[00:05:09.039] whistleblowers and officials who know
[00:05:10.720] this information,
[00:05:13.199] I offer you my apology. Something that I
[00:05:15.919] have never gotten, and I'm giving it to
[00:05:18.000] you.
[00:05:19.680] I swore an oath to the Constitution of
[00:05:21.600] the United States, an oath that demands
[00:05:23.199] truth and transparency for our
[00:05:24.720] democratic republic to function. Each
[00:05:27.600] day, these truths remain hidden from our
[00:05:29.360] citizens. Humanity drifts further from
[00:05:31.199] the principles our nation was founded to
[00:05:33.120] uphold.
[00:05:35.120] Each day, victims of crimes committed by
[00:05:37.039] agencies and companies maintaining this
[00:05:38.880] secrecy are denied justice is another
[00:05:40.639] day our constitution is shredded.
[00:05:43.600] In 2023, Patriots provided this
[00:05:46.080] committee and the executive branch with
[00:05:47.680] undeniable proof of the UAP reality, and
[00:05:50.560] I commend your continued commitment. The
[00:05:53.440] future of humanity is one which we
[00:05:55.120] either travel to the stars or aggress to
[00:05:56.880] the stone age with this technology.
[00:05:59.600] My career has been to deliver critical
[00:06:01.840] information to decision makers. Your
[00:06:04.319] role as elected by your representatives
[00:06:07.440] is to act on it. The time to act is now.
[00:06:10.960] Thank you.
[00:06:22.780] [Applause]
[00:06:31.520] Mr. Mr. Borland, thank you for your
[00:06:32.880] service to our country and we appreciate
[00:06:34.400] you and we're we are sorry about how
[00:06:36.479] you've been treated and we will make
[00:06:38.000] sure that we try to rectify that
[00:06:39.520] situation.
[00:06:40.319] >> Thank you, ma'am.
[00:06:40.960] >> Uh Mr. Spielberger, please your opening
[00:06:43.199] remark. Uh Mr. Borland, in your
[00:06:44.880] testimony, you describe witnessing large
[00:06:46.560] triangular craft while stationed at
[00:06:47.919] Langley Air Force Base in 2012. Can you
[00:06:51.039] explain what you observed in terms of
[00:06:52.639] size behavior and why you're confident
[00:06:54.400] it was not conventional technology?
[00:06:56.720] >> Great question, ma'am. Um, so on
[00:06:59.120] barracks on the base, I lived in the
[00:07:00.880] barracks. There was a little smoke pit
[00:07:02.639] outside. I was there uh on the telephone
[00:07:05.520] and looking across to the flight line
[00:07:08.160] and I see a white light pop up and stop
[00:07:10.720] about 100 ft in the air. I thought it
[00:07:12.880] was a weather balloon. I've seen tests
[00:07:14.720] from there before. Uh, weak night, you
[00:07:17.280] know, normal thing, not surprising. I uh
[00:07:20.720] actually finish my cigarette and I begin
[00:07:22.560] walking up towards the flight line.
[00:07:24.720] There is a track and because I was on
[00:07:27.039] three months of night work, I began I
[00:07:29.599] would walk the track at night when we
[00:07:30.960] were weathered down and as I began
[00:07:33.199] walking towards the light towards the
[00:07:35.440] flight line in the track, the light then
[00:07:37.919] flies across the base across the flight
[00:07:39.919] line and as it flies to me a triangle
[00:07:43.360] manifests around the light. I can't tell
[00:07:45.599] you if it's active camouflage. I can't
[00:07:47.520] tell you if it appeared around the
[00:07:48.960] light, but I can tell you that it was a
[00:07:51.599] white light and then it was a triangle.
[00:07:53.919] It stopped about a 100 feet in front of
[00:07:55.680] me and approximately 100 feet above me.
[00:07:58.080] My te telephone got extremely hot,
[00:08:00.240] completely froze, dead. Um, I remember
[00:08:04.240] how thick it was. It was between one to
[00:08:06.560] two stories thick, equilateral triangle.
[00:08:08.960] I could never see the top of it. And the
[00:08:10.879] edges were 90° 90 degrees.
[00:08:15.039] There were four lights in total. uh one
[00:08:18.160] light on each corner and a larger light
[00:08:20.479] in the center, two to three times the
[00:08:22.319] size of the corner lights. But what was
[00:08:24.879] really odd was the outside, the best way
[00:08:28.319] to describe it is like looking at a
[00:08:30.479] James Webb telescope picture where you
[00:08:33.120] have the colors and then the black
[00:08:34.640] background. So, the craft itself was
[00:08:37.680] this black metallic flake paint, but on
[00:08:40.320] top of the craft was this gold, lava,
[00:08:44.240] plasma, some type of fluid going over
[00:08:47.200] and around the craft. I'm under this for
[00:08:49.920] about two to three minutes. Um, and then
[00:08:52.160] the center light flashes two to three
[00:08:54.160] times, no sound, immediately shoots up
[00:08:57.279] to commercial jet level, minimum, in my
[00:08:59.600] opinion. Um, and I immediately feel
[00:09:02.399] static electricity all over my body. And
[00:09:04.399] then I smell the smell of after a
[00:09:06.640] thunderstorm or lightning storm that
[00:09:08.640] that really strong summer thunderstorm
[00:09:11.200] smell gets up to flight level. Um I'm
[00:09:14.160] trying to get my phone reset and I can
[00:09:17.040] only see the center light at this point.
[00:09:18.959] If I didn't actually see it take off, I
[00:09:20.640] would have thought it was a star. Um and
[00:09:23.279] then it hovers up there and it begins to
[00:09:26.080] slowly move due east out over the
[00:09:27.839] Atlantic Ocean. I finally got my phone
[00:09:29.839] reset. The entire thing was about from
[00:09:32.000] the time I saw the light pop up near the
[00:09:33.839] hanger until it took off out over the
[00:09:36.160] ocean was about 15 minutes.
[00:09:39.120] >> Um, in following up to that question,
[00:09:40.800] after you disclose this information to
[00:09:42.399] the intelligence community, Inspector
[00:09:43.920] General, you're subject to fishing
[00:09:45.839] attempts and job blacklisting, how
[00:09:48.080] widespread do you think this is across
[00:09:50.080] the intelligence community for those who
[00:09:51.440] raise concerns regarding UAP programs?
[00:09:54.000] >> Uh, it's a difficult question to answer.
[00:09:56.080] I think prior to David Grush and people
[00:09:58.959] beginning this process of bringing
[00:10:00.880] people into awareness of the reality of
[00:10:03.680] these programs and certain things people
[00:10:06.399] have witnessed uh probably extremely
[00:10:08.480] widespread. I think today there's still
[00:10:12.480] an issue but because people are able to
[00:10:14.720] come before you and people are speaking
[00:10:16.399] out I think it has been
[00:10:19.760] somewhat less. I would hope though that
[00:10:22.880] people would because if this goes back
[00:10:24.959] into closed doors, this is going to get
[00:10:27.120] really ugly.
[00:10:28.320] >> What type of behavior have you witnessed
[00:10:30.000] from former AROW director Sean
[00:10:31.839] Kilpatrick as well as his staff in
[00:10:33.760] relate to this information you provided
[00:10:35.360] to them? Um, did they ever try to
[00:10:37.040] classify this information as non-human
[00:10:39.120] technology?
[00:10:40.800] >> Uh, good question. The problem with this
[00:10:43.040] is is that I know what I experienced
[00:10:45.600] firsthand and I know other things. Um, I
[00:10:48.800] think the staff at Arrow that I met with
[00:10:50.720] in March of 2023, I think they were good
[00:10:53.600] people doing the job they were told to
[00:10:55.279] do.
[00:10:56.880] I did not meet with Kirk Patrick. Um, he
[00:10:59.519] was either not present or did not want
[00:11:01.200] to meet me that day. Um, however, they
[00:11:03.680] did classify information about the
[00:11:07.120] reality of this subject. Um, and
[00:11:12.480] it was very concerning because in my
[00:11:14.640] AROM MFR, they had actually referenced a
[00:11:17.519] former staff member uh that was the one
[00:11:20.399] who told me to go there and they uh
[00:11:22.959] probably shouldn't have done that.
[00:11:24.480] >> And u real quick before my time is up
[00:11:26.240] and we might go to second round of
[00:11:27.519] question just so you're all aware um how
[00:11:29.440] important given everything that you've
[00:11:30.880] seen and experienced is the UAP
[00:11:32.640] Disclosure Act of 2025 in restoring both
[00:11:35.120] public accountability and trust. I think
[00:11:38.000] very important. Um I would hope though
[00:11:40.240] that the seven-year window could be
[00:11:42.720] shrunk, my opinion, but very important.
[00:11:45.440] The the truth needs to be known.
[00:11:48.240] >> Thank you very much. I now recognize
[00:11:50.800] Jared Moscowitz of Florida.
[00:11:53.040] >> Mr. Borland, when when you first
[00:11:55.360] experienced what you were looking at um
[00:11:59.519] and you what did you do next? Like what
[00:12:02.000] was your next step after it had passed
[00:12:05.839] and you were done?
[00:12:07.519] Uh, I actually kind of laughed to myself
[00:12:09.600] and said, "Okay, so this exists as
[00:12:11.360] well." Um, worked in enough programs,
[00:12:13.760] been exposed to enough that I was like,
[00:12:15.200] "Okay, so this is a real thing." Um, I
[00:12:18.480] went back, walked the track, talked with
[00:12:20.880] a couple of my friends about it. Um, I
[00:12:22.880] did talk with some of my co-workers. One
[00:12:25.120] in particular, which I thought was a
[00:12:26.959] joke, and it definitely wasn't, was
[00:12:28.959] like, "You probably should never say
[00:12:30.320] this to anybody." Uh, and then what
[00:12:32.880] happened to me happened. So,
[00:12:36.959] Uh, what about you, Mr. Uh, how do you
[00:12:40.000] pronounce your last name?
[00:12:41.839] >> Uh, Mr. Borland, I'd like to start with
[00:12:43.920] you and ask a few questions. Um, were
[00:12:46.480] there any other witnesses when you saw
[00:12:48.000] the equilateral triangle? Were there
[00:12:49.519] other witnesses that saw the same thing?
[00:12:51.279] >> Not to my knowledge, ma'am. Um, at that
[00:12:53.120] point, the only people that would be
[00:12:54.320] awake is us, those of us that were doing
[00:12:56.480] operations for the GWAT and then
[00:12:58.320] security forces. So, not to my
[00:12:59.839] knowledge. Um, and do you think that in
[00:13:02.320] your opinion that the equilateral
[00:13:04.320] triangle was the US government's
[00:13:07.200] technology?
[00:13:10.160] >> I did once upon a time, but knowing what
[00:13:12.720] I know now, um, I'll have to answer that
[00:13:15.360] question in a skiff probably.
[00:13:16.720] >> I was Well, my next question is you you
[00:13:18.560] teased us. So, knowing what you know now
[00:13:20.079] means what?
[00:13:22.480] >> I know enough to know that if you want
[00:13:24.160] an answer to that question, go to Arrow.
[00:13:27.040] >> They have they have the answer.
[00:13:28.079] >> Do you think it was a foreign
[00:13:28.959] government?
[00:13:30.480] I do not know.
[00:13:32.800] >> And Arrow is supposed to be disclosing.
[00:13:34.880] The last time I was in a skiff with
[00:13:36.079] Arrow, they said they were going to be
[00:13:37.600] doing disclosures.
[00:13:39.760] Uh, had they been doing much of that?
[00:13:42.720] >> I don't have an answer to you for you.
[00:13:44.560] Um, I'm I don't know. I know what Arrow
[00:13:46.880] reports publicly and I know what I've
[00:13:48.320] been through.
[00:13:49.040] >> Yeah. Um, and some of this stuff can be,
[00:13:52.399] I think, uh, debunked, right? There are
[00:13:54.959] sometimes there are weather balloons
[00:13:56.079] that look kind of a little funky or
[00:13:57.600] drones or whatever depending on the
[00:13:59.440] angle, direction, speed, etc. Um, are
[00:14:02.959] you scared for your safety?
[00:14:04.959] >> Um,
[00:14:07.279] that's a complicated question. Uh, so
[00:14:09.680] being here today, um, if I say the wrong
[00:14:12.079] word, technically I can be charged with
[00:14:13.519] espionage. Espionage is a death penalty.
[00:14:16.000] Whistleblowers have faced it. John
[00:14:17.839] Keryaku for example. I am not scared for
[00:14:21.279] my physical safety in the sense of a
[00:14:24.560] agency or company coming to kill me, but
[00:14:27.760] uh I have no job. My career is has been
[00:14:31.120] tarnished. You know, I'm unemployed
[00:14:33.279] living off of unemployment for the next
[00:14:34.800] 3 4 weeks until that's gone. So, it's a
[00:14:38.560] complicated question.
[00:14:39.760] >> Have there been stories leaked about
[00:14:41.199] your life to try to discredit you and
[00:14:42.720] the public? I
[00:14:44.639] >> I as of now I don't know up until
[00:14:47.440] >> you know they did that to Mr. Gush.
[00:14:48.880] >> I am aware. Yes, ma'am.
[00:14:50.240] >> They leaked his medical private medical
[00:14:52.000] information. Horrific things.
[00:14:53.600] >> It It is.
[00:14:54.480] >> Um Okay. You said in your testimony
[00:14:57.279] earlier with the chairwoman, you know,
[00:14:59.760] other things. Um I guess it has to be
[00:15:03.360] mentioned in a skiff.
[00:15:04.720] >> It would
[00:15:05.519] >> other things.
[00:15:06.240] >> It would pending I'm even legally
[00:15:08.160] allowed to speak on and the people in
[00:15:09.600] the room are even legally allowed to
[00:15:10.959] hear it. Um,
[00:15:12.000] >> and and is that would we need to know
[00:15:13.760] like the the compartmentalized word like
[00:15:16.800] what the code word is or the name of the
[00:15:18.399] program, the special access program in
[00:15:20.320] order to even hear it. You have to know
[00:15:21.519] the word, right?
[00:15:23.040] >> I I would suggest
[00:15:23.680] >> the name of it, right?
[00:15:24.560] >> I would suggest that to be asked to uh
[00:15:26.639] DNI Dabard um and work with her for that
[00:15:29.519] because I can't give you the answer on
[00:15:31.680] what is a requirement.
[00:15:32.880] >> This is what the US government does,
[00:15:34.000] right? They compartmentalize the
[00:15:35.199] information. Certain people know the the
[00:15:37.279] name of the program and if you don't
[00:15:39.040] know it, you can't get the information.
[00:15:40.320] And if you don't have the name, you
[00:15:41.199] don't know what to ask for. Even when
[00:15:42.880] we're reviewing the budget, we go into a
[00:15:44.320] skiff. We look at DoD budget and the the
[00:15:46.480] budget of like blackbox programs and we
[00:15:48.560] don't know what we're looking at because
[00:15:49.759] we don't know what these programs are.
[00:15:51.519] Is it a way for the government to hide
[00:15:53.279] from Congress what's really going on,
[00:15:55.920] where the money is going?
[00:15:56.800] >> In my opinion, absolutely. Yes.
[00:15:59.120] Um, you mentioned too in your testimony
[00:16:01.680] earlier that uh, quote, you went to
[00:16:04.079] speak with the government and they said
[00:16:06.320] they said somebody's name, a colleague's
[00:16:07.759] name, and you said they shouldn't have
[00:16:08.959] mentioned that staff person's name. What
[00:16:11.040] What does that mean?
[00:16:12.240] >> Uh, a Senate staffer who is the one who
[00:16:14.399] helped me get to Arrow, uh, recommended
[00:16:16.240] me I go there, gave me the email and the
[00:16:18.079] phone number because I could not find
[00:16:19.519] that information at all at the time. Um,
[00:16:21.600] in fact, I believe you guys have talked
[00:16:23.120] about how Arrow didn't even have a
[00:16:24.480] website for quite a period of time. We
[00:16:26.399] were told they were going to do
[00:16:27.120] disclosures both what they've debunked
[00:16:28.720] because some of it can be debunked and
[00:16:30.160] then what they haven't been able to
[00:16:31.680] debunk and to my knowledge you know it
[00:16:33.680] hasn't been a thing. I I only have one
[00:16:36.000] minute left so Mr. Nap we were
[00:16:37.279] definitely going to you telly Dr.
[00:16:38.800] Borland um as a geospatial uh
[00:16:41.680] intelligence officer have you seen
[00:16:43.839] classified data indicating UAPs operate
[00:16:46.639] in restricted US airspace and has that
[00:16:50.079] information been withheld from Congress?
[00:16:53.680] I have not in US airspace. Um that is uh
[00:16:56.959] intelligence oversight. So I did not
[00:16:58.720] have domestic authorities.
[00:17:00.880] >> Um after filing your inspector general
[00:17:03.199] complaint over retaliation inside the
[00:17:05.199] Pentagon's UAP office, did you receive
[00:17:08.000] any kind of protection or just more
[00:17:10.880] retaliation
[00:17:12.000] >> within the IG or the or ma'am?
[00:17:14.400] >> Uh either
[00:17:15.520] >> uh Arrow they went after the staff
[00:17:18.319] member um and classified everything.
[00:17:21.039] shut that down. The IG to this day, I
[00:17:24.000] don't even know if my complaints active.
[00:17:25.679] I know my attorney that represented me
[00:17:27.520] was very, very, very concerned and the
[00:17:30.880] best of my understanding, I was
[00:17:32.400] determined credible, not urgent.
[00:17:34.880] >> And and do you do you think that that
[00:17:36.640] experience would suggest that the
[00:17:38.720] internal UAP investigations um may may
[00:17:41.760] be compromised?
[00:17:45.600] >> Possibly. I mean, it's so hard because
[00:17:47.919] this goes back to people doing the job
[00:17:49.600] they're to told to do. And very few
[00:17:51.760] people are going to want to give up
[00:17:52.880] their careers, 20, 30 year pension, give
[00:17:55.360] up get rid of their kids' healthcare,
[00:17:57.039] get rid of their house. It's
[00:18:00.559] it's possible. Yes.
[00:18:01.919] >> Yes. Thank you very much, Dr. Borland.
[00:18:04.000] Um, Mr. Spielberger,
[00:18:05.440] >> Lesie, Mr. Orland. Um,
[00:18:09.039] in the in the classified realm, have you
[00:18:11.760] been exposed to undeniable confirmation
[00:18:14.000] of NHI technology? And then my second
[00:18:16.880] question is, is base systems involved in
[00:18:19.280] any way with reverse engineering
[00:18:21.600] exploitation of non-human intelligence
[00:18:23.600] craft?
[00:18:25.600] >> Yeah, we're going to have to we're going
[00:18:27.039] to have to have a conversation this for
[00:18:28.799] that. Whether I'm legally even allowed
[00:18:30.480] to answer that and whether you're even
[00:18:32.320] allowed to hear it, sir.
[00:18:34.240] >> Okay. Again, you can you can sense our
[00:18:37.120] frustration. And so, I just want to
[00:18:39.360] thank you for coming forward. We will
[00:18:41.280] continue to fight because look, this is
[00:18:43.200] about making sure that this government
[00:18:44.640] belongs to the people and restoring the
[00:18:47.280] republic the way it was intended to be.
[00:18:49.600] Um, I'd like to start with asking the
[00:18:53.280] witnesses, Mr. Nusatelli, you were in
[00:18:55.679] the Air Force, right?
[00:18:57.679] >> Yes.
[00:18:58.480] >> Did you believe in UFOs prior to your
[00:19:00.320] encounter?
[00:19:01.360] >> Um, I've always been interested.
[00:19:03.520] >> Okay. Chief Wiggins, you're in the
[00:19:06.000] currently in the Navy. Is that correct?
[00:19:07.840] >> Correct.
[00:19:08.400] >> Did you believe in UFOs before your
[00:19:10.240] encounter?
[00:19:11.679] >> I did. I'm from Las Vegas and I've
[00:19:13.679] watched George Knap my whole life.
[00:19:15.520] >> Okay. What about you, Mr. Borland?
[00:19:19.120] >> I have always been open to where facts
[00:19:22.240] go. So,
[00:19:24.160] >> were you guys scared or hesitant to come
[00:19:26.080] forward and tell your story because of
[00:19:28.720] fear and uh um believing that you might
[00:19:32.240] be reprimanded or ostracized from
[00:19:34.480] society because of your stories?
[00:19:38.240] >> Mr. Tully.
[00:19:39.280] >> Yes, absolutely. Uh, I probably would
[00:19:42.080] not have come forward if I didn't have
[00:19:44.160] documentation to prove some of my story
[00:19:46.960] and I also wouldn't have come forward
[00:19:48.320] without the people that paved the way
[00:19:50.400] for us in, you know, the first
[00:19:52.160] congressional hearing.
[00:19:53.679] >> Chief, what about you?
[00:19:57.039] >> Once I got the okay from the Navy from
[00:20:00.320] top down, that gave me a level of
[00:20:02.320] relief. Uh prior to that I didn't have
[00:20:04.880] uh any thought uh left or right of that
[00:20:07.440] but uh thank the the Navy to give me the
[00:20:10.400] go-ahad and that gave me the relief that
[00:20:12.480] I would not have any level of reprisal
[00:20:14.160] or anything happened to me.
[00:20:15.919] >> Mr. Borland, how about you?
[00:20:17.760] >> Um absolutely. I mean after I went
[00:20:19.840] through everything, it was pretty clear
[00:20:21.600] that uh I caused a major issue in the
[00:20:24.480] executive branch. So I did what I was
[00:20:26.960] supposed to do. Um and that's why I
[00:20:29.280] haven't spoken public publicly. That's
[00:20:31.200] why I'm happy to be here. This is how I
[00:20:33.120] wanted this to be done in regards to me.
[00:20:36.240] >> Mr. Borland, why do you think that you
[00:20:38.240] faced reprimand and discipline for your
[00:20:42.880] uh effort to come forward and be
[00:20:44.559] transparent about what you saw?
[00:20:46.799] >> Um about what I saw is the reason why I
[00:20:50.320] got into what I know and has been
[00:20:52.960] disclosed to Arrow and the IG and I
[00:20:55.840] think that information well it was it
[00:20:58.320] was labeled an extremely sensitive
[00:20:59.840] national security issue.
[00:21:02.240] Thank you,
[00:21:03.120] >> Mr. Borland. Um, when you engaged with
[00:21:05.280] Arrow in 2023, you noted that their
[00:21:07.360] public statements did not match the
[00:21:09.520] reality that you and others had
[00:21:12.000] witnessed. In your assessment, what were
[00:21:14.400] the key limitations of Arrow?
[00:21:17.919] >> You know, I would put it to you this
[00:21:19.280] way. The statement Arrow has made is
[00:21:22.080] scientific evidence of
[00:21:23.120] extraterrestrials. Scientific evidence
[00:21:25.280] requires a scientific control.
[00:21:27.039] Extraterrestrial is an entity on another
[00:21:29.600] planet. The only way to scientifically
[00:21:32.559] prove extraterrestrial is we have to go
[00:21:35.039] to that planet, acquire technology,
[00:21:37.200] bring it back, and compare it to what we
[00:21:38.960] have here.
[00:21:39.520] >> So, you're saying they won't let
[00:21:41.039] anything out because or they won't they
[00:21:44.000] won't come forward unless they confirm
[00:21:45.919] that it it unless they go to the planet
[00:21:48.159] and confirm where its origin is.
[00:21:50.000] >> That that would be scientific evidence.
[00:21:52.159] Yes. And by that statement, Arrow found
[00:21:54.799] no scientific evidence of
[00:21:56.000] extraterrestrials is basically I don't
[00:21:58.960] want to call it a scop, but a
[00:22:00.240] misrepresentation because we do have
[00:22:02.240] things. But making that statement is not
[00:22:05.039] technically a lie. It's a
[00:22:06.320] misrepresentation of the full truth.
[00:22:09.280] >> Thank you,
[00:22:10.640] >> Madam Chair. May I just since we're on
[00:22:12.480] that topic real quick, um h how do we
[00:22:15.120] get to these other planets? How do we
[00:22:16.559] pass the Van Allen radiation belt
[00:22:18.240] safely?
[00:22:21.520] Um, good question for you. I I cannot
[00:22:24.640] answer that for you.
[00:22:25.760] >> Thank you.
[00:22:27.120] >> I would now like to uh recognize Mr.
[00:22:29.280] Perry for five minutes. I
[00:22:30.960] >> think I'll start with uh maybe Mr.
[00:22:33.120] Borland. So, you have a clearance,
[00:22:35.679] right? You're in uniform. You have a
[00:22:37.360] clearance. When did you leave at
[00:22:38.880] service? What year?
[00:22:40.240] >> I left in uh 2013. February
[00:22:42.320] >> 2013. Who was the president if you
[00:22:43.919] recall?
[00:22:44.720] >> 2013 would have been President Obama,
[00:22:46.559] sir.
[00:22:46.880] >> Wasn't President Trump, right?
[00:22:48.159] >> No, sir.
[00:22:48.720] >> Okay. So, you have a clearance, right?
[00:22:50.559] You're serving in uniform. You have a
[00:22:51.840] clearance. Your story,
[00:22:53.919] >> uh, you know, I think many of us are
[00:22:55.280] kind of picturing the scene. You walk
[00:22:56.559] out in the flight line having a smoke,
[00:22:58.720] this event occurs.
[00:23:01.039] Do you have the perception, at least I
[00:23:03.679] do, based on your story,
[00:23:07.039] that this involves the US government?
[00:23:10.000] Whatever you saw involves the US
[00:23:12.159] government.
[00:23:13.440] >> That is 100% my opinion then and now.
[00:23:17.840] And was there an afteraction? Was do you
[00:23:20.880] do a daily debrief of the activities of
[00:23:24.080] the day? Was any of that recorded? Was
[00:23:26.320] there a conversation with the command?
[00:23:28.320] Was there any documentation that you
[00:23:30.720] know of at the time?
[00:23:31.919] >> Not to my knowledge. I mean, like I
[00:23:33.360] said, I talked about it in uh on the ops
[00:23:35.600] floor and a couple of people had pulled
[00:23:36.960] me aside, some older enlisted, and were
[00:23:38.960] like, "You probably want to keep that to
[00:23:40.240] yourself."
[00:23:42.240] So, did you get the did you get the
[00:23:44.159] impression that they knew what you were
[00:23:46.640] talking about, just didn't want you to
[00:23:48.640] harm your career or seem crazy or that
[00:23:51.440] they didn't really witness? Did you know
[00:23:53.840] anybody else that witnessed what you
[00:23:55.360] saw?
[00:23:56.080] >> Again, not that night. Like I said, the
[00:23:57.679] only people that would have been out
[00:23:58.559] there would have been security forces
[00:23:59.919] and then those of us that were doing
[00:24:01.600] >> security forces in uniform or contract?
[00:24:04.559] >> Probably both.
[00:24:05.919] >> Did you talk to them? Did anybody talk
[00:24:07.520] to them in an afteraction? Not to my
[00:24:09.760] knowledge, sir.
[00:24:10.240] >> Is there any interest in the command to
[00:24:12.080] determine and verify what you saw?
[00:24:15.440] >> Not to my knowledge, sir.
[00:24:17.039] >> It's unfortunate, Chief Wiggins.
[00:24:19.679] >> But when you look back through the
[00:24:21.919] hearing and the evidence that's been
[00:24:23.919] presented, if you're going to point the
[00:24:25.840] American people to one piece of evidence
[00:24:28.640] to start their journey on this topic,
[00:24:31.600] what would you suggest, sir? Mr. Berlin,
[00:24:34.000] then you, sir, really quickly. Yeah, to
[00:24:36.640] be honest with you, I think Bob Lazar
[00:24:38.320] and not for the reasons that most would
[00:24:41.360] talk about mainly because Bob Lazar was
[00:24:43.919] immediately discredited. They said he
[00:24:45.679] never worked where he worked. They said
[00:24:46.880] he never did what he did. But yet Bob
[00:24:48.640] Lazar showed up with a bunch of friends
[00:24:50.640] in a video camera and was filming these
[00:24:52.640] test flights in the middle of the
[00:24:53.840] desert. So clearly he knew something.
[00:24:58.480] >> Madam Chairman, if I'm out of time, I
[00:24:59.840] yield back.
[00:25:00.320] >> Thank you.
[00:25:00.640] >> Mr. Borland, um you've talked about
[00:25:03.120] manipulation of your security clearance
[00:25:04.640] records. Can you identify which agencies
[00:25:06.400] or offices were responsible and whether
[00:25:08.080] they provided any written justification?
[00:25:10.480] >> I can do that in a skiff sir 100%. Um
[00:25:13.360] because of being a part of a multi-
[00:25:15.520] agency special access program I cannot
[00:25:17.600] give those publicly.
[00:25:19.440] >> So I had encourage us madam chair to
[00:25:21.039] have that skiff that skiff meeting if we
[00:25:23.360] can and then uh Mr. Borland again for
[00:25:26.080] you. You testified that you withheld
[00:25:27.760] certain sources and methods from arrow
[00:25:29.440] due to mistrust. Can you give us some
[00:25:32.400] specifics uh that led you to believe
[00:25:34.559] they were misrepresenting the truth?
[00:25:36.640] >> Well, as I said already, um what I said
[00:25:39.520] about scientific method, scientific
[00:25:41.360] control, uh extraterrestrials, I mean, I
[00:25:43.840] know what I've seen. I know what I know,
[00:25:45.760] and I know it's true. So any agency
[00:25:48.799] that's going to go public and try and
[00:25:52.320] manipulate the public perception of this
[00:25:54.960] subject in such a way that is negative
[00:25:57.120] when I know the truth about it is why I
[00:26:01.279] had extreme reservations with it and
[00:26:03.279] also what I've been through and other
[00:26:05.039] whistleblowers and people in the know
[00:26:07.360] about this subject have been through.
[00:26:09.039] >> So Madam Chair, thank you for letting me
[00:26:10.480] wave on. I think the key thing there you
[00:26:12.559] talked about was manipulation of
[00:26:15.279] message, manipulation of narrative. That
[00:26:18.640] is really the problem with this entire
[00:26:22.559] uh uh the system that we've seen since
[00:26:26.000] you've you've started this these
[00:26:27.600] wonderful hearings, Madam Chair, and I
[00:26:29.039] thank you so much.
[00:26:30.000] >> Thank you, Governor.
[00:26:30.559] >> Thank you, Madam Chair. Um first
[00:26:32.480] question, Mr. Borland. Uh earlier today
[00:26:34.559] you mentioned uh that under in a skiff
[00:26:37.440] you would be able to uh discuss whether
[00:26:39.919] a member of Congress is actually legally
[00:26:41.840] able to access certain information.
[00:26:44.400] Under what authority would a member of
[00:26:46.159] Congress be restricted from accessing
[00:26:48.320] information on this topic even within a
[00:26:50.320] skiff?
[00:26:51.039] >> I would suggest uh reaching out to
[00:26:52.960] Director Gabard and speaking with her
[00:26:55.360] about that. Um I'm hopeful that this
[00:26:58.000] goes back to the executive branch and
[00:26:59.440] who even has authority. Unfortunately, I
[00:27:01.919] can't give you a 100% solid answer
[00:27:04.240] because I don't even have that
[00:27:05.840] knowledge.
[00:27:07.039] >> Next question, and this one's open to
[00:27:08.640] anyone who'd like to answer it. Uh,
[00:27:11.200] describe your understanding of the org
[00:27:13.120] chart or lines of control within the
[00:27:14.799] executive branch with respect to these
[00:27:16.480] topics.
[00:27:19.810] [Music]
[00:27:22.320] And if you'd like to address that in a
[00:27:23.919] skiff, feel free to say so.
[00:27:26.559] That could work as long as I'm legally
[00:27:28.000] allowed to and you are legally allowed
[00:27:29.840] to receive it.
[00:27:34.480] >> Okay. While this is still rolling, Mr.
[00:27:36.640] Nusatelli, real quick, yes or no
[00:27:38.240] answers. Are you aware of anything in
[00:27:40.480] the government uh United States
[00:27:42.320] government arsenal that can split a
[00:27:43.919] hellfire missile like this?
[00:27:45.440] >> No.
[00:27:46.000] >> And do whatever blob thing it did and
[00:27:48.000] then keep going? Nothing.
[00:27:49.120] >> Nothing.
[00:27:49.520] >> All right. How about you, Chief Wigan?
[00:27:50.880] Wiggins?
[00:27:52.240] >> Nothing to my knowledge, ma'am.
[00:27:53.600] >> Okay. And how about you, Mr. Borland,
[00:27:56.000] >> I prefer to answer that in a skiff.
[00:27:59.039] >> Okay. Um, does this video scare you
[00:28:02.320] guys?
[00:28:04.159] >> Yes or no?
[00:28:05.520] >> Yes.
[00:28:06.480] >> Wiggins?
[00:28:07.120] >> Yes.
[00:28:08.000] >> Nat,
[00:28:09.679] >> uh, I had a different reaction. I I I
[00:28:11.840] was really happy that it got out. Thanks
[00:28:13.760] for providing that.
[00:28:14.480] >> Curiosity. All right, Mr. Morland.
[00:28:18.640] >> Yes. For
[00:28:20.000] >> Okay. All right. Um, that that is the
[00:28:22.880] end of my questioning. I'd like to now
[00:28:24.399] recognize Mr. Crane.
[00:28:25.919] >> Um, knowing you testified to Arrow, are
[00:28:29.840] they obiscating when they claim to have
[00:28:32.320] discovered no evidence of
[00:28:33.760] extraterrestrial beings, activity, or
[00:28:36.240] technology? And are they lying to the
[00:28:37.679] American public?
[00:28:39.919] >> As I said before, it's it's a
[00:28:41.520] manipulation of the public perception.
[00:28:43.679] The statement, scientific evidence of
[00:28:46.240] extraterrestrials is a true statement.
[00:28:48.960] It is not the truth about what is
[00:28:51.200] happening and what we have.
[00:28:54.320] >> Would any of y'all like to comment on
[00:28:55.600] that further? Mr.