Jesse Michels — “I Retrieved a UFO With My Helicopter!” (Jake Barber), Jan 30 2025

Speaker: Jake Barber, long-form interview with Jesse Michels (American Alchemy). ~3h04m.
YouTube: https://youtu.be/dnnpyNuPdXs (2025-01-30)
Captured: 2026-05-29 via yt-dlp audio → Whisper.
Primary for barber-noc-retrieval-claims. The fullest Barber account: his helicopter-pilot sling-load (external-load) retrieval of a “giant white egg” craft (he wasn’t briefed on an egg; a ground team wrapped nets around it); a parallel “summoning” (psionic) team present that night (corroborates the Skywatcher dual-method structure); his helicopter-operating-company / Red-Team / DOD-DOI-State-contract background (Director of Operations; Gracie Jiu-Jitsu NorCal program director; flight instructor); EMP/gamma-exposure framing; and a notable NEW extraordinary claim — “167 people were killed in that incident” (ICBM security/radar personnel; references Robert Hastings).
NOTE: Whisper auto-transcript (3h); verify quotes against audio before load-bearing citation.

For thousands of years, people have been seeing objects in the sky that they can’t identify. And today, we have somebody who has actually retrieved a UFO first-hand. A first-hand witness. The energy is just really good. It’s perfect. How are you, dude? Not a lot of sleep for either of us. You guys didn’t sleep? I didn’t sleep at all. Why? I’m just pumped. We have five people standing behind cameras right now, and nobody knows why we’re here. You didn’t tell them? No. You didn’t tell them? No. Bro. Okay, everybody. Can we have everybody here? I just want to let everybody know what we’re here for. To start with, just thank you everybody who came in on a 36-hour notice. For the first time in all these years of doing interviews with UFO-related people, today we’re going to be talking to a first-hand witness. So it’s no longer the guy that talked to the guy. It is the guy himself. Part of why I’m valuable is because I’m at the fingertips of this thing, and everyone we people have heard from, on a highly administrative leadership, Exactly. information level. Exactly. This is super dangerous for him right now. Now we’re in a limbo because the story is supposed to break out on News Nation, hopefully this week, and every day that it doesn’t go live, there’s more danger in his life. So tell me about the moment when you realized that you were involved in a retrieval of non-human technology. I was trained as a pilot a long time ago, and the last 20 years I’ve served more as a pilot than I have as a ground crew member or in any other capacity. Good morning. Jake, have you retrieved a non-human craft? Yes, I have. For everyone that’s getting exposed to this right now, humble yourself from the perspective of what you consider believable. Can you describe the retrieval’s end-to-end? Yeah. What happens? Where are you? Yeah. I sit back at a separate location, I get GPS coordinates at the very last second, I get dispatched, I go there, and then en route from very short range out, maybe five minutes out, I get read a description of what it is I’m picking up. It’s so real when you look at it. It’s not like in the background you’re hearing, oh, and there’s this light, like this is an epic moment, where’s the crescendo? It’s like, no, there’s just flying a helicopter, come over a ridge, there’s an egg sitting there and dudes sitting around on the ground, flashing you, calling you in. It doesn’t register as exciting, you know, in that format. I don’t know, when I’m hearing the story, a big, giant, 20-foot egg, how do you know that’s non-human intelligence? Since we’ve left the program and reorganized and are now working with Arrow, I can make the egg show up, and we have, and we’ve demonstrated it post-program, and we did it in August. Oh, my goodness. It’s so real when you look at it. It’s like, no, there’s just flying a helicopter, come over a ridge, we’ve demonstrated it post-program, and we did it in August. Oh, my goodness. In broad daylight. At the moment we elicited the egg, the egg flies by in dead silence, moving at 10,000 miles per hour. Everyone likes to ask, why am I not afraid that someone’s going to try and silence me with death? There are people that have died who are coming out and who are speaking out on our activities. Anybody you know? Yes. Can you say anything more? No, because there’s an investigation happening right now. I’m not afraid of the boogeyman. I am the boogeyman. You don’t want to show up at my house and think you’re going to be successful with brute force, because that’s going to go south for you really quickly. It’s got this cold, military, political stigma attached to it, but that’s not it. It’s not about flying equipment. Like, can we get in a flying saucer and get to London in two minutes? Or could we get there yesterday, because now we know, like, screw all that. The real implications are way more powerful. It’s realizing that there is something else out there that’s maybe not extra at all. It’s something that’s part of us. It’s like outer space versus inner space is all the same. What’s up? What’s up? Boogeyman. For thousands of years, people have been seeing objects in the sky that they can’t identify. For maybe the last 80 years, we’ve been speculating as to American government, other governments’ involvement with UFOs. Today, we have somebody who has actually retrieved a UFO firsthand, a firsthand witness. We have this amazing crew, by the way. We have Amar present. We have Logan present. We’ve gotten to know you a little bit over the last month, but we don’t have a ton of context as to what exactly you experienced. We want to really get down to the basics and maybe just start with, who are you? Let’s bring it all the way back to your childhood. First thing I should say is, looking back to me, it’s clear that the intelligence community looks for kids like me. I had what you could probably call the four I’s, let’s say. Imagination, intellect, intuition, and instincts. My grandfathers were the best men you could ever imagine. We could call them Navy Grandpa and Army Grandpa. Let’s do that. Navy Grandpa was a very influential naval officer. He was actually a member of the Navy SEALs predecessors, the Scouts and Raiders. He and my other grandfather, Army Grandpa, they laid the foundation to our family. Literally put the cornerstone in, had their pictures taken in the 50s, laying the cornerstone to our family church. Up until the point my parents divorced, I had a pretty good childhood, but when stepfamilies entered the picture, when things became hell for me. How did they become hell? The environment in the stepfamily at my mom’s house, which is where I spent most of my time, was abusive. Physically abusive. Specifically because of your stepfather. Stepfather and stepbrother. His son, who is much older than me. What sort of abuse? Really, all three, if there are three. Physically, verbally, and low-key sexually abusive. Borderline sexually abusive, too. I chose to live outside, basically. By the time I got into high school, my Navy Grandpa had encouraged me to get into swimming and water polo. I had also continued to do art and music, and had entered a science contest, and won a state science fair based on a project I had done. What was the project? It was called Color Chords. In my music class, we had learned at a very rudimentary level this thing called the Circles of Fifths, which is basically a pie chart where you can break down and learn the intervals of harmonies. From any root note, there’s what’s called a perfect fifth, and that fifth rings a harmony, which is pleasant. There’s also a third, and in a major chord, you have a first, a third, and a fifth. In a minor chord, you have a first, a minor third, which is a half an interval down, but you keep that major fifth, and it makes what people refer to as a sad sound or a sad. But they’re both beautiful. It’s more of a happy beautiful than a deeper, dramatic beautiful. So the understanding of harmony in the sound world is when wavelengths overlap in a way that forms some form of geometry that is enhancing rather than degrading to the independent waveforms, you get something like harmony, and your ear can pick that up, and your emotions can react to it in a variety of ways. So I’m like, well, shoot, if photons make waveforms, are there color combinations that can have that same complementary interplay where when the colors combine that they’re pleasant? And could it be that they actually elicit the exact same emotions? It was really cool. I did well in our local area, and I went on to county, and then I went on to the state, and I got awarded with like 10 other kids, an award at the state level for that project. Well, you talk about trauma being a part of what the intelligence community was looking for. Yeah. Let’s get into the juicy stuff, which is the Air Force recruiting you. Yeah. How did they recruit you? How’d you get in touch? So when I got expelled my senior year, my grandfather pulled some strings and got me into another high school. My parents were involved in that process, but unbeknownst to my parents, I also had this secret intervention with my grandfathers. Both of them came together, and they began exploring military opportunities for me. They just saw that that’s what I needed, and for me, I was like, yeah, I want to jump out of airplanes and kill bad people. I’m all in. I want that job. I don’t want to do a desk job or cook. And so they set out, made phone calls, and looking back, I don’t think they had any idea what they were getting me into. I mean, I didn’t either. I don’t blame them. It’s not like they were complicit or part of some deep state and put their grandson up for offering to the program. It wasn’t like that. But I took some initial screening in our local area, and then we traveled down by UCLA, and I went through a series of tests over multiple visits, like all your basic stuff, I mean, physical stuff, physiological, but then went into psychological testing, creative testing. So I went down, and the first time I had ever taken an IQ test. So you take it two times, at least twice, but two different ways, I’ll say. The first time I took it, I think it was just a straight-up IQ test, and I remember knowing exactly what I got because I was so interested to find out, and it was like 138, and I was like, oh, that kind of sucks. Like, that’s not very high. It’s pretty high. I’m like, I’m supposed to be smarter than that. Hundreds average. But then they do the second thing, which is a stress IQ test. And so you take the same test, but I put on this oxygen mask that sealed my face with no air coming to it. Whoa. And I took that test, and I tested a 152. No way. You scored higher. I scored way higher under stress, and that’s when my concept for comfort and chaos began to form, and I was like, oh, like, I’m a different person. I’m like, see things more clearly. Like, I see the code or whatever. Like, under stress, it’s like things make more sense to me. Anybody watching this is probably thinking this is a very unique recruiting process for the military. This isn’t like going online, submitting an application. What did you end up getting recruited for? Yeah. So I ended up getting recruited to a brand new program that was called GTEP, which was a Guaranteed Training Education Program, I believe is what the acronym was at the time. And for me, this was a 10-year contract that would fast-track me through special operations training through the Department of the Air Force through a career field at the time called combat control. It’s still called combat control. And what’s interesting for people to probably know, which, moving forward, keep this in the back of your mind, is that the Air Force is this agency that’s straddled the blue-black line, let’s call it, since its inception in 1947. Like, two weeks after Roswell incident, you get the National Security Act, you get the formation of the Air Force, CIA at the same time, Department of Defense, and the Air Force has been that agency that’s straddled the blue-black line ever since. And just to be clear for the audience, the blue-black line, the blue is the kind of open-source white world, the out-in-the-open black world is, you know, highly cleared, sensitive stuff. Is that right? Yeah, I think the good way to think about it is the black world that we operate in is like a four-dimensional projection into a three-dimensional world. It has its presence here, and there’s indications of it, but you’re not going to get it because so much of what you’re seeing is tied and connected to other things through another dimension you’re not paying attention to. And that’s how this exists, that’s how we exist, and that’s how we manipulate reality and truth and get away with things that people don’t understand. That is unbelievable. You sound like Carl Sagan describing platonic solids. Yeah, I don’t mean to be. You’re describing an elite military unit. Yeah. What I need to make very clear is, although I was prospected into combat control, I became something very different, and that was simply my gateway into the program. So I signed a contract for combat control in 1994 and shipped off to basic training in Texas. After completing basic training at Lackland Air Force Base, Texas, I then was shipped out to a place called Operating Location Hotel, which we called OLH, and this was a selection for Air Force Special Warfare Combat Control Pararescue. And although I had been prescreened and signed this crazy 10-year contract that guaranteed this 17-year-old kid 2 1⁄2 years of specialized training, which, to understand how incredible that is, is traditionally, or I should say historically, for special warfare or special operations, like military-wide, you don’t get into those programs without first being enlisted and then earning your selection and being recommended for special units. And then even once you’re in those special units, what specialized schools you go to is not guaranteed, and it happens over a period of time. So after I graduated selection, which is the initial phase of weeding out candidates, it’s about a four-week course at OLH, we had a class of about 89 people, I remember, and nine of my original classmates graduated together from that class. And then we shipped off to what we call the pipeline, which is our trade schools where we learn our craft. Somewhere early on in the pipeline, I was approached by two individuals who convinced me that it would be a good idea if I became an airplane mechanic. And… Can you say anything more about those two individuals? One of them was clearly gay, which was interesting because I quite enjoyed the talk. I thought it was fun. And for some reason, I’ve always been really compatible with gay men, much to their disappointment because I’m very straight-as-an-arrow with my sexual orientation. So there’s that. I can share that. And they had sold me on the idea. They sold me on this idea. And ultimately, what it was, I knew I was doing something different and special. And you have to understand, in the 90s, the op tempo was really low. And everyone kind of knew you would go through your training, but a lot of guys, once they made it to their teams, were kind of like, dude, let’s go to war. And there was no war. And so a lot of people were getting out, tired of just training. And what was kind of sold to this young, crazy kid, Jacob Barber, was that you’re going to get to do things others aren’t going to get to do. There is a lot going on that we’d like to use you for, but you first have to go do this thing for us. And that is learning how to be an airplane mechanic. So I’m like, okay. I then shipped off to airplane mechanic school. Upon completing that, I reported directly to Pope Air Force Base in North Carolina. When I was there, I spent a lot of time turning wrenches on the flight line as a mechanic. But outside of that, I spent all my time training. Was that a hazing ritual, or would that come in handy with what you were ultimately going to do? What was a hazing ritual? Like just learning to become an airplane mechanic. No, it was my cover. Okay, got it. So my cover was working as an airplane mechanic. I came in during the Clinton era, and that’s no coincidence. That had a lot to do with this program and what I became, come to find out. And I spent a lot of time deploying on those type of missions in support of President Clinton. I can explain. I can go into detail there a little bit. I was involved in Bosnia. I deployed to Bosnia. I was involved in the liberation of Kuwait. I had a lot of combat time. But ultimately, what I was being refined for was a red teamer. I became a red team expert. Red team, you could think of, is an opposition force. In fact, that’s exactly what we call it, is OPFOR, opposition force. And a red team’s job in any scenario is to exploit all the weaknesses of blue team and find the vulnerabilities and then use those against blue team. So in an exercise, we would participate where the military’s blue forces or traditional forces would deploy their tactics, and then we would be set out to play the opponent or the enemy. And we’re given liberty, boundless liberty, on how to just go and fuck up their life. Like, try and make their life hell. You get to be creative. Think outside the box. Innovate ways and find holes in our systems. So we’d go out, and it was a lot of fun, and we’d find ways to completely disrupt the standard operating procedures of units. And then in exercises that were global and dealt very closely with other subject matter related to UAP, we’re involved with those and had to come up with innovative ways to be adversarial towards our own forces. And I found out that my four I’s that I explained earlier were tools of war. And anyone that’s read The Art of War, what’s the first rule in The Art of War? You know? Yeah, what is the first rule? Deception. Deception. Deception is the first rule in The Art of War, is to deceive and to always act like something you’re not. Now, I think about it, that’s probably alarming coming from me right now. I was just going to ask, how do we know you’re not? That guy is full of shit. Yeah, yeah, yeah. How do we know you’re not red teaming us right now? Well, you don’t. You don’t know that. You really don’t. That was an honest answer. Yeah, you don’t know that. And all I can do, I expect to get asked that a lot, is like, I’ll paraphrase a book from Matthew, I think it is. Like, you will know me by my fruits. And so, just pay attention to what’s happening. You can evaluate the impact of what I’m doing. Yeah. And that’s all you can do. Well, that’s an amazing message for the audience too, which is they should corroborate the things that you’re saying through their own open source research. Yeah. And if it validates and checks, they should think for themselves. Yeah. And not just, you know, take all of us for our word willy-nilly. No. You mentioned other things being sort of adjacent to UFO or UAP retrievals. What were the other things you were doing as part of this group? While enlisted, I did a lot of security and escort of HVTs, which are called high-value targets. So, I held a NATO top-secret security clearance at times when I needed to, and was manifested to classified flights where we would be dispatched, we would secure targets, and transport those targets and deliver them to other places and then hand them off to other teams. These targets, most of the time, were like sealed containers. We called them mystery boxes. I couldn’t tell you what was inside. It could be a variety of things. There was a variety of sizes. Something, you know, small enough that could fit on a helicopter, something large enough that it had to be put on a C-5 Galaxy. Sometimes it had to be trucked. Sometimes it had to be taken in pieces, but it was always put in these little mystery boxes. One thing that should be noted is that one of these missions I was involved in, I got very sick afterwards and lost every hair on my body. Skin peeled off my arms. I was nauseous, and it was obvious in hindsight that I was exposed, most likely, to some form of radiation. This really upsets some people when I tell this story, especially friends like Dr. Gary Nolan, who helps me with this issue now. Real quick, just for the audience, Gary Nolan is a Stanford microbiologist. He’s a Nobel nominee every year. He’s tenured there, and he’s incredibly interested in the UFO subject. In fact, he claims to have, and I’ve seen them, actually, crash retrieval parts from his friend, who’s a long-time godfather of UFO research, a guy named Jacques Vallee. Gary does mass spectrometry on them, but he also was approached by the CIA in, I think, 2016-ish around people who have encountered UAP, NHI, and the biological effects that they’ve incurred. Correct. That’s the nature of my relationship with Gary. Dr. Nolan. Yeah, I’m still suffering from that experience, most likely, and subsequent experiences, but it’s only now that I’m getting proper care because of how… I want to say this, because I don’t want to make the Air Force out to be this evil, irresponsible entity, because as much as they are, they also aren’t. In this one circumstance, I don’t believe they knew what we were dealing with. This is why I think that one incident, and looking back with 20-20 vision, hindsight, it’s likely that was also related to the UAP topic, because had we known what was in that box, we have a protocol for dealing with nuclear hazmat, and none of that was in place, and I still got exposed. So I think something in that box that… Were you carrying the box? No, it’s too heavy. It’s loaded on the craft. We escorted it. You escorted it. We escorted it, and we protected it with the authority to use deadly force. And it was emitting that much radiological energy. I think it got turned on at some point, which is another interesting thing. Like, how did it come on while we were in air? Like, it turned on or turned off, or there was some level of fallout. I really don’t know. What makes you think that it was a UAP or a UFO, and not an electromagnetic pulse, like some of these exotic weaponry that emit radiological energy? Yeah, well, EMPs are different. A lot of the HPMs are safe to be around. You’re not going to get high doses of gamma radiation by exposing yourself to an EMP, but I would just say, let’s not get too much into this night and this mission without getting into trouble, but I’ll just tell you that I don’t blame the Air Force or anyone for how that was handled, with the exception of the fact of seeking medical treatment afterwards. I couldn’t talk about what had happened, so therefore the causation was really difficult for doctors to come up with. There was symptomology without causation, and I was treated for things that weren’t necessarily consistent with radiation poisoning, and I healed up from it. What were all the symptoms that you experienced? I have a heart murmur that I never had before, so my heart’s messed up. Again, I lost all the hair on my body. I look like just a binal lizard. No pubic hair, no eyebrows, no nose hair, which I wish was still the case, but whatever. The one benefit. Yeah, the one benefit. No ear hair, no nose hair. I had rashes. My immune system seems compromised in some way. I can’t explain. I just have random autoimmune disorders, and so this is where Gary has come in handy, is that he’s reviewed my medical records, and we’re trying to make sense of 20 years of things that have happened and how more so, like forget the past, like moving forward. My concern is that there’s some hidden gremlin that’s going to show up later in life, and we’re going to be way behind on how to deal with cancer or whatever. I hate to throw that term around. Knock on wood, man. Yeah, so that incident, just to get back to the subject. Can I ask you one more question about what happened? When Gary took a look at your physical chart and the symptoms, did he say they accorded with other UFO experiencers? Yes, yeah. He did? Specifically, what’s the guy from Rendlesham Forest in 1980? John Burroughs. John Burroughs and Jim Penniston. John Burroughs, Jim Penniston. John Burroughs had similar symptoms that I did and had similar issues with his VA records as I did. So he also had scarring in his dorsal striatum. He had scarring in his caudate nucleus and patamen. Yeah. Did you have that as well? I still have to get my comprehensive MRIs. I haven’t had a brain MRI that’s revealed that. But I do know he had a heart issue. Yeah, we have the same heart issue. Oh, wow, yes. It didn’t exist before in either of us. That was the one thing that Gary shared. And it was similar situation with the records. And for context, for people, the Rendlesham Forest incident was, I think, 1980. Yeah. It was Suffolk, Royal Air Force, Mount Waters. And it was, you had Jim Penniston, Burroughs, all these guys who were, they saw this light in the forest. Yeah. Dude, that one incident this is, we were talking earlier about how things get lost over time. In this environment, how keyed up we are right now for proof, and there’s a lot of attention on this. If that incident, if Bentwaters happened today or tomorrow, case would be closed. Yeah. Like that single incident has all the proof and evidence that you need that this thing is real from a public perspective, from a first-hand witness, from a government response and cover-up, like it’s there. It’s a closed book. You have Lord Norton who is the head of the naval fleet for the entire UK saying that this, you know, was a thing, this happened. And it simply isn’t any good, ministers, and the Ministry of Defense in particular, saying that nothing that took place that December night in Suffolk is of defense interest. It simply isn’t true. And you had Colonel Charles Halt as well, doing an investigation afterwards, and everything checked. No, no guy shows up in plane, HVT escort team show up, haul everything away, people are sworn to secrecy, people are drugged during interrogation, post-interrogation of the, I mean… They’re given truth serum, they’re given sodium pentothal, so that they basically give like an extremely explicit readout of what actually occurred. And that itself didn’t take place in a vacuum. You have a great book called UFOs and Nukes by a guy named Robert Hastings. Yeah, Hastings, yeah. 167 people were killed in that incident. 167 ICBM security personnel, radar operators, guys that work at these nuclear bases across the United States, and in some cases they’re joint nuclear bases in the UK and other places, and they all experience these things, these orbs, disks, plasma balls, crazy sorts of things. In certain cases they claim to have boarded crafts. Yeah. If anybody, if anybody out there wants a good starting point, to take an on-ramp into this subject matter, I recommend going to the, what was called the Citizens’ Hearings in 2013. It’s on YouTube. Yep. It’s a full week of what’s essentially a mock congressional hearing where they brought in, there’s over 20 hours of testimony over five days. At that time, everyone from academia, government, military, enthusiasts, all those areas that have expertise and experiences documented, and they come and they testify in a very professional, formal setting before, I think, former and current congressional members, and they lay it all out. It’s the whole history, and Bentwater’s incident is covered in there. Something about that is irritating because it’s like, okay, where are all the whistleblowers? Let’s wait until they come out. Like, no. They’ve come out. They have come out. Take the time, if you want to form a vehement argument that’s anti- whatever this subject is, put in the work to go look. Like Ross’s book, In Plain Sight. There’s so much that’s already in plain sight that’s already happened. It’s in plain sight. Jake, have you retrieved a non-human craft? Yes, I have. Okay, let’s get into that. All right. What’s the story behind that? Man, so, here we go. So, after 9-11, I went back to California and I began going to work on the next chapter of my life, which is working as a contractor for the broader intelligence community. And so, everyone else after 9-11 was looking east with vengeance and the special operations community went crazy, which kind of served as like the perfect distraction for me and my work because nobody was looking domestically, nobody was looking out west, and we continued to do our work out here. And I quite literally took a left turn at Albuquerque to quote Bugs Bunny. I knew I should have taken that left turn at Albuquerque. And worked on, we had a cover contract through the BIA, which is the Bureau of Indian Affairs, at a sovereign nation close to White Sands Missile Range in New Mexico. And lest the audience be skeptical of this left turn into Indian reservations, there’s actually a long history of the American intelligence community’s activity on Indian reservations. You actually watch a really popular Netflix show right now called The Octopus Murders, which involves all sorts of activity with Wackenhut, private security contractor on Native American lands and it’s a somewhat common thing. Well, it’s a good place to go if, you know, there’s a lot of security and ambiguity there from a structure standpoint. And something important to understand is that the legitimacy is the best cover. This is something we say all the time. So, if I’m going to put my public face or my structured face or my three-dimensional identity out there, it’s got to be a legitimate work and I spend most of my time doing that. So, I specialize in security and transportation, mostly in aeronautical operations, even more specifically helicopters. I’m basically a helicopter operations expert and security expert. So, I stood up and got involved with helicopter operating companies and held many contracts with the DOD, Department of Interior, State Department, and other local agencies as well. And through that work, we basically, although the majority of our time was spent doing the day-to-day work and keeping that business up and going, our real purpose was to make ourselves available for the call, let’s say, or the calls that would come in. And we would be put to work on missions for the program. And because of my experience working as a Red Team member and already having the clearances and already having proved myself, I don’t know how to say it other than certain individuals were passing my business card around. And it’s a lot of work, maintaining aptitude and currency and a variety of skills and legitimate civilian licenses and things and credentials. What’s your title at this point? Do you have a title? Are you a full ghost? I’m a lot of things. I don’t know how to answer that. I mean, at this point, take a left turn to Albuquerque, dealing with the Department of Interior. What’s your job title? Director of Operations for a helicopter company. Wow. Yeah. Crazy. Yeah. Interesting. Yeah, so I’m Director of Operations for a helicopter company. I’m Program Director for Gracie Jiu-Jitsu NorCal. Wow. I’m a flight instructor for law enforcement, for Airborne Law Enforcement Agency. I hold a lot of titles. I’m also President of a corporation that has manufacturers wheelchair, patented wheelchair parts for the Veterans Hospital. I service fitness centers on a number of key military bases that if I named them, they’d make a lot of sense. So I’m a lot of different things. You’re like an Uber driver in LA, but way more badass. I think I’m more badass than an Uber driver at this point. Oh, there are some badass Uber drivers, I don’t know. The most insane multi-hype in it ever. So at this point, having all these different potential covers is what’s actually serving you in what you’re doing because you could be a flight instructor at this company or you could be just directing operations for some transportation. Can you say anything about the companies that you worked for in the context of these UFO crash retrievals? Look, man, if you took two guesses, you’d get both of them right on the first try. There you go. At the end of the day, I’m just a security and transportation guy, especially when it gets to the UAP subject. It’s like we did a lot of helicopter work and law enforcement and security work. It’s not like we understand the idea of a paramedic sitting over here in an ambulance waiting for a call who specializes in emergency medical response. We’re not sitting there as a crash recovery team with our little CR patch on our chest and our little alien-like dice hanging from the rearview mirror of the helicopter and we’re ready to roll when the alien phone rings. No. It’s like we’re doing other shit and we’re going to go out and we do a lot of recovery. It’s not just exotic craft. We recover all kinds of things. [♪upbeat music playing♪ When a call would come in, typically it meant we were going out to what I call the range, which is in the desert of California, and we would be there to support from a security and transportation standpoint the operations out there. The range was a giant playground for Department of Defense and its private aerospace partners for testing weapons technology, radar technology, crafts, experimental crafts, and that craft’s resilience to radar and weapons technology and vice versa. It was during this work when I can talk, I’m here to talk about two different experiences with exotic craft that was non-human in origin. And it was during some of this time out on the range when I had these experiences. The first experience I’m going to talk about is when we recovered an egg and we just call it the egg because that’s what it was. It was like a giant white egg. The night that this happened, we weren’t expecting an egg. I wasn’t briefed on an egg. When this happened, it was a surprise to everyone. I can tell you within not only my leadership structure, which is most concerning when they’re surprised, but also everyone around me on my team. When this happened, we had to go, we altered our communication protocol, we altered our security protocol, and it was obvious to everyone that what we were dealing with was something extraordinary. My job that night was as a helicopter pilot. I was not on the ground. I was called in to transport that egg via external load, what we call external load, or through a long line, which is 150-foot, sometimes 200-foot long line that hangs below the helicopter. It has a remote hook on it. That remote hook can be attached to hardware that secures the load, and then we fly that load away to a drop point, and from there, it goes wherever it’s going to go on a secured transport. Did you see this egg? I saw it, absolutely. What did it look like? It’s probably 20 feet, plus or minus, I don’t know, 10%. From my point of view, I was 150 feet from it, had a 150-foot long line that night, hovered right over it, hooked up to it. It looked like a giant… 20 feet longitudinally? Yeah, 20 feet longitudinally, spherical with a little bit of an asymmetrical, three-dimensional rounding shape to it. It’s like a pearly white. I don’t know if it was wet or moist, but it wasn’t like flat white. It was like pearly white. Granted, this is at night at this point. It was after civil twilight, so it’s dark. I’m flying under NVGs, but there was enough lunar illumination that I could see it with the naked eye. What’s an NVG? A night vision goggle. So it’s an enhanced omni-electronic system that takes into account IR light. But you could see it outside? I could see it. I could flip my goggles up and see it, flip my goggles down and see it. It was secured with nets, basically. It was secured with nets? Nets. And somebody wrapped nets around it? Somebody on your team? Yeah, someone on the ground team. Wow. And did they sort of touch the craft while they were wrapping nets around? The team there must have touched it, yeah. And did they experience any effects? Not that I know of. I didn’t talk much. It was compartmentalization on steroids that night, so I didn’t debrief with the ground crew much. There’s a few guys on the ground crew that we’ve talked to since, but a lot of the details of everyone’s experience weren’t shared, necessarily. Any other core details about the craft, the weight, any symbology on it? No. I mean, it was smooth, seamless, no symbology. I could tell you it was less than 5,000 pounds because that was the capacity of my helicopter at that time. I don’t remember exactly what it weighed. When we fly in to recover a load or to pick, we use the term pick, which is I’m going to connect and pull something off no matter what it is. I get a briefing on the way in as to what my load is going to be. I get disclosed its approximate weight, dimensions, and then I get a HAZMAT disclosure as to whether or not there’s any HAZMAT on board or if there are any SOLs on board, which is life forms. That night, there was no disclosure for HAZMAT or SOLs on board, or what we call SOBs, SOLs on board. And it was just an object. And, yeah, took it to a drop point, which was about 15 miles away, and set it down very carefully, and it was hauled off somewhere, and that was the end of it. Why do you think it landed on a human flight testing range? I could see a skeptic in the audience saying, oh, awfully convenient that you’re landing right next to wherever you guys are operating. Yeah, well, it wasn’t. It actually went off the range, which was added to part of our challenge, and I can’t tell you where it landed, but it was tracked and intercepted over the range, and by the time it finally interfaced with the ground, it was off the playground, which complicated our recovery. Would another possible answer to that be that UAPs are attracted to sensitive military sites? We know exactly what they’re attracted to, and we intentionally attract them. And when I say we, anyone that’s out playing around with this kind of stuff knows that there are things that they are attracted to. Whether or not that was intentional, that was the primary objective that night, I don’t know. I can tell you that that night there was another team present that I know of that deals with the summoning component of data collection, and that team’s intention usually is or known to be associated with summoning or getting a UAP or non-human craft to show up. Question from the audience. Was the egg sitting upright when you pulled up on it? Oh, it was flat. Yeah, horizontal. Did it appear like it crashed, or did it land and fall over? It didn’t look messed up to me, and there was no disturbed earth around it. It’s not like it toe-picked in or dug in. I guess just like, I don’t know, when I’m hearing the story, a big giant 20-foot egg, how do you know that’s non-human intelligence? Okay, that’s a great question. I’ve got three different reasons or criteria for determining that it was NHI. One, relying on myself as an expert of not only what flies around in our skies, but even at the extreme of advanced technologies and capabilities within the U.S. government at the highest level in private industry, and seeing those things fly around and operate at the range all the time. This is why it was kind of a process for me up until very shortly after the egg, because still, the night of the egg, it’s just like you get called in, everyone’s a little nervous, but it’s so real when you look at it. It’s not like in the background you’re hearing, oh, and there’s this light from heaven like you grew up on movies. It’s like, this is an epic moment. Where’s the crescendo? It’s like, no, it’s just flying a helicopter, come over a ridge where there’s an egg sitting there and dudes sitting around on the ground flashing you, calling you in while you’re flying your hook. I’m like, where’s all the intensity? It’s like, it’s so blatant and in your face and so real, it can almost, it doesn’t register as exciting in that format. Now, I’m sure the experience of running into an alien in your bedroom is not that way, but I’ve never had that experience, so I don’t know. But what I’m getting at is, for me, it was a process up to there because so many things we see in the sky out at the river, range are fantastical. It’s like you see things change shape, change color, come in to site, go out of site, travel at extreme speeds, appear to go and come from the earth or the mountain or a ridge, and you just assume most of the time that what you’re seeing is our own advanced tech or cloaking systems or projections or light artifacts of weapon systems, and then you’ve just got from, you know, just from being outside at night in the desert, which I could invite anyone to go spend some time at night just looking up with your dumb human eyeballs, and you’re going to see some weird stuff. So we’ve seen a lot of stuff, and that night, number one, it was not expected. So if it was human, there would have been a much different response to it. There would have been some expectation that what we were working on that night may have may have not responded well to the radar that was being thrown at it, and we would have expected a crash and was like, okay, we would have been trained on how to deal with that. No one was trained on how to deal with that, and everybody acted really weird. So then there’s that localized response that was anomalous, and if there’s any human on earth that’s going to know what that is and how to deal with it, it would have been me and my team, and we didn’t know. There’s no one else that’s like, oh, shit, I need to call in the specialized team. Look behind me, I see a picture of myself, like that’s okay. So I’m the guy. Subsequent to that, it was also confirmed to me by ranking members of the UAP task force that that is exactly what we ran into that night, that that was NHI, and they told me bluntly that, yes, that is a non-human anomalous craft. The last or the third reasoning I’ll give you is that since we’ve left the program and reorganized and are now working with Arrow, I can make the egg show up, and we have, and we’ve demonstrated it post-program, and we did it in August in broad daylight. Really? Yeah. So you can summon that? Yes, we can summon the egg. That is absurd. It seems absurd, but we’ve tracked it in broad daylight, the egg, moving at 10,000 miles per hour, so based on range, and it comes when we’ve, at a precise timing, when we’ve asked for. We’re doing demonstrations for the new director of Arrow. They’re fully privy. They’ve seen our videos. They’ve seen our data and our report. And Arrow is the all-domain anomaly resolution? Resolutions office, yeah. We have classes of UAP. There’s a number of classes and categories that we’ve… How many? More than eight. Do you know all of them? Yes. Can you list them? No, no. Maybe soon we can. Going back to the retrieval, so I’m saying this and not you because you don’t want to, you know, reveal anything classified. I’ve done deep dives on American anti-gravity research, exotic electromagnetic propulsion, and I even just interviewed the former deputy CTO of Northrop Grumman, who was actually part of the UAP task force, the army representative, a guy named Carl Nell. And I said, you know, is any of this crazy UFO stuff investable or actionable? We were speaking to a room full of entrepreneurs, and he said, go just watch Jesse’s video on Thomas Townsend Brown. And so to me, that is as much confirmation as we’re ever probably going to get for a little bit, at least, on the idea that we do have exotic propulsion human craft in our possession. So is there anything else that gives you conviction? Let me go into that. So let me go into the analysis that was presented to Arrow and why they’re why they consider it NHI. So best way to explain this. We set out specifically to summon the egg and record, gather sensor data on the egg. At the moment we expected or elicited the egg, it shows up moving so fast we couldn’t see with the naked eye. Another object also showed up at that time that our guy operating ROP, our top observer, saw this object that burnt the sensor in his camera. And we had another camera, luckily, that was also recording. But where the first object showed up, the sensor was damaged. Behind that, the egg flies by in dead silence, makes a turn and comes around in to land and disappears behind the house. So that wasn’t done when we did that most recent exercise. That wasn’t done on the range in coordination with the DOD or any private partners. It was done with me and the team we’ve assembled since then. And we have all the tools and talents and techniques that we did in the legacy program and now we’re doing them on our own. And when you say legacy program, legacy UFO program? Yeah, maybe a legacy is kind of a loaded term. But I would say in everyone’s prior scope of work and career fields, they’ve worked in this capacity and have had these experiences. And now, but doing it on the payroll and under the NDA obligations of the federal government, private partners. A lot of us have left those jobs. I’m no longer doing that work. I’m no longer connected in the same way I was. And since then, we’ve formed our own organization and we have all the tools and talent that we had back then, but we have it in a private venture and we’re doing our own exploration. And who’s we? We is a Skywatcher Technologies. It’s a company we formed. What you’re basically saying at a fundamental level is, I think one of the biggest critiques of the UFO phenomena is that it’s completely ephemeral. And you’re saying it’s actually repeatable. Because everyone’s like, oh, science needs to be repeatable. Wrap your knuckles on it. Some of the stuff is like, I’m not kidding, like a physical craft. Every time I drop this pen, it’s going to hit the ground. And what you’re saying is that every time you do these sort of summoning techniques and then there’s like a more physical version, Luis Elizondo, whistleblower who was involved in the OSAP program, writes in his book that they’re contemplating baiting UFOs with nuclear material. So that’s something that’s kind of open source and in public record. It’s not all tangible. Drop the pen. It hits the ground. That’s why there are eight or more classes of UAP in our work, because it ranges from the supernatural, like ground-based paranormal phenomenon to what looks like objects in the sky. And Gary Nolan, he’s on our team. He’s been there in the desert when we’ve summoned the eight. Wow. In broad daylight. So you brought Gary Nolan out. Yeah, he’s part of our new team. So a Nobel-nominated Stanford professor has seen this occur. He’s borne witness to this. He didn’t see it with his own eyes, because no one did. It was moving too fast. But he’s seen the report and our sensor data afterwards. All this information that I’m giving you, including our reports, has all been given to Arrow and we can get into that. But this incident and the future incidents that have happened that we’re going to talk about, you know, in the last five years, all of this has been disclosed to, you know, I’ve spent a lot of times speaking. One thing I wanted to do was to do this the right way, was to give our institutions and our authorities a chance to hear this stuff first and to reconcile it and to do the right thing with it. And primarily give me guidance on what to do with it moving forward. So, you know, everything I’m telling you and more has been shared with Congress in a SCIF, in a top secret TSCI environment where I’ve given testimony. Real quick, a SCIF is a Secure Compartmentalized Information Facility, basically a Faraday cage. No signals in or out. And then TSCI is top secret compartmentalized information. Yeah, secure compartment, yes. And what’s funny, I don’t, I mean, I’m a kid from the 70s, but if you remember the show Mork and Mindy, Robin Williams was one of his first roles. He wore the suspenders. The story goes, and they show it in the preview of that show, and it’s part of every show, is this white egg. He flew to Earth in this white egg. And at night, I think he would like go to sleep in this egg and she’d be like, good night. And he’d go be like, nanu nanu. And he’d go sleep in this egg. And I’m like, bro, like how much of our culture is like, is that, did someone know? Well, the egg as a form has shown up a few times in quote unquote ufology. You have Lonnie Zamora, Socorro, New Mexico in 1964, where he’s this police officer. He sees this egg actually land, sees burnt vegetation in the area. James Fox made this amazing movie called Moment of Contact. Everybody in this little town in Brazil reports seeing an egg landing, and it seems to be emitting this sort of like ammonia-like thing, and even seems to kill a doctor. It’s pretty crazy. So the egg thing does show up. That’s one thing I just wanted to mention. Like sometimes I feel like truth is actually stranger than fiction, and a lot of times like these, these tales, the stories are influenced by something we’ve seen in real life or heard about or sounded too crazy to actually believe. And one thing I’ve been looking at in this space is the commonalities between what people are seeing. And you just described there being eight or more different types of UAPs. And the egg is something we’ve seen throughout history and seen throughout multiple sightings. Glowing eggs. Eggs. Another egg-shaped object. Egg. Egg. Egg. The egg. The cosmic egg. Egg. Egg. Egg. Egg. Fellow alchemists, it’s a new year, and that means it’s time to get organized and take control of our financial wellness. For me, Rocket Money has been an absolute game changer. It helped me uncover all sorts of subscriptions I totally forgot about. Like a few I had no idea I was paying for months after I stopped using the services. With Rocket Money, I canceled these in just a few clicks, saving money instantly. Rocket Money is a personal finance app that helps find and cancel your unwanted subscriptions, monitors your spending, and helps lower your bills so you can grow your savings. Seeing all your subscriptions in one place is such a relief. You know exactly where your money is going. For the ones you don’t want anymore, Rocket Money can help you cancel them. No awkward phone calls, no hassle, just savings. Rocket Money also gives you a clear view of your expenses across all your accounts. 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Yeah, I mean so within the 10 plus years since I first retrieved a craft in non-human origin where I was just serving as a dumb helicopter pilot like what the hell is going on a lot has happened since then I mean we’ve had the disclosure movement kick off but other recoveries that we could talk about were very emotional to me because there was a consciousness component to that and I felt I felt that there was something conscious about the craft during the recovery process that had tapped into me and was disruptive in the most beautiful way in my ability to operate a helicopter and almost led to me punching this craft off and creating a whole nother crash site like in between where I picked it up and dropped it off. What what what is this instance? This is the other one I can talk about called the eight gone which is basically a disc a flying disc with eight individual sections when viewed from above and on this particular night I got my normal readout for the load and this time it included a hazmat disclosure for biologics so that typically meant you know souls on board is the disclosure I would get if there were living bodies humans. Who’s who’s giving that readout as to whether there are guys on the ground? So the guys that manifest and they don’t say bad bodies they just say hazmat. Have you ever seen a body? No I’ve never seen an alien body I’ve seen plenty of human bodies and recovered human bodies in this same way and it’s a standard disclosure so when I was flying in I thought that’s what I was dealing with it’s like oh shit the pilot crashed on the range and we’re hauling off you know body parts. Your colleagues have seen bodies non-human intelligence bodies? You’d have to ask them. Okay and so in this case you see this eight gun craft this kind of octagon? Yeah as I’m flying towards it I get the readout on what it is and I was trained as a pilot a long time ago and the last 20 years that’s I’ve served more as a as a pilot than I have as a ground crew member or in any other capacity and the primary thing I’ve done is has been a helicopter air operations expert so on most of these missions I’m working from the cockpit of the helicopter and so the ground crew is a separate crew that gets dispatched and they’re dealing with hazmat security containment setting up a perimeter and an entry control point and observation like they’re doing all that I sit back at a separate location I get GPS coordinates at the very last second I get dispatched I go there and then in route from very short range out maybe five minutes out I get read a description of what it is I’m picking up this night I get an approximate size and dimension and then I get negative souls on board and a hazmat disclosure for biologics for biological hazmat so I’m like oh great somebody crashed someone’s dead all right so as I’m getting close to this craft how big is the craft again it’s not that big probably 25 30 feet but it’s like a it’s like a disk maybe the size of this concrete slab here like this one’s dark gray like a dark matte gray or black from what I could tell I was getting very little light signature off of just the hard angles of the of the sections but the eight sections like the intersection between the spine and then some of the texture that existed in those panels in between and still like there’s nothing about this inherently that it’s like that could be one of our crafts where where is this by the way California desert okay similar location similar yeah very similar and but as I’m flying and I get closer to this craft um it’s well first of all it’s quiet when I say quiet it was quiet on the radios at that time but my mind wasn’t quiet I start having this very emotional experience um it’s almost man I haven’t explained it this way before but it’s like when you feel like you’re about to throw up but you’re not sure you’re like am I going to throw up oh no I’m good I’m like no it’s going to happen like it was like that but not a nausea it was like an emotional escalation that started inside of me that seemed completely foreign and the closer I got to the object the more emotional I got sad or ominous or how it was would you describe it was it was it was beautiful it was a beautiful feeling fuck but it’s so weird it’s like that uh it’s like that minor chord as a kid it’s like that sad beauty it’s like a first a minor third and a fifth it was beautiful but there was a sadness to it did it communicate anything I didn’t get a message other than like I just felt like I was in the presence of my mother it was like a feminine energy that was loving and sad and I don’t know what it was but the closer I got the more intense it got I hooked up as I’m flying back to the drop site I’m like to the drop site I’m like completely overwhelmed I’m like bawling my eyes out flying a helicopter at night like trying not to run into mountains and shit and I’m like oh my god this is not good and I’m like am I I don’t and I didn’t want to tell anyone about this because I’m like then I’m not fit to fly um and I’m like am I am I stressed am I sleeping with too much cortisol estrogen pumped through my veins you know what’s going on and then as I get close I make it there I safely get it popped off and then as I fly away it goes away I just want to paint the picture for people here because it’s like you’re flying a helicopter at night using night vision you have no you’re like in pretty intense terrain yeah you’re carrying something that is like messing with your consciousness as you’re doing one of the hardest you’re flying one of the hardest objects ever made yeah um like have you had you ever been in a situation where you had something interfere with you on a conscious like it doesn’t feel like a no and I think that’s what was most disturbing to me is being someone who prides themselves on like comfort and chaos like I’ve had every other thing try and fuck with me while I’m flying at night like so much distraction intensity and life or death situations and I’m cool with it but this messed me up man it messed me up and there was a psionics team working that night um and so I don’t know whether you know it’s one of two things like either there was there was something with a very powerful talent inside of that thing that was connecting its soul or spirit to me as I was flying or one of the psionic assets got its consciousness trapped in that thing and somehow was communicating through me and so what what are psionic assets um when we look at collecting data one of the areas that we look to collect data is through a psionic asset which is an individual who’s trained in remote viewing um psychic abilities telekinesis that type of thing which is basically through a number of different um protocols can transition into a place where they are highly sensitive to their environment from from the point of view of consciousness through a consciousness field and that is not a woo-woo topic and I’m just throwing it in but it’s so matter of fact to me that it’s the same as saying night vision goggles like it’s there we use it and it’s worked both on the it’s used both on the summoning side and the data collection side so you’re saying humans summon these humans there are two types of summoning that can be done that we’ve proven works and we’re still working with uh there’s machine-based summoning systems and there’s man-based summoning systems uh machine-based summoning systems are uh without going into details are signals um and uh energy systems that can be turned on or activated uh that summon UAP activity or that UAP UAP are attracted to and I say again remembering what UAP means it’s a very broad term it’s uh unidentified anomalous phenomenon so unidentified anomalous shit shows up that’s pretty broad category now in order to be effective at serving as a PA you can think of consciousness as a field don’t think of it as this superficial woo-woo thing like it’s literally like like the world wide web it’s like the internet um it’s always there we can’t see it it’s full of information and exciting things but point to it I don’t see it here yep right so where is it you have to be able to tap into it you need something like a wi-fi signal to get there so individuals that have this gift are people that have been trained and have the talent to serve as a wi-fi to tap into the consciousness field where everything in the universe seems to exist or have its presence and once you can do that now you’re in an environment where while we’re having other multiple forms of sense the data in place if a UAP shows up is it registering in the consciousness field that our PA asset is connected to through the wi-fi and the wi-fi is this process of getting into mindful meditation so two things are happening in that process or protocol of serving as a PA lowering intellect increasing intuition and then reintroducing intellect at a higher level as an observer not as a driver how do you do that well you’re either born with a gift or you go through you spend 30 years as a Shaolin monk and you figure out how to do it the hard way there are either easier ways there are cheats and some of the cheats that have been experimented with are things that have not fared well for those involved in the program including children and I’ll talk about them so how do we how do we heighten intuition well you do it through stress inoculation you do it through triggering flight or fight or flight biology systems in our body some of the most powerful things you can do is trigger that on like if it ain’t broke don’t fix it don’t reinvent the wheel the human mind and body is already something so spectacular we don’t understand it I don’t know why it works but if you can trigger flight or fight all these things get activated and intuition does so stress inoculation is one you got to hijack the amygdala and boom you put someone there you need to do that to heighten intuition while subduing intellect how do you do that you subdue the intellect by disassociation so there are chemical ways to induce disassociation there are more proactive ways that you could do yourself like through meditation but all in all those are the two things you do to get into that state well kids are naturally way more visceral in both of those things they’re naturally more intuitive their intellect is lower there is one more thing that you have to do to even enter that and that deals with the other eye instinct so your instincts have to be satisfied at this time so that just means you have to be comfortable can’t be hungry can’t be horny can’t be tired can’t be worried about your your survival you can’t be cold you can’t be hot so all that has to be taken care of so the limbic part of your brain is not like freaking out while the prefrontal cortex whatever part of the brain it is that’s more responsible for the hardware that helps you connect to the to the consciousness internet is so satisfy the instinct heighten the intellect or suppress the intellect heighten the intuition add back in the intellect at a high level boom you’re in it now there’s another way that that we do and that’s through hardware so you could do software chemical drugs to in order to get a stress inoculation to disassociation or you can do hardware one of the guys on our team has made a breakthrough recently and uses a system which is basically a non-intrusive ultrasound system that can target the brain and induce or at least take a lot of the edge and the struggle out of transitioning into that state and so he’s he’s one of the guys that works in our new organization that is assisting us with reproducing and demonstrating all of this stuff that has gone on over the decades in the program that comes with all this baggage and secrecy and stuff and we’re trying to leave all that behind and do it now in this uh in this clean and free environment where we have autonomy as a private organization working in partnership with government organizations and in educational institutions to put this out there once and for all and you know in that effort we feel this is a much more humane way and everyone that works with us is doing so on a volunteer basis but how the ultrasound works is it can target it can get through the skull and it can target parts of the brain to help you transition out of intellect and into your intuition and the most of the experimentation that is done in the testing that is done in order to find the people that can serve in this role is done through a random number generator so he runs a runs a random number generator program and then has the subject sit there and and hopefully i’m not butchering this whole process of how he tests it but um has the subject then has the ultrasound equipment run into the brain the consciousness is activated through lowering intuition heightening intuition and lowering intellect and now the individual can impose its will on this random number generator that’s running in a computer and can cause the number to move up if he wants or causes it to move down and context for the audience a random number generator is basically a graphical interface that shows ones and zeros yeah it’s a binary computer and it’s tied to something that is conventionally thought of as random and quantum mechanics so radioactive isotope decay and photon bouncing around a little box and so it’s a perfect digital coin flip over a long enough time scale you should expect the same amount of ones and zeros with maybe a small standard deviation yeah and if you’re saying that through stress inoculation and dissociation or through this hardware technique somebody can in a statistically significant way affect yes it’s called a z score in this random event event generator so you get more ones or more zeros you’re basically saying that that person has more ability to render their reality and affect that more of a mind over matter effect through consciousness they can affect reality of that which is nuts that’s crazy and here’s the crazy thing even if they in that test because zero or flat line or the middle line is the reality right so even if someone could get it to deviate the most minuscule number any deviation is infinitely mind-blowing because because it’s that good of a test because there should be no deviation so any deviation should be good and what happens is crazy because as it starts once the subject looks over realizes they’re being successful they’re like oh shit i’m moving the thing then it’s all burr and it drops back down and they got to go back into it and then you’ll see the the spike the trend the vector of the trend over the report moves up and down and when they kind of come out of it realize they’re moving it it goes back down and then it almost becomes exponential they just they blast it out of proportion a close friend and mentor of mine used to specialize in this experiment at princeton their parapsychology lab or the the pair lab where they studied all sorts of anomalous you know stuff and he would call this the rebound effect and you can analogize it with you know you’re uh playing basketball and you’re making a bunch of shots or whatever and then all of a sudden you become you know conscious of it and then you have this snapback effect and it’s in life generally people have these sort of upward momentum streaks and then they come you know crashing down and there’s always this sort of local mean reversion yeah and so it’s it’s wild to see that actually exemplified in the form of an experimental so as fun as that is and we could sit here and talk about that all day and just take people off yeah like there’s a real practical application for that so i’m just saying that to say like this is a real thing what we do you put someone in out there that’s trained to do that and you support them with the right support system and environment and then you’re also out there with the right data collection equipment to not only monitor their experience to make sure they’re safe self and health are safe and healthy and not getting hurt but you’re also correlating it to your other measure it’s a measuring device for us that’s what this whole crazy thing about taking a psionic asset putting them in our our work suite which is like a faraday cage um and getting them involved is just to add a sixth seventh eighth piece of equipment so when this when this phenomenon shows up does the random number generator in here move when it also shows up on ir over our radar so it’s not like we’re going off the deep end our whole world is all about psionics and remote viewing it’s not no it’s literally correlating with an observable you’re getting on another and multi-sensory corroboration is what you’re looking for in any sort of scientific process and it works the other way sometimes the intent is to have the psionic assets summon the phenomenon and the rest of the equipment is turned down and then because we want to be able to isolate where we’re having successes so they they ramp up they activate they summon they invite it in and then the rest of the equipment becomes measuring for their for their summoning uh effort and so yeah so it sounds like the u.s government has used kids as psionic assets and does that bother you at all yeah that bothers me yeah yeah it does it does bother me do you have a model of what these crafts are and what’s inside of them well interestingly enough this particular craft the eight gone is exactly what michael herrera reports to have seen that’s the one issue it’s the one time i’ve ever heard this brought up that account and it’s it’s a it’s it’s matt black like you described he calls it phantom black and he says it has eight you know like an octagonal shape yeah so i heard michael herrera’s story in washington dc there was a in 2023 i believe there was a whistleblower conference shortly after the whistleblower protection act got activated and then there was this at the national press club hosted by steven grayer there were several whistleblowers that had uh decided to come forward in that environment and share their stories so we were actually sent there uh on behalf of our employer to look for whistleblowers that we were trying to basically report to the fbi and get arrested because at that time i was in this weird place between becoming a whistleblower or rounding up the whistleblowers and shutting them up because there are good reasons and bad reasons to be a whistleblower and so so you are at this press event red teaming basically exactly you are trying to maybe gather intel on people who might become a liability for the program yeah and you hear michael herrera give his testimony and i wasn’t prepared for that so it’s i’m sorry because you had already seen the acorn yes and then he talked to us what you had experienced firsthand and then he’s getting up there and everyone’s like this guy’s full of shit well he was his was the craziest testimony from that and so basically this guy is saying in 2009 he’s deployed with his marine unit to the philippines then a small part of that marine unit like eight or nine people get actually moved off to indonesia is this right yes and there’s a a seven richter scale earthquake that just occurred in the area so it’s a disaster zone this is good we’re going to want to go over this whole thing keep going and he sees this eight gone octagon shaped craft matte black he describes it as like blacker than black and it’s hovering above the treetops and his unit starts to close in because what what is this thing yeah and there’s a there’s a there’s a humming sound around it so not a traditional engine yeah and as they’re sort of moving towards it what he describes is this elite possibly department of energy paramilitary unit with technical gear out the wazoo comes and apprehends he and his team yeah and they have bioscanners and they have all sorts of technical gear they’re threatening this team of marines and they’re saying it’s easy to get lost in the jungle right yeah they were actually two of the guys um we’re actually talking about either hey should we smoke these guys right now you know that’s what they kept saying it was kind of feeding more into the fear at that point because again i don’t know who these guys are i know they had american gear they had american sidearms as well um if these guys have actually taken off like we have and then why they’re going against people like us and even willing to kill um servicemen who just even stumbled onto this it just blows my mind and it’s very sick and so michael herrera comes back to the u.s he’s shocked he actually does a little bit of press around this because he’s like this is ridiculous that this is being hid to the american public and then somebody back channels to him from the program and says actually the reason that that elite squad was there and they were there next to that craft is because they were transferring psionic assets for the program and so this was a human trafficking operation where they were taking people putting them in pods loading them onto these craft and then that craft was taking them back to the u.s for use we back channeled it that was us we back channeled that was you that was me oh my god so when that happened we were able to cooperate at least three key things one that those type of paramilitary units do exist because guys from our group get recruited and offer jobs to go to all to go exercise our skills elsewhere outside the u.s i have never done it i’ve never been part of those teams the other thing is the description of the craft is exactly what i had seen before and my team had seen before except he claimed this one was like 300 feet in diameter never seen one that big the other thing were the containers he described the containers at the time as being used for transporting drugs he was just making speculating he wasn’t lying but he assumed that they were there must have been transporting drugs because he saw these units on the roofs well those units were so those units that they used are consistent with the workstations we use when we’re out on the range there there are many split hvac systems that are used up there because as i explained that’s where we have our data observation team in those and most of the time those are the faraday cages for the psionic assets we also know that uh that there are operations oconus outside the continental united states where prospecting for psionic assets takes place and they’re highly coveted and the interesting thing is is i hear in those programs that um there’s something valuable about the life experience in third world countries in that it seems as though people that live a simpler life and are outdoors more and have less contaminants in their food and their drugs and in their culture seem to be a little bit better at disassociating and heightening their intuition and they come willingly because of the economic imbalance between where they come from so what i really don’t like about how that came out and when sean ryan was there at the time with us in dc when this happened and we talked about this shortly after that is when herrera went on his show and the thing took a kind of a dark turn because the term human trafficking was was slapped on this thing and when you hear that you think of slavery and sex trafficking and all these things um and it’s my understanding that’s not at all what goes on in these operations it’s no different than someone setting up any other type of business and the people come willingly the people that work in these programs it’s a great job it’s fun there some of them have known their whole life that they have this intuition or this special talent and they’re socially awkward or have other pathology social pathologies that they’re dealing with too that somehow seems like it plays into this so it’s like not all the people that are talented in this way are normal in every other way it’s like god created some balance so when they can come and get involved in this program and have food and shelter and be treated with respect and make money like if you went down there on your high horse representing united states and and morality and went in and tried to liberate these people they’d be like get out of here we don’t be liberated this is our job can i play devil’s advocate for one second i think in the michael herrera testimony he thought that whatever organization this paramilitary group was from was taking advantage of the fact that indonesia was this disaster zone right and some of these people could go missing easily yes and so that to me that’s one theory or or the hurricane the natural disaster was actually threatening a workspace for this operation and they needed to get the hell out of dodge got it i have no firsthand experience with that operation nor direct contact with anyone involved with it i know of that type of operation i know of that craft i know of those containers um and i know of uh operations that that that sounded like and so the whole point of all this and let me put a big giant red bow on it for you is that this was one i liked i saw a good marine up there when i saw mike i saw a brother in arms doing his best to be put now with a microphone in his face in a fucking suit and tie in washington dc when he’s cut out to be carrying a saw through the jungle and now he’s doing his best and he’s an honest good guy and i wasn’t gonna let him hang so i i sidebar grier and a bunch of other people and said we need to talk about this i thanked michael um and i have been loyal to him throughout the process and trying to help him as much as i can get support for this while also trying to stay low key to figure out where the problems and landmines are with this issue and this issue was brought up to the the entire incident was brought up with my collaborations and my additional information was presented to sean kapatrick’s version of arrow he patently denied it and wrote it off as is uh anti-interesting and there was no evidence and i know for a fact that sean kapatrick has admitted outside of the office of arrow directly to members of the senate intelligence committee that it did in fact happen exactly as reported by michael herrera and with my additions that’s absolutely wild the implication of this story is that we can fly these objects because we were transporting these psionic assets in this octagonal shaped crap so i would think and again i’m stepping way outside my bounds i have no idea how and who that operates but i something like a reversed engineered version of the craft is probably what you were saying so this brings up maybe the most fundamental question which is why has the u.s government prime aerospace contractors international organizations according to you why have they been systematically using these psionic assets uh using other kind of machinery based attraction techniques to attract these ufos what are they doing with the ufos that land like what do you think was done with the egg that you retrieved for example um first of all i don’t know but i am taken somewhere to a secure facility and it was either destroyed or hidden or buried because they they have so many of them now that it’s not interesting to them or that it was uh researched in with the utmost secrecy the senior eg and g engineer described my great uncle that it was egg-shaped about the size of a suv they tried to penetrate the hull try to open it they couldn’t they said that they were able to take some very small samples of the material i’m not an expert in chemistry but i guess the isotope ratio or the mixture of elements they concluded was not made on earth so it’s i mean it sounds like we have by your account and again this is fully speculation i know i realize you don’t know this but like thousands of ufos i think the problem is saying we that’s a big problem because who’s we we don’t have shit most of this stuff is kept in very niche private aerospace and this is why the government doesn’t quite have a handle on it this stuff and the only reason i i can say this is because i know how our operations work like nobody knows what i do on a daily basis even my my middle leader i could go out on the range and have a particular day or have an interaction or have something happen nobody in washington dc knows what the hell i did that day then it doesn’t matter how profound it is why is there not a clear chain of command why is there not some sort of central authority you have rumors of you know a buddy of mine walter kern you know i introduced him to david grush he’s a journalist he came out saying you know uh grush told him that cheney was the gate the gatekeeper for all legacy ufo programs you know like you have these people who do seem to be at the top you hear rumors of kissing that’s part of our ignorance is the assumption that there’s some functional structure in place there’s not there’s not and why isn’t there well because private aerospace as holds a lot of the power and the real estate in this in this space and the u.s government they kind of lost control of it a long time yeah that that’s my sense is that in the 50s when the atomic energy commission was set up where all this stuff was going down around los alamos and other sensitive nuclear sites you had basically the overlaying of nuclear secrecy on top of ufo secrecy and so if you look at the special definition of nuclear material it’s basically anything emitting alpha beta gamma radiation any sort of material with radiological properties are born secret upon retrieval if you’re the u.s government and you retrieve this stuff officially you’re in big trouble because you know you don’t have plausible deniability you kind of committed this crime this is open source science but if you get a prime aerospace contractor to do it you’re much safer and you’re more insulated yeah and you have this whole cold war secrecy era and i think what we have now is kind of a cargo cult of that cold war secrecy it’s this uh structural overhang that is completely anachronistic and actually makes no sense from an american national defense or security standpoint and it’s not like they trade like i wasn’t even told that like nobody told me that’s the structure i’m working under i had to find out the hard way when the new york times article came out like 2017 uh it was really about then things started getting really weird for us and there was a lot of movement in our world. A lot of things changed for us. A lot of our our contract call-outs changed. New people are introduced into leadership structures. Our communication method changed. Our compensation package got creative. And just knowing the way this world works is because it’s so heavily compartmentalized and because we operate as a hidden hand, that’s one of the primary benefits of the service we provide, that the plausible deniability button that people at the top can hit in order to protect themselves would sever us as the hidden hand. And that’s kind of an ugly truth we always knew was there but we were willing to put ourselves in that position because we’re patriots and we always believe that it was for the better of our nation and to strengthen our country. At this time, that came into question because there was so much happening and it was obvious and we knew people started peering over the cubicles, you could say, of compartmentalization. We started sharing facts. We started putting together the best we could, the broader picture of what’s going on here because everyone had a little piece of the puzzle. And the guy you’re talking to today sitting here and the reason I can talk broadly about this is because my view and understanding of this has like double quadrupled if not more just in the last five years than it had in the previous 20 because of all the team-building and correlation and the networking going on with trusted individuals like some of our mutual friends to try and figure out what the hell is going on. Not only to answer the questions of to what extent does our country have advanced technology, how much of it is non-human, but to what extent has our government become compromised and how much are we at risk? Where are the good guys? Where are the bad guys? We’re kind of screwed because we’re trapped on the dark side of this thing. The military-industrial complex or the deep black state is not this evil empire full of like Darth Vader’s. It’s the best and brightest. It’s the most patriotic. It’s the most talented. It’s the most committed, accomplished people working over here. And 99% of what goes on this nation benefits from and is what makes the nation great and powerful is because of the fruits these institutions and private companies and the people that work there provide. So like that’s really scary to get like oh you know I’m like oh my god are we one of the bad guys? So we’re trying to figure out which side of this issue to be on and one of the things I feel extremely fortunate about in this moment right now is that the majority of the good guys have moved to this side. I mean thanks to people like David Grush who stuck his neck out and blazed the initial trail for disclosure and took a lot of crap for doing so and I’m sure he thinks made a lot of mistakes and could have done things better but he’s made it much easier in a much better environment for us to come forward and it’s much more obvious that the bad guys are weaning in number and they’re doomed and our numbers are growing. But at the time when I was at the conference in DC that wasn’t the case we were teetering and you know you’re faced with that ultimate question of like do you do the right thing or do you self-preserve and as a married man with kids that self preservation option becomes much more complex because it’s about like my wife and kids and my livelihood and my quality of life and my my wealth and net worth and everything we’ve worked on is at stake and so it’s a very complimented question but my it didn’t take me long to decide because like I had to believe that in the end of the day that my intuition and my instincts for patriotism and for good would lead me at every moment to the proper conclusion and this really began when we sat there in the audience me and my teammate and we’re listening to Michael Herr’s story and I’m going and I was able to understand what he was saying was true or at least had elements that I was fully aware of that he didn’t quite understand that he couldn’t have been making up because if he did somebody planted ideas in his imagination because he nailed exactly what goes on so it was at this moment that we began to help out and what does that look like so the second you decide internally I’m gonna choose the hard path this program needs to be reformed this Michael Herr guys actually good guy do you go back to headquarters and you say you go to your boss and you say hey actually you were wrong to have me red team this guy or what exactly happens there we kind of move in the dark we went we went back and we flipped we flipped on we flipped on red team power in the ultimate fashion and we began to black team the black team is what we did so and it was fun to have that clear of an orientation and to be that fucking fired up about it because we went after them and so the first question is who the hell are we working for and what are their intentions this was happening at a time we were set out to recover some sensitive information that was believed to be kept on some tough books Panasonic tough books this was in the last four years and it’s believed on these topics was highly sensitive information that was evidence to see our programs that we were involved in we received human intelligence that gave us the Intel package we needed to pursue where we thought the first set of tough books might be a recovery team was sent and we found the top books I’m not going to say where and we returned them to our employer at a familiar facility in the California desert the tough books were missing the hard drives we then set out to recover the hard drives we found the human and our human asset led us to another location high in the Sierras which was a glacier lake and the hard drives were sealed in a steel container like 25 feet underwater what so a third mission though exactly is on these hard drives I don’t know whatever it was there was at least two adversarial parties who would do anything to get their hands on them and we got caught in the middle the next mission we went out on I’ll just tell you that shots were fired and we called bullshit and that’s when we began to backtrack and set out with our our own effort to find out exactly who we’re working for and what they were interested in can you say you were working for no I can’t say there’s currently a two investigations taking place right now and FBI is one of them and when you say you called bullshit shots were fired can you say anything about that incident no no but I’ll take the we got jerked around our Intel changed last minute our location changed there was a lot of bad things that were going on rhythmically that didn’t smell right but we kept putting one foot in front of the other and you almost have to at that point whether you’re playing along or not because you need to play along to gather in to do interrogation of what traps are being laid in front of you just hope you don’t fall in them because that’s helpful information when you say they are using you for plausible deniability just to sever the hidden hand can you say anything more about that yeah it was believed that there was evidence of crash retrievals that were proof of criminal activity on these tough books and that this data was captured illegally on operations within the program in the desert and that there was a whistleblower group of whistleblowers that were going to be turning this evidence in to the powers that be in order to expose the program and thereby doing that expose individuals so this is everyone likes to ask like why are you talking are you aren’t you afraid for your life how can people haven’t been killed and I’ll tell you why there’s a couple reasons one why am I not afraid that someone’s gonna try and silence me with death well first of all if they if they wanted to and were capable of doing it if they had the will and skill to do it they would have done it already they also like Lou wouldn’t be here Dave wouldn’t be here I wouldn’t be here they would have done it already I I pray that you were right just to play devil’s advocate for a second Lou and Dave are of different class than you you’ve touched the metal so to speak maybe not the craft itself but you are as close as it gets to the actual retrieval why does that why would that make me any more of a well there’s always the ability to stigmatize somebody like I know Dave and I find him beyond reproach but there’s always the ability to hang on this guy’s just this Intel guy he’s gathered a bunch of secondhand information and it’s what people use to detract from his testimony right now yeah with you I think it’s kind of hard if you were to just just listen to everything you’ve said today it’s tough to deny well that comes down to the will so I say it’s two things that keep you alive or kill you is there has to be intent and capability I call it will and skill so there’s be a will to to take me out there has to be the skill the ability to do it so why is there the will is going to come from this place it’s it’s not going to come from the what everyone thinks is the national security issue we need to hide this stuff where that’s going to come from is from individuals within the organization or who have been involved in any part of these activities who have committed crimes and wants to cover their ass they will do anything to protect themselves which includes taking out other people wetworks and so that that that makes for a very narrow group of folks that might at least have the will to do that and you can kind of smoke those people out skill is the other one like who’s actually going to facilitate this and how will that be facilitated there are some sneaky ways to do it there are some more blatant like brute force ways to do it you don’t want to show up at my house and think you’re gonna be successful with brute force because that’s gonna go south for you really quickly or you don’t want to approach me anywhere in public like you’re gonna you’re gonna have to really do something creative because I’m not afraid of the boogeyman I am the boogeyman so you better bring it but that doesn’t that’s a lot of talk when you have wife and kids so I’m not here to bring that on but there there is not it hasn’t been shown that anyone has the will and skill to do it or they would have already for me and I think there are more good guys out on this side than there are bad even if at the high level now that all being said I do know for a fact that there are leadership within entities that I work for and with that have called for wet works and there are people that have died under very suspicious circumstances at the most convenient time for those who would want to have them silenced and who were coming out and who were speaking out on our activities anybody you know yes can you say anything more no because there’s an investigation happening right now and they’re they’re looking into it that’s scary man it is very scary but so when we realized we’re being compromised I sent everybody home and I we began to do our own operation and I wanted to know if this came from the very top was the top of our organization either complicit in this attempt to sever the hidden hand which is us or were they compromised because there’s the only two options do you feel now like you have the proper protection in place because I think from an American national security standpoint if you have these different fiefdoms where the left hand isn’t talking to the right hand you have over compartmentalization yeah you have all this knowledge locked up in these disparate pockets and you’re competing with China and Russia that it’s actually maladaptive from a national security standpoint so somebody in authority saying you know I see this Jake guy he’s actually acting in the best interest of the country let’s protect him yes in order to come out yeah now that takes us to Congress because when I went to the director of security and realized he didn’t have my back I realized I couldn’t trust my nebulous network anymore and then I was at a loss and I was left with the one like emergency button that I always thought I had and I punched it and that was to go to Congress to go to the Senate Intelligence Committee and go to the monitor for CIA and spill my guts and go help me help me help me this is what’s happened like help that was probably one of the most discouraging experiences of my life because within minutes of being there and asking for help they were begging for my help interesting like they didn’t understand what was going on they had no handle on no they were they were being bullied and being harassed at their homes and were scared for their life and wanted me to set up a personal protection detail to help protect them and I was like fine fuck I guess this is where we’re going with it are there are there rumors because the long-standing rumors are that this is run by the CIA that in 52 you had public-facing UFO UFO research in the form of blue book this sort of you know public relations effort cleave off from the more vital organization actually studying this stuff and that was the CIA’s Office of Scientific Intelligence in collaboration with Patel Memorial Institute the Atomic Energy Commission and then even up until today of Chris Sharp writing a great article for the Liberation Times he’s talking about kind of the the chain of command for the UFO program and he cites Glenn Gaffney as the CIA’s director of science and technology as being kind of one of the primary gatekeepers of the legacy UFO program so when you go to them and you say all this crazy stuff is happening and it’s super disorganized and it’s you know kind of unethical are they they’re really just completely unaware you mean Congress no I mean the CIA CIA so what’s happening is there are multiple programs and multiple cover-ups happening all the same time everyone’s not everyone but they’re that’s the biggest misunderstanding that everyone would benefit from resolving is this is not that organized and it’s not there’s not that much synergy at play and why why I know it’s valuable that I’m here today is like I have I’m like the fingertips like I’m out here at the and I’m like we’re touching it we’re the grassroots on the ground interacting with crash recovery not reverse engineering that’s a different group but all we’ve heard from is like like say the shoulder joint like the head of this thing yeah but the shoulder has no idea what’s going on at the fingertips and you could get to the elbow you could have some corruption and misdirection here that’s like that’s like changing the direction and energy that’s being sent down to the fingertips and vice versa there isn’t stuff going up now so it’s this like gangly octopus of an organization it’s not this model no it’s not and just think about it like we give it too much credit in that regard like how in the world could you manage like hundreds of thousands of humans first of all with all their flaws and instincts who are trained as the number one train that the number one rule is deception and so they’re all being deceiving and like there’s this supposed to be some big organization that works together then the detractors are gonna say why haven’t there been more whistleblowers and then I think that the answer is there have been there like Steven Greer has a database of hundreds of whistleblowers well this is where I I just want to say something I think for people who may be sitting in your position because they’re watching this Jake they’re watching this and they might be thinking about going through what you’re going through is there anything you’d say to them yeah you know it’s a problem and it’s sad but our Congress is not in control they are completely they’re ignorant and neutered when it comes to the subject matter for the most part they’re ignorant and neutered and where they’re not ignorant and neutered they’re corrupt and arrogant which nets us a Congress that’s in a state of paralysis by analysis and I can’t tell you like for me how sinking a feeling that was like I go running and I I’m I’m nervous because I’m gonna blow the whistle the first place I go is the Senate Intelligence Committee and the monitor for CIA and I start telling my story they don’t question it for one second they know it’s happening they’re like they’re they’re they’re edifying everything I’m saying and trying to cut me off because they’re so like excited to actually get to talk about this and are like oh my god so what I do they’re like give me your number do you have signal I need to text you these guys are at my house last night and I’m like wait a minute this was my asking for help moment my fellow citizens today we celebrate the mystery of American renewal I know that my experience it’s no coincidence that it happened during the Clinton era and the path that I took was something that was heavily influenced by the fact that the Clintons were in office and that when Clinton took office he was I think surprised to find out that he was never intended to be a part of the leadership structure he was ostensibly in control of and knew that he was surrounded by lies and limited by laws and quickly took an interest in the subject and when he couldn’t get answers started taking action and I think our whatever I ended up doing was was related to that and was part of the pressure that was put on the DOD to maybe even create like a red team to infiltrate the black team and get into the programs and then report back through our leadership structure as to what’s really going on couple interesting data points around that Hillary Clinton there’s a picture of her at Camp David and I think she had met with Lawrence Rockefeller who is really interested in UFO disclosure and she’s holding this book by this physicist Paul Davies and it’s are we alone and clearly she was getting into the topic of UFO disclosure and then John Podesta who is their chief of staff has been a major major proponent of disclosure for the last two decades yeah and if you look at the timing I I’ll tell you it’s probably no coincidence that when Hillary was running for president that that there’s a correlation in timing with the standing up of a tip and what led to the New York Times article and there are things there I think the Clintons have always wanted to be involved with disclosure and I and and as much as everyone likes to vilify them I don’t think there’s any real probably isn’t as much of like a self-serving reason other than like a general curiosity I don’t think it’s a power grab to want to take it doesn’t seem to be any real benefit to being a politician associated with the disclosure but yeah the from just my experiences and people I’ve talked to that are the know I’m probably a little bit more than the average person the Clintons have definitely been key individuals and have initiated some some efforts that are pro disclosure Trump is now promising a whole new era of disclosure obviously the proverbially famous example would be the JFK case was that somewhat of an inside job are there any details that we have that are classified that the public should should know I guess a couple questions there do you think UFOs get deprioritized because they’re spending all the political capital on these other disclosures or are there kind of as rumored ball and chain dynamics where if you get JFK disclosure you actually find out that his interest in UFOs might have something to do with his assassination again anyone could just do their homework I think if you went out and you really looked at the information that’s already been released and it’s credibility related to the JFK issue there’s clearly some ties you look at the timeline of what was going on at the time when you look at the evolution of this subjects and how our government reacted to events of the 1940s and 50s and 60s it makes a lot of sense and it seems to be the best the best theory and the fact that we might find out with Trump is exciting but I sense hesitation even from him if Kash Patel gets put as the director of FBI it seems like like he certainly was one read in on everything but is motivated to share and when I see him speaking cryptically about it recently on the clip we talked about you’re talking to a guy that’s read the entire JFK file the things that we can’t release have nothing to do with the questions you guys are asking the answers you guys want pretty much have them there’s very minimal stuff that can’t be seen from things that you wouldn’t even think are related to if you if you weren’t connected to this subject matter you might not pick up on it but what I hear him saying cryptically is that the JFK assassination is linked to the UAP topic and we have a lot of other corroborative data on that maybe the most important piece of data is a guy named Harold Malmgren who was a presidential advisor for four different presidents JFK LBJ Nixon and Ford and he says that there was this bluegill triple-prime test in Johnston atoll so in the South Pacific Marshall Islands and that you could even see in that the deck logs from this this test bluegill triple-prime that this anomalous material fell out of the plume of this nuclear blast that UFO material was taken to the Atomic Energy Commission’s Albuquerque outfit and Lawrence P. Geist who’s actually Jeff Bezos’s maternal grandfather was actually the director at the time and Harold Malmgren who is on behalf of JFK is taken to Los Alamos and then JFK comes like a month later and gets woken up on the UFO issue and then you have this letter of kind of controversial provenance but we should really look into this and figure out if this is real where he’s writing to John McCone who is the new CIA director he had just fired Dulles and he’s saying we actually need to coordinate with the Russians or the Soviets on UFOs because we want to make sure that they’re not mistaking these UFOs for acts of American aggression because they’re flying around sensitive airspace so I think a lot of actually you know research lines up to make one believe that JFK did have I mean all that makes sense but when you try and tie it to motive to shoot him in the head in a public place like that’s like what why would you go that far well I think it was a medley probably not the primary reason he was also trying to defang the nuclear arsenal and you had guys like Dulles saying that you know it was an act of patriotism to take him out okay so but you have all these disclosures vis-a-vis Trump who should Trump empower you know there talks of a UAP czar should somebody be in charge here I first of all I love the idea of Tulsi Gabbard is DNI Kash Patel’s fantastic like it’s really exciting I mean people can say what they want about Trump but the people he’s surrounding himself with and what their intentions seem to be are really encouraging and if you need a guy to clean house like dude all he needs to do is he could just give Dave a hunting license to to go after those who might have something to share like it would clear up a lot like Dave Dave Grush yeah yeah like Dave’s your guy he knows what’s going on and he knows where the bodies are buried he knows where the bodies are buried yeah and there we do need some accountability if not only to so that it doesn’t repeat itself like I don’t believe in vengeance but I believe in justice and that’s the subtle difference he and Carl now who is just kind of giga brain next-level historical philosophical thinker and and and just also very high integrity guy mr. Grish finally do you believe that our government is in possession of UAPs absolutely based on interviewing over 40 witnesses over four years are you one of David Grush’s 40 first-hand witnesses that he says he presented to the intelligence community inspector general Thomas Monheim no Dave and I met after his initial complaint was filed with the IC IG and those guys represented a set I don’t know the 40 I know of some of them one of them is the guy who’s no longer with us whose demise was was quite conveniently time for those who might have something to do with it but sorry I didn’t mean to go there with it but no those were that was a different group I’m part of a new group that met Dave in this process you know we were I didn’t know what Dave was doing at the same time we were doing it like we were going to the doctor process at about the same time when we were experiencing our whistleblower transition at the same time Dave was like it was weird like we were both it was both happening at the same time but completely different you remember like Dave is way up here at the shoulder like the high-end administrative end of the Intel and the government’s program I’m down here on the fingertips trying to figure out what’s going on and we ended up meeting in the middle you know in this effort and we should preface this for the audience what is DOBSER so DOBSER is the Department of Defense review process it stands for Department Department of Defense pre-publication and security review so because I held the clearance at one point and because I worked for the Department of Defense anything I say publicly whether it’s written or any oral form written or spoken or videoed or recorded in any way has to go through this process and then what it does allows the DOD and certain offices within DOD to review what I plan on sharing and strike it down if they think it puts if it risks operational security for any of them any specific knowledge I garnered when I was on the other side of the door if I want to talk about that publicly everybody who has had a job like I have has to submit to a thing called DOBSER at the Pentagon DOD pre-publication and security review you know even if it’s about this stuff how the hell did you get approval to speak to us today through DOBSER through the DOD pre-publication approvals I mean the stuff you’re saying is pretty intense yeah and why are they letting you this is a great question because this is gonna help people understand pretty much why I answered the last question the way I did in previous answers is that the DOBSER process is somewhat laughable from what its intent is first of all you have to understand that people like me have become so compartmentalized that we’ve become detached there isn’t even knowledge of some of the things that we have done that that sit at a level of availability to people tasked with publication review at the Department of Defense that they could find to get their hands through and go oh yes like everyone again thinks of this in way too organized of a fashion and I can maybe there’s a good time this will help you understand the DOBSER process because I’ll tell you exactly how we manipulated it when we decided to come forward and we again that was because we had some concerns about who we worked for and their intentions and whether or not we were in trouble and we’re gonna get severed is the hidden hand we decided to query and run an interrogation of the Department of Defense and its private partners by writing a historical fiction novel so I call it faction a mixture of fact and fiction we hired a ghostwriter and what we did is we put all of the claims that we wanted to we wrote out we wrote a hundred and twenty thousand word manuscript and submitted it in pieces to the DOBSER process starting with the first 20 pages which is like 12,000 words and our goal with this process was to it was essentially red team the DOBSER process to expose who subject matter experts are they call them SMEs and determine from that those SMEs trying to lay out some form of map as to who’s actually in control this thing who cares about what information and why and then begin to either push harder and assume that when we hit walls and limitations that secret paths lie on the other edge of those directory and then we can begin to create little fact islands and try and draw a scaffolding between them this was all done through our interrogation effort by creating a manuscript of a historical fiction submitting it to DOBSER in this process the first 20 pages we had four categories of information that we included information a was classified information we knew was classified we knew was classified at a high level and that should get triggered and should get shot down should get redacted information B was information that was classified but was so need to know that it really only existed within the hearts and minds of the operators that were involved that day it shouldn’t be at an admin level for anyone to find or even when shopped out to subject matter experts it would really rough it was a very fine attack that would really precisely illustrate who is concerned with that type of information going public the third type of information we included in that manuscript was open source classified information which might sound like an oxymoron but it’s not there is what is technically considered classified information out on the internet that somehow is leaked out but context matters how and who is using it matters which kind of plays into why someone like Annie Jacobson or another art author who has published incredible things on the subject matter is not subject to the dops are process at all people like me who have held a clearance and have worked directly for the Department of Defense have to go through that process and so we used my that as a basis we use that as our leverage for them to force them to review it and redacted and then there was the fourth type of information which was complete fictional liberty and what we did here is we speculated on the who what why and when of the broader picture outside what we knew through our own compartmented information in our need to know facts and then we draw what we thought were likely reasons and filled in around those facts and connected them to other and we went fishing to see if we could touch on something that was classified and get it redacted and then therefore point towards the SME’s in doing this process we submitted it took six months to get twenty pages back and we had seven pages of redactions from all four categories while and we knew we’re on by game on and so you know they were stuck they can’t they can’t have a poker face they so they’re stuck in this situation where by not redacting something it passes through and now it’s open source by redacting something they are indirectly validating that it is sensitive and it is classified it did really happen and someone’s concerned about it there is a counterplay though and that would be to intentionally allow something that was classified to get out under the context of a fictional novel and therefore internally sealing it with the stamp of the creative writings of a fictional author oh gone and now something that’s reality is now spun into fantasy and that’s where it lives in the public domain and that’s a strategy that that we use commonly I I call it or I’ll say the best place to hide the truth is in a pile of horseshit yep and that’s the best place to deal with it or and you know goes back to Plato where he writes the Republic and he says everything I’m about to tell you is a lie and then he sort of writes this like profound beautiful like musing on like the ideal state but also with some metaphysical implications yeah and I think a lot of UFO history is hidden in plain sight vis-a-vis these fiction books so you have Tom DeLonge like 182 front man writing with Peter LaVenda and AJ Hartley these this whole series of I would say historical faction where he’s dealing with executives at Lockheed Martin and other places and writing about crash retrievals and other things you have another guy named Chase Brandon who’s a CIA liaison to Hollywood he wrote a great book called cryptos conundrum yeah which I believe has some you know real real truth in it and so this is an age-old strategy and it sounds like you read team stops are pretty effectively yeah yeah it worked and they spit it out and then what was funny is they they didn’t like they’re like well our purpose in only submitting 20 pages at the time is we wanted opportunity to evaluate and react and then rewrite the subsequent chapters to probe for more redactions or to probe for more willing willing allowances of classified information and they caught on to us and said we’re done you have to submit your whole manuscript and we were like no these we’re writing like a series and it’s like consider this whole thing a series and these are episodes we are gonna release only 20 pages at a time do you want us to release it without it being reviewed well no no no okay well then we need you to review it and then we’ll give you the next 20 pages because that’s actually this isn’t one book we’re gonna release it four months later so you know you’re in the driver’s seat in that regard because they kind of paint themselves into this corner with the way they work and then you can use that against them which is a red team 101 situation and there’s no distinction for them between fact and fiction where once it’s past stop sir you can now say actually this was fact yeah because you passed it under the veneer of fiction you can still now say this is fact and it’s in its context is King so it’s like what because there are things that got redacted like I said that’s open source I cannot talk at length about organizations I work for when I was enlisted even though like I just told you everything about what I did and where I was stationed and everybody knows the history of who’s there and what’s there I can’t I can’t utter the words I can’t talk to you about my recruitment process at length and how I ended up where I did because that’s that’s redacted as well but this is this is why it’s confusing and why Dave can say we have multiple down craft and have collected dead pilots and like why could you say that it’s because when it goes in to dop sir they distributed they do their they the people at the front read through and they do their best job to disseminate Oh who should we ask about who should care another thing that happens is like no one wants to touch that shit with a ten-foot pole no no office wants to be the guy that says oh yeah I have a problem with Dave saying biologics it’s like you want to pop your head up and like be the SME that has a problem with biologics also people that may have had a problem with it this has to do with turnover and generations existing within these ancient organizations like the fact that this has been going on for 70 years like the people who had whose heads need to roll may not even be alive anymore and someone else has taken that position so this kind of gives them an easy way out they’re not having to come clean and confess the sins of their forefathers all they have to do is allow classified information to not be redacted through the dops are process and they just got disclosure so from this angle I think disclosure is almost on us to realize aha there’s giving us a sign departments and you can’t think of the DoD of the dops are process again is this you people over credit the organizational and the synergy of these institutions the three-letter agencies don’t mean shit like this may be the way the government’s only way to disclose is to like I can’t say it but you can ask me question ask me or yes or no question ask me if something is true and I won’t say no and that’s kind of where we’re at so we need I think the dops are process is one of the keys to disclosure like let’s keep submitting documents and get this stuff out the NHI does not respect the monopoly the US government thinks it has on this subject and there are organizations worldwide that understand that that it’s a worthwhile investment they’re not waiting on offices like arrow or the president United States to tell them they should spend time and money on this it’s being done and there are there are global crash recovery and reverse engineering programs outside the u.s. and I’m not referring to just governments I’m referring to hybrid organizations organizations that are extra governmental listen I’m not here to make anyone believe anything like belief is a very personal thing it’s very personal and the problem with this subject matter is well one it’s very it’s very intense because it carries such profound implications I don’t know that we have any more or less proof per se on this subject for the general public then we do other things that we probably accept more broadly than this subject but it’s because of the implications of this that people want to draw very hard lines on it but man if I think a good place to start is to humble yourself for everyone that’s getting exposed us right now humble yourself from the perspective of what you consider believable and I think a good measure a question to ask is like how much do we currently take wholeheartedly and believe in that we act on every day if I was asked you to remove everything from your life that you believe because someone else told you or you read somewhere or were taught that you don’t have first-hand experience with you’d be paralyzed and speech wouldn’t be able to function you wouldn’t get out of house if everybody had radical Cartesian doubt where it was like I don’t even know that that’s a chair yeah you know what you’re saying is real or whatever it you wouldn’t be able to function when you operate and this is where I just give up on trying to make people believe anything like I don’t have time for that like I’m over it it’s been my life for a long time like I’ve got shit to do yeah and I have things I’m trying to I’m like making people believe is is oh not does not interest what’s extremely easy to sway the public in various ways and put put guardrails on their thinking without them even knowing it yeah and so there’s you know good critical thinking you know this guy Thomas Bayes the statistician from England the 18th century Bayesian Bayesian thought Bayesian reasoning and it’s like new data that you get should be evaluated in the context of your prior database and if your prior database is like every time you hear the word UFO you think snake oil you think yeah throw it in the junk pile you’re building a bad data set like that’s actually bad critical thinking yeah and if you were just open-minded and you read you know this great book UFOs and nukes which nobody can read who I recommend it to because it’s so dry and hard-headed and it’s 580 pages I think you have to come out with some sort of base case around UFOs being real and at least at the very least worthy of investigation yeah I would say the least credible thing in the equation is most people’s basis for belief hmm what do you mean by that that’s the least credible thing is there their basis for belief is not a reasonable isn’t they’re not taking a reasonable approach to their criteria for belief their criteria for that is based on well what are you basing that on like what research have you done yeah that’s right how have you disseminated fact from fiction to arrive at your current understanding how do you know you haven’t been subliminally programmed to be desensitized to one things and hypersensitized in a negative fashion to others and you probably have so you need to be thrown out as someone who should be making decisions for what you believe because your perspectives fucked it’s funny to see after this Sean Ryan story coming out this Las Vegas bomber Cybertruck bomber and from the Trump Tower this bizarre like I don’t know how to describe it it’s like this meme warfare act it’s it’s hard to you know really understand and comprehend and then you have this guy going on Sean Ryan shoemate yeah saying that he received an email from the Green Beret himself the bomber saying that basically there are Chinese gravitic drones flying over the eastern seaboard that could if this is true the payload delivery involved in these warp drive Dravidic drones could vaporize New York City or Washington DC at the drop of a hat and so This is what I find fascinating bring it back to the whole like, you know critical thinking thing I’ve had more high-powered Silicon Valley people hit me up about Oh Antigravity might be real after that. It was just generically popular Yeah and because of that you have people who honestly I Respect in many other contexts as far as their ability to operate make money and do really cool things in the world Coming to me being like, oh, maybe the stuff you did on Townsend Brown You know gravity is real it came it came in to focus in a place They were already directing their attention rather than their intention being brought into where these facts exist It’s just all hypnosis and magic tricks. Yeah. Yeah, the Sean Ryan thing has really been hell for us the last two to three weeks like that’s really touched our community and there’s a lot of ties to that and and our our group of Friends let’s say and that’s been something else and it’s it’s a hot topic, you know, the Touching on the New Jersey thing. We were just out there. We were assigned Assigned to Support the DOD and the FBI task force that was trying to be stood up out there Serving essentially as a hidden hand like we normally are dispatched to try and come in and offer something in order to declare this a hazard to Public safety or to find Criminal intent or criminal actions so that the FBI could have a basis. So Jake, what did you find out? Well, that’s where I’m going. I’m happy to tell you the entire world is Extremely confused. It feels like the highest levels of government are confused as to what is going on Okay, you know our first day there we got there We were primarily focused to the activity in and around or above and around I should say Picatinny Arsenal which is a government weapons Installation weapons focused. Let’s say our weapons centric installation first night there on the ground We get our Opies set up and we’re watching the skies. We’re Organization I work for now one of the founding members of it’s called sky watcher and we specialize in aerial intelligence This is completely autonomous and an independent venture. It’s full of Full of guys like me that have worked in an official capacity for the government we’ve brought our tools and talent and experience and are investing them into this private company and then trying to help the government where we can and also Provide a window for the public into this subject and these technologies. So that being said we show up in New Jersey first night on location Within 30 minutes over Picatinny Arsenal what what what what all these orange orbs come into existence right over Picatinny Arsenal Trying to do time stamps on how long they were there was difficult because it would appeared about 40 40 45 minutes at a time, which is consistent with some traditional large battery-powered drones, but what we can’t tell is if that was the same drone or it was Disappearing and reappearing and that was the sensational language that was used more often what it could mean is that they were turning their lights off and on and that’s why they were disappearing and reappearing, but They only at night only at night for us. It was a between like 1700 and midnight so from five o’clock until about midnight is when we monitored or captured most the activity and so you know The problem with that whole thing out there is most of the Data being collected and the reports were coming in were from unqualified observers on the ground using visual spectrum So what I mean by that is humans looking up with their eyes and going bro. What’s that? It’s also a very busy airspace around there. So there’s airplanes. There’s helicopters I mean if you really wanted to red team that situation what I would have done is I would have put a bunch of glow sticks and helium balloons and tied them together and then sent them up in the air and watch people just lose their shit because you you wouldn’t been able to discern and then you Shoot them with you know BB guns until they pop and disappear like there’s so much room for fuckery in that situation that you It’s hard to cut through the noise what we were observing because we are qualified observers was not fuckery There’s something very concerning over Picatinny Arsenal. So the first thing we looked at was okay. These are probably large like Drones that we know the classes of they’re available out there in military inventory and in some civilian inventory that was turning off its lights in route and then on RTB and Which is illegal, so there’s our case for breaking laws right there if this was in FAA controlled airspace When a drone leaves the ground first of all UAS an unmanned aerial system has to have all the FAA approved lighting systems that any other aircraft does and it has to have them On when it leaves the ground, it’s also limited You have to be a licensed operator and you’re not allowed to fly above 400 feet These were lights off over 400 feet over Picatinny Arsenal just sitting there No one’s doing shit about it and weren’t they sitting there for five hours plus sometimes sometimes longer and then so but we still Don’t know if it was just lights going off or they’re popping into place because while this is going on in The airspace south of there. We also were running a program. That’s more We were running operations. Let’s say that’s more More attuned for the UAP the the unidentifiable Phenomenon and we had UAP class stuff popping up To the south of there cutting in from the outer atmosphere and hovering into place and going back into space What do you mean you were running operations more attuned to the UAP? We were looking for that We were expecting that looking for that and making sure we were paying attention for things that fit. Got it the box of possibly being Well and UAP is a very safe word UAP is the words are very you should say UAP more often because it means unidentified Anomalous phenomenon, I mean, I know you get I don’t know how that becomes as concrete as if there’s aliens and spaceships flying around it’s the opposite of clear or Conclusive. Yeah, so UAP is should be a safe word. So yes, it was UAP and we were looking for UAP We’re looking specifically for things that we couldn’t identify and clearly didn’t fit into a box The the following nights our plan was to get Airborne and in our helicopter and get a closer look Legally under the guidance of the FAA’s air traffic control What was interesting about the situation is that there was a TFR set up? over Picatinny Arsenal a month prior like before Thanksgiving and The TFR is a temporary flight restriction, which is turns any airspace into highly restricted airspace on a case-by-case basis and so someone Had the foresight or the Reasoning to set up a TFR to restrict drone activity over Picatinny Arsenal weeks before Thanksgiving We’re there, you know around Christmas or a little before Christmas. So this has been going on for a month in the area and What’s interesting about this TFR is it didn’t restrict general aviation traffic and only restrict UAS unmanned aerial systems So what that means is any member of the general public who got in their civilian aircraft with the pilot’s license could fly through That TFR with no restrictions, but a drone could not so they were carving out for drones Well, the problem there is an aircraft could have an incursion with these drones So everyone was pretending weren’t there and was ignoring it and now you have an accident or an incident Which is a safety risk and when you get into safety risks for things that fly around in the air things get serious really quick and that was The biggest problem and the biggest thing that wasn’t being addressed that we were trying to make sure people were paying attention to was that? To say there’s no public risk. That’s a really low-hanging fruit Not the most exciting detail to anchor to in this thing But it’s an anchor point where we could start digging and forcing people to give more concise reports from the DOD side From the local law enforcement agencies Because nobody was working together there. There were over 59 local law enforcement entities working not coordinating there we had FBI we had DOD we had private partners on Picatinny Some from legacy programs that That are very popular were there with their very fancy tools and toys. Everyone’s doing their own thing Were you called in specifically because of your UAP retrieval experience I Wouldn’t say my retrieval experience per se but our team of guys We’re second to none and I’m not being overly proud and saying that so we were brought in More so on the behalf of DOD to help take a look at things and and really contribute any way we can but we found There was a lot of there wasn’t a lot of coordination going on the powers that be that be Really don’t know what’s going on or very few do and they’re clearly not communicating with the rest of Our leadership and the public. I mean, it’s a great sample of Why this whole thing is so confusing is the New Jersey drone incident. What did Trump mean when he said? It’s probably not adversary. We know where the garage is We could go into the garage our military knows where they took off from If it’s a garage, they can go right into that garage. They know where it came from and where it went You’re asking me to know what Trump means You’re just asking another guy that’s Watching that on his phone like you so what was your net assessment just for the average per net assessment is really confused Based on what we know from previous incursions that MacDill and Langley Air Force Base this year as well Yeah that there were Chinese nationals that were taken into custody that’s a very big problem because if they are state actors and They are it’s an act of war. And so how do we respond to an act of war? Like there are no good options because either we look weak and vulnerable because we don’t respond or we do respond in what now reward with China which the world cannot afford so There’s there’s there’s a counterplay now if I was if I was a red team member when I look at it this lens what I? Would do if I was working if I if America was my adversary. I would fake a Chinese Invasion it would be a false flag. I would make it look like China was Doing this and I would hire, you know, the billions of people that live in China aren’t all singing the same song There’s plenty of disgruntled people there that are for hire that work for other organizations worldwide And our criminals in other capacities that aren’t in a line with with China’s intentions So I would I would hire a Chinese national or someone from China and Deploy them to make it look like China was Causing the incursion in order to start a war with the u.s. For for a number of nefarious purposes So it could have been a false flag like that The biggest problem with shooting them down everyone’s like why don’t you just shoot them down? Well, this is pointed out a vulnerability We’ve known for a very long time with why there’s a whole category of contracting in the u.s Called see uas or counter uas systems is because drone incursions are a problem because you can’t shoot them down Because where they are most likely a problem is over highly populated area like here Dodger Stadium Let’s say you can’t just shoot them down because then now they’re gonna fall and cause damage to people and property So, what do you do? Like you really can’t do anything unless you can chase down who’s operating them and take them into custody Okay. Okay. But do you think any of these were genuine non-human intelligence any of these drones you mentioned the Chinese? Yes Okay, I do. And so why do you think that because of The way they transitioned in didn’t try and transitioned out Because of indications we got within our Our observation operations the way we observe and collect data That would be my guess is I do think that there was a an NH NH I component To this combined which is what makes it really confusing You know, the biggest mystery of this whole thing is the mystery like there shouldn’t be a mystery. This is a very simple thing There’s something in the sky go figure out what it is. Find out who’s flying it. It’s over day one, right? This continues to happen over and over again, and we still are pretending like we’re confused which points to something that is far superior to us technologically that is ephemeral or weakly entangled with our reality and Popping in and out and not something that is easily or prosaically understood and in the case I think what makes this so confusing is in the case of the Chinese You would get probably our state-of-the-art drones Around there as well. We throw those out. You’re kind of detect. Yeah, and so you you end up with this extremely Kind of fuzzy mixed bag where it’s much easier Again, I don’t want to beat beat up on Sean Ryan I think he’s actually an amazing guy, but like you have him retweeting that like maybe there’s like this You know loose nuke on the eastern seaboard. I was freaking out. I was texting Logan And then I there’s something easier about that narrative cleaner about that narrative Then it’s actually just this complicated mix of non-human intelligence and people don’t like dress. We want black and white and you know, Sean is Just as vulnerable to that as we all are I could tell you it wasn’t loose nukes And why I know that for sure is because I know people that work on the net And I also know people that work for the W the Weapons of Mass Destruction Directive under the Department of the FBI they were there their families were there They weren’t like get the fuck out of Dodge like there’s a loose nuke so they wouldn’t have had their kids there They wouldn’t have been like going to Target and buying churros like no they were there They were there to protect their kids and they were there to protect their families They were there to protect their kids and they were there to protect their families So they wouldn’t have had their kids there they wouldn’t have been like going to Target and buying churros like no they were right They were chilling out. All right, so they weren’t worried about a loose nuke at that time So and you really have to look that practically We’re going through this major shift where we’re realizing we can’t trust our Institutions we can’t trust the narrative that’s being presented and people don’t know how to respond to that and I feel really bad for like like Baby boom the good baby boomers because they’re getting like vilified so much But like my in-laws the sweetest old people like they’ve trusted the news and newspaper their whole life. They’ve trusted offices of the president and It’s real dangerous because there’s this calling to like throw it all out like get rid of all of our institutions Get rid of the government and that’s not the answer what what this needs to be is a call to action for all brave Well-rounded people with work ethic and a deep sense of meaning to start occupying positions within institutions and offices like we just need to occupy these positions of power and seize our institutions and this is everything from like the you know the Catholic Church to the World Health Organization organization to Police departments like so many good people I know that our cops are like screw this especially around the George Floyd incident and all the fallout from defund the police are like I’m retiring. I’m good now like okay we’re just gonna turn the police department over to those who would work under these conditions and These new standards of like you don’t have to be able to do a pull-up or run, right? Like you can be overweight and like and try and like protect and serve No, and so and same in the military. So many people have gotten out because of how How why maybe the spirit of D E I or some like to rearrange it D IE because it’s it’s a death sentence But the spirit of that makes sense to all good people like everyone else in the military Absolutely is here to risk our life so that you can be free to say whatever you want and orient yourself sexually with everyone But it’s being gone about the wrong way and so people are punching out and that’s the last thing we want to do we have to you if you want if you’re willing to sacrifice your life in some Glorified sexy way of like jumping on a grenade for your buddy and having an awesome funeral well, then be willing to put up with an environment that rubs you the wrong way like stay in your sacrifice is more nuanced than the glory of a Fantastic death you need to stay in your job and put up with Political HR shit and occupy positions of leadership and then make changes. That’s the only way this works That is a beautiful and not nihilistic Message to a lot of people who I think have felt Cheated by the establishment and institutions over decades And I do think often the blame gets sometimes fairly sometimes unfairly pinned on the baby boomers And so I mean, yeah, it’s important to not throw the baby out with the bathwater the foot the final thing I think we should just talk about on the New Jersey drone thing and then I think we should move on is on the point of good critical thinking These quote-unquote drones seem to be showing up consistently around sensitive military sites and all over the world Not just in New Jersey. So Picatinny Arsenal’s one place. That’s where they initially seem to show up, but you have Lake and Heath you have Salem nuclear power plant in Jersey you have Brunswick, you know Duke Energy power plant in North Carolina And this just totally comports with Robert Hastings work. Yeah on UFOs and new Yeah, I do think it’s important to put this in its proper context Then what we’re seeing today if you actually have that context is probably what we’ve seen historically you have historically UFO flaps historically Yes, it’s just ridiculous that it’s happening now and that we don’t know how to respond to it We don’t know how to discern what it is And the drones even if let’s say it’s drones that would still freak people out I Mean you could go you could even YouTube you don’t even have to go but if you’ve ever been to like a Tech trade show where someone like GM or Chrysler is like showing their new prototype for a flying car Which is essentially a quadcopter just like sleeked out It’s incredibly it looks crazy and it’s a real thing that you could hop in and fly it right now And there’s no reason another nation or some autonomous organization That’s based out of Mexico where doesn’t have to follow US laws like some billionaire Couldn’t put together a plan to get off the off the shore of New Jersey in the Atlantic Ocean and launch a bunch of these And some of them can launch off the water They could go from the water not under but from the water to the sky and it and it looks like something out of you Know historically would like a movie. Are there underwater? UFO bases I Would think so. Yeah Yeah That seems to be the case. Yeah Interested. This was part of the challenge of my journey and how it took me a long time To get to the point to where I realized, you know What we’re dealing with is NHI versus our own advanced technology because there is a spectrum I mean we’ve kind of filled the gap at least from an ignorant standpoint unless you have the right way to analyze what you’re observing and I use those terms broadly because we there’s So much more than a human looking up with with like ultraviolet sensing eyeballs Like there’s more than that and so but there’s such a spectrum that it is it is hard to discern There’s a lot of belief involved I Want to put my cynic hat on for a second do it and ask some audience surrogate questions because I think a lot of people are probably just Freaked out a little ontologically shocked at some of these claims. So there’s this conspiracy theory called project blue beam There are people out there that think that This is all being orchestrated by the deep state that these orbs or crafts will show up It’ll be an auspice for which to clamp down and create a surveillance state or to create some fake You know Antichrist like religious awakening. Yeah, that is, you know, completely a sham Do you have anything to say to that? there has been an organized and an unorganized effort on behalf of the US government to To disclose some of this stuff. I mean as early as I mean as recent as like 2015-16. I mean a tip was certainly part of that effort But Like I don’t think that should be looked at negatively. I mean Those who are the gatekeepers or those who are holding these secrets or have the power to release it Let’s say first of all, it’s not one group. It’s multiple. Like what would you want them to do with it? Like we can’t complain that we’re they’re not telling us anything or they’re putting out some organized Disclosure program and soft-serving it to us. I think I think that well, first of all that has been done and Whether or not that’s a bad idea or not, I don’t know So I think the philosophical question that naturally arises here is you are Implementing techniques that seem like you’re almost tapping into this sacred other spiritual world Hmm, but you’re sort of doing it on behalf of American defense Obviously you’ve shown that your loyalty transcends just pure Organizational expedience and realizing that this is actually bad for the country the way this thing was set up But what about? loyalty above that even yes metaphysical loyalty loyalty to God and if these things are angels or celestial creatures How do you square the fact that? We’re moving in kind of celestial realms, but we’re kind of you know Using the frame of American defense with all of this stuff. Yeah, that’s a fun question. And We’re all forced to consider it once you get to this point like the angels and demons Idea, I think is a good place to kind of orient The idea of what we’re dealing with Because there certainly is good energy and bad energy at play. My experience has been I Would say a hundred percent good energy like profoundly good for so for whatever reason If this if this is an atypical experience, or if it only represents one half of of the experiences people have with the NHI energy That’s fine, but mine has been unbelievably Positive and has been life-changing and has guided me and given me orientation and motivation and clarity It’s it gives me so many things. It’s like being tapped into Something like a guiding guiding light or a guiding light like a guiding guiding light or an omnipresent God that has your best will at heart, but The question comes up often in our circle of friends, let’s say The question of are these things or is this phenomenon Benevolent or malevolent and the answer is yes Because much like us they’re both we have the capacity for both good and evil and it just Since we’re talking philosophically and beyond like the universe itself has a pretty consistent Set of elements and structure that we’ve already observed So to think that there’s something like good and evil that exists throughout all domains and dimensions and distances Makes a lot of sense It would also explain a lot of what we’re hearing through the echoes of history Related to the phenomenon angels and demons so that makes a lot of sense and It’s important to not be naive and assume that there’s no reason to be worried about a higher life-form or a more Technologically advanced life-form or a more dominant life-form Let’s just put it that way whether it’s it lives in our three-dimensional space or it’s extra dimensional It could be a real problem, which is why like on one hand For better or for worse the government is the primary custodian on this knowledge and this hardware and They’re they’re the hammer that identifies everything as a nail there there are military-based organization So they’re going to look for Advantages for offense and defense and You know, it’s easy to point fingers and say that’s disgusting and this should be about love but that’s not the way the world works and The freedom we experience and I I’m qualified to speak on this from both sides like I’m a human I have love in my heart I’m open-minded. I’m caring. I’m sensitive, but I’m also a trained soldier And so I understand the value of that and we live in the benefits that have been provided to us from a military state from a military dominance on this planet and To assume to take that for granted is very unwise So, you know, it’s like the good analogies like a kitchen knife Kitchen knife could be used to make beautiful food for your family It could be used to defend yourself or to maliciously kill another human is a knife good or bad it’s the intention of The being wielding it that makes the difference this brings up the next logical question which is that the OSAP program which ran from 2007 to 2012 under the auspices of Harry Reid a lot of these guys were Digging holes and looking into kind of exotic weaponry and they were doing it on skinwalker ranch And a lot of them reported this quote-unquote hitchhiker effect Yeah, and so all sorts of orbs and but honestly hauntings like really paranormal bad day It’s like as if they played with a Ouija board Following them home. Mm-hmm. And so it does seem like what you put in is what you get out It’s like that new radicals on, you know, you get what you give Yeah, and so that might be part of it. Seek what seek and you shall find. Yeah, and so I Am also of the mind that protecting the free world is not something we can take for granted And so my hope is that whatever good NHI, you know are there like agree with that and then at the same time if you’re antagonizing any of the good NHI and They’re just actually just superior to us. I worry about that somewhat and if you’re doing it in the name of Country, but your country doesn’t always act in the best possible way. I mean that the You mentioned the term false flag before. Yeah, the history of American foreign policy is not the history of Perfect, you know Moral alignment with with the higher good. No, it’s means the ends justified by me often often and so Yeah, how do you how do you think about all that going forward? Man I Think we should decentralize the ideas and what I mean by that is One thing I hope comes of all of this is we encourage every individual to start looking into answering this question themselves Not only by just doing your own research online but Inside don’t look inside as much as looking out walk outside. Look to the sky try doing something like praying you don’t have to pray come up with another word for it if that’s too like There’s too much like Judeo-christian Stigma with that word like Walk outside look at the sky open your heart and ask for the good energy the universe to show something to you And it’s that simple like Stuff can happen in our experience just by doing that you talk about the hitchhiker effect And I’ve shared that most of my experience has been positive But I haven’t shared that stuff has followed me home and that my family sees it We have stuff show up over our house. We have a UAP we call the angel that shows up and it looks like it has or wings It’s blue and it comes in materializes hangs out over the house. It’s seen by neighbors It’s seen by everybody and then it’s gone It’s you outer space the the classic the wings that describes a seraphim, you know Like an ancient kind of Hebraic Angel and so I mean it makes sense like and that’s the first time we saw it My son saw we thought it was cloud and it’s like there’s not a cloud in the sky but it seemed cloudy around this thing, but it had like It had like wings. It was blue and it had like More like butterfly wings than like what we’ve seen like anything that that that’s somehow protecting you or good Or it it feels like a good energy like we can feel that energy I got in the aircraft that night is that same energy I get I mean it puts my my son in tears What’s like and he’s not afraid like he’s moved and It’s incredible. So like how do you explain that? That’s a good way to to maybe If you want to start being your own little amateur scientist if you walk outside and you open your heart To the good spirit of the universe and you ask for something specific It seems like a silly exercise and something happens. Let’s say you did a craft Did you just summon advanced human technology did Edwards Air Force dispatch dispatch an aircraft and hovered over your house Probably not. So it’s probably more likely like there’s something anomalous or NHI based with that Situation then, you know, do you think that the inner outer dichotomy is a false one and that these things are somehow Excavations of what’s inside of you and maybe future science is actually a more spiritual science There’s this 19th century Austrian philosopher named Rudolf Steiner who talks about? Anthroposophy where it’s studying the inner in order to Garner mastery over the outer world. That was what alchemy was all about as well. I Think it’s all on the table now That’s like that’s what’s fun, but also crazy about this is like there’s so much on the table There’s so much to be explored and this is what I appreciate about Gary, dr. Nolan’s attitude is that he he thinks this is the greatest moment ever for science not like Something that’s ridiculous. Well, I think what’s beautiful about it. Is it since the Enlightenment? science and the spirit have cleaved off and bifurcated and If you were to go back to Francis Bacon He would say I am using the scientific method was back then, you know more empirical skepticism It wasn’t called that at the time But I’m using that in order to discover God’s secrets and since then you now you have like, you know, Richard Dawkins He’s like this, you know extremely, you know It’s just atheist and he sort of you know disrespects anybody that believes and then on the other side you have Religious fundamentalists who don’t take science super seriously and will like throw Darwin out like it like isn’t even an effective local Yeah, which is probably you know, it’s probably has some use as a theory no, I love that point because it’s it’s something like the the beauty of white a Children a child could ask why infinitely and it can annoy an adult It’s like why why why because you can track that and the fact that you can’t put a lid on it or dead in that line of questioning means that there’s something that adult is missing in that scenario and that’s the way I see the approach of the Scientific method or thinking that the I that the pursuit of science is somehow Is askew to the pursuit of God because even within the scientific method? Where did that come from? And why was it created? Why do you think it’s worthwhile to have a method to objectively evaluate your environment? You would have to believe that it leads to a what you consider a good outcome Now that leads to the next question of well What what is a good outcome and why do you care about what good is? Totally you so you can’t get away even in this this high horse of Science and the scientific method from the pursuit of science because if you’re a scientist, it’s because you love science You want you have interest and an intuition that it’s that going down this road Objectively through the method is going to lead to something worthwhile for you and you just loop right back around to Understanding that you were seeking something good and worthwhile. And where does that come from? Yeah, and maybe science and religion are you know? bottoms of the pyramid and if you ascend you get to some Omega point at the top where they meet and There’s a great Meister Eckhart quote Theologians may quarrel but mystics all speak the same language and I do think if you are just Intaking information in search of the truth. I think that’s that’s a that’s a process that is agnostic you know science is one method religion is another but We’re all sort of seeking some some sort of outcome and in Jesus even says in the book of Mark He says some I’m paraphrasing, but it’s something like what you measure you’ll get more of and so It’s where you point your attention and intention And that seems to be something that is consistent with the phenomena when you talk about attracting the good or the evil spirits I mean make no mistake there have been dark things that have happened within CR CR to other groups. Yeah to other groups and I’m not going to talk about that. But just It doesn’t mean though Those who hate talking about it this way, yeah in in the UAP culture Don’t want us talking about the negative want us to focus on the positive it’s because they think that that means our behavior should change, but it’s it’s complex like anything like it’s The the good still exists even though there’s bad, but you can’t you have to acknowledge that there are there are dangers associated With it if you’re an audience member at this point, I think you’re probably wondering you’re having a burning question, which is What about space aliens? This all seems to be talk of spirituality inner outer orbs that sort of thing Where do we have any evidence that these things come from other planets? I don’t know I’ll I’ll give you one piece of information that people may have gotten out of the stuff that’s come out the last couple of years This will help and it may not be the answer everyone wants, but you know, there’s a reason we use the term biologics and There’s a reason Dave really hung his hat on that Phrase every time he used it. That’s because Biologics didn’t doesn’t necessarily mean sentient beings or conscious creatures, it could be something like A drone from another place like we do we send our drones We have like Sagan sent Voyager out like we’ve all done these things or not We’ve all but our government has done many drone programs Mars rovers, etc So the biologics could be something like soft tissue drones while some of the biological Cargo that comes with these craft Is not conscious Consciousness itself is how you interact and pilot the craft which is ironic because for the first time ever The biological creatures inside are not conscious, but the craft is well, it’s funny You say that DARPA at this very moment is looking into a field called computational biology, and we’re looking at you know How do we? Manipulate the biological world Create an anatomical compiler if you will and we’re starting to understand how cells operate on a more granular level and so You’d have to think some civilization either on another planet or ours With a lot more time energy and expertise maybe has figured out something like that and that brings me to my next question, which is a lot of people talk about being abducted by these gray aliens and a lot of the people who describe them as Abducted by these gray aliens and a lot of the people who describe these abductions Say that the gray aliens are sort of droid like robotic Creatures that seem to be sent almost as like messengers where they’re doing these specific retrievals and insertions So insertions of you know implants and then retrievals of gametes genetic material that sort of thing Yeah, do you have any take on any of this stuff man that stuff? First of all, I have zero experience with gray or beings or meeting something face-to-face. I’d love to do it It sounds fun to me Sign me up but I mean it’s crazy as it sounds the most trusted people in my circle that I will have worked with and do work with and Have those Speak to having those first-hand experiences with and so it’s like what do you do with that? And now I’m in the now I’m in the seat of well, where’s the proof like no I want to believe that like how can I get there and I can’t because that’s where it’s like I understand where people are taking my information and trying to get there with me and you just can’t I just can’t get there But it’s it’s awfully intriguing because I believe that they believe that that happened and There are reports that we do have biologics and storage and we just don’t know what that is but this is all the more reason like why I’m excited to like Move forward in this new venture and the fact that we have we have created our own Autonomy and that we’re going out. We have a budget we’re operating and we’re we’re in a public-private partnership And I hope to answer all these questions If all things go well Before I’m trying not to say a date, but within the first half of 2025 we hope to do a demonstration and And invite key members of the public from institutions and demonstrate this and maybe even get something to the ground if we can do it legally in coordination with Our government partners, which we have to do. We can’t just go rogue and do this without them They have to be involved But it is likely that we’ll have an opportunity to do that and that’s gonna answer a lot of questions That would be absolutely insane. Look man, like the skies aren’t classified your conscious can’t be redacted So get out there and start looking up start looking in No, yeah, that’s part of the reason I’m here is because you know I just became a dad a dad of a daughter’s three months old and I look at this little lady and I I feel like This responsibility for for helping at least to shape a positive world that heads towards progression in the right direction and I think disclosure is a much bigger conversation that will open a lot of people’s eyes one thing you said to me on or us on the on the first phone call we had is You know people talk about this feeling of ontological shock Where it’s like it’s really hard for a lot of people to face the reality that their entire worldview is being challenged And I certainly felt that but one thing you said that I liked was You like to think of it as ontological relief. Yeah, where it’s like actually Some of the questions about like when I look up in the sky, it’s like what what am I? What are we? How are we here? You know at least There’s like a like some semblance of answers or Something a little more that’s explained That that actually makes me go, huh? All right, it’s making a little bit more sense than than it was before Yeah, no, and it’s something like giving up atheism when you become a parent because you’re like This can’t be all I can’t be the smartest person in the room. I can’t be the richest or most influence Influential person in the room. I can’t be the most powerful person in the room This is for the president when he goes to sleep at night like I’m not qualified like I need there to be more I need there to be deeper meaning. I need there to be more connection between us I because every person even the bad guys that we run into in life at one time we’re just an innocent little baby, and there’s something sweet and Meaningful in every human and that’s what this whole thing offers like is this woo-woo as that sounds like that’s the the best thing that could be harvested by Acknowledging this and it’s got this this cold military political industrial Like stigma attached to it, but that’s not it. It’s not about like flying equipment like oh Can we get in a flying saucer and like get to London in two minutes Or could we get there yesterday because now we know like screw all that the real implications are way more powerful And it’s it’s realizing that there is something else out there. That’s maybe not extra at all It’s something that’s part of us. It’s like outer space versus inner space is all the same and so that I hope there’s something really beautiful On the other side of this which is why we need more people involved we need Religious communities involved we need like We need the leftists most tree-hugging spiritual people to get into this thing That’s been controlled, and it’s been locked up by the most like tyrannical right-wing leaning people this is to me one of the most important stories in Millennium let alone a century because it should make everybody question Core ontological truths and like you said hopefully open their eyes to a broader reality That is I think expansive and exciting so Wow. Thank you, man Well, thank you the pleasures mine, and let’s make sure we get this out there So that future generations aren’t having to rediscover this thing all over again. Let’s do it Huge news everyone we’ve been sitting on a ton of unreleased footage that we will now be releasing weekly in our new WAP our first episode is a completely uncut heated discussion between Hal Puthoff and Eric Weinstein on remote viewing Yeah, you heard that right. I still can’t believe I experienced that firsthand and now I’m happy to share it with you all as our First exclusive video on WAP head over to WAP.com and click on the link in the description Head over to WAP.com slash American alchemy premium to become a premium member today by becoming a member You’ll gain access to weekly premium videos behind-the-scenes footage and monthly group calls where we discuss the ideas We love most plus you’ll get early access to merchandise drops and be the first to know about the upcoming Conference will be holding later in 2025 our WAP community will serve as a private space where curious Individuals and tech enthusiasts can come together to challenge the status quo and explore ideas Shaping our future if you’re passionate about exploring Unconventional ideas and want to dive even deeper into our content I invite you to join our WAP today head over to WAP.com slash American alchemy premium to become a premium member today You

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Jesse Michels — “I Retrieved a UFO With My Helicopter!” (Jake Barber), Jan 30 2025

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