John Blitch — “Listener Qs” follow-up (That UFO Podcast, Feb 14 2025)
- Speaker: Dr. John Blitch (Ret. Lt. Col.), listener-Q&A follow-up to his earlier That UFO Podcast interview. ~52 min.
- YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gNRjI8CoQo (2025-02-14)
- Captured: 2026-05-29 via yt-dlp audio → Whisper.
- Primary for blitch-darpa-abduction-claimant. NOTABLE (at the end): the Robert Dean “humans as observers” claim — Blitch recounts that Command Sgt. Maj. Robert O. Dean (NATO staff) told him, in a brief hallway encounter, that humans were allowed to “spot check” abductions (observers, not involved in every one, “like UN Blue Helmet” peacekeepers), implying an agreement; tied to the Eisenhower technology-for-nukes lore. Blitch flags it as uncorroborated hallway-hearsay (“data not evidence”).
- NOTE: Whisper auto-transcript (“John Yoo”=the listener; “Striegel”=Strieber); verify quotes against audio.
Hi everyone, and welcome back to That UFO Podcast. Once again I am joined by Dr John Blitz, you’ll have heard his interview previously in the last few days, and if you haven’t, make sure you go back and listen, it was almost two hours. So welcome back John, how are you? I’m loving life. Awesome. It’s not been that long since we talked really, peek behind the curtain here, it was just yesterday wasn’t it, but you’re back to record this listener question section and yeah, let’s see what we can get through in the kind of time we’ve got John. First off, I like this question from Caden, because Caden has got a question from his girlfriend who isn’t really into the UFO topic, and he asked her, what would she ask you, someone with that kind of level of experience and knowledge and whatnot. And her question was, what is the best way we can hope to use recovered non-human craft? Wow, that’s a great question. And I think the, of course, there’s a lot of focus right now on the technology and reverse engineering the technology. But of all the technologies in there, I think the most precious will be the communications aspect of it, right? Because weapons are one thing and it would be nice for us to be able to sort of push back a little bit, especially in the abduction realm, if we don’t want to be taken, et cetera, or allow for us to volunteer. If you can assure me that I’m not going to have any memory of what the horrific situation might be, or if it’s not even going to be horrific, you could just ask for, yeah, we want to mess with you a little bit. I’m sure there are plenty of human beings that would be willing to do that, especially if they were compensated for their time, right? If you’re going to take me out of my job, at least backfill my wages, right, or whatever that has to be. But I do think, you know, in terms of yesterday when I was talking about fighting fear, and that’s my new objective here with both pushing back against the killer robotic fears and pushing back against the alien invasion fears, you know, the best way to do that is through knowledge, through education. So educate yourself, find out as much as you can across all aspects, dig into those, you know, that literature. And so that’s what I think, is to develop that communications activity with them, whoever they are. And I think a lot of, you know, when you look at the strife on this planet, it’s misinterpretation, miscommunication is at the root of so many conflicts, right, and our inability to put ourselves in each other’s shoes. So yeah, that would be my best advice, or that’s the way I feel about it. Noah, thanks for that. Question from Craig, he says, would love to know if during your time as a psychologist, the experiences that you interviewed, how many would be classed as having mental health issues such as ADSD, schizophrenia, ADD, ASD, BPD, bipolar, et cetera, and how common is that? That’s really, really, really important when we look at the abduction experience scientifically. But first, I want to make a correction that I have not interviewed anybody as a quantum psychologist diving into this, haven’t done any of that. And I don’t really intend to because I don’t think that’s my best foot forward in leveraging my experience. There are a lot of people who are a lot more patient than me, the John Macs of the world. And I listed a bunch of hypnotherapists yesterday, and, you know, I hail to all of them for being compassionate in the way they try to help experiencers. I will say this, however, and I had a lot of discussion about this with several folks yesterday and the day before, you know, as part of your training, your academic training, a psychiatrist learns and practices how to evaluate psychopathology. All of those conditions you were talking about, all of those issues. So this is why Karen Austin’s work with the John E. Mac Institute is so critical because John was, you know, sort of the epitome of that realm because he did routinely diagnose those conditions. And a lot of the other wonderful hypnotherapists don’t have that training in that background. So that’s why John’s files are so important and so crisp and critical. I’m not saying other files from other experiencers should be ignored. That’s not the case at all. I’m just saying when you’re sifting through data to find evidence, it’s really important to have a good filter on that. And as a licensed psychiatrist, he had that training and that ability. Leo Sprinkler, who I actually went to for a session once, equally credentialed, but he wasn’t a psychiatrist. So I can’t claim that his files and his cases are as crisp and refined, I guess, as a better process. But that doesn’t mean, like I said, doesn’t mean we should reject the others. It’s just a matter of weight of evidence, right? There’s different weights that you can assign. So that’s, I guess, my best tap dance answer to that one. I’m going to ask you this next question, but ask you once I do, can you just explain it and dumb it down for me and any listeners who may not fully understand the language? Sean asks, how do you interpret your abduction experience through the lens of cognitive psychology and neuroscience? Are there neural or psychological mechanisms that could explain parts of your experience? Yeah, so, well, as far as dumbing things down, I mean, look at that frontal slope, right? You’re talking in Neanderthal already. So what makes sense to me in my studies is the focus on how memory is consolidated. And so a very interesting, fascinating aspect of these experiences is wrapped in how memory is consolidated. So I mentioned a little bit yesterday about the hippocampal regions. The hippocampus isn’t the only sub organ or organelle within the brain that’s involved, but it is crucial as well as the thalamus and other efforts, or other components of your brain. But the key is that the consolidation process happens right away. So we actually start consolidating our memories while you’re still awake during the day. And so if you have something that happens very early in the morning that’s emotionally charged, either positive or negative, like I was talking about the fight versus the kiss yesterday, or let’s say you’re out on the field or the pitch and you make a good play, you score a goal. First time you ever scored a goal, right? You are consolidating that all day long. You’re sitting at lunch and you’re like, oh, God, I scored a goal. And then the teacher calls on you in the afternoon and you forgot your homework and you’re like, I screwed that up, but I scored a goal, right? And so that consolidation still happens during the day. But once you close your eyes, because we’re very visual creatures and you start limiting the amount of new information that comes in, your consolidation process starts ramping up because you have a little bit of resources, you have some of your cognitive resources that are back here in the V1 area, in your visual processing area of your brain, that’s now relaxed so you can devote more effort into the consolidation. And so once you go to sleep and pretty much everything is shut down, you know, your tactile, your vibral, your acoustic inputs, all the rest of that, now your consolidation really ramps up. And so those emotional events that have happened during that day really start to reap fire. So what you’re doing is those neurons are reactivating and it’s almost like there’s an expansion of those pathways. So imagine the pipe getting bigger and bigger, right? And so over time, they’ll shrink if they’re not reactivated. And so tomorrow, somebody comes up to you and says, hey, Andy, that was a great shot yesterday, that goal. And you’re like, yeah. And then they all expand up again. So it’s that memory consolidation that’s really, really fascinating to me. And so what I, again, wildly speculate at this point is that they, whoever they are, are able to tamper with that, not just that consolidation process, they can’t get rid of it because, you know, if you have some sort of experience, missing time experience right now, while it’s happening, you’re already consolidated, right? And so it’s very, very difficult without doing damage to the cortical areas to get down deep. But what you can do is you can interfere with the retrieval of it, like that file allocation table in your laptop, like I was talking about. And so that’s the mechanism that is fascinating to me. And we do have a lot of evidence that’s very similar that we can explore in terms of trauma from, as I mentioned yesterday, rape victims, combat trauma, emergency services people, right? Ambulance drivers that come across these scenes. So there’s a lot of supporting evidence that we can, or supporting data, I should say, that we can go examine and do some comparisons. By the way, one of probably one of the most convincing scientific efforts that looked into this was some work by Dr. Don Derry from McGill University, a magnificent cognitive scientist. And he has written two books about the UFO phenomenon, about the abduction phenomenon. And one of his most prominent experiments was that he paid people to try to imagine what an abduction experience would be like. And then he had, quote, real experiencers. And then he plotted that data, and it was highly dissociable. So I want to see if, where is his book? You know, I’ll find a copy of his book and send it to you. But Don Derry, a magnificent scientist. And so I would refer your questioner to him, to both of his books. The second one’s probably more prominent in terms of that. And he does a great job. So there’s tremendous scientific evidence already established to support this differential of somebody who makes something up, maybe with some sort of parapsychology or pathology involved, and somebody who experienced it in all of its reality. That’s really interesting. I’ve made a note of that name as well. So thanks. Chris asks, Dr. Blitch, I’ve seen a few of your interviews now, and I’m wondering if you would be willing to talk about how your experiences with NHI have affected your religious beliefs and perspectives. And thank you for sharing. Yeah, you know, I talked earlier in the book about how upset I was with my father for propagating the Santa Claus myth onto me, right? Five years old, and I’m like, you just told me about John Glenn. And how can you expect me to believe that this chubby guy is going to make trips around the world and give out all these presents? And what about the kids in the desert? You know, reindeer in the desert? There’s no snow. It’s ridiculous. So I really pushed back on him. And then he tapped his around a little bit, and then he started laughing about how I caught him sort of red-handed. And then I gave him another dose like the next day and said, you know, how dare you ask me to lie to my younger sister about this? It’s one thing for me to bust you, and now you want me to be part of this conspiracy, right? And push that down on her. So soon thereafter, as an altar boy in an Episcopal church, and I loved it, our rector was a magnificent, big, you know, football player, gentle bend of a guy, just exactly who you would expect. And I had this experience where for the first time, because of a variety of conditions that I speak about in the book, I ended up as the sole acolyte at this service. I was only like 13, and the senior in high school, the 18-year-old kid normally carried the cross. So I had to carry the crucifix during this mass. I was the only altar boy that made it because my dad had a four-wheel drive Jeep, and he could make it through the snow. It was a big blizzard, blah, blah, blah. So I had this unique experience where for the first time, I was able to listen to a sermon, and I didn’t have to go down to Sunday school, you know, during the offering. So I’m listening to the sermon, and it’s all about forgiveness, right? And he’s talking about how important that aspect of our spirituality is. So I’m cleaning everything up in the anteroom behind the altar, and then I realized, oh, no, I’m late for Sunday school. So I run downstairs to Sunday school, and the teacher is talking about the great flood. And she’s talking about Sodom and Gomorrah and how, you know, God decided to flood the world to get rid of all the evil. And so I asked her a question. I said, hey, I’m sorry, you know, little Johnny in the back, right? The pin in the neck kid. And I said, I’m sorry, but I was just upstairs, and Rector Holton was talking about forgiveness. And so I don’t understand. Why didn’t God just forgive everybody? And her mouth opened and closed three times, like a stunned mullet, like a fish. And she wanted to say something, and she just she couldn’t address the question. And so she just dismissed everybody from Sunday school, like five minutes early and said, OK, well, you guys go get your coffee and donuts with your parents. They’ll be down soon. And she couldn’t handle it. And then she kind of walked out. I didn’t even have an opportunity to ask her. So I still have that question in my mind. But I also in that chapter, it’s kind of I don’t know if it’s in that same chapter or not. But here’s the thing. The Vatican back in 2008, Father Nunez, I think he was, he was the astronomer for the Vatican. He very clearly came out and specifically addressed the question between is there any conflict between belief in extraterrestrial life and God? And the answer was absolutely not. There is no conflict there at all. And I take this, I take this issue off the table every time one of my buddies says it, military guys, you know, and, you know, somehow or another, you know, even down in White Sands, in a break between what we’re doing down there, the question comes up, you know, when Socorro, New Mexico and the Lonnie Zamora case comes up. And, you know, what about, what about ETs or whatever? And one of my good friends, he says, look, I’m a God guy, okay? Don’t talk to me about aliens and everything. I’m like, wait a minute, it’s not binary. It’s not either or because here’s the question. Who made them? Right. And so that takes the argument off the table with anybody. If, and this is why, you know, if it is a galactic society, and I, I have direct personal knowledge with two members of that society, right? The little gray guys and the big mantis guy. And look at Richard Dolan’s book, the back of that many, many different species coming in here. Again, who made all of that? Right. So there’s, there’s no conflict in my mind between belief in God and belief in extraterrestrial life. It’s inherently there. And, and God is a level above, right? And so I have a chapter called Gods of God or God’s Gods to try to address that. So that’s the way I feel about it. It is not exclusionary at all. And the vast majority of religion is, is well intentioned. Just folks, be nice to each other. Nevermind who’s telling you that. Just golden rule each other, right? How would you like to be treated? Yeah, if life was that easy, it’d be wonderful, wouldn’t it? And I would love that as well. I’m not going to lie, but here we are. Percival asks, Jake Barber said he felt possessed by the most beautiful spirit that I’ve ever been possessed by since his, in his eight-gon retrieval mission. Are you worried that he could literally now be possessed by an otherworldly force, or could this be a new religious movement we are seeing emerging? It certainly could be a new religious movement, but I don’t think so. I would, I would recommend all your listeners, you know, maybe look at some of Diana Pasalka’s work. She’s got a couple of books out. American Cosmic is one. There’s one of them. Yeah, you got them. Yeah, there you go. Nice. So she, she kind of deals with this in terms of, is it a new religion? I don’t, I love her work and I have the utmost respect for her. I don’t necessarily agree with it in terms of this, you know, galactic society sort of thing. I’m not sure we all need to be under one religion or whatever it happens to be. But with regards to Jake, you know, of course, he has to answer that for himself, but I don’t consider it a possession. And I don’t think, you know, I think he might’ve been a little bit misinterpreted there. He had a, he was flooded with an overwhelming sense of love, loving, kindness, and sadness. And I’ve talked to him several times since then, you know, just recently. And, and the, the, the way I interpret it, and I may misinterpret it, but I don’t think so, is that it was more along the lines of, you know, the, the, the, the, the, the, the sense of this, this presence, feeling sad that we have to go through this difficult learning period. Kind of like, you know, you got to let your kid get beat up sometimes, or you got to let your kid touch the stove and, and get burned. Do you realize you can tell them a hundred times, don’t touch the stove, but until they feel the pain, you know, you kind of, it’s part of that lesson. I’ve also had some interaction, some text exchanges with Whitley Strieber about this possession, because he’s talked a lot about that, not just in Communion, but several of his recent books. So we’re due to maybe have a session of Dreamland coming up here where we talk about some of this. So, you know, it may be the three of us, me, Jake, and, and Whitley talking about that in the open. So, so not to kick that can down the road, it’s a very important issue, but I don’t consider it like a demonic possession in any way, shape, or form. And I’m, I’m pretty sure Jake doesn’t either, because it was a overwhelming positive event. So yeah, that’s, that’s the way I feel about that. That’s fair enough. Dave says, hello, Dr. Bletch, and thank you for your service and coming forward with your experiences. In an interview, Jake Barber mentioned that the government would have to be involved with any future civilian NHI craft summoning and possible retrievals. Would you care to comment on what is the expected government reaction or what the expected government reaction is going to be when you invite, when you invite and successfully get a physical craft to land? I, I, I just don’t know. As I’ve mentioned several times, I’ve never been read in on any government, anything. I’ve certainly been read in on special access programs, technology, special access programs. Had one myself for about a month, maybe two months, and it was canceled. So it never got anywhere. But I, I just don’t know. I would venture to say, however, that this upwelling of support for positive reach out totally transcends the government. And the government does not have to be involved. Anybody can go out and kumbaya and send positive energy out into the galaxy. And hopefully, you know, welcome visitors. That’s what Jake and the Skywatcher program is all about, is inviting. Let’s get, let’s invite them with, with feelings of love and positivity. And let’s get this dialogue going, right? So that we can eventually, from the bottom of the fishing net, tell the fishermen, quit catching us. We are dolphins. We are sentient. Leave us alone. Do some, use some other mechanism to do whatever you’re doing, because this is not right. So I think that’s, that’s the more of the focus. And I don’t think it requires a government blessing in any way, shape or form. And I don’t think really Jake, Jake does either. He may, you know, well, I don’t want to speak for him and the folks in Skywatcher. No, that’s fair enough. Maybe you can ask Jake to jump on himself and he can speak to me directly, because I’m sure people would like that. I would like to speak to Jake, but he’s a busy man at the moment, I’m sure. Craig says, Hi Andy, I’d like to know how do their, and by their he means Skywatcher, their plans, how do their psionics differ from CE5 protocols? So do you know much on that, John, the difference between what they are doing with these psionics and summoning craft to a CE5? Well, I have been involved in several CE5 events with Stephen Greer back in the 90s, early on. So I’ve been involved in a lot of those. And I have not been out to the field with the Skywatcher folks, so I cannot speak firsthand. But my limited understanding is that they’re very, very similar. And again, it’s the general idea is, you know, propagate positive consciousness and invite. Now, as I mentioned, you know, yesterday, Gary, Noel and I are the same mindset on this. If this is like a, like a honey trap situation, I want no part of it. And I don’t think they do either. So that’s not the objective to my understanding of any of that. Can I just ask on that then, because some folks believe that Stephen Greer is now in that honey trap, you know, whatever you want to call it, camp, where maybe back in the 90s and early 2000s, there’s a camp that believed that Greer had the right intentions, some good sources and the right idea. And perhaps that isn’t the case in 2025. Is that something you would align to? Do you still subscribe to the kind of Stephen Greer philosophy? I have not talked to Stephen since 1999. I think it was 98 or 99. So I really don’t want to speak for him or about him in any way, shape or form. I love his message. I’ve said before, I disagree with his assumption that all extraterrestrials are benevolent and that only the military does abductions. I vehemently disagree with that based on my own personal experience. But the other 99% of his message, which is, you know, propagate love into the universe, into the galaxy, I am fully on board with that. But I really don’t want to speak for him or about him in any way, shape or form. He’s the best one to answer those questions. Yeah, and that’s completely fair. And I think you’re right that regardless what people think, and I’ve shared my thoughts on Stephen Greer many times on the podcast, what I think doesn’t mean it’s right. It’s just my opinion. But that underlying idea of putting out positivity, love, kindness, whatever you want to call it, good energy, maybe you get something back in whatever shape or form that is. So I can’t disagree there. Stephen, probably not Stephen Greer, but another Stephen says, Skywatcher seems like the perfect way to disclose directly by bypassing the legacy gatekeepers and a way for disclosure to happen without uncovering all the illegal activities committed by the legacy program. So would you say that would be more beneficial for all sides? I guess, as I mentioned before, you know, the objective of my book is to find a path in all of this, these dark and light eddies, you know, the yin yang of life, right? We need to find a path to forgiveness. And again, my condition for me forgiving my own government is you got to come clean. That’s it. It’s just like my parents, right? You got to admit that Santa Claus is BS, right? Once you admit to that to me, I’m still going to be pissed at you for a while, but we’ll eventually get over and move forward. I think the government owes us that. And just in case any children are listening along with parents, I disagree with John that Santa Claus is BS, kids. So just covering your back there, John, that’s not one I can agree on, just on the off chance that there are kids listening with parents in cars. OK, fine. If you got kids listening to this, you need some remedial training on how to be a parent. Kevin says, given your background in military operations and robotics, have you ever encountered or heard credible reports of UAP interacting with a non-autonomous systems or military technology in ways that suggest intelligent control? Oh, absolutely. Yeah. And so part of the challenge with lose five observables when we’re talking about instantaneous acceleration, my background in UAVs back in the 80s and 90s, I wrote the first operational requirements document for little UAVs and little robots and stuff back in the day at SOCOM. And so part of the issue that this instantaneous acceleration and zigzag type of behavior is, you know, Luz talked about how if there’s a being inside that, if it was a human, you know, they would become tomato paste on the side of the wall, right? Without accounting for that relative acceleration inside. But it’s beyond that because none of our drones can handle a 25G force. Even the electronics, even the microelectronics in our devices, our cell phones, they can’t handle that either. And so there’s got to be an application of the acceleration to each and every molecule, each and every atom, each and every subatomic particle, quarks, you know, the spin, either any of those components are in that bubble. So in Luz’s book, third one from the top of your stack there, he talks about his discussion with Hal Puthoff about this bubble, sort of like the Star Trek warp bubble that applies to everything inside. And so you don’t have any relative acceleration. So, yes, there’s certainly a lot of overlap on that. There’s also, you know, when it gets down to the experiencer level, this notion of biological robots. And for me, that’s what was so terrifying, right? Is I’m not getting any emotional feedback from this being that’s grabbing my arm, right? If it’s angry at me, well, I can deal with that because I can get angry back, right? But if it’s nothing, it’s kind of like you mentioned children, you brought it up. So I’m going to go there. It’s kind of like a child who’s not being paid attention to. They’ll try to be good enough so that their attention that they get is positive. But if they don’t get anything, they’ll be bad just to get spanked. The spanking is better than being ignored, right? And so there’s that relative aspect of unmanned systems without the emotional content. And so that’s another big factor in this whole realm. And so that’s part of this. You know, I talk about the Venn diagrams, the overlap between my robotics world and my UAP world. And that’s where it kind of comes in right there is the role of emotion and the difference in how we interact with machines versus each other. That’s interesting. Paul says, I’d like to know how did John’s family and friends react once you’d made the claims around the seven foot mantis being? And do you know what your claims in general since then? How has that reaction been? I have been pleasantly surprised. Like Gary mentioned to me, he was pleasantly surprised that his career wasn’t suddenly over, right? It might have cost him the Nobel Prize. He was nominated and he didn’t get it. But I assured him, dude, you are still rocking the world. There’s no problem with you coming back around and getting the Nobel Prize 10 years from now. And you’re young, you’re healthy, you know, et cetera. So he kind of gave me quite a bit of optimism that maybe it’s going to be a positive. And for me, especially since I’ve stayed way away from social media, I’m probably not going to look at the chat for this or any of the interview just as it’s sort of a mental health protection mechanism. Mine has been fine. And a lot of my circles, my robotic circles, they don’t look at UFO stuff anyway. So maybe five years down the line or maybe in a month or so, they’ll start like, what? And, you know, we’ll see. But for right now, it has been overwhelmingly positive. And a lot of folks, you know, pat me on the back for having the courage, et cetera. And so all I want to do is divert that to other experiencers, whistleblowers, especially when it comes to this corrosive, corrosive leadership. And I hesitate to even use that term leadership, because part of leadership is being vulnerable, sticking your neck up, that you need to accept the risk first as the leader. Otherwise, you’re a manager and you’re just pushing. So it’s been positive and it’s welcome for more of that, obviously. And I will redirect that positivity to other whistleblowers as they come forward. Yeah, and listen, I’ve said before, the UFO conversation happens whether you’re on social media or not, folks. If you look at any social media platform and think this is too much for me or I don’t like the vibe or whatever, and you don’t want to curate a feed to your own liking, don’t go on. There are plenty of ways to focus and consume the UFO conversation that you don’t have to read everyone else’s opinion. It reminds me a little bit of, I don’t know how much you like comic book movies, John, or have watched them over the years. But, you know, Professor X and the X-Men has that scenario where he starts heeding everyone’s thoughts, is it cerebro he puts on cerebro? And he just hears everyone in the world’s thoughts before they can harvest it and harness it and narrow it down. Social media can be like that. Just a couple of minutes scrolling through X or Twitter or whatever it may be, it’s just like everyone’s brain dumps all in a feed. And it’s just some can be good, some can be bad. Some are just saying things they would never say in person or face to face online because it’s just a passing comment and it can be just that. So, yeah, however you want to consume any conversation, folks, it happens with or without social media. So it can be good to take a break or a step away from a promise. That is wonderful advice, and I’m really glad that you’re sharing that. Now, as a scientist, I have to be open to skepticism. Right. And I have to entertain that if I’m going to call myself a scientist. So skepticism is welcome. But this is the format to do it. Right. This is the format. If you want to come on eyeball to eyeball with me and have an exchange, then let’s talk about it. But again, willful negligence on your side is not something I’m going to address. I’m not going to be your daddy and spoon feed you all the data. All your listeners should go read all the books stacked up behind you and then maybe or read enough of them or skim them or something. At least come to the table with at least a modicum of knowledge. Otherwise, you’re a third grader talking to a college freshman professor. Right. You need to have some basic knowledge before we can even have a reasonable conversation. And so if you’re going to come in without doing some of your homework to start, I’m just not even going to have a conversation with you. Just like a college professor isn’t going to talk to a three year old, three year old, probably not seven or eight year old about quadratic equations or quantum physics. Just not going to happen. So. Yeah, totally fair. Carol says, Hi, Andy. My question for Dr. Blitch concerns the summoning and even operation of UAP by psionic practitioners. What is your theory as to what these objects are and why they would respond to human commands? Well, there’s there’s a multitude of hypotheses, plural of hypothesis that we can explore on that. One is obviously that they’re of extraterrestrial, extraterrestrial craft carrying extraterrestrial interdimensional time traveling beings. Again, I claim if you’re one of those, you’re all three. If you’re if you’re able to go faster than light. So that’s one possibility. Another possibility is that the craft itself is a living being. Right. I mean, we have we have whales and orcas bigger than us, and they could they could be carrying us inside, you know, Jonah in the belly of the whale. Right. But it could be that the whale itself is also involved. So so there’s that hypothesis. There’s there’s another possibility that that it’s all AI, it’s all mechanical, kind of like in the movie Oblivion with Tom Cruise and Morgan Freeman, one of my favorite actors of all time. So so there’s there’s any number of those. And I’m open to all of those at this point in time, because it’s, you know, until until the government starts cracking open those safes and we have access to the stacks and stacks of books behind you that are in the safe that’s behind your black curtain. You know, we just don’t we just don’t have enough information to even call data to even start testing these hypotheses. So that’s the frustrating aspect of the science part of it. But but yeah, I think there’s a there’s a wealth. So if you if a theory consists of multiple hypotheses, then then I guess that’s that’s the aspect. The underlying belief that I have based on all the the the data that I’m aware of is that we are living in a galaxy teeming with life. And that’s just basically a numbers argument, right? With in my generation, we went from web or Hubble to web. And though that that tremendous expansion of perspective that those little dots, the dust out there weren’t stars, they were galaxies. That was mind blowing to me in terms of, you know, the numbers game. So so yeah, that’s that’s probably my best approach to that one. And part of that question was, why do you think they respond at all to human command? Oh, yeah. So the response is, you know, consciousness, right? So when you look at the world, I talked about the the Institute for Near-Death Experience and all this research, the Monroe Institute, which and the telepathy tapes, right? So science is now so this overlap between UAP, UFO stuff and robotics is similar. And, you know, there’s another probably a spherical. So so instead of a planar Venn diagram, we have overlapping cubes, right? Or overlapping spheres. So the other sphere is consciousness, right? And so it looks like the more and more we dive into quantum physics, quantum mechanics, the more clear it becomes that consciousness is a thing, right? If you have this entanglement where this subatomic particle spins this way, and then this one way over here spins that way with all the separation, it makes all the sense in the world that human beings, you know, earthbound human beings can communicate with stuff visiting. And the distance is not necessarily as much of a of a boundary as we think. I think the way I’ve tried to and I’ve mentioned this before on the podcast, John, simplify what consciousness might be as if you went into the ocean and scooped out a glass of water and sealed it in a container. You then could take that glass of water around the globe with you for years, experiencing everything you experience. And after 20 years, that glass has had all that experience. You then tip it back into the ocean. It’s going back to where it came from. If you want to call that death or rebirth or the afterlife or going back to whatever this consciousness field is, you could then say, well, where is that water? It’s in the ocean. You can’t get it back. It goes back to source. But it then goes back into that kind of soup. And that’s the way I kind of think of consciousness and souls and life. That’s a wonderful analogy, and I love it. I think that’s a wonderful one. There’s a very similar one that plays out in Star Trek, Deep Space Nine with Odo the shapeshifter. And he goes back to the link and he mixes in, right? So that’s a fabulous model with which to think about it. Do you know what? Maybe that’s came from watching Deep Space Nine as a kid, because I remember Odo and yeah, I think I watched Deep Space Nine the night it debuted on UK TV with my gran. I used to watch Star Trek and Next Generation back in the day. So it won’t be a shock to people, I’m sure. Last couple of questions for you, John. El Californio says, would you entertain the notion that NHI engender strong emotional responses in humans to manipulate us, including positive feelings such as love, divinity and belonging? Would I entertain the possibility? Absolutely. Right. Look what we do. We manipulate. Look what actors get paid to do is to manipulate an audience, right? So absolutely, there’s plenty of that. But here’s the thing about consciousness, right? Is regardless of the container that that soul and that consciousness is involved in, I believe that we can discern intent. And that transcends that. And so when you look at our relationship with pets and animals, I believe they can detect or evaluate or assess our intent, right? And so canines, you know, you can lure a canine in and then stab them. Or do whatever you got to do, but they’ll be leery, right? And so I think that the consciousness gives me hope in being able to derive some sort of intent and maybe get to this identification of friend or foe with whatever is visiting us. And so I think that’s an important aspect of it. But we got to develop our own spiritual vibrations. We got to bring it up a little bit to get out of this kind of primitive warlike survival mode before we can even start to do that, right? So yeah, that’s a really key aspect of it. I wanted to go back though, since you brought up the Star Trek thing, or actually you followed my lead into the Star Trek thing. One of the, you know, debunker claims from, you know, getting back, this circles back into cognitive psychology, is this notion of framing and bias, right? So a lot of people claim that Betty and Barney Hill were influenced by, you know, the science fiction movies, the B movies and so forth, and that everybody that’s an experiencer has just been watching too much sci-fi. So I’m going to push back on that several ways. Number one, the beings that Betty and Barney Hill did not have big black eyes. They did not see the typical little greys on Communion. Those beings had yellow eyes, and they had like a cat-like iris. So there’s one point. Second point is, nowhere in the Star Trek franchise have I ever seen a little grey guy. I’ve never seen anybody, anywhere in the old, new, or any of the, what’s there, seven different ones now? Never seen a little grey guy with black eyes. It’s almost like with all the descriptions of all the beings in Richard Dolan’s book, in the end of it, it’s like they were trying to come up with anything other than the cover of Whitley Striegel’s book, which is kind of fascinating, right? It’s almost a proof of contrapositive. Why didn’t that happen? And find me another, you know, franchise like that. You had E.T., but E.T. didn’t have dark black eyes, right? They opened up, right? And he had the finger and all the rest of that. So it’s a fascinating aspect of it that this void in, you know, some of these, Star Wars bar, the Star Wars bar, I think he was a saxophone player. I was going to say, yeah. Yeah, or alto sax maybe. And he had the big black eyes, but it was all, you know, that wasn’t threatening at all. You’re an entertainer in a bar, right? And so, you know, coming back to this influence of science fiction on the experiencer world, I think that’s a red herring argument. And I talk about that in the book as well. And I think Steven Spielberg’s next feature film is E.T. based as well, so which is due in the next couple of years. So maybe that’s good timing. Who knows? Steven Spielberg has mentioned several times, somewhat cryptically, that he is much more aware than he has ever let on. So yeah, I’ll just leave that as it is. Yeah. And finally, John says, and I think I caught him off guard because he went, oh, wow. OK. So John mentioned and he means John means John Yoo. He mentioned a Robert Dean stating humans were involved in the abductions as observers only. So if there are humans at abductions or during abductions, there had to be an agreement. Is John aware of any agreements or does he believe there could be agreements allowing an exchange of technology for abductions? Oh, yeah, there’s a there’s a lot of literature about the alleged agreements between the Eisenhower administration in particular. There are a lot of stories about a sudden visit to the dentist that he had to make. I think it was in Palm Springs and he disappeared for about about a day’s time, you know, give or take. And the rumor mill was that he went to a Air Force base, met with some beings, and they told him that they would be willing to share their technology as long as he gave up his nukes. So there’s a lot of literature about that. As far as independent corroboration that takes that from data into evidence, that’s where things get that get squirrely. So unfortunately, I don’t I don’t have anything more corroborative than that. But I am well aware of a lot of that literature. Now, as far as what Sergeant Major Dean told me, you know, he he did have access to at least that one document when he was on staff duty, as I mentioned, and that was his, you know, I guess that was his doorway into the whole UFO subject. Now, and he, you know, he implied he didn’t he wasn’t very specific, because I caught him on the way to either he had just left the lecture, I think he was going to the bathroom or whatever, it’s a hallway ambush. So I didn’t feel like I was endowed with the authority or the or even the blessing to take too much of his time. But his his suggestion, his implication was that we were allowed to sort of spot check. It wasn’t like, you know, we were involved in every one. It was it was kind of like I mentioned with the UN Blue Helmet folks, right? They can’t be everywhere in Gaza. They can’t be everywhere in Bosnia when they’re trying to mediate and observe the ceasefire activities. So it was more of a spot check type flare. At least that’s the that’s the impression I got from that exchange with with the Sergeant Major. John, that is all for our interview now, because you’ve given us two hours yesterday, almost an hour again today. So thank you so much for your time. And I just want to give you the final word. What’s your hopes for your involvement, you know, in the coming months or year or years on the UFO topic? Yeah, I’m hoping that this can, you know, to quote John Mack, to change our worldview. You know, there’s this there’s this I don’t know if it’s a syndrome, but it’s kind of the I think of what they call the overview effect where astronauts, as soon as they get in orbit and they see just how thin our atmosphere is, and how fragile, you know, our little blue marble is, they’re they’re often overwhelmed with this, this feeling of, you know, lots of different feelings of sadness and, and pride and, you know, feeling diminutive and very small. So my hope is, as I mentioned yesterday, that this is a healing to the divisiveness that has taken over our globe. And I’m going to do everything I can to to amplify that is the best I can with the whole fear fighter aspect. And again, best way to fight fear is with knowledge. So educate yourself with podcasts like this. So thank you very much for everything that you’re doing and the risks that you’re taking on behalf of your fellow humans. Thank you. The biggest risk I take is annoying my wife by doing this too often. So it’s not too bad, folks. But John, thank you so much. And any links John has talked about, including the website for the book and whatnot, will be in the description for the podcast as well. So please go and check that out. John, thank you so much for your time. Thank you.