UFOpedia

bigelow-knapp-mysterywire-pt2-2021-02-05

60 min read

Robert Bigelow — interview with George Knapp (Mystery Wire), Feb 5, 2021 — Part 2 of 2

  • YouTube: https://youtu.be/9Sv66dG6Ldc
  • Extraction: youtube_transcript.py (auto-captions, timestamps), 2026-06-19
  • Part 1: bigelow-knapp-mysterywire-2021-02-05 (the consciousness backstory, NIDS, Skinwalker purchase)
  • Significance: Bigelow in his own words, post-60-Minutes. Primary for bigelow-aerospace-enabler.
  • Covers (verbatim below): the DIA scientist’s (Lacatski) customized Skinwalker sighting; the AAWSAP origin (Reid, Senators Inouye and Stevens, the competition BAASS won, Reid attending NIDS meetings); the “religious peculiarity” he says defunded the program; SAPs and presidential non-knowledge; the NYT-2017 corrections (the $22M was his OAP/BAASS program, broader than UFOs; Elizondo “didn’t play a role”; he never possessed recovered material); his “machinery really does exist” / back-engineering-needs-weightlessness view; weaponization and Manhattan-Project framing; hiring a Nimitz tic-tac pilot (2008); his wife’s death (19 Feb 2020) and the post-death “demonstrations”; and BICS (the Bigelow Institute for Consciousness Studies essay contest — $500k/$300k/$150k, beyond-reasonable-doubt standard, five judges).

[00:00:00.000] mysterywire.com, [00:00:02.000] home of the unusual and unknown. From [00:00:04.480] Area 51 to the paranormal, it’s your [00:00:06.879] source to [music] the most vetted UFO [00:00:08.559] stories and special investigations in [00:00:10.400] the world. Take a journey into the [00:00:12.480] universe of mysterywire.com. [00:00:15.759] Things die down at the ranch. You’re in [00:00:18.400] caretaker status. You have security on [00:00:20.240] the property and they continue to [00:00:21.920] collect uh uh stories and incidents and [00:00:24.400] things like that. But um then a new [00:00:26.800] opportunity comes along because of the [00:00:28.880] the notoriety of the property gets out [00:00:31.199] there uh and a scientist from the DIA [00:00:34.719] contacts you [00:00:35.920] and it starts a new chapter. [00:00:37.440] Yeah. [00:00:38.719] Which I didn’t believe him. [00:00:40.079] No. And he assumed I wouldn’t believe [00:00:42.239] him, you know. So he said, “Okay, here’s [00:00:44.719] my credentials. Here’s who I am. Call [00:00:46.239] me. Call it can find out.” Which of [00:00:48.480] course I did. And sure enough, he was [00:00:50.800] real, you know. He he uh he was real and [00:00:54.399] he’s a great guy. He he is just [00:00:57.520] genuinely I’m glad that our country uh [00:01:00.480] is able to hire people like him. [00:01:04.159] He says, “Hey, I’m interested in the [00:01:05.760] property. I’d like to go see it.” And [00:01:08.080] then he he comes out to meet you and you [00:01:10.000] go together. [00:01:12.320] Yeah. Yeah. and [clears throat] he had [00:01:13.920] done his homework because um he [00:01:16.799] recognized from the air from the air in [00:01:19.200] my plane we when we were starting to get [00:01:21.439] close to the ranch. So he had seen [00:01:23.600] photos uh aerial photos of some kind uh [00:01:27.520] about the property and he said, “Oh, [00:01:29.200] we’re getting close, you know.” So So [00:01:32.880] you go there, you meet the he meets the [00:01:35.280] property managers, the husband and wife. [00:01:38.159] Yeah. [00:01:38.479] Walks around the property with you. you [00:01:40.159] tell them where things have happened and [00:01:41.526] [clears throat] [00:01:42.000] he not very not much of a tour. Um, we [00:01:46.320] were probably on property, George, all [00:01:49.280] together [00:01:52.720] maybe maybe 45 minutes, an hour at the [00:01:55.360] very most, an hour at the very most, but [00:01:58.240] I would say like more like 45 minutes. [00:02:01.200] And he had a [snorts] customized [00:02:04.240] exhibition for him by the phenomena. [00:02:09.280] We go inside the manager’s house, which [00:02:11.760] was Terry Sherman’s house, and now was [00:02:15.200] Jean Richard’s house and our new [00:02:18.080] managers, cuz this is much later after [00:02:20.959] Terry and and his wife left. And so we [00:02:25.200] go in there and we sit at their their [00:02:27.599] little dining room off the living room [00:02:30.480] in the small house. And there’s a [00:02:31.920] kitchen over here, too. And so we’re [00:02:34.800] sitting north,southeast, west around the [00:02:36.959] table. [00:02:40.720] And so [00:02:42.800] the visit’s over and we get back on the [00:02:44.879] plane and he says to me, he says, “Uh, [00:02:48.560] when we were sitting there at the in the [00:02:50.560] dining room, did you see anything?” I [00:02:53.360] said, “Well, no, because you know, [00:02:55.680] somebody’s sitting here and here and [00:02:57.120] somebody sitting here and here. So you [00:02:59.200] have this kind of views going on. You [00:03:01.840] have views this way and views this way, [00:03:04.080] right? Mostly is what you’re looking. [00:03:06.640] you know, you’re not looking behind you. [00:03:08.560] Somebody across from you is seeing [00:03:10.400] what’s going on behind you, right? [00:03:14.080] So, his perspective was being able to [00:03:16.319] see what was going on behind the person [00:03:18.319] like you and I are across from each [00:03:19.920] other right now and I can see behind you [00:03:22.080] what’s going on. And that was his [00:03:24.480] perspective. [00:03:26.720] No, I hadn’t seen anything. I told him [00:03:29.760] it’s okay. [00:03:31.760] Finally after a while he starts he says [00:03:35.040] well I saw something. [00:03:37.360] Oh well gradually over days [00:03:42.400] he’s loosening up and telling me about [00:03:44.400] what it is that he saw. [00:03:48.000] Well he saw something that was [00:03:52.319] elevated off the floor. Wasn’t supported [00:03:55.760] by anything [00:03:57.840] and it was rotating. [00:04:00.720] So, and and it was tubular [00:04:04.959] and and I got this over a period of time [00:04:07.840] cuz he wouldn’t fess up and talk about [00:04:10.319] it like it was a state friaking secret, [00:04:14.319] you know. Well, hell, you know, just an [00:04:16.079] observation on the ranch. Big deal. [00:04:17.919] Just, you know, we all have these [00:04:19.440] things. Tell us what’s going on, you [00:04:21.680] know. But he kept it very close to his [00:04:24.240] vest for quite a long time, for for days [00:04:26.960] and days, weeks. And so finally uh it [00:04:30.880] had it was an object that wasn’t [00:04:32.240] supported by anything [00:04:34.639] floating in the air. [00:04:35.280] It was in the kitchen. [00:04:36.240] Yeah. [00:04:36.800] Which is right behind his line of sight [00:04:39.520] and it was tubular. And there was a rock [00:04:43.759] group that had an album called Tubular [00:04:47.520] Bells. [00:04:47.919] Yeah. Mike Oldfield. Yeah. [00:04:49.440] Okay. And Yeah. And so that was on the [00:04:53.280] cover apparently. and he said, “That’s [00:04:56.000] the closest thing I can come to as to [00:04:58.479] what the structure of this looked like.” [00:05:02.560] So, [00:05:03.040] so it was it was George. He was there [00:05:06.000] for 45 minutes. This thing was [00:05:08.880] customized for him. [00:05:10.639] It decided it wanted him to see [00:05:12.320] something. [00:05:13.039] Yeah, exactly. I I mean, we couldn’t [00:05:14.720] have done anything to be more impactful [00:05:17.680] if we tried if we had tried to concoct [00:05:19.919] something up. There’s nothing that could [00:05:21.440] have been more impactful for him to be [00:05:23.600] able to see this at close range. This [00:05:25.840] was probably like oh maybe 11 feet from [00:05:30.320] him, you know, 10 12 feet away at the [00:05:34.560] most. So close. [00:05:36.160] So did he pitch you the idea of a study [00:05:39.280] of a program then or did he go back to [00:05:41.759] Washington, talk to Harry Reid and then [00:05:43.759] proceed from there? How what’s the [00:05:45.680] process there? [00:05:48.400] Well, [clears throat] [00:05:49.120] um [00:05:55.680] it was it evolved um [00:06:00.160] using uh the three of us [00:06:04.400] uh Harry and this other fellow. I [00:06:07.840] probably shouldn’t mention his name and [00:06:10.639] not not yet [00:06:11.600] and myself. And Harry was was very [00:06:14.664] [clears throat] brave for being a [00:06:16.479] politician. [00:06:18.000] He had a lot of balls to be able to take [00:06:20.319] this on and say, “Okay, I’m fascinated [00:06:23.840] enough to where I’m going to get [00:06:25.360] involved here and, uh, see what we can [00:06:28.639] do to turn this into a program.” And so, [00:06:33.520] uh, it was, [clears throat and snorts] [00:06:35.520] uh, established as a program and, uh, it [00:06:39.919] required the help of, um, a couple other [00:06:43.919] senators, Senator Enu and Senator [00:06:46.000] Stevens. [00:06:47.680] And I believe Stevens had had an [00:06:49.919] experience coincidentally you know [00:06:54.560] on these topics you and I both know it’s [00:06:56.880] hard to separate coincidences you know [00:07:00.000] serendipities you know everything yet [00:07:02.400] after a while how much serendipity is [00:07:04.720] there the bucket seems to overflow with [00:07:07.039] serendipity when you finally have to say [00:07:09.520] damn it this isn’t something else is [00:07:11.759] causal in this event or these events you [00:07:14.400] know but anyway [00:07:15.440] well Reed had been an attorney in your [00:07:17.680] father’s airplane accident. I think [00:07:19.599] he actually was he he he was [00:07:22.080] representing [00:07:23.599] uh my my uh I think he had been how was [00:07:28.319] that? Um [00:07:31.199] I forget now exactly who was he was [00:07:33.840] representing but anyway uh yeah he had [00:07:36.720] he had been involved and and um Senator [00:07:40.319] Stevens had had a sighting and uh so [00:07:43.759] they put a competition together [00:07:47.520] uh and I didn’t know we weren’t privy to [00:07:51.440] all of what the Defense Intelligence [00:07:54.479] Agency was uh was motivated by and how [00:08:00.240] this was what were their interests. I [00:08:03.759] mean there are things that that um [00:08:06.639] probably exceeded um uh what we were [00:08:10.560] entitled to know even though we had [00:08:12.879] clearances and all that um [00:08:16.319] TSSCI uh clearances. So we were card [00:08:19.440] carrying members of of the agency and um [00:08:24.720] TS is a top secret special compartmental [00:08:27.360] information TSSCI. [00:08:30.000] Um [00:08:32.320] so everybody has all different agendas, [00:08:34.719] right? And so uh so they want they they [00:08:39.519] had a a plan a program and and and we [00:08:43.279] wound up uh uh winning the program and [00:08:47.200] winning the the contract for that. I [00:08:50.080] think [clears throat] Harry’s interest [00:08:52.880] began in the area when he attended some [00:08:55.360] of our our our meetings. [00:08:57.360] NIDS [00:08:57.920] at NIDS. [00:08:58.640] Yeah. [00:08:59.040] He was there. And so I think that helped [00:09:02.880] galvanize his interest and um you know I [00:09:07.519] think that made him more sympathetic to [00:09:09.920] it maybe and at least or at least [00:09:11.519] intrigued him that yeah there’s a lot to [00:09:13.920] this topic you know and it’s a pretty [00:09:15.920] damn serious topic. [00:09:17.200] You know you’ve heard the the [00:09:18.640] scuttlebutt that floats around. Well [00:09:20.240] this is a sweetheart deal. Harry Reid [00:09:22.000] and Bob Bigalow are friends. This is a [00:09:24.080] senator doing a favor for a constituent [00:09:26.560] who’s also contributed to campaigns and [00:09:29.040] stuff like that. Um, Harry Reid’s a [00:09:31.600] Democrat. You’re not really a Democrat [00:09:33.440] at all. You will you you will support [00:09:35.680] candidates here or there. The fact that [00:09:38.160] he was open to UFOs enough to come to [00:09:40.399] NIDS, keep it on the low down, but he [00:09:42.640] was interested. Um, that probably helped [00:09:45.360] your your interest in supporting him. [00:09:47.040] Well, as a as a [clears throat] [00:09:48.959] as a as a political supporter, [00:09:52.560] I have supported Democrats and [00:09:54.080] Republicans because I I I I like to [00:09:58.880] support the person. [00:10:01.440] It’s not the party so much. It’s it’s [00:10:03.360] the person. Where’s the person’s heart [00:10:06.240] and where where are they, you know? And [00:10:08.880] so, yeah, I had supported Harry. [00:10:11.200] supported a lot of other Democrats too [00:10:13.519] and Republicans and um and so um but we [00:10:20.480] were [00:10:22.160] we were well positioned uh because of [00:10:24.959] the physicists that we knew to win that [00:10:27.360] that award and it was it was an [00:10:29.680] objective contest and it was it was put [00:10:32.800] out and uh so I don’t know who all the [00:10:36.640] competition was but uh we weren’t alone [00:10:41.040] And we won we won the competition, won [00:10:43.279] the won the award. [00:10:44.399] But you were I mean you were tailor made [00:10:46.240] for this. Uh I don’t know if it was [00:10:48.240] tailor made for you, but I mean you [00:10:50.000] already had expertise. You had been down [00:10:51.920] the road with NIDS. [00:10:53.040] Well, we have the only we had the only [00:10:55.040] living laboratory. [00:10:56.079] Yeah. [00:10:56.720] You know, in the operation in the United [00:10:59.040] States like it was, you know, the [00:11:00.959] skinwalker ranch and we had a cadri of [00:11:04.880] of scientists and staff already. We we [00:11:08.560] were we were more equipped. [00:11:12.480] There there are [00:11:15.519] some other people and companies that you [00:11:16.959] and I know about. Um but this this that [00:11:20.959] could have that that maybe could have [00:11:23.839] gone into this but not in this kind of [00:11:26.880] way. They have it’s [00:11:28.480] too much work. [00:11:29.279] Well and they have other asset angles to [00:11:32.800] go after. Right. So in this kind of a [00:11:35.600] case we had a living laboratory and we [00:11:38.480] were able to process uh government [00:11:41.040] people into this living laboratory and [00:11:43.279] let them experience for better or for [00:11:45.839] worse what was going on and that’s [00:11:48.320] exactly what happened you know so I [00:11:51.200] think what did [clears throat] the [00:11:52.240] government get out of it I think besides [00:11:55.040] all the the reports that we we generated [00:11:58.240] they got a tremendous amount of [00:11:59.839] verification on all kinds of events and [00:12:02.480] kinds of things that happened uh that [00:12:04.800] they would not have gotten any other [00:12:06.160] way. [00:12:06.800] Is it accurate to say that you also [00:12:08.399] landed the contract because you’re [00:12:09.760] willing to put your money where your [00:12:10.959] mouth was that you spent money to [00:12:13.600] prepare your facility here uh to for to [00:12:16.720] handle the program to hire people, [00:12:18.720] right? [00:12:19.279] And you actually spent more than you [00:12:21.040] got. I mean, you this is not a money [00:12:23.200] maker for you. [00:12:24.079] Yeah. [clears throat] Yeah. Yeah. I [00:12:25.920] bought buildings and so forth and and [00:12:27.920] did different kinds of things and and we [00:12:30.000] thought it was going to continue a [00:12:31.360] little bit longer than it did. Um and we [00:12:33.680] got up to about close to 50 staff and um [00:12:37.440] but um [00:12:40.463] [clears throat] and then I continued uh [00:12:42.639] beyond the sessation of the program I [00:12:45.920] continued uh you know [00:12:47.839] you kept it going for [00:12:48.800] I kept it going. Yeah. [00:12:49.600] Yeah. Kept it going. And part of that [00:12:51.519] was, well, you don’t know if if uh [00:12:54.560] there’s going to be a recurring interest [00:12:56.959] or is, you know, what are you going to [00:13:00.320] do in something that’s so unique? Uh I [00:13:03.760] wasn’t interested in in making it uh [00:13:09.040] broadcasted publicly. I wasn’t m it [00:13:11.440] wasn’t it wasn’t for public consumption [00:13:14.639] because [00:13:16.560] um [00:13:18.399] the [clears throat] the the work was [00:13:20.320] pretty esoteric. It was it was you [00:13:22.800] didn’t know what you’re dealing with [00:13:24.240] exactly and you weren’t taking things [00:13:26.639] home and we knew that but but nobody got [00:13:29.519] hurt and we weren’t doing anything [00:13:32.240] intentionally for anybody to take [00:13:35.360] anything home whatsoever. And um and [00:13:39.120] when I and as I said when I found out [00:13:41.120] about the government people uh having [00:13:44.079] some very explicit kinds of things [00:13:47.360] happen that’s [clears throat] when I I [00:13:50.079] said okay this I don’t want to continue [00:13:53.120] the DIA cutting it off. Um I don’t know [00:13:56.160] if you want to talk about the reasons [00:13:57.600] for that. I mean, there were some [00:13:58.800] political machinations, a little bit of [00:14:00.480] his turf war, but there was also fear. [00:14:03.279] Gosh, if it gets out that we’re studying [00:14:05.360] this really weird stuff, we’re going to [00:14:07.360] be embarrassed or and as well as some [00:14:10.079] religious folks who thought you were um [00:14:13.680] opening up the doors to hell or [00:14:15.199] something like that. Well, on the the [00:14:18.480] last year of funding, uh, somebody got [00:14:21.760] into, uh, the money that was supposed to [00:14:23.760] come to us and they took it and that was [00:14:26.959] the cause of why it wasn’t funded, uh, [00:14:29.600] the third year is it the money went [00:14:31.760] south to another place, another [00:14:34.480] department. Um but within the agency was [00:14:38.800] a religious peculiarity, a [00:14:42.000] predisposition based on religion that [00:14:45.199] scared a number of people [00:14:48.320] in the agency, perhaps even outside the [00:14:51.279] agency that [00:14:54.560] wound up dominating the thinking. [00:14:58.959] And so [clears throat] this was based on [00:15:01.199] certain religious convictions. [00:15:05.040] At first we didn’t believe it, [00:15:06.240] right? [00:15:06.800] But then finally our program manager [00:15:09.600] said, “Yeah, this is the case. Believe [00:15:12.480] it right here in River City, you know, [00:15:15.279] this is going on.” And uh as something [00:15:19.199] uh um as human as that is undermining [00:15:23.920] the discovery process, you know. So, [00:15:27.040] okay, we understand we’re working with [00:15:29.440] people and people come in all different [00:15:31.920] flavors, all different mental [00:15:34.160] predispositions and it is [00:15:36.660] [clears throat] what it is and it’s not [00:15:38.800] everybody’s cup of tea. So, I respect if [00:15:41.360] if somebody can’t cope with a particular [00:15:45.920] position on a topic, whether it’s [00:15:48.560] survival or ET or whatever it might be [00:15:51.040] because of of convictions they’ve [00:15:53.040] already have or acquired in some way. So [00:15:56.000] be it. You know, it’s still a free [00:15:58.320] country so far. [00:15:59.600] You found another home for it, right? [00:16:01.839] And it you thought it was going to go [00:16:03.199] forward and then the door gets slammed. [00:16:05.600] I think the door kind of got slammed [00:16:08.800] um because you were knocking on doors [00:16:11.120] that people didn’t want to open looking [00:16:13.199] for the goodies. Is that right? [00:16:15.600] We were um [00:16:18.160] Yeah. [00:16:20.079] There’s a [clears throat] um there’s a [00:16:23.839] another SAP is another acronym. So TSSCI [00:16:28.800] is for clearances and then you can be [00:16:31.519] TSSCI SAP and it can be an unagnowledged [00:16:36.399] SAP or an acknowledged SAP. Um, [00:16:41.680] most presidents of the United States are [00:16:45.839] not privy [00:16:47.680] generally to all SAP programs by any [00:16:50.639] means. Definitely not to an [00:16:52.560] unagnowledged SAP and it’s for their own [00:16:55.519] protection. [00:16:57.120] It’s for denial. [00:16:59.440] I’m not talking about the river in [00:17:00.560] Egypt, but [00:17:01.600] you know, it’s for denial. And so uh [00:17:06.799] and then there’s an acknowledged saps [00:17:09.120] also are very subrosa [00:17:12.640] and [00:17:14.799] um they are they most presidents are not [00:17:18.160] are not knowledgeable about acknowledged [00:17:20.559] saps although it can be bifurcated. It [00:17:23.439] can be maybe it’s 5050 maybe they are [00:17:25.520] into that maybe not. It depends upon the [00:17:28.000] staff’s predisposition as to whether or [00:17:30.799] not they want to tell and maybe maybe [00:17:33.440] maybe they don’t like that president. [00:17:36.240] Maybe they figure the president’s in is [00:17:38.320] not reliable [00:17:40.240] and can’t be trusted with the [00:17:42.080] information and uh so they’re not going [00:17:45.840] to tell him. He won’t know. He won’t [00:17:49.679] know. And you’d think all presidents do. [00:17:52.320] No. No. by not by any means do all [00:17:55.120] presidents know what’s absolutely not. [00:17:57.919] Um the community [clears throat] is [00:17:59.280] extremely small [00:18:01.600] that actually really know where things [00:18:04.240] are [00:18:05.919] and what’s going on [00:18:08.160] is really really really really small. [00:18:11.840] Okay. Um [00:18:14.799] and so [00:18:18.559] in our case um [00:18:21.679] the [00:18:24.160] u predisposition against us of a [00:18:27.520] religious conviction [00:18:30.240] uh manifested itself [00:18:33.600] in such a significant way that the rug [00:18:37.679] was pulled out from under us. [00:18:40.720] um at inopportune time. [00:18:45.840] Uh you can imagine how far you would [00:18:48.240] have gone if they had been allowed to [00:18:49.919] continue with 50 or more employees [00:18:52.559] plugging away going around the world [00:18:55.280] interacting with acquiring other [00:18:57.200] government files going out to hotspots [00:19:00.000] investigating boots on the ground [00:19:01.520] incidents UFO cases other phenomena [00:19:05.440] versus what exists now the UAP task [00:19:08.960] force two or three people no budget. Um, [00:19:13.440] I mean, you could have really made a [00:19:15.280] dent in this topic and the the big [00:19:17.280] questions. [00:19:18.400] Well, [clears throat] [00:19:20.080] um, [00:19:22.240] and you’re leaving out, [snorts] you [00:19:25.120] know, the kind of the holy grail of the [00:19:29.679] topic, you know, machinery. [00:19:32.400] Yeah. Is there machinery? Is there [00:19:35.760] that’s what the New York Times story [00:19:37.440] which you’ll talk about in a second. New [00:19:38.880] York Times reported that you modified [00:19:41.520] your facility here in order to house [00:19:44.640] some material from somewhere else. Did [00:19:47.120] you ever have it? [00:19:49.360] We never had any. [00:19:50.240] Do you ever see it? [00:19:52.000] Um [00:19:54.480] I there’s I um you know do you see do [00:19:58.480] you see uh things that are photos or do [00:20:01.600] you see things in person and so forth? [00:20:04.320] Um so you don’t want to you don’t want [00:20:08.080] to talk about stuff in case it happens. [00:20:10.160] Yeah. [00:20:10.640] In the future. [00:20:11.440] Yeah. [00:20:12.320] And uh because who knows um what might [00:20:16.960] happen in terms of a coalescing of [00:20:20.640] intersections that could happen. And so [00:20:24.240] um [00:20:24.480] you don’t want to spill any beans that [00:20:26.160] causes you it put you in a bad light [00:20:28.080] somewhere down the road. Well, I just I [00:20:30.960] I you know um I think that u [00:20:36.880] machinery really does exist [00:20:40.320] does exist, [00:20:42.400] you know, and so uh but the the uh [00:20:49.120] the problem has been [00:20:52.000] the inability to back engineer. [00:20:56.320] And [00:20:58.240] I kind of think that some [00:21:01.039] some things require a weightless [00:21:03.280] environment. [00:21:05.039] So part of that is [00:21:08.559] we don’t have it here terrestrially. So [00:21:11.280] what you need is a manufacturing [00:21:13.360] facility where there’s a weightless [00:21:15.200] environment. It’s [00:21:16.559] part of the reason you develop big [00:21:18.880] aerospace [00:21:19.440] for certain amalgams and certain kinds [00:21:21.360] of things. Uh but it’s also like uh you [00:21:24.960] know it doesn’t do you much good to [00:21:29.120] own a sliver of a case that holds a cell [00:21:32.480] phone to understand [00:21:36.159] was it even a case? Was it holding [00:21:39.039] something? And what was that something [00:21:40.159] it was holding? and much less how does a [00:21:43.039] cell phone work and oh by the way it [00:21:45.120] doesn’t work at all if you don’t have [00:21:47.280] all the communication capabilities that [00:21:49.200] the cell phone needs to communicate with [00:21:51.120] and all that kind of thing. So it’s like [00:21:53.520] it could go it could just domino out [00:21:55.600] into a thousand different things. So [00:21:58.480] having an answer on a small sliver of [00:22:00.720] something isn’t necessarily much right. [00:22:04.640] So um we are just we are so we are [00:22:09.120] embarrassingly [00:22:11.280] as a species as a science as a space [00:22:14.559] fairing attempting uh species behind. We [00:22:18.640] we’re a galactic embarrassment almost. [00:22:20.960] Yeah. I mean, we’re so far freaking [00:22:22.320] behind. We’re we’re we really are. We we [00:22:25.120] it’s a galactic embarrassment and and [00:22:26.960] and we may not even be able to [00:22:29.200] consciously be able to uh to operate the [00:22:34.400] uh things, you know, because it’s not [00:22:36.640] like with fingerprints or anything, you [00:22:38.880] know, it’s consciousness driven. So, you [00:22:41.120] taste that a little bit in being able to [00:22:45.679] to have some communications. And we have [00:22:47.679] other areas of of sigh and phenomenology [00:22:50.880] where uh mentally people can can have [00:22:56.640] macro PK you know uh they can execute [00:22:59.760] macro PK events and do and they’re not [00:23:02.720] supposed to be able to do that our our [00:23:04.559] physics and science says no you can’t do [00:23:06.400] that and yet it’s happening right so [00:23:09.520] whether it’s Bob Johns and Brendon [00:23:10.960] Dunn’s work in in microPK on subatomic [00:23:14.240] particles or macro PK with glignia in [00:23:16.640] Russia and with her bell jar and all [00:23:18.559] that kind of thing and she’s lifting a [00:23:20.159] pencil or bottle cap, [00:23:22.799] you’re sniffing at something that’s [00:23:25.600] really not on our radar as a parochial [00:23:28.720] educational system in physics or [00:23:30.480] anything. You’re totally outside the [00:23:32.240] boundary, right? And we’re still dealing [00:23:34.320] with fire engines, right? Okay. So, it’s [00:23:37.679] it’s really frustrating and and uh um [00:23:42.000] the potential might someday be there to [00:23:44.400] try to back engineer more. And we’ve [00:23:46.080] heard stories about little bitty things [00:23:48.240] that maybe the Russians have [00:23:49.760] backgineered and and [00:23:52.559] so we we’re still enough of potentially [00:23:55.520] the Klingons to turn things into [00:23:57.280] weapons, right? So that’s that’s a big [00:24:00.080] problem is the fact that we don’t have [00:24:02.880] an intersection. If you have two lines, [00:24:04.720] one on spirituality and technology, [00:24:07.600] where’s the intersection ever happening? [00:24:09.200] Because we’re flatlined on spiritual [00:24:11.200] evolution, but our technological [00:24:14.240] evolution [00:24:15.919] is not only vertical, it’s segmentated. [00:24:18.640] It’s jumping. It’s jumping faster, you [00:24:21.919] know. And and so where’s that [00:24:23.919] intersection of of harmony supposed to [00:24:25.919] be? I don’t see it. I don’t see it a 100 [00:24:28.799] years from now or 200 years from now. I [00:24:31.039] don’t see anything on the horizon today [00:24:32.480] that ever said that’s saying well the [00:24:35.760] spirituality line is going to start to [00:24:38.000] really accelerate this other one is [00:24:40.000] going to start to stop and eventually [00:24:41.840] there’s going to be an intersection of [00:24:43.120] harmony where there’s an integration of [00:24:44.960] the two I don’t see I can’t possibly [00:24:47.840] foresee that I don’t see it at all so [00:24:50.000] it’s a big worry if you were an [00:24:51.840] occupying if you were another species on [00:24:54.080] a another planet a thinking species of [00:24:57.520] intelligence and we had the capabilities [00:24:59.840] to get to You you should be con damn [00:25:02.559] concerned about the human race. [00:25:04.720] Yeah. If I had that technology, I would [00:25:06.799] not give it to us. [00:25:08.240] Yeah, that that you Okay, you just said [00:25:10.000] it. That’s exactly right. You just said [00:25:11.919] that. You that’s that is the big [00:25:15.200] anchelada right there. You just said it. [00:25:17.279] That’s the plate. New York Times [00:25:18.962] [clears throat] breaks this story out [00:25:20.159] December of 2017. It explodes. It’s a [00:25:23.039] tremendously important story. It changes [00:25:25.039] the UFO landscape forever, but it gets [00:25:27.679] some things not quite right. You’ve been [00:25:29.919] on the sidelines watching all the [00:25:31.679] reactions to this for the last three [00:25:34.080] years. They report a program called ATIP [00:25:38.720] headed for a long time by Lou Alzando [00:25:41.039] who got $22 million to study UFOs. And [00:25:44.559] the reality is the 22 million was what [00:25:46.799] went to you and OAP to study [00:25:49.092] [clears throat] much broader subjects [00:25:50.880] than UFOs. and you did interact with Lou [00:25:53.679] Alzando uh back and forth and and the [00:25:56.960] ATP folks, but you had you were the big [00:25:59.679] program. That was what was left over, [00:26:01.840] right? Is that right? [00:26:03.520] Yeah. I [00:26:05.360] we uh [00:26:10.640] yeah we we were we were the the primary [00:26:14.000] program and um our program manager is of [00:26:18.880] a completely different name who ran our [00:26:21.679] program the great guy this is the one I [00:26:24.080] said earlier [clears throat] I’m I’m you [00:26:26.320] know it’s wonderful that that people [00:26:29.039] like him work for our government um [00:26:33.279] because he’s he’s a terrific guy. And uh [00:26:36.240] I met Lou a couple times. Didn’t really [00:26:40.080] he he didn’t play a role in in in our [00:26:44.240] program and in any way in terms of who [00:26:47.440] we ever reported to or or whoever we [00:26:50.159] discussed kind of things with and and uh [00:26:53.919] and our other our program manager was [00:26:55.840] very fundamental and key. Um the the the [00:27:02.240] um the contest and the entire program [00:27:06.640] was was created through our program [00:27:11.520] manager and through Senator Reid and [00:27:15.279] Anyway and and Stevens to put this out [00:27:19.120] for a competition and um [00:27:23.919] and that’s what that’s all I know is and [00:27:27.039] then we won the competition. And we were [00:27:29.360] we were deserving of that because we [00:27:31.039] were so prepared to to participate and [00:27:34.000] do this and and uh we were um best [00:27:38.799] suited to win. We we had we had [00:27:41.919] everything in in line to do that. [00:27:43.919] Since that story came out, as I said, I [00:27:46.000] mean, the UFO world has turned upside [00:27:48.240] down. You have a much broader audience [00:27:50.480] that seems to be focused on it. these [00:27:53.520] senators and congressmen who would never [00:27:55.600] talk about this in a million years are [00:27:57.200] now willing to come out and say this is [00:27:59.440] worth studying. It is a sea change but [00:28:01.840] it’s largely because of the work you [00:28:03.440] guys did. Well, [00:28:06.080] um, [00:28:08.399] one of the, uh, so, so, um, with the tic [00:28:13.520] tac off the coast of San Diego, um, the [00:28:16.559] event in 2004, we just serendipitously [00:28:19.840] happened to hire on our team in 2008, [00:28:23.760] uh, one of the pilots, uh, of the group [00:28:26.720] that that saw the tic-tac uh, [00:28:30.080] underwater, the churning of all the [00:28:31.760] water and underwater and then as it as [00:28:33.679] it came out out of the water. And um and [00:28:38.084] [clears throat] so we got a firsthand [00:28:41.039] um briefing on something that we [00:28:44.720] probably shouldn’t have had um [00:28:47.909] [clears throat] [00:28:48.480] because it should have been totally [00:28:50.159] classified, but it wasn’t. It wasn’t [00:28:52.559] even acknowledged, [00:28:54.399] you know. In fact, uh [00:28:56.399] it was ignored, right? [00:28:57.279] It was ignor ignored. We had a lot of [00:29:00.399] ducks in a row and um we we had bought [00:29:03.520] facilities uh spent many millions of [00:29:06.399] dollars in in buying buildings and and [00:29:09.919] uh I did have um a large program uh to [00:29:16.240] do a major uh construction on this [00:29:19.760] property uh besides what we already have [00:29:22.480] here. And uh that was going to be really [00:29:25.279] fun and cool. Um in fact what I was [00:29:28.399] going to use uh so we would have nothing [00:29:32.399] that would protrude the surface much you [00:29:35.039] know I was going to use u life support [00:29:37.520] systems that you use in space because [00:29:39.760] you don’t have a door you can go out of [00:29:41.039] or window you can put up right so you [00:29:43.360] survive based on the ecos the [00:29:45.279] environmental control life support [00:29:46.640] systems that you create on board your [00:29:48.880] stations right and so I [clears throat] [00:29:51.600] was going to actually implement those [00:29:54.000] into the underground facility which was [00:29:56.960] going to be substantial and so that was [00:29:58.320] a lot of fun to to do that. [00:30:00.240] I know that you you did knock on many [00:30:02.399] doors during the OAP during the BAS uh [00:30:05.039] program and that doors got slammed as [00:30:07.600] you’re asking for sensitive stuff or [00:30:09.600] access to sensitive stuff. [00:30:10.960] Yeah. [00:30:11.279] Uh is the secrecy directly related to [00:30:13.440] what you were just talking about the [00:30:14.559] military uh the military imperative? [00:30:17.200] We’re going to hold on to this stuff and [00:30:18.880] figure out how to make weapons out of it [00:30:20.720] and we got to get there before the [00:30:22.159] Russians and Chinese do because they are [00:30:23.840] working on it. Right. [00:30:24.960] Yeah. [00:30:26.159] Um, yeah, there’s there’s definitely uh [00:30:29.919] uh crashes been reported in in in Russia [00:30:33.200] and uh I’ve heard of them in China, um [00:30:36.559] South America, Brazil. Um they’re [00:30:39.679] they’re scattered all around almost as [00:30:41.520] though they’ve been deliberately done. [00:30:44.000] You know, let’s just salt uh you know, [00:30:47.760] scatter the seeds around and see what [00:30:49.440] happens. Um, [00:30:52.320] so you know, you you would hope that [00:30:54.320] that uh people that have custody um [00:30:58.880] have [00:31:00.640] a [00:31:02.720] a sense of responsibility [00:31:06.000] uh to and and uh an accuracy in [00:31:11.120] estimating what’s going to happen with [00:31:13.679] something that you put in the hands of [00:31:18.240] people that are not equipped. It’s [00:31:21.840] pretty premature for them to be able to [00:31:26.000] to handle [clears throat] something that [00:31:27.039] you’ve just put into their hands and [00:31:29.120] that they would they would weaponize it. [00:31:31.679] So, so I’m hope I I just would hope that [00:31:34.399] um uh [00:31:37.760] that that doesn’t happen. you know how [00:31:39.840] how you know what are the scenarios in [00:31:42.080] which that could happen maybe and and [00:31:44.240] and uh but but you’re just hoping that [00:31:48.000] those scenarios never never occur [00:31:51.440] which would be obviously [00:31:54.080] if another country develops very unique [00:31:57.360] capabilities [00:31:58.880] and it it appears as though [00:32:02.447] [clears throat] those capabilities are [00:32:03.760] beyond what logically could have been [00:32:07.120] generated from where we are science-wise [00:32:10.399] now [00:32:12.000] that might change the philosophy of [00:32:14.080] people here that have access to [00:32:17.360] something. And so what that might do is [00:32:20.559] instead of having just a very few [00:32:22.960] scientists [00:32:24.880] work on super unique kinds of things, [00:32:28.640] you would have a Manhattan project. [00:32:31.840] It’s what it needs, right? [00:32:36.080] If you have a Manhattan project [00:32:39.360] in today’s communication world, how do [00:32:42.320] you keep the cat in the bag? [00:32:44.559] Yeah. [00:32:46.240] How do you how do you how do you keep [00:32:47.600] control and maintain control without [00:32:50.880] having all of a sudden you’ve generated [00:32:54.000] a a a mad mutual assured destruction [00:32:57.200] kind of philosophy you know which worked [00:33:00.960] in the 50s and 60s and 70s for nukes [00:33:04.799] but [00:33:06.480] this is this is a this is something [00:33:09.200] different. Did you learn anything [00:33:12.240] through bass through OSAP program about [00:33:15.120] consciousness? I mean know you cast a [00:33:16.960] wide net. You were looking at big [00:33:18.559] picture stuff. How different phenomena [00:33:20.799] might interact uh not only just [00:33:23.120] technology but big picture ethereal [00:33:26.320] stuff. Did you learn anything about [00:33:27.519] consciousness during that that has [00:33:29.279] affected the direction that you’re about [00:33:31.039] to to take the leap that you’re about to [00:33:32.799] take? Yeah, there were there were the [00:33:35.279] things [clears throat] that were being [00:33:37.919] um [00:33:39.919] being uh [00:33:44.799] set up as games [00:33:47.360] was [00:33:49.360] uh were were [clears throat] [00:33:52.320] thought connected. There was a [00:33:54.720] spontaneity [00:33:56.320] when you felt you didn’t see [00:33:59.038] [clears throat] well you didn’t s sense [00:34:00.799] anything with the five normal senses you [00:34:04.000] felt something is in the room with you [00:34:06.880] so you start taking pictures uh you ask [00:34:13.119] not aloud you’re thinking and asking for [00:34:16.800] things to manifest [00:34:18.800] on on digital cameras [00:34:22.960] uh or you’re [00:34:25.359] you’re [00:34:27.040] thinking and asking for something to [00:34:28.800] change the physical arrangement of [00:34:32.079] objects on table, you know, tables and [00:34:35.280] different different things. Um, [00:34:39.440] so and if you if you’re bringing [00:34:42.560] something home with you and an [00:34:45.679] apparition is manifested [00:34:49.200] that you can start to see the quizzical [00:34:52.320] look on the face of that apparition. [00:34:58.560] I would say [clears throat] there was [00:35:00.880] some kind of causal connection between [00:35:04.320] the skinwalker ranch [00:35:06.880] and something else that we with whom we [00:35:09.040] did not know uh you know we do not know [00:35:12.480] um with whom we were communicating [00:35:15.839] and so and [clears throat] it and it [00:35:17.599] could have been ET we don’t know for [00:35:19.680] sure um the bar of light as an example [00:35:24.079] is is very abnormal [00:35:27.200] in the survival of consciousness [00:35:29.760] demonstrations something like I have not [00:35:31.839] come across that in just in that kind of [00:35:34.400] way. Um [00:35:37.119] it just it not that it wouldn’t fit I [00:35:40.560] just haven’t come across it. I don’t [00:35:42.160] know anybody else that has in that kind [00:35:44.400] of context. So it was a definitive bar [00:35:46.160] of light definitive bar of light and [00:35:49.040] then it disappears. So, it has a [00:35:51.200] capability of appearing and [00:35:52.960] disappearing, producing uh light, but [00:35:56.320] the light doesn’t [00:35:58.560] it’s internal to the bar. It doesn’t [00:36:00.320] glow. And you’ve heard that many times [00:36:02.560] with other kinds of objects that [00:36:04.800] manifest outside outdoors. It’s a craft [00:36:07.599] of some kind. It’s a ball, but it [00:36:09.520] doesn’t project photons. It doesn’t it [00:36:12.400] doesn’t spread its light on the ground. [00:36:15.200] It’s a ball that contains has the light, [00:36:18.079] but it doesn’t produce any any uh [00:36:22.240] you know any beam effect. That’s aside [00:36:24.960] from the ones that do. [00:36:25.920] Right. [00:36:27.200] Okay. But um you you talk about the [00:36:30.720] ranch as having discarnate entities [00:36:32.720] maybe. Um or they certainly were [00:36:34.880] discarnate in in many ways. [00:36:38.720] Looking back at that then is that [00:36:40.480] related to what you’re about to embark [00:36:42.160] on? Is it the same entity? And and I ask [00:36:44.400] it in the context of what you touched on [00:36:46.000] before. As soon as you started this [00:36:48.240] planning and talking about this new [00:36:49.920] venture, [00:36:51.440] things started happening to your [00:36:52.880] employees and people around you [00:36:54.560] and to me [00:36:55.359] and to you, [00:36:56.000] especially in the last month. [00:36:57.599] Strange things in your home. I mean, [00:36:59.119] pretty dramatic demonstration. [00:37:00.475] [clears throat] [00:37:00.960] Yeah. and and I um and because of of the [00:37:06.880] way they’re happening um I’d say in the [00:37:10.640] passing of my wife as you know my wife I [00:37:13.040] lost my wife uh we were married 55 years [00:37:16.880] and uh she passed on the 19th of [00:37:19.200] February of 2020 [00:37:22.000] and um I thought that u uh and actually [00:37:26.240] I I was surprised that she was the [00:37:28.480] roughest of those of the deaths compared [00:37:32.640] to my my uh my father, my son, and my [00:37:36.079] grandson. She was maybe uh the most [00:37:40.000] difficult to deal with. And yet I am the [00:37:42.800] most prepared to deal with it in spite [00:37:45.200] of that because I thought well I knew [00:37:47.680] that the passing was happening. [00:37:50.256] [clears throat] It was happening over a [00:37:52.320] substantial period of time [00:37:55.520] and uh over months and and even years in [00:37:58.720] terms of acquiring the the disease and [00:38:01.440] all and and all that. So it was coming [00:38:04.160] but and I thought gee okay I this is [00:38:07.440] going to be a blow and an impact but I [00:38:11.359] am better prepared now than ever to [00:38:13.440] handle it. And I was wrong. Yeah. I was [00:38:17.440] surprised. So because of the events [00:38:20.079] though that have manifested I can I can [00:38:23.839] I can associate these logically should [00:38:26.079] be connected to her because they’re the [00:38:27.680] only [00:38:29.200] there it’s the only connection I can [00:38:30.960] logically establish because of the [00:38:33.359] circumstances surrounding around the [00:38:35.440] events and um [00:38:39.040] uh but you know and that’s just happened [00:38:42.240] basically in the last [00:38:45.359] I guess oh it’s been a month and a half [00:38:47.920] since The first one at least I think a [00:38:49.440] month and a half. [00:38:50.800] Things happen in your home that have a [00:38:53.119] personal connection to her that you [00:38:55.920] perceive as [00:38:56.960] Yeah. And my and my dog. [00:39:00.480] She gave me orders [00:39:03.599] before she passed that when [00:39:07.547] [clears throat] if my dog if our dog [00:39:09.839] predesases me, my responsibility is is [00:39:13.119] to have her his ashes in a container [00:39:16.800] next to hers someplace. She dearly loved [00:39:18.800] this pooch. [00:39:20.560] And [snorts] so I said, “Sure, of [00:39:22.480] course.” [00:39:23.760] And so, um, the, uh, the [00:39:28.560] the event, uh, there’s one event that [00:39:31.040] had no connection to him, but, um, uh, [00:39:35.119] another event that, uh, that really two [00:39:38.079] other events that really did, and I’ve [00:39:40.160] had three events that were very [00:39:42.000] demonstrative. [00:39:43.680] And, and one of the events, there were [00:39:45.920] three other people besides myself that [00:39:48.400] were aware of this. and then um just the [00:39:52.720] pooch and me on the other two. So, you [00:39:56.000] know, uh so there’s some kind of a [00:40:00.000] demonstration or attempt at [00:40:01.760] communication. Um and that’s intrigued [00:40:03.920] you for a long time and now you’re going [00:40:05.599] to do something about it. [00:40:07.280] Let’s talk about Bix. What is Bix? [00:40:11.040] Well, Ambigalo Institute for [00:40:12.880] Consciousness Studies um is formed was [00:40:17.359] formed to try to um conduct research and [00:40:24.000] facilitate research into the possibility [00:40:28.480] of of the survival of human [00:40:31.119] consciousness beyond bodily death. and [00:40:34.640] also to if if that is true [00:40:40.000] then to explore [00:40:43.040] what is the other side all about [00:40:46.400] because it’s a big deal. If we’re going [00:40:48.400] to be spending a minority amount of our [00:40:51.359] spiritual existence here, incarnated [00:40:54.720] here [00:40:56.640] and [00:40:59.119] 99.9 or what other percent of of our [00:41:02.319] spiritual existence isn’t here. [00:41:06.000] And even if you believe in [00:41:07.680] reincarnations and you say, “Well, how [00:41:10.400] many incarnations [clears throat] [00:41:11.440] are you going to have?” Um, still you’re [00:41:15.599] you’re spending a huge amount of your [00:41:17.599] spiritual existence on the other side. [00:41:20.400] To me, it’s pretty damn important as to [00:41:22.720] what is it what what what is it all [00:41:25.040] about that you should be preparing for? [00:41:26.640] Does it matter as to how you conduct [00:41:28.720] your life here? if it does exist, if [00:41:32.000] it’s real, if it’s true that your [00:41:34.268] [clears throat] consciousness will [00:41:35.280] survive [00:41:37.040] and and is it is there a connection [00:41:40.480] between [00:41:42.000] what you did here with the opportunity [00:41:44.079] you have to live here to live in this [00:41:47.359] side on to live in this existence um [00:41:52.000] does matter what you did relative to the [00:41:55.119] other side? What if it does matter? What [00:41:58.000] if it matters a lot? [00:42:00.800] and and u wow then it’s pretty important [00:42:04.319] to know something about the other side. [00:42:07.920] The idea of consciousness of course it’s [00:42:09.520] a buzz word now. It has been for a while [00:42:11.440] but I mean it’s really a buzz word now [00:42:13.119] in paranormal UFO circles. People can’t [00:42:16.079] quite get their head around what it is [00:42:17.760] though. They don’t know for sure where [00:42:20.400] it comes from. [00:42:21.200] Yeah. [00:42:21.680] They don’t know how to measure it. [00:42:23.280] Yeah. [clears throat] [00:42:23.680] That’s a that’s a big task. You’re [00:42:25.440] you’re uh you’re taking a [00:42:28.319] that’s a heavy lift. [00:42:29.200] Yeah. You have this dichotomy between [00:42:31.680] the brain and mind, right? The brain is [00:42:34.880] the physical manifestation [00:42:37.040] and the prochial thinking is that when [00:42:40.880] the brain ceases to function, [00:42:43.699] [clears throat] you don’t have a mind. [00:42:46.319] That’s it. [00:42:46.960] There is no consciousness. [00:42:48.319] Yeah. [00:42:49.839] And so we know by uh a number of [00:42:52.960] different ways that the brain can cease [00:42:56.000] functioning but your mind can continue. [00:43:00.000] Well then where the hell is your mind? [00:43:03.200] You’ve lost your mind, right? So where [00:43:06.400] is it? So uh yeah, it seems to be a [00:43:10.480] little amorphous. It’s it’s it’s outside [00:43:13.680] of the physical container. [00:43:16.240] So it it um so [00:43:20.079] uh [00:43:21.760] how is how is your consciousness being [00:43:26.079] being preserved [00:43:28.800] and held and by by what by how is that? [00:43:33.040] So that’s why everybody struggles to try [00:43:36.079] to define consciousness because we think [00:43:39.119] in terms of well things need to be in [00:43:42.319] some kind of structure and in a [00:43:43.920] container or whatever. You know, um, the [00:43:47.520] normal thinking of cosmology is that [00:43:52.240] that that [clears throat] space has a [00:43:54.240] limitation of distance [00:43:57.200] and and that there is such a thing as as [00:44:01.040] uh as time, you know, uh that space [00:44:05.119] began [00:44:06.640] somewhere. Um, [00:44:09.440] neither of of which I believe in, by the [00:44:11.920] way. Um I think both time and space are [00:44:15.680] infinite. Um but [clears throat] um so [00:44:18.800] I’m not a big bang theorist. [00:44:20.880] Um uh so [00:44:25.520] uh what what’s the container for this [00:44:28.400] mind? Now, your brain’s dead, but how is [00:44:31.760] it that you’re able to report things and [00:44:35.760] not when you’re revived if you’ve had a [00:44:38.079] near-death experience and you have no [00:44:41.440] business like in Leslie Keane’s uh movie [00:44:45.359] series on TV and in her book and she’s [00:44:48.240] she has uh these people who tell their [00:44:50.480] stories are terrific uh stories that you [00:44:54.319] you can’t just explain away and yet they [00:44:57.200] should have no access whatsoever to the [00:45:00.880] information that they were able to that [00:45:03.440] they had they acquired. [00:45:05.280] So around the world there are pockets of [00:45:08.640] interest, academic sort of interest, [00:45:11.200] scientific interest in trying to measure [00:45:13.119] this and try to document it. Near-death [00:45:15.119] experiences, reincarnation cases, [00:45:17.280] survival of consciousness, but not a [00:45:19.200] lot, at least they’re they’re low-key, [00:45:22.160] maybe by necessity. Uh maybe other parts [00:45:24.560] of the world are more open to these [00:45:26.000] topics. uh but you your goal is to sort [00:45:29.200] of elevate the level of discussion. [00:45:33.346] [clears throat] It starts with us as [00:45:35.359] individuals where we we have a [00:45:38.160] curiosity. [00:45:40.640] So my goal starts to my my my uh energy [00:45:46.880] begins with [00:45:49.520] my own personal curiosity [00:45:51.920] and and the desire to make a difference. [00:45:57.280] So um um that’s then desire to make a [00:46:02.079] difference um now has overtaken the [00:46:06.000] curiosity. [00:46:07.839] So uh it’s it’s that um [00:46:11.359] I I I think because I believe the other [00:46:14.079] side does exist that and there’s [00:46:17.520] benefits if if people because I’ve [00:46:19.440] experienced those with with people [00:46:22.000] passing over and most people of any age, [00:46:27.359] you know, have people that they lose. [00:46:30.000] So, [clears throat] if uh if you can if [00:46:33.359] people can be helped [00:46:36.400] um in a grief situation, in a sorrow [00:46:40.160] situation [00:46:42.079] by [clears throat] [00:46:43.359] by information [00:46:45.599] then [00:46:47.119] and the information isn’t something that [00:46:50.560] hurts it hurts you. It’s a it’s a good [00:46:55.040] It’s a good um it’s a good gift to have [00:46:59.599] that information come to you that and [00:47:03.520] and maybe give you a belief and [00:47:05.359] something else to grab on to that the [00:47:08.960] religion wasn’t enough. The the procre [00:47:13.119] isn’t enough. You asking for more than [00:47:15.920] that. you’re asking for more than just [00:47:18.800] what another human being has told you to [00:47:21.920] think about or to believe in to commit [00:47:24.480] yourself to and that and that in my [00:47:27.680] particular case that’s the situation [00:47:29.599] that’s the case. So I think well maybe [00:47:32.560] other people are in the same boat and [00:47:35.040] the more they can grab on to the better [00:47:38.240] off they they’ll feel and and and and [00:47:42.319] especially if they if they get to a [00:47:43.920] point to where they they they have [00:47:45.760] enough conviction they say yeah this is [00:47:48.800] now what I believe is real. So if you [00:47:51.680] could make a dent in that, if you could [00:47:54.560] elevate the discussion, support research [00:47:57.440] that establishes beyond reasonable doubt [00:48:00.960] that consciousness goes on, that we [00:48:02.960] don’t die, you could effectively u [00:48:06.720] decrease people’s fear of dying. You [00:48:09.280] could help people get through grief. [00:48:11.200] Yeah. [00:48:11.760] And maybe make a difference on what they [00:48:13.839] end up doing here [00:48:16.240] to benefit them on the other side. [00:48:19.359] many different kinds of connections like [00:48:21.119] that. That’s right. That’s right. And [00:48:24.240] and uh and all any of those is is are [00:48:28.400] are such it’s there’s it’s so powerful. [00:48:31.760] You can pick any one [00:48:34.160] and and that’s a big deal. What you what [00:48:37.040] you as a consequence if you believe that [00:48:39.760] there’s a karmic connection [00:48:43.119] between both sides [00:48:45.918] [clears throat] then what you do [00:48:46.960] matters. [00:48:48.559] For better or for worse, it matters. [00:48:51.440] What evidence exists in for you? What [00:48:54.079] convinces you that there is another side [00:48:56.640] and that it’s worth pursuing in a [00:48:58.720] scientific and academic sort of a [00:49:01.680] Well, you just went through some of the [00:49:03.119] list. I think you start with with [00:49:05.280] near-death experiences. Um um those are [00:49:09.839] very profound. Not not everybody um has [00:49:13.839] the full monty and a full near-death [00:49:16.319] experience. Some people um don’t have [00:49:19.760] any kind of experience and they’ve [00:49:21.680] they’ve gone into a near-death [00:49:23.280] situation, but they don’t have the [00:49:25.599] experience. Reincarnation, there are [00:49:28.000] cases involving young very young [00:49:30.160] children that are and Ian Stevenson, his [00:49:33.520] book um 22 cases suggestive of [00:49:35.920] reincarnation is a classic and he had [00:49:39.040] researched 2,000 cases. that 22 was just [00:49:42.559] a minuscule sampling of all of his [00:49:45.200] research and work. And so reincarnation [00:49:50.000] uh circumstances uh really [00:49:54.240] stretch the bizarre if you’re trying to [00:49:56.640] give conventional answers as to how [00:49:59.599] people can can know things they should [00:50:01.760] have no business knowing. And um so [00:50:05.200] you’re you’re beyond the credible if [00:50:07.440] you’re you’re just you’ve gone you it’s [00:50:09.280] easier to to acknowledge something [00:50:11.920] that’s phenomenal here sometimes than go [00:50:14.960] to extremes and trying to concoct an [00:50:17.359] answer that’s that would fit a a a [00:50:20.559] typical scientist’s method of of [00:50:22.720] answering something. you know, you can [00:50:24.480] go to ridiculous lengths and I think [00:50:26.880] having having apparitions, if you see an [00:50:29.920] apparition, how do you explain that that [00:50:32.240] so if you have personal experiences, if [00:50:34.079] you if you saw something move, something [00:50:37.040] levitate, [00:50:38.720] um, poltergeist effects like very loud [00:50:41.760] crashes and noises on things and and [00:50:44.079] nothing is out of place. And I’ve had [00:50:46.319] that happen. Um, [00:50:49.359] I’ve had I’ve had things I’ve I’ve uh [00:50:52.480] that so personal experiences help um [00:50:55.839] trusted members of your family um [00:50:58.720] telling you things that that you know [00:51:00.559] these the family members and they’re so [00:51:04.640] um [clears throat] uh struck by what’s [00:51:08.400] happened to them. Um, and that’s that’s [00:51:11.760] impressive how how it was that they what [00:51:14.319] were the conditions under which you were [00:51:16.480] told something and and uh how profound [00:51:19.280] something is. So I think there’s all [00:51:20.960] kinds of ways you know EVP um you know [00:51:25.599] things that are caught on camera um and [00:51:29.280] uh so there’s a lot of different ways to [00:51:31.760] try to gather the information. [00:51:34.079] Both Edison and Tesla were working on [00:51:36.160] something that the equivalent of a [00:51:37.440] spirit phone at the end of their lives. [00:51:39.440] Yeah, they were. [00:51:40.400] Is there what do you think about that? [00:51:42.000] And is there any similar research going [00:51:43.599] on now? [clears throat] [00:51:44.720] Uh well, George me tried to I think um [00:51:47.839] the uh uh was is it the uh the Fletcher [00:51:51.839] Foundation the um oh I’ve got a block [00:51:54.960] down the name that so through [00:51:57.520] electronics it has been tried many times [00:52:00.079] and up to current there are current [00:52:02.240] efforts underway to try to have some [00:52:04.480] kind of a a spirit connection uh [00:52:08.960] electronically and um [00:52:12.480] Uh, [00:52:14.800] of course, now we haven’t even mentioned [00:52:16.720] the entire fields of mediums of physical [00:52:19.839] mediums that manifest physical [00:52:23.599] um, [00:52:25.359] physical apparitions that actually you [00:52:27.680] could actually touch and feel. [00:52:29.359] You think that’s legit? [00:52:31.760] There are legit ones. [00:52:34.160] I have a totally open mind about it. I [00:52:36.800] haven’t personally investigated enough [00:52:38.559] yet to to [clears throat] have an [00:52:41.760] absolute conviction [00:52:43.760] uh one way or another. I would say [00:52:46.961] [clears throat] I would not bet against [00:52:49.040] it. I think that the I think there are [00:52:53.280] people I know and you know that um have [00:52:56.720] personally touched and felt and been [00:52:59.359] involved with significant controls that [00:53:02.800] are huge. the controls are are are [00:53:05.599] significant and um so I wouldn’t say [00:53:10.160] that right now based on my lack of [00:53:13.440] personal experience I I wouldn’t say [00:53:15.599] that it’s it’s impossible and I couldn’t [00:53:18.559] say it’s it’s 100% real but I wouldn’t [00:53:22.319] bet against it. [00:53:23.599] Um you have been reading everything you [00:53:27.040] get your hands on. you have built a good [00:53:28.559] library of uh of books [clears throat] [00:53:30.319] that establish sort of the work that’s [00:53:32.079] been done before and it goes way back. I [00:53:33.760] mean some really credible people [00:53:35.440] right [00:53:36.480] big minds of their time dug into this [00:53:38.640] and took it seriously. [00:53:39.680] Oh they they did. It’s really [00:53:41.359] interesting how even uh you know the in [00:53:46.240] the late 1800s or from 18 uh50s to to uh [00:53:50.720] maybe 1930s they there was a world class [00:53:54.559] scientists were were involved as opposed [00:53:58.319] to today it’s too it’s too uh it causes [00:54:02.880] too much jeopardy to their their career [00:54:05.359] and their their job and and all of that [00:54:07.760] their reputations. So, uh, it takes [00:54:11.040] gutsy people who are going to be [00:54:14.640] approaching this who are scientists and [00:54:16.800] they’re going to be approaching this and [00:54:18.720] and they’re researchers of different elk [00:54:21.520] and um because it seems like a hund [00:54:28.079] overund and some years ago that uh uh it [00:54:31.760] was much more legitimate ground for [00:54:33.680] exploration by ma by mainstream [00:54:36.800] scientists, psychiatrists psychologists, [00:54:39.839] people in the social sciences and [00:54:42.800] physicists to try to understand this [00:54:45.599] because things were happening that only [00:54:48.960] somebody who maybe was very fearful [00:54:52.000] would not be capable of acknowledging [00:54:54.720] these events are all happening. What the [00:54:57.599] hell is going on here? And am I too [00:55:00.640] fearful to even have the curiosity to [00:55:02.880] pursue this? I’m I’m unwilling to even [00:55:06.319] talk to these people and understand the [00:55:08.559] circumstances and do it again and again [00:55:10.880] and again on different kinds of cases to [00:55:12.880] come to a conclusion. [00:55:15.200] I don’t understand that kind of thinking [00:55:16.880] that that kind of self-handuffing. [00:55:19.119] I don’t [00:55:20.400] You’re going to reach out to the world [00:55:21.920] here in a very big way. Uh you’re going [00:55:24.880] to make an announcement. I guess you [00:55:26.160] could make an announcement right now [00:55:27.760] about what Bix wants to do this first [00:55:30.240] big endeavor. What is it? Well, we we [00:55:32.160] tried to think of ways that you know [00:55:34.319] what can we do as a as a new [00:55:37.359] organization here uh to create some [00:55:41.599] energy. And so the idea was let’s create [00:55:43.839] a contest. So we have a first, second, [00:55:46.400] and third prize. And so we have $500,000 [00:55:49.200] first prize, 300,000 second prize, and [00:55:52.240] 150,000 third prize. And the contest is [00:55:56.160] for uh essays to be produced to choose [00:56:00.799] among a variety of essays and we hope we [00:56:03.680] have more than three to choose from that [00:56:06.559] that express in the best way the best [00:56:09.520] evidence [00:56:11.119] uh for establishing that the other side [00:56:14.079] is real. [00:56:16.640] It exists. [00:56:18.400] The other side exists. [00:56:21.200] So based on that, what is your evidence [00:56:23.680] for that? And oh, by the way, [00:56:27.044] [clears throat] you’re not allowed to [00:56:28.319] quote scripture [00:56:30.640] because anybody can do that. And we [00:56:32.880] don’t look at that as significant [00:56:35.680] enough. And maybe significance is not [00:56:38.480] the right word as the appropriate kind [00:56:41.200] of proof that we’re looking for, just [00:56:43.839] quoting scripture. We’re looking [00:56:46.400] something more tangible, more concrete, [00:56:49.119] if you will. And so what’s the what’s [00:56:53.280] the um legal construct here? What’s the [00:56:57.440] basis of of this so-called proof? Well, [00:57:01.759] [clears throat] we’re we’re saying in [00:57:03.680] the contest it’s it’s uh acceptable to [00:57:07.280] use the standard that the American court [00:57:10.480] system and the court system in the major [00:57:14.640] western world uses beyond a reasonable [00:57:17.520] doubt. [00:57:18.960] So beyond a reasonable doubt doesn’t say [00:57:21.839] you have to be 100% sure [00:57:25.200] that you committed [00:57:27.280] this crime in order to be sentenced [00:57:31.359] be but we have to be beyond a reasonable [00:57:33.839] doubt that you did. [00:57:34.960] Right. [00:57:35.520] Right. And oh by the way witnesses [00:57:38.559] matter don’t they in the legal system. [00:57:41.599] Yeah. [00:57:42.400] They matter. And who the witnesses are [00:57:45.040] matter. and how many witnesses are there [00:57:47.359] matter. So, we’re saying, okay, that’s [00:57:50.319] part of the criteria here for what [00:57:52.559] you’re going to be trotting out in your [00:57:55.200] 25,000word or less essay [00:57:58.960] because that’s [clears throat] that’s [00:57:59.760] the limit in 25,000 or fewer words to [00:58:03.760] prove your case. [00:58:06.000] What have you done to prove your case [00:58:08.079] beyond a reasonable doubt that the other [00:58:10.559] side exists? So, it could be somebody [00:58:13.280] who’s done deep investigations into [00:58:15.839] near-death experiences and document the [00:58:17.839] cases, for example. [00:58:18.480] Oh, yeah. It could be a priest, a [00:58:21.040] reverend, a minister, a rabbi. It can be [00:58:24.400] anybody who belongs to the religious [00:58:26.559] community [00:58:28.559] because they’re going to say, “Wait a [00:58:29.920] minute. Now, you’re in our backyard. So, [00:58:32.160] we’re going to tell you what that that [00:58:34.640] the other side exists, and here’s how we [00:58:36.960] can tell you why how it exists.” [00:58:39.200] So, let’s hear [00:58:40.079] that it does exist. show right [00:58:42.240] without quoting scripture. [00:58:43.760] Ghost hunters, [00:58:45.760] poltergeist hunters, ghost hunters, [00:58:47.359] could they they could apply? [00:58:48.960] I think I think we have a we have a [00:58:51.280] series of rules and regulations and it’s [00:58:53.760] going to be on our website where we’re [00:58:56.160] uh we’re going to be uh opening that [00:58:58.160] website up soon and all the rules and [00:59:00.799] regulations are there. The application [00:59:02.880] is there that people have to fill out [00:59:04.880] and so on to be a qualified uh [00:59:07.599] candidate. And so we have opened that up [00:59:11.599] to um the research community that uh [00:59:16.319] spans [00:59:17.839] um it could be journalists who have [00:59:21.599] spent a lot of time and effort in this [00:59:23.920] field and they really understand uh uh a [00:59:28.400] about it and they whether it’s Jeffrey [00:59:31.200] Michionlo for example or Leslie Keane or [00:59:33.760] other people there there’s a I won’t go [00:59:35.520] through all the names but there are a [00:59:37.359] lot of researchers who who uh really [00:59:41.359] really has have spent their lives their [00:59:44.000] entire lives in this in this work. And [00:59:47.119] uh but we we have criteria that [00:59:50.720] that at least says well [00:59:53.680] you you you uh can’t just transition [00:59:57.280] from no involvement in this topic and [01:00:00.079] decide to enter the contest and waste [01:00:02.319] everybody’s time uh in in in trying to [01:00:05.599] go through your your essay and your [01:00:07.520] paper and you have no foundation for [01:00:10.559] what you’re talking about. You haven’t [01:00:12.640] researched anything and and all that, [01:00:14.400] you know. So, um, so we we we are trying [01:00:18.160] to to make the papers as high quality as [01:00:21.280] possible and I’m hoping it’s going to be [01:00:23.760] tough for our judges to choose uh [01:00:27.599] between who’s first, second, and third. [01:00:29.599] So, how many judges? [01:00:31.280] Five, excuse me, five judges. [01:00:33.440] And these are [01:00:38.799] these are people who are knowledgeable [01:00:40.240] in this field. [01:00:42.480] These [clears throat] are people who [01:00:45.920] in one case [01:00:48.391] [cough] [01:00:49.200] is not [01:00:51.359] but she is a a terrific statician. [01:00:56.640] She is a very high quality academic. [01:01:00.079] She was on our NID science advisory [01:01:03.119] board and she was she was there for the [01:01:06.079] consciousness side of that. she was part [01:01:08.160] of the group that was predisposed to [01:01:10.640] that versus ET uh I think and and [01:01:14.480] although she stayed on afterwards [01:01:16.557] [clears throat] [01:01:17.839] when we had to bifurcate and let go of [01:01:20.079] the of the one side um so we but we have [01:01:24.880] other people we have u a person who is a [01:01:28.880] physicist [01:01:31.359] we have a person who we have two other [01:01:33.839] people who are are three other people [01:01:36.160] who are very involved in this. We have [01:01:39.040] actually some of these people also are [01:01:40.720] on our board of directors. So we have [01:01:43.599] three who have been very involved uh [01:01:45.920] many years in their lives in this in [01:01:47.760] this work. We have another fellow who’s [01:01:50.880] a [01:01:52.880] uh a uh neurologist [clears throat] [01:01:56.559] and um he’s he is um a medical doctor [01:02:01.280] and um uh he has a very strong interest [01:02:04.960] in this and I I can’t say exactly how [01:02:08.480] much researching he has done but he he [01:02:11.440] privately and personally is very very uh [01:02:15.520] committed. [01:02:16.079] Are you releasing the names of the [01:02:17.280] judges? Are you keeping that to yourself [01:02:18.880] for now? [01:02:19.440] Yeah, I probably shouldn’t at this I [01:02:20.799] probably shouldn’t at this point. [01:02:21.680] Okay, so the process is you open up the [01:02:23.520] website, people can apply, fill out an [01:02:26.799] application to see if they they pass the [01:02:29.760] pass muster, right? [01:02:30.960] And then they work on the paper. What’s [01:02:32.559] the deadline for submission of the [01:02:33.920] paper? [01:02:34.400] Well, they can they can submit submit [01:02:37.123] [clears throat] their application up [01:02:39.680] until [snorts] the 28th of February, [01:02:41.359] right? And then they [clears throat] can [01:02:43.280] go to work on their paper. And then by [01:02:46.160] August the 1st, they need to submit [01:02:48.480] their paper by that date. And then the [01:02:51.599] judges have three months to digest the [01:02:54.880] papers and to make collectively their [01:02:58.240] decisions and they can comm they can [01:03:00.640] collaborate with each other and trying [01:03:03.040] to to make the decision like you know a [01:03:06.720] Supreme Court would. uh not just in a [01:03:09.119] vacuum, but they can talk to each other [01:03:11.040] as to why this and why that and uh like [01:03:13.839] a jury would, you know, as to why what [01:03:17.920] should their decision be. And um so they [01:03:21.200] have three months to do that. [01:03:23.440] So, uh $500,000 first prize, $300,000 [01:03:27.680] second prize, $150,000. That kind of [01:03:30.720] money should attract a lot of entrance, [01:03:32.799] a lot of interest. [01:03:33.839] We hope so. you know, we’re we’re trying [01:03:36.000] to do something we think is and hope is [01:03:38.880] good uh for the for the whole work for [01:03:43.839] everybody’s work. Um so many people have [01:03:46.559] spent their lives uh in this field and [01:03:50.240] haven’t received much recognition. [01:03:52.079] They’ve written books but uh it’s not a [01:03:54.880] field that that [clears throat] attracts [01:03:57.119] masses of people as researchers. [01:04:00.319] And so we’re trying to stir the pot and [01:04:02.480] create some excitement. you know, it’s [01:04:04.480] better than lighting fireworks and [01:04:06.960] sending up a bunch of balloons, you [01:04:09.119] know. So, we’re trying to do something. [01:04:11.200] You hope that you’ll get thousands of [01:04:12.880] entries. [01:04:13.760] Yeah, we we maybe it’s maybe we, you [01:04:16.160] know, I even speculate on that, but we [01:04:18.640] would like to have a good number, [01:04:21.680] whether it’s thousands or or 100 or 200, [01:04:24.400] we hope that that uh we we at least have [01:04:27.839] a showing. That’s [01:04:28.880] Well, what happens to the papers that [01:04:30.319] are submitted? Do you publish them? Do [01:04:31.839] you post them? We we u we ask permission [01:04:35.200] uh from the winners when they or people [01:04:37.359] that apply. We say we ask permission to [01:04:39.920] put them on our website. And we we also [01:04:42.880] hope that the winners are going to be [01:04:45.280] willing to go on programs such as your [01:04:48.640] program, Coast to Coast, and uh and be [01:04:52.559] interviewed and talk about their paper [01:04:56.240] and why their paper is is worthy of [01:05:00.640] winning. and maybe even being a runner [01:05:03.520] up. There’s no monetary awards for being [01:05:06.240] runner up, but we’d like to give [01:05:08.160] honorable mention to papers that were [01:05:12.000] the judges decided weren’t the three [01:05:14.960] winners, but they might have said, “Gee, [01:05:17.039] we wish we had 10 different categories [01:05:19.039] because we have these other seven papers [01:05:21.200] that are so damn good.” Uh, and and but [01:05:25.440] we were limited to three winners and we [01:05:27.039] had a hard time trying to choose. Um, [01:05:29.200] will Bix be like NIDS in that it will [01:05:31.599] dive into the research itself? Are you [01:05:34.079] looking for ideas that you could pursue [01:05:35.760] on your own or is that you more you want [01:05:37.599] to encourage the world at large to to do [01:05:40.640] this work? [01:05:43.440] We like to get our feet wet. We like to [01:05:46.160] get our fingers into things and and just [01:05:49.599] see if uh you know what um [01:05:55.440] what possibilities there might be as to [01:05:57.680] what we can do to help and and so we [01:06:00.000] look at our VIX looks as itself as as [01:06:02.960] being a research organization. [01:06:06.319] Um well, anything else we should say [01:06:08.160] about the contest or the victory? [01:06:10.319] All right. I think that’s [01:06:11.760] um one last question [clears throat] [01:06:13.520] about Bigalow Aerospace. We’re in this [01:06:15.920] amazing facility. Um [01:06:18.960] you’re not actively building the [01:06:20.240] inflatable habitats now. Might that [01:06:22.799] happen again? [01:06:24.880] We’re [clears throat] keeping our powder [01:06:26.079] dry. We’re in the process of treading [01:06:28.880] water. I am prepared to tread for [01:06:31.839] several years if necessary. Um [01:06:35.119] you have some ideas in mind though. [01:06:37.200] Yeah, we’re in communication with some [01:06:39.200] folks um different [clears throat] [01:06:41.119] different groups and uh um [01:06:46.559] and so the yeah the possibility is there [01:06:50.319] that there could be an intersection that [01:06:52.720] that we [clears throat] find and I would [01:06:56.240] re-energize this this this plant. I mean [01:06:58.799] you have an a spacecraft on the ISS [01:07:00.799] right now. [01:07:01.520] Yeah, we do. The beam. Uh-huh. Yep. And [01:07:05.520] we have some thoughts about about that [01:07:08.000] that could be [clears throat] actually [01:07:10.240] bombastic. [laughter] [01:07:12.319] They could really be [01:07:13.280] say that’s that’s a good word for it. [01:07:16.319] Yeah. [01:07:17.039] Well, with expandable systems, we don’t [01:07:18.799] use any anything that has any [01:07:20.799] connotation with explosion, right? We [01:07:22.720] don’t we don’t do that. But actually in [01:07:24.720] point of fact the expandable systems are [01:07:28.079] better able to withstand an impact than [01:07:30.960] a hard metallic system is you know and [01:07:34.640] uh so we have um hypervelocity impact [01:07:38.799] tests that prove that ballistically. [01:07:42.240] I know um final I I thought another one [01:07:45.839] uh 60 minutes you’re on 60 minutes. I’ve [01:07:48.000] seen this quote 10,000 times since you [01:07:50.880] delivered it, but the the correspondent [01:07:53.280] Lara Logan had asked you about, you [01:07:55.359] know, are they here or no? I forget what [01:07:57.440] the question was, but you know, are you [01:08:00.319] worried that people think you’re crazy [01:08:01.680] and you say you’re not? And then you [01:08:03.839] said something more provocative that you [01:08:06.559] we don’t have to look too far, [01:08:08.240] right, [01:08:08.559] for them, [01:08:09.520] right? [01:08:10.000] Do we know who them is? And and what did [01:08:11.680] you mean by it? [01:08:13.119] Um [01:08:17.520] well there’s there’s you [01:08:20.480] couple different ways to go at this. So [01:08:23.600] so one is from a uh from a hardware [01:08:27.759] standpoint. [01:08:30.319] The other one is from the uh presence [01:08:35.359] standpoint, ET presence. [01:08:38.799] And uh you know [clears throat] a lot of [01:08:41.520] people say well um [01:08:45.520] whether they’re [01:08:48.560] you know that they can be among the [01:08:50.080] population whether they’re hybrids or [01:08:53.520] they’re some other kind of of of [01:08:57.120] really look alike you know kind of thing [01:09:00.000] but so so you can look at it different [01:09:01.839] kinds of ways and and so I know of a [01:09:07.440] really good high quality quality uh [01:09:09.920] researcher who has a fantastic academic [01:09:14.080] uh credentials and background and he [01:09:17.440] would be pre more predisposed to the [01:09:19.440] latter saying that yeah they could be [01:09:23.120] among us you know and so and and uh but [01:09:28.480] he’s probably on the more extreme. He’s [01:09:30.719] definitely on the more extreme. Others [01:09:32.560] would say, well, we’re safe in saying [01:09:35.199] that there’s hardware, you know, so [01:09:38.000] that’s among us in a hardware kind of [01:09:40.480] context. [01:09:41.440] And the discarnate entities, call them [01:09:43.279] spirits. Whatever it was that was at the [01:09:45.040] ranch, the spirits that you’re going to [01:09:46.880] be investigating through Bix, they could [01:09:49.199] be among us, too. [01:09:51.120] Well, [clears throat] if you if you [01:09:52.480] follow the literature and pay attention [01:09:55.440] to a lot of other kinds of sources, they [01:09:58.400] absolutely are. [01:10:00.320] Yeah.

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