John Blitch — “Abductions & UFO Whistleblowers” (That UFO Podcast, Feb 11 2025)

Speaker: Dr. John Blitch, interviewed on That UFO Podcast. ~1h43m.
YouTube: https://youtu.be/8vJ4KGl-DbA (2025-02-11)
Captured: 2026-05-29 via yt-dlp audio → Whisper.
Primary (supplementary) for blitch-darpa-abduction-claimant. Covers his abduction account and the UFO-whistleblower landscape (incl. references to Haim Eshed’s “galactic federation” claim, Paul Hellyer, etc.).
NOTE: Whisper auto-transcript; verify quotes against audio.

This is Ross Coulthard and you are listening to that UFO podcast. Hi everyone and welcome back to that UFO podcast. My name is Andy and joining me on today’s show I have a former Special Forces cognitive scientist with a master’s degree in cognitive psychology and a PhD in cognitive psychology and neuroscience. He is a former nuclear weapons delivery officer among many professional and academic accomplishments. I’d love to welcome to the podcast Colonel John Blitch. John, welcome. Thank you Andy, it’s good to be here. It’s good to be here with you as well and I hope I’ve done you service in that introduction because your CV is incredibly rich, it’s incredibly storied. You have done a lot in your decades of service and then in your academic career going on to do PhDs and master’s degrees. It’s like you’ve not had anything to do with your time and thought, you know what, I’m just going to go and do a master’s. So you’ve educated yourself incredibly well in many ways. So John, thank you for joining us and what I want to do is start off with you giving the listeners and viewers a little bit about your background, your career and who you are. Okay, well thank you very much for that very effusive intro Andy. I just want to assure you that all I have done is stepped on mines as I wander around. So you go from one career to the next and it’s just a it’s a wonderful wake of mistakes but that’s how you learn, right? And so just one minor correction, my PhD is in cognitive psychology, it’s not a neuroscience. Like I like to say that I dabble in neuroscience so I knew I use EEG and other neurophysiological tools to look at cognition. So cognition is the main focus there. I won’t even pretend to know exactly what those would cover anyway. I’ve probably got like a one-sentence guess but yeah, absolutely. Listen, over to you. What is that kind of background John? What’s brought you to this point in your life because you have an incredible CV that goes back decades now. Well so, you know, essentially I started out as an army artilleryman. I like to joke that, you know, with a record number of demerits, my plea beer at West Point and a 2.41 GPA, the definition of military intelligence is that they then put me in charge of nuclear weapons, right? Which is still mind-blowing to me. But I did have some issue with that that calling in it and it came to me suddenly one night walking the gun line and I realized I’m not just practicing ending all life as we know it or killing somebody that never did anything to me, somebody to me, but that we were reaching with nuclear weapons, you’re reaching into the future. You’re poisoning that country over there. It was just East Germany versus West Germany, right? It was kind of ridiculous. So I had issues, wanted to get out of the nuclear weapons industry, applied to be a fighter jock, was accepted, but then had that revoked. I was headed to Pensacola to be Goose, the backseater and a naval flight officer. And the Graham-Rudman bill hit in 1986 and so all of a sudden I was, you know, kind of crossed a bridge. Matter of fact, I have a copy cup that says something to the effect of, may all the bridges, oh I should go get it. I’ll bring that later. Anyway, so that’s how I ended up in Special Forces because I was I was given the opportunity to command a Pershing 2 missile battery and I didn’t, I wasn’t good at it. I was in a rough place in my life and it didn’t really matter because the world was waking up to the need for peace, right? And so the Intermediate Nuclear Forces Treaty was signed. We did away for missiles and that’s how I ended up into Special Forces. So from there I spent a little bit of time for command tours with the attachments at 10th Special Forces Group and then went went to a special mission unit, dabbled in hostage rescue, like I’ve said several times. I was, you know, I was basically tolerated there. I didn’t do anything heroic in any way, shape, or form. And I know a lot of media folks love to pump us up and thank us for our service and I’m genuinely appreciative of that. But, you know, I was among many, many very selfless and courageous folks. So my only hope is that some of that might have, you know, rubbed off, sprinkled pixie dust, but that’s about all I can hope for. From there into graduate school, Uncle Sam sent me to study artificial intelligence for robotics and from there I ended up at DARPA with a stop through US OCOM and was a DARPA program manager for three and a half years. I was pulled back into DARPA to go to Afghanistan to use little robots to try to find bin Laden in the Tora Bora region. I had some some challenges in the aftermath of that. Went out on my own, started my own company, my second nonprofit, which got my little, my first nonprofit, got, you know, my five minutes of fame on the Today Show after 9-11. And from there, grad school a second time after I broke my leg, I’d love to give you some wonderfully eroded story because I broke my femur right after Hurricane Katrina and I would love to invent something that I was, you know, hauling people out of the floodwaters, but I was goofing around on a jet ski and ran it into a dock. And the unfortunate thing was that the water is in the bayou in Louisiana up around Lake Fouse Point State Park and I, I, they had to do a cut down and it got infected and I almost lost my leg. So that made me shut down my second nonprofit and go back to grad school the second time. First time was study AI and robotics and then the second time was cognitive psychology like we talked about. So that, that was that whole setup. I did do seven years at the Air Force Research Laboratory as payback for my second trip through graduate school. So, you know, when, when Uncle Sam sent you to school, they want to get something out of you, right? A little return on investment. So that was my seven years at the Air Force Research Lab. A couple of those years were teaching at the Air Force Academy. I was supposed to go out there to, to do research and collect data on young cadet brains, right? But when I got there, the policy had changed and I ended up teaching instead, which was great. It was a magnificent experience. So that, and then I’ve retired and obviously want to write a couple of books about all my many mistakes. And so that brings me to here. I’m an aspiring author and hoping to get this stuff kicked out soon. So a pretty quiet life up to now, going by that. It’s, it’s, it’s wonderful. And I don’t, I don’t doubt you would want to get all that down in paper because just trying to recall so much, and even to this point, some listeners and viewers will have heard you on with Ross Coulthart or on with Matt Ford on The Good Trouble Show. Others may be fresher to who you are and wondering, well, that’s quite the background, but what’s this guy got to do with UFOs? And that comes out in quite a big way. Normally I ask a guest to start off with their childhood experiences, if any. I’m going to wait because yours are quite profound and they do play a part in going through. So what I’m going to do is I’m going to start with your coming forward with Ross Coulthart and that News Nation exclusive a few weeks ago now alongside Jake Barber, Fred Baker, and Don Paul. And the four of you essentially adamant that there is a cover up by aspects of the US government and military, keeping the public hidden from the knowledge that non-human intelligence does exist. And to the extent we may have recovered craft, we may have bodies. Essentially, this is the holy grail of the UFO topic. This is what people have wanted. And here we are potentially on the precipice of progress. How has this come about that you ended up in the position where you’re sitting in front of Ross? Yeah, so it came about through two of the most prominent heroes in this this realm, you know, Lou Alessandro and Dave Grush. And then some others, Robert Hastings and a small group of our nuclear experiencers that I’m sure most of your listeners are familiar with. Bob Jacobs, Bob Salas, Mario Woods, Terry Lovelace, Jeff Goodrich. So what how it evolved was Dave reached out to me a couple of years ago after he had testified. And of course, a lot of the accusations and we call it the antibodies that came after Dave. It’s like, hey, wait a minute, you don’t have any direct experience. How do you? How can we take you seriously? And so he felt the need to, you know, have some of the folks with direct firsthand knowledge come forward. And all my role was, was to essentially encourage Jake and his team, Don Paul and Fred, and another unnamed individual to, to come forward as part of their, you know, life legacy. Right. And so, and my role was essentially, you know, to tell him my crazy story, right, about these two abduction activities that I’m very sure about. And then, you know, a bunch of others that I’m not so sure about, I can’t scientifically bring them forward and discriminate between those and dreams. And so I think probably the only level of success that I had is that those guys on my boat realized, okay, well, we can come forward, you know, and show the video of the egg, but we’re not as crazy as this guy. Right. And so it was a kind of a relative mechanism to, to encourage them to come forward. So that’s how that that all pretty much evolved. And then, then Ross came out and also stayed, stayed on the boat after, after they had left. And then he and Jake and I got together in a restaurant and off it went. And so I cannot, I cannot say enough about how heroic those guys have been, especially knowing they knew what they were getting into. Some of the folks that were whistleblowers, you know, 80s and 90s, you know, they weren’t sure. And then there were some very, there were horrific acts, reprisals taken against them. But Lou and Dave and Jake and Fred and Don Paul all knew a lot of the back splatter that would happen with them. And you know, Bob Jacobs had on all these folks have had horrific experiences come out, John Burroughs story. And so they did it knowingly. And that’s what puts them on the road pedestal in my book. What’s the reaction been to that coming forward? Because there was a huge audience for it. Millions of views, just on the YouTube site alone for the initial 40 minute piece, then the subsequent Jake Barber piece, your own individual interview along when then with Don and Fred, what’s the reaction been? And is it what you expected? I’ll ask you publicly first and then obviously privately. Sure. So I first want to thank Gary Nolan for his motivation in his spine, because he also put his entire academic career at risk. And what he confided in me was, hey, look, you know, after he came forward with his story with with the little guys in his room, he was expecting huge backlash. And he has fought against academic arrogance in the past and academic attacks in the past. And he told me that he was quite pleasantly surprised that it wasn’t as negative as he thought. Of course, there’s always going to be some trolls and some silliness. But overwhelmingly, folks were supportive. And it has been surprisingly the same for me. I really thought since I was way out there on that edge, I’m not just talking about lights in the skies, and beings in my room, I’m talking about how they grabbed me. Now, I don’t have any conscious memories of being on a table or any of that stuff at all. But just the fact that those bruises were there tell me that I didn’t want to go. And so that’s why I can classify that as induction. But surprisingly, I have not been attacked at all that I have seen. Now, I will say this, and this is a bit of advice, you know, from knowledge of cotton science and human behavior. I don’t pay a lot of attention to social media. I catch my Facebook account a long time ago after I was spying on my daughters wanted to see who they were dating. I don’t have an exit. Well, I have an exit account, but I don’t, I don’t post anything. So I’m a little bit immune of kind of protected myself, sort of vaccinated myself against these trolls and antibodies coming out. So for me, it has been overwhelmingly positive. And I think that’s a very strong indicator to what Jake said, in his interview, probably the most important thing he said over and above the feeling of love and sadness that he got from from this, this vessel. It wasn’t from the egg, I think it was from what he called the, the acorn or the octagon vessel that or, or craft or whatever the object was that he was hauling. So that that emotion was genuine. But what he said, the most important aspect was that it’s not going to be ontological shock. It is ontological relief. And that’s exactly how I have felt that this it’s like, under the surface, humanity across the globe is like, yeah, finally, this, this has not made sense for, for almost a century, three quarters of a century. And so, so it has been wonderful. And again, gratitude abounds to Ross, and Matt, and you, and so many others for setting the stage for this to not be an antagonistic discussion. And so that I have to defend myself, we can have an adult conversation, of course, disagreements are going to occur skepticism should be welcome, especially in the scientific world. But it has been so so in a nutshell, right? That was a long answer to a short question. I know. No, no. And you actually bring in my next question automatically with with that skepticism, the UFO community, whether it is on social media, whether it’s on on message boards, or people who listen to podcasts, read articles, however it may be, they follow the subject, are very skeptical of when anyone comes forward, whether it’s an individual, a group, and that could be within science or academia, even if it looks like they’re trying to do something positive, what would you say to folks who are maybe looking going, okay, here’s these four guys who have all come out, Jake’s telling this incredible story, there’s a video attached to a piece, which we’ll get to because I think that should be tracked separately to the video that was part of the News Nation piece. And then of course, you come forward further and elaborate on your own story. What do you say to folks sitting back and maybe are who are raising an eyebrow? Well, let me see. So four words that I think I think Gary said in a recent, it was either a recent interview or might have been in Seoul. I wasn’t able to tell him the second day I had to leave prematurely. But what he said was, to all those trolls out there, I think this was him. I’m not your daddy. It is not my job to convince you. And so it was my job as a professor at the Air Force Academy to share information and to try to inspire those cadets to think critically and use skepticism. But here’s the thing, you got to be skeptical with everybody, including the skeptics. Right. And so if there’s an irrational case being made, as long as it’s made respectfully, and I can point out that irrationality or the adjustment of the data, the big difference between data and evidence, by the way, and we can get into that down the line again. I bow down to Dr. Nolan and his group. But I guess that’s the gist of this is, number one, do your work, right? If you want to come into this conversation, you got to fight your own willful negligence. If you’re going to play like Arrow and say, oh, there’s no evidence. Well, and you’re not looking for the evidence, then that’s willful negligence. It’s almost like some people want plausible deniability. So in the intelligence circles, all the spy genre, there’s this notion that the president doesn’t want to hear that so that they can claim that they’ve never heard that. And that’s cowardice in my view. If you as a leader are intentionally insulating yourself for information that you need to make the right decision, and you’re not listening to it, I challenge you as a coward of leadership. You need that information. And you need to be able to absorb that to make the right decision for the best for your troops or your citizens or whatever it is. So do your work, I guess, is my short answer to that. And then if you want to enter into the conversation, I’m not going to ask you to know all of the literature. I always talk about my science literature on one side of my still yet to complete an office and, you know, the UFO literature. And what I’m seeing now is those are really starting to overlap, right, as we get into this legacy information. And now, you know, Lou and I’ve had quite a few conversations. And I’m like, yeah, and I think he’s surprised that I’m not surprised. I’m thinking in the back of his head is why isn’t he surprised? Everybody else, everybody in Congress I’ve talked to, their jaws drop. And I’m like, dude, I got all this frickin’ literature right here, 300 books. You’re not telling me anything new. All you’re doing is kind of validating what was out in open source. So do your work, I guess, is another short way of answering that question. No, that’s fair. Your thoughts, then, I said I would bring it back up on the egg video that accompanied that 41-minute NewsNation piece. I think there was a 40-minute piece and a 12-second video. And the 12-second video, I think, is always going to capture the imagination. I said a few times on the podcast, if you said to me today, John, that I can show you a two-hour interview with a whistleblower, a guy who’s worked in the program, or do you want to see a 10-second video of a UAP recovery? I think most people are going to say, show me the video. As fascinating as the interview could be and would be, and Jake Barber’s full interview is fantastic, including the context that was maybe missing from some of the shortened down version, that video is always probably going to take precedence. So that was poured over. What were your thoughts on that 12-second clip of the egg at the end of the canopy? Sure. I have a lot of thoughts, but first and foremost, I didn’t see any inconsistencies in that video. But before we get to that, I consider the video data, not necessarily evidence. Jerry makes a really good point about this, that in order to claim evidence, the data has to be considered in the context of a hypothesis. So what is the hypothesis that you’re putting forward? Is the hypothesis that there are extraterrestrial beings and this is one of the craft? Well, that might be a little bit weak because I didn’t see a three-fingered arm sticking out of the top of that. But if the hypothesis is that this is some other form of propulsion, since it didn’t have any wings, no tail, no wings, right? No even scenes. And yet apparently it had hovered and then fallen and gotten on the ground somehow or another. We didn’t see it moving and then slowly settled to the ground. So again, weak evidence, but within that, yeah, that’s weak evidence because without that. So the data versus the evidence is one factor. The second factor is video nowadays, especially with all of the AI-based reconstruction that you can do with the acoustics that we can overlay now and we can do the lip syncing sort of activities and make people make it sound like they’re saying something. Somebody might be doing that right now, where they’re using my lips to call your mother a bad name or something, right? Who knows, right? So I would say that current video is a little bit weaker due to AI than it used to be. But if you show me video from the 1950s of a crashed disc, wedged up somewhere in the former Soviet Union, yeah, because we can go and look at that and do some interpretation and you can analyze in the context of advanced technology, right? That back then we didn’t have the ability to smooth out those pixels, right? And so I would say that recent video is a little bit weaker than legacy video. But again, just because the evidence is weak, it’s still data, right? And so you can’t tell me that we have no data or that we have no evidence. Again, that’s willful negligence that you’re not looking at. And so that’s, I guess, the balance of my tap dance on that. I am far more interested in the narration that Jake and his team provide along with that and whether that syncs up, right? And if they’re looking at each other to corroborate their stories, and that’s why part of my validation with them was watching them interact with each other to see if there’s a synchronistic play that’s going out here. The actors are waiting for their lines, or if I throw a question in that they weren’t ready for, how do they respond? And at no time in all of my interactions with Jake and his team, in fact, I just had lunch with Jake yesterday, and there’s just zero red flags. And some of that may be my ego that I don’t think that I can be fooled, but I don’t know. I’ve had some training in trade crap back in my days, and then, of course, a lot of academic training in behavioral science. So I would say that the likelihood that they’re still fooling me as hoaxers one way or another is probably pretty slim. The Skywatcher organization is one that plays a big part in the piece, and this is one that’s really got people’s attention because it seems when you talk about data and evidence that one way or another Skywatcher will kind of either fall on its own sword or will grow leaps and bounds given what they hope to do with essentially, and correct me if I’m wrong, the use of psionics or psychic abilities potentially summon a craft or object and from there bring it to people’s attention in some way, shape or form. There’s a whole conversation around that. What are your thoughts and do you have any deeper involvement in that Skywatcher organization? Well, first and foremost, the conditions for me becoming involved in Skywatcher, and we did discuss this yesterday, are the same as with Gary Nolan. If I ever get the slightest hint that that team that I may end up as part of, I’m not yet, if there’s any hint that that team is luring these into the bear trap to shoot them down, I’m out. Gary has mentioned that. I’m in the same mentality because the worst thing we can do as a sub-level species in the galaxy is to start acting like Africanized bees. Honeybees are fine. Regular honeybees are fine, right? Look what we do. We transport them all over the world, right, to pollinate our crops. So, they all have stingers. They all can sting us individually and make us very sick collectively. I mean, if you walk into a beehive and you’re stung 20 times, you got some serious poison building up and so that can actually be life threatening. But that’s not like the Africanized variant that actually go out and attack, right? And so, if we go from honeybee to killer bee, we got very big problems as a global society. So, the minute we start shooting down anything that comes to our planet, the minute we start attacking anything that comes close to our hive, we risk eradication. And so, that’s the logic of it. Over and above just the sheer morality of it, right? How do you describe something as a threat without threatening behavior? And that really bothers me right now with this narrative. We don’t have threatening behavior that I’m aware of. Now, maybe the government deep down in the bowels of the Pentagon or wherever they’re, of course, it’s not stored in Pentagon, it’s farmed out elsewhere. If they do have direct evidence and there’s reason to believe that 1% of the galactic society might be malevolent, just like 1% of our society is malevolent. 1% of our population commits 99% of violent crime, right? And so, arguably, those are pathological people. And let’s face it, rapes happen, murder happens, torture happens, right? And so, from extrapolation, that’s all we can really do is out there, probably a small percentage of them as well. So, I’m not saying that we shouldn’t reverse engineer craft that have maybe crashed naturally, whatever, and develop those weapons to defend ourselves. I’m not saying that. Matter of fact, we definitely need to do that. The USS Enterprise should not launch on a five-year mission without photon torpedoes and phasers, right? But you want phasers that you can turn to stun, right? You want that advanced level of technology so that the only hope that an 18-year-old infantryman has in the alleyway in Fallujah is to kill that little girl at the end of the alley or not. Because, you know, she has her finger on what looks to be an iPod. How do you know? Is that an IED? Is that a detonator? Or is that an iPod? So, I talk about this a lot in my robotics book. But yeah, so, that’s the gist of that, my response to that whole thing. And you’ve talked about the notion, and this isn’t something that’s obviously new, but I say we, as a species, aspects of the military have in the past either deliberately or accidentally brought down advanced craft of non-human origin using radar. And as they turned up the radar’s power and range or frequency, I don’t know how radar works, I won’t pretend to, as it’s become stronger, they’ve brought down some of these objects. And is that a simple and safer way to potentially do that? Well, this is my belief. Again, I think with Ross or Matt, I made a big distinction between what I believe and what I know. You know, I believe my birth certificate, but I don’t know it, right, because I don’t have that direct, deep, emotional, consolidated memory. What I believe from all the research, you know, the invisible college research I’ve done for, geez, what, 60 orbits now, starting when I was five and reading some of my dad’s books and so forth. What I believe is that in the spin-up to World War II, the most advanced technology at that point was the directed energy that we were using in the very, very early development of radar. And Europe was, you know, at the very advent of that, Marconi and there in the UK. And so we were collaborating on some of that. And so after World War II had settled a course, even though peace is broken out, we’re not going to just stop any weapons development because humans being what we are, we’re probably going to end up in another war somewhere down the line. So at White Sands, which is this huge missile range that we used to bring our Persian IIs out to test fire. Yeah, I think they were ramping up the power and there was no intent to turn that into a weapon. They were just trying to increase the range of their sensor, right? It’s an active sensor though, instead of a passive sensor. So you got to send out this energy in the form of a modulated frequency that bounces off suddenly comes back. And so in the process of cranking up that power, I believe that they accidentally shot down this craft that they might not have even known was there. Look, if you can bend space time to to travel faster than light, FTL, then you by definition can bend photons that come around your vehicle and spit out the other side and you can become invisible. You could also travel trans-dimensionally. So I don’t believe in this binary, are there from the future or the past or whatever, or are they from inter-dimensional? They’re all of that. If you could do one, you could do the other two by definition in space time. So that’s what I believe in that process that yes, as we were fiddling around with our radar and ramping it up, we accidentally shot down a couple of craft and that is what of course spun up Harry Truman’s response and that started the cover up. The cover up was probably a little bit earlier than that, but they weren’t really vigorous about it. When that happened, they used the nuclear weapons cover and kind of blended this in with that. And that’s what I believe happened. And again, now as the government starts to trickle a little bit more and more, we’re getting independent corroboration of that, right? Maybe this memo and that memo, they really were true, right? Maybe there was a majestic 12. Maybe there was this, that, and the other thing. So that’s a little bit more than speculation, but it’s my belief at this point, but I’m open to alternatives, hypotheses to be tested. I’m open to alternative data and evidence to the contrary. This may be too direct a question, but during your time in charge of nuclear weapons, did you ever come across any UAP UFO scenario? No, never. Not that I consciously remember, but this is what I know about memory, is if you tamper with the hippocampus, oh, I should have, I’ve got my brain model back now, maybe we can do that some other time. But deep inside your brain, near the brainstem and that internal area, they’re called the basal ganglia. There’s a lot of substructures in there, the striatum, the hippocampus and the thalamus, those two substructures, like little horns deep inside there. If you tamper with that hippocampus, you don’t necessarily get rid of the cortical, the memories that are stored in the cortex. It’s like the best analogy, it’s not great, but it’s the best we got, is a computer. The hard drive that your RAM stores before, as you shut down your laptop, whether it’s a spinning disc or a solid state drive, it doesn’t matter, your random access memory, hopefully before you shut down your laptop as part of that, that all gets stored out in the cortex, right? And so when you turn your laptop back on again, the hippocampus acts like a router, and it goes out and it grabs those little bits and puts them back together. So if you tamper with the hippocampus, even though the memories are out in the cortex, you can’t get to them. And what happens is the Word document or your Excel spreadsheet, when it comes up, it’s corrupted, right? You get this corrupted thing. And so you can’t make sense of it. So it’s really important for people to understand that, and we know this from rape victims, from other forms of trauma, combat trauma, that you can overload that system so that when, and it’s like a natural defense system, right? Rather than feeling all of that trauma, your system overloads, and it’s out there, those memories are out there in the cortex, but your hippocampus can’t get to them. And so we know how to pharmacologically intervene and manipulate the hippocampus right now with our current technology. So it makes all the sense in the world, again, speculation, but it makes all the sense in the world that beings that would be even just a hundred years, if not a thousand, and dare I say millions of years in advance of us technologically would know how to manipulate our hippocampus with directed energy instead of with an injection. So I have no conscious recollection of any UAP, anything while I was on nuclear weapons duty. I did have some anomalous experiences that are a little bit weird, but I have not pulled the thread on those to explore them any further. Could you expand, elaborate a little bit on that as to what sort of experiences are you talking about? Well, you know, I swore to myself I wouldn’t do this because I just want to stick with those two scientific observations, my missing time from my mountain bike ride and waking up with those bruises, because I just can’t dismiss those as dreams, right? For one thing, one happened in the middle of a fricking day, right? They both had full daytime anomalous characteristics, anomalous environmental aspects of those that I just can’t dismiss. And I’m not sure I’m ready to talk about that other one yet. It was while I was on, I was walking the gun line as an artillery officer in Grafenwoehr, Germany, and there’s more to it, but probably that’s enough of a nibble for now, I guess. No, no, listen, I always appreciate anyone sharing any kind of experience, so especially when you’re coming forward as publicly as you are. So thank you for that, John. And I’ll be very selfish and say with the Rendlesham forest incident, I’ve just recorded a limited series with Wondery Plus called Encounters, and that is exclusively on the Rendlesham incident. Charles Holt was part of that, Nick Pope and Ross Coulthart, who you know well, are all part of that as well. So if folks want to go check out Encounters on audio platforms, they can. My shameless plug. But listen, I’ll bring you back in there, John. You’ve stated a major reason for this secrecy isn’t the lights in the sky or even the beings inside the craft, because really, other than ego, what is the reason to keep that secret? The true reason for the secrecy is perhaps the abduction phenomenon. And I want you to just expand on that for me for the listeners and viewers. Yeah, this is my effort to resolve in my mind that the 99 percentile of all the people I’ve served with, both in uniform and as a civilian in government. Yeah, look, I’m an optimist. I believe the vast majority of humans are good. Some people, especially if they’ve gone through childhood trauma, I can imagine them having a pessimistic view towards this whole situation. And I will also say that I commiserate and I applaud our intelligence community for their pessimistic view, because they are paid to be pessimists, right? As a commander, I always had to evaluate what the intelligence officers, what the intelligence section was briefing me on, right? And if they were pessimistic and convincing enough, I might not even launch the operation. I might have to go back and say, you know, sir, my boss, boss, I don’t think this is I don’t think we should attack right now or I don’t think we should conduct this operation. These are the reasons the intel guys are telling me this and the other thing. So the worst thing that can happen for an intelligence officer is to not brief you on a threat and then you lose all your guys. You lose, you lose the battle, you lose everything. And so they have to be inherently pessimistic. So they look at the world, they, they’re, they’re, to use John Max terminology, their worldview is inherently pessimistic, right? So if something comes into your airspace that you don’t understand, threat, gotta be a threat. So I understand that and I appreciate that perspective, but I vigorously disagree with it because just like when I walk out my front door and I can walk down the street, every, my neighbors that are walking their dogs, I don’t consider them a threat and I, I don’t, I don’t think any of us should until there’s a behavior that suggests a threat, right? And just because they cross the street, even in New York city, just because somebody crossed the street to my side of the street, doesn’t mean they’re going to attack me, right? And if they have, if they have a pit bull and that thing’s chomping at the bit and kind of barking at me and everything, all right, now, you know, that barking, that behavior, now I might reach for a, a blade or, or prepare myself, or maybe I’ll just walk across the street to the other side. So without that behavior, I don’t see how we can call it a threat. And so for the government to keep using this term threat infuriates me because we need to, we need to be brought, brought the evidence of this threat. And so, as I’ve said many times, I’m sick and tired of our government treating us as children, right? And pretending that everything’s fine. There’s no monsters, there’s no such thing, you know? And so that’s, that’s where the abduction phenomenon comes in, because as I, as I said, I used to abduct my Labrador retriever to the vet about every three months, right? He didn’t want to go. And he knew it when we got close. Getting him in the car was no big deal. But, but the smells, you know, dogs lived through their nose, canines lived through their nose. And so I don’t know if he, he saw the vet’s office first, or he just could sniff it from the parking lot. Maybe he smelled formaldehyde or whatever, I don’t know. But he’d be terrified. And I would, I would have to literally physically bring him into that office. So this kidnapping notion that some beings out there are, are plucking humans from their daily lives and subjecting them to some sort of, and it may be a very necessary procedure, and it may be helpful, right? We do have a lot of evidence that experiencers have, have been healed after their experience. Tuberculosis from the hunter in Wyoming. I have had probably a hundred other people tell me about their experiences where they came out of it with some sort of healing. So that, that doesn’t automatically present a, a benevolence as the main objective. What, what all behavioral scientists have to do is we have to submit our research protocol to what’s called an institutional review board. Because in the aftermath of the Nuremberg trials from World War II, you know, never again are we going to allow POWs to be experimented on with these horrific procedures. So, so we have to submit our protocols, our research protocols, our experimental protocols to an independent review board to make sure that, you know, there are no human rights violations. So Haim Ached, right? General Haim Ached says there’s a galactic federation, right? Paul Hellyer, defense minister of Canada says there’s a galactic federation. Kathy Martin and Denise Stoner and Dr. Melanie, so they have, as they have published in their book, Forbidden Knowledge, scientific evidence of a psionic interaction with what they call the Council of Apes. So there is data out there that suggests that maybe there’s some sort of galactic, you know, IRB, institutional review of any of these species that are coming to, if you’re going to mess with the humans, here’s the rules. You got to remove their memory so that they are not traumatized for the rest of their life. So that makes sense to me, right? And so it’s not, it’s not full malevolent, it’s not full benevolence if the reason that they’re taking us is to conduct, as I said, you know, biological environmental assessments, right? So we used to do this, we use a lot of animals, we sample their tissue, and we look at how much pollution has been absorbed through the interaction, the bioconcentration from food sources, and it gets into these animals’ tissue. And so we sample that, right? Mad cow disease, right? Things of this nature. So their main objective may not be total benevolence, but it’s not malevolent, and they may heal us because they want to come back and sample us again, right? And so it’s almost like a symbiosis for a lot of this. That’s what that literature suggests, if you take it on the whole. And so as the government kind of comes back around and says, okay, yeah, you know what? Sorry, there really is extraterrestrial life out there. And yeah, there’s a lot of them, and they have been visiting us for quite some time. And some of them may even be as horrific as organ collection, right? So I have on my driver’s license, it’s upstairs, on my driver’s license, I have a little heart on my driver’s license says, I’m willing to be an organ donor. So if I die in a car accident, yeah, give my eyes to some, well, not my eyes, I got lousy eyes. But give whatever, whatever, you know, body part seems to be functional, give that to somebody else so they can live. So I have no trouble believing that a flying saucer in the logic that a flying saucer or an egg or disc, whatever it is, lands after a battle, and picks up dead corpses, so that they can use that tissue to benefit others. It’s, it’s, I have no trouble believing that sounds horrific, right? And the interpretation from an intelligence report might, might just absolutely stun and shock a council of generals. And, and I could, I could easily see that resulting in Harry Truman declaring war against all ETs, these are demons, these are evil. Whereas, look what we do, you know, when you go to the morgue, and you know, you grab a heart or a kidney to transplant for somebody else, and you’re preserving life. So just because body parts are found on a crash flying saucer, doesn’t mean you’re dealing with a malevolent species or number of malevolent species. I disagree, I challenged that argument. But that’s how I feel that good people in this cover up have been convinced to do what they do, that it’s too terrifying, that that yes, we found body parts. And these are, you know, and they’re convinced into fighting a covert war. And, and Lord knows, we’ve had plenty of covert wars, just in our lifetimes, right? Nevermind, you know, back eons. So, so yeah, that the notion of the abduction phenomenon, and that we can’t do anything to interdict and prevent our kids from being taken. That was too scary for the last 80, 80 years. But I believe, again, this is belief, not knowledge. I believe that that’s why this trickle, they have opened the faucet, and the single drip every 10 years. Now, it seems like it’s not just every year, it seems like now once a quarter, every quarter of the year, we get another big breakthrough. So the most recent big drip was Jake and his team. And I’m convinced that’s why all those guys are still alive. Because the government wants to come out and do this. And so, you know, the focus of my book is, is the rationale to forgive them, but they got to come full open kimono and admit that yes, 99% of them are less than malevolent. But there’s 1%, maybe not. And that’s why we needed to charge you $3,000 for a toilet seat on a C-17 aircraft, right? That’s why we had to do this coverup was we needed to fund the reverse engineering. So now that we can interdict. So if we know one of those craft coming in does have malevolent intent, then we can do something about it. And that’s this super gray area of this whole issue and the super gray area of psionic. And I never answered that part of the question. Look, science supports telepathy. It is scientifically supported. The telepathy tapes, Harvard research, phenomenal research. I have my own personal experience where I, this is not belief, this is knowledge. I know that I had a psionic experience myself. So we could talk about it some other time, but that’s where this all, to me, that is what connects all the dots, right? That’s why good people could do bad things and intimidate people to including the children of Jesse Marcel being threatened with their life. Fear is the root of our treating each other badly, right? It’s this fear. And so the website I’m about to launch for both my books, the robotics book, to tamp down the fear of killer robots and this to tamp down the fear of a galactic society, that’s fear fighters is the name of that website. So we’re about to put that up. And so hopefully we’ll be able to take some pre-orders, see how that goes. I’m going to get to the book because the other book I believe is on the abduction phenomenon, the abduction amnesty not with K-N-O-T and capitals. And it’s the case for forgiveness and the disclosure age. We’ll get to that because what I’d like to do is just touch on, because I think it follows on nicely and the book can come up here as well. You yourself have had events and experiences and this is where the childhood or going back years comes into it. Because we mentioned before, you mentioned, sorry, two events and people might be thinking we’d touched on them or they’d missed it. They hadn’t. One was a story where you’re riding a bike and there’s missing time involved. The other you touch on with the bruises. Do you want to go over those stories and you can fly past them if you want or you can give detail. I’ll leave that up to yourself. Yeah, all I’ll do is reemphasize that they’re irrefutable in my mind because the only thing that connects all the dots on those two experiences is the notion that I was taken by a non-human intelligence. That’s the only thing that I can come and I’ve tried. And if this is what I’m really excited about talking with Karin and the Jimmy that Johnny E Mack Institute is the commonality of that amongst all of us. Randall Nickerson was one of John Mack’s patients and he went on to produce the aerial school documentary, a phenomenal documentary. So he and I have talked several times and I’m really looking forward to connecting up with him as well. But I shouldn’t try to represent all experiences but he and many, many others have all said, or many have said, I shouldn’t use all to be that. You know, look, we humans try to categorize everything and put them in bins. And I refuse to be put in a bin as X, Y, or Z, red, blue, yellow colors, whatever. But a lot of folks told John Mack in distress that they were hoping that he was gonna find pathology because then he could at least give him a drug and make it stop, right? But he couldn’t. And because he was such an honorable man and very compassionate and a healer by profession, he couldn’t bring himself to do that, right? And so we typically, at least I tried to dismiss, I was slicing through any other possible explanation. I would welcome alternative explanations but I got to use Occam’s razor to slice through it because it doesn’t make sense. It’s like sleep paralysis. All you people that, you know, want to dismiss us with sleep paralysis, you’re full of baloney, willful negligence. Go study sleep paralysis, get into it. Spend six or seven years in graduate school, studying it. And what you’ll realize is it only lasts a few seconds when you get taken out of very deep sleep. A few seconds, maybe a minute, maybe a couple of minutes. At the three sigma tail end of the distribution of possibility, it ain’t gonna explain seven hours. So quit playing this silly sleep paralysis game. It’s a ridiculous attempt to obfuscate and dismiss valid stories and valid anecdotes that experiences tell you. Now, I wanna address anecdotes. Anecdotes are data, okay? That doesn’t mean it’s not as strong, depending on the hypothesis, it’s not as strong as evidence as an independent radar return or a thermal image, right? But it is data. And so we need to take that into account. So I did the best I could scientifically to dismiss those two memories and I can’t. And so they still resonate with me and I still get, I just got it again. You get this emotional tingling associated with those two. A lot of the other ones, because I didn’t have independent corroboration from some other witness or some other data, I can’t, you know, I can’t fall on my shoulder with those. But those two, I just, yeah, that’s my summation or restatement of those two events. So the first one, do you want to just give a little detail on each of them then as to what actually happened within them? No, I’d rather not. I’ll just let you and your readers, viewers or whatever, go watch the Ross Coulthart interview. Because here’s the thing, you know, the trolls out there are just waiting to say, oh, he said red on this one and now he’s green or this or that, and they’re going to pick you apart. And I just don’t want to get into that, right? So I said what I said, if anybody wants to have a one-on-one discussion with me and look me in the eyeballs so we can look at each other and try to determine, you know, veracity from that, looking at body language, smell the pheromones. So here’s the thing, you know, we human beings, we get a bad rap, right? Danny Kahneman, magnificent, you know, Nobel Prize as a psychologist, I think he and Amos Tversky, by showing that humans are risk accepting and gain and risk averse in loss. And so they called into question with a lot of very compelling evidence that humans don’t always make good decisions, especially when it comes to finances, paying for a car. We overpay for this, that, and the other thing. And so this is back in the 70s and Wall Street, of course, a lot of the grifters glommed onto that and realized that these human tendencies in our lack of rational reasoning when it comes to our finances, even in the barter system, it’s not just with currency, that we have vulnerabilities. And so that led to a backlash against human cognition. There’s still a last to this day. I claim there’s an inherent bias against humans because look, this is how you get published, right? You show how stupid humans are, and then you go toil away on your keyboard to write a bunch of code, to create a machine learning algorithm to fix what is wrong with humans, right? And so there’s a lot of money in presenting to the world how stupid humans are, but we’re actually pretty good because we’re still arguably somewhere near the top of the food chain on this planet. Now, there may be other civilizations with one or other water bases. Maybe there is a, maybe the center of the earth is all, I don’t know, but we’re still looking pretty good. And so we’re not as dumb, we’re not as bad at reasoning as everybody thinks. And we’re not as vulnerable to ontological shock as everybody thinks. We are a very resilient species. And so this, you know, dumbing down of things really bothers me where we, you know, sort of oppress. So humans are really pretty good at detecting lies and deceptive behavior in each other, especially like what happened with me. I’m presented with four people and I’m looking for consistencies across all four. Now you might be able to fool me one-on-one, right? Especially if you’re a really good actor, but to get four people all in that same environment, and I’m trained to live for inconsistencies, both academically and operationally. And so I think that if you want to talk to me one-on-one and you want to evaluate my experience, I’m up for that, right? As long as you are not going to pull this, you know, ridiculous, lazy reluctance to look at the evidence on me. If you’re going to declare this, you know, what did I call it? The plausible deniability thing. If you’re going to shut your eyes and then come at me blind without doing some homework, then I’m not going to have time for it, you know? And so again, a tribute to you and your podcast, because you obviously have done your own. Look at all those books behind you, right? At least you read, what, 10, 15? That’s better than a lot of folks. And you probably got more than that. Yeah, I’ve got some more on the other side. And to be fair, some of those I’ve not even read, but I’ve listened to the audio books, but I was saying that as well. So sometimes day to day, I literally have the book, but I have to drive. Louis Elizondo’s book was a great example of where I read a chapter in the house, had to go on the school run, listen to a chapter back and forward. So yeah, but that’s modern technology for you. But you’re putting the effort in, Andy, and that’s the important, I don’t care what medium you use. Matter of fact, audio books, I think, especially if the author is narrating, that helps me a lot, that helps the believability. Now, I understand why some people hire professional narrators, I’m not, but I understand why some people want to do that, and I have no trouble with that. But at least you’re putting the effort in so that you’re not coming up with ridiculous speculations that have no basis in science, no basis in evidence, just because you’re not even looking at the data. Yeah, I’ll put the link for the Ross Coulthart interview, which I’m sure many folks have seen, and that does have the detail. But what I want to ask is, based on your experiences, you believe there are at least two species visiting this planet. You know, we’ve got small grays and mantis beings, and these are beings that have been covered throughout ufology and the history of the topic, they’ve been written about, it’s been well-documented, especially through experiencers. And I want to ask you on that, so the mantis being story is one that’s particularly scary to think about, because it’s, aliens can be scary enough to consider, and all these different appearances and looks and whatnot, but that tall, seven-foot mantis-type creature is such a paradigm shifter, I think, for many folks. And you said you had this connection that you were told, you know, this body we have is a container, it’s a meat suit, it’s a receiver for consciousness, a soul, whatever you want to, however you want to word that. And you said they check us over like a mechanic looking under the hood of a car. You know, we’re just checking this, it doesn’t matter, we’re not interfering with the engine and what makes you really tick, we’re just looking at all the artificial aesthetic stuff. But for you, going through that, and what we hear from experiencers, there’s a pain attached to it. You mentioned seeing blood coming from your cheeks being pulled, and that’s horrific to experience, it’s traumatic, regardless of them repairing you afterwards, you know, fixing it, people maybe not feeling the pain of what’s happening to them sometimes, but does that not show a lack of understanding of what we are on their part, or is it that they see themselves above us? Yeah, on the contrary. Well, first of all, I want to be clear that that was mental imagery. That was mental imagery. I, at no time, you know, it wasn’t like I looked in a glass mirror reflection and saw this. It was the mental imagery, and the impression that I got from that was, because I had still just come off of seven years as a warrior in command of other warriors, the impression I got was that they needed to use violence, a mental imagery of violence, to get my attention. And so, but overall, it was a very benevolent flavor to that whole experience. I think I mentioned, and if I hadn’t, you know, I am willing to elaborate now, that after that experience, I would go escort insects out of the house. I would never squash a boat. And my wife was, at the time, she passed in 2014, angelic woman by any measure. Even she was like, what are you doing? I mean, for crying out, because I would go to great lengths. I’m like, stop, go get a glass. So they’d have to go up to the kitchen if we’re in the basement and go get a glass, and I’d bring out, slide a little piece of paper, and then we would escort the bug outside the house, right? And so my daughters were kind of, so it was one of those notions of compassion, putting yourself in their shoes, respect for life, and so forth. And I did have a chat with, Gary about this recently, and, you know, it’s a fascinating aspect of evolution on this planet. Insects are way older than us, right? In terms of evolution, as are reptiles. And so I really got to push back on the folks that are, you know, kind of like the threat narrative, this notion that they’re reptilian, so they gotta be bad, or they’re insectoid, so they gotta be bad. That’s a crock. Look at the variant of behavior in just our species on this planet, no matter what color skin you have, right? Which is fricking ridiculous, right? Look at the variance that we have just in one skin color. You got great, phenomenal, spiritually, you know, angelic people, and then you got people raping and murdering folks, all within the same skin color. So the same thing applies to the galactic society, right? You got good bugs and bad bugs. You got good reptiles, bad reptiles. You got good greys and bad greys. I mean, it’s just, it makes no sense for us to yield to our inherent tendencies, our arrogant, anthropomorphic tendencies to bin everybody into one or the other. So I gotta take that off the table. So I considered that entire event to be actually a benevolent interaction. Used imagery of violence to get my attention, and they sure did, because obviously, you know, I’m still getting the goosebumps, right? Which is really, really important, because this is what we know in the cognitive neural world is that deep emotional memory lasts, it’s durable, whether positive or negative. So if I asked you to remember, close your eyes, I used to do this to my cadets. Close your eyes, think back to the first time you were kissed, right? When you had that first romantic experience. And what the cadets would do, they would write like a, they would fill up a sheet. And then I would do it again. Okay, now close your eyes. And I want you to remember back to the first fight that you were in, your combative, you know, where you’re injured. And they would fill up a sheet with all the details, what it smelled like, what the scrape on your elbow felt like, what it felt like for your fist to hit that person’s face or whatever, or to pull air or choke them out or whatever. But then when I asked them, okay, let’s do the same, you gotta do this, scientifically control all your variables, right? Now I want you to think back to what was for lunch in the mess hall last Tuesday. Two sentences maybe, nothing, right? So the deep emotion, this has been replicated time and time again throughout cognitive psychology, deep emotion lasts. It’s a durable memory. And so that’s what I felt that that being was doing for me is look, remember this, no matter what happens to your body, if other humans torture your body, whatever it is, they can’t get to your soul. And so that was a gift to me. It was not, I know when I tell the story and I’ve had people, I’ve told this in a very small group of other experiencers. We had a wonderful gathering at Robert Hastings house last summer, a bunch of our new brotherhood, we called it. And we shared stories. I told Ross, there’s things that you will share around a campfire, as an angry monkey, it’s the hairdresser confession, right? And so when I told that story, somebody actually had to get up and leave because they got ill, they got sick to their stomach because it is pretty traumatic, especially if you have had a similar incident, right? So it’s triggering, and so I totally respect that. But here’s the thing about fear, right? The best way to fight fear is not to ignore it, right? The best way to fight fear is to choke it out, get in there with it, wrestle it to the ground and choke it out. Now I know that sounds combative and it is, but to continue this mollycoddling that our government is doing, okay, little kids, it’s okay, there’s no such thing, don’t worry about it, it’s BS. And now what we’re seeing, as Jake pointed out, we have sensed it, for 80 years, we have sensed it. And now we’re like, that’s it, that’s why it’s gonna be an ontological relief. So I know that was a long convoluted response, but yeah, that was a positive experience that I now consider an educational gift, just like a lot of our lessons when we’re kids, right? That was a gift that you got spanked and sent to bed without dinner or whatever it was. And that can be down to the individual as well, that you’ve chosen to look at it as a gift and others may not. And I think that’s probably true of life, isn’t it? We all have different experiences and how you choose to perceive them. Do you learn a lesson from them and try and grow and use it positively? Or do you shrink back and allow it, like you say, that kind of fear to take over and some situations, well, what can you do? So go about it and live your life. So I appreciate that. Another element of this you touched on was obviously the small grays. And you talked about there are sentient beings, which you believe mantis types would be. And I would agree with that from what people say. And then you’ve got these small grays, which I think more and more common or popular belief are they are robotic in some way. People say things like third generation artificial intelligence or… Have you got any hypothesis, whether it’s from belief, some kind of knowledge or experience, who or what may be sending those types of beings here and why? Yeah, so I’ve got two prominent thoughts about that. Let me get the first one out of the way before I forget it. And that is getting back to this benevolence notion. One hypothesis I have has to do with hypnosis. And that this is based on the very prominent work of David Spiegel and his father, both world renowned psychologists who dove deep into hypnosis and have used it tremendously effectively to help so many people, so many patients. And I think it was David’s father who invented the Spiegel eye roll test, which measures someone’s susceptibility to being hypnotized. So not everybody is equally hypnotizable. Folks with high anxiety who have a difficult time relaxing tend to be a little bit less… I don’t know, I don’t know. They tend to be a little bit less, I shouldn’t use the term vulnerable, but for lack of a better term, susceptible, maybe a better, softer way to deal with it. So my hypothesis is that the experiencers who were more susceptible, more receptive to hypnosis had more of their memories of their traumatic experience removed or stuffed further away so that the hippocampus couldn’t get to them. And that allowed them to lead relatively normal in heavy quotes lives. So Terry Lovelace is a good example of this. I mean, he not only left the Air Force Academy and became a lawyer, which is pretty good, right? To use the GI Bill, but he was a phenomenal lawyer, became a district attorney and assistant general attorney for the state of Vermont and I think even Samoa. And he would be a great person to maybe interview at some point down the line. But I don’t think that he would have been that successful just after his traumatic experiences if he wasn’t more vulnerable to hypnosis on that end of the scale, the Spiegel scale, if you will. And the eye roll test isn’t the only one. There’s other, that’s just a rough estimate. Andrew Huberman does a great podcast on it and the Spiegels themselves have lots of great stuff to research and dig into on your own. But, so that’s one factor. And I am grateful for that being, Terry calls his guy, Dr. Bug, I’ll just call my guy the grasshopper, if you will. I’m indebted to them for removing that memory or clouding it up because I don’t think I would, if I had wallowed in self-pity over what had happened to me I never would have gone on. I certainly wouldn’t have finished that PhD. I certainly wouldn’t have ended up at SOCOM, at DARPA and then starting my own company. I wouldn’t have had the confidence to do that. So there’s a benevolent aspect of memory tampering. Like I told Ross, I think, or Matt, if I could remove or interdict the consolidation of my Labrador retrievers memories of every time he went to the vet, I’d do it. Because then the next time it’s not gonna be as traumatic. And so there’s that aspect to it. So that’s sort of a benevolent aspect of it. And now the second point of, again, this is speculation. This is belief. This is not knowledge, but it’s a hypothesis that I do want to test. If it is testable, and that is that the stoic nature of the little gray guys versus the tall gray guys. And again, this literature that Invisible College literature is full of stories of abject fear being portrayed over the relationship with the little guys. And then when the big one comes in, big grays, sometimes they’re a little bit whiter, then you get a feeling of love, right? And so it’s like the worker bees were only in charge of bringing you to the sentient being. And the sentient being conveys these loving things. Look, we’re not gonna hurt you. We need to do this. In many cases, the need is projected or communicated telepathically because they have lost the ability to procreate. Maybe it’s because they’ve been doing so many cloning activities that they’ve lost the emotional component there that is really, really valuable. And so they wanna get it back. And it’s one thing about humans that you can’t deny. We’re pretty emotional beings, right? Compared to the other, and the way that we act out with our emotions. Certainly other mammals species, when you look at the animal kingdom and queendom, right? In this, on this planet. Certainly other species have emotional ties with their young and so forth. But we’re very, very energetic. With our expression of emotion. So maybe that’s what some of them are interested in. Others may just be looking at the pollution. Others may just want us to quit polluting the planet so that they can come visit on vacation sometimes. Who knows, right? But there’s all these different agendas. Richard Dolan wrote a book called Alien Agendas that really tries to capture this notion. And it’s a great reading, has a great description, graphic description of a lot of these beings out there. So for me, the abject terror came from those big black eyes and their emotional, their telepathy was pure control, pure paralysis, paralyzed everything except the motor control area, which tends to go right across the crown of your cortex, the middle area. So that’s accessible, you know, that’s accessible from a shallow sense. And then, you know, maybe directed energy through their eyes to get to our brainstem so that we’re ambulatory, right? So they don’t have to float us. Sometimes, you know, many experiences describe, especially when they’re young, they’re floated out of their rooms through a window, through the ceiling, whatever it happens to be. And then the older you get, you know, they’re just walking you along, right? Maybe because over time they’ve used, you know, post-hypnotic suggestions to say, hey, look, we’re gonna come again next time, quit squirming, right? Just go along with us. We’ll make it as quick as we can. We’ll get you back to your regular life and we’ll give you a post-hypnotic suggestions. Kind of like, you know, in Men in Black, right? When Will Smith and Tommy Lee Jones was like, you know, and give him a good memory, right? At the end with the flashy thingy. So that’s how I felt was, let’s give him, let’s have a positive impact on his life so that he can get along with us today. And so that we can come back and get him later if we need him again, right? So those are those two hypotheses. I’m pretty sure that if we, we can find a cohort, a good cross-section of abductees, experiencers, and we measure their hypnotize ability, we may find a correlation between, I don’t know if success in life, success in life certainly isn’t how much money you make. It’s certainly, our society is upside fricking down on that. Success should not be measured in how many airplanes you own or what your bank account has, right? It’s influence and lots of other many intangible aspects. But we may be able to establish a correlation between this hypnotize ability factor variable, if you will, and the many variables that capture, I don’t know, anxiety of life or maybe whatever success in life might be. So I’d really like to explore that down the line as a, that’s a testable hypothesis. I’m not sure the other one is. You know, it’s hard to, it’s so grayish. Yeah, that was a pun, right? So grayish in its constitution that it’s difficult to test. I’m starting to get a bit tight on time and I’m not gonna get anywhere near the listener question section. I’ve got a couple more to do. If I wrap up on the book and then one big question I’ve got to finish on, have you got any time in the next few days to give me like an hour to go over listener questions? Yeah, we might be able to do that. I’m a little strapped the next two days, but maybe next week or so, we might be able to do something early tomorrow. Yeah, sure. Yeah, I’ll text you just cause like, I’ve got so many good listener questions and that doesn’t count all the ones I’ve left out. So I don’t want to rush you through them at all. And I’d rather do it cause I’ve really enjoyed this. So I’ll ask you these two, I’ll remove that section and then we’ll wrap up and do listener questions. We’ll sort that separately cause I’d really like to do that. So I’m being greedy taking so much of your time, but thank you for that, mate. No worries. I’ve locked off on mine, so we’re good. Just double check, right, cool. So you mentioned the book and I’ll say again, it’s the Abduction Amnesty Not, and I’ll let you talk about the title there cause the spelling’s unique and it’s The Case for Forgiveness in the Disclosure Age. Talk about that title for us and also what do you want the book to achieve? Yeah, so I modified the subtitle a little bit. I think it’s A Case for Forgiveness in the Disclosure Age. And that is the objective of the book is to inspire forgiveness threefold. The first forgiveness I want to inspire is for our global society to forgive our governments for this cover-up because from their perspective they were doing the right thing. They were privy to knowledge and information that we were not privy to because it was so scary, right? If you were the president or the prime minister and you were brought these pictures of body parts on a crash flying saucer, God, that sounds horrific, right? Or if you were brought pictures and video clips of, and I do know that at least one of these exists, a video of a cow, a farm animal being brought and suspended in a beam and brought transported. And in one of the many cases, it actually hit a tree. And so it sort of brought up a hilarious image of a drone pilot losing track and like, oh, don’t, and knock the thing into a tree. And then you see these corpses of these farm animals, mutilated in kind of a horrific way. So those are really scary aspects of this, not to mention that your kids, my kids can be taken out of their beds, right? Or off their bikes or at a bus stop, right? So that is a terrifying aspect that warranted protection in the immediate aftermath of World War II in particular, because we were still at war in our heads. We were at war in our souls, right? So I want our society, our global society to forgive our own government and try to put ourselves in their shoes, what would you have done if you were Harry Truman, right? That type of thing. So that’s the first level of forgiveness. The second level of forgiveness is actually, maybe I have those reversed. Maybe the first forgiveness is my path to forgive the praying mantis dude, the little gray guys. They’re just doing their job, right? They’re just collecting samples. I saw a very fascinating and heartwarming interview with George Knapp and Jeremy Corbell just recently when they were talking about their investigation of the Calaris incident in Brazil, where the claim was that these craft were coming out of the water and attacking humans in that village of Calaris. And then George’s big breakthrough was that they discovered that they weren’t being attacked, that they were being sampled, that these craft would shoot like a filament out and collect a tissue sample from the person and then fly away. So now, yeah, you got a scar, you got some bleeding, right? So when it looks like an attack, but in actuality, you might be minimizing the damage that you’re causing because you’re minimizing the radiation from your craft. It’s got to radiate because it needs that for propulsion. And you know, that’s temporarily damaging to the skin of some of your folks, maybe if it’s not ionizing. So there’s different variants and that gets technical, but it could be that they were staying remote and just launching these little dark collectors so that they minimize their contact. So it might be a sign of compassion, not necessarily benevolence because it’s certainly traumatic for the people that are getting sampled. But I thought that was very interesting. So we need to forgive them for what they did. Now, we’re like the dolphins caught in the net, right? Quit fricking taking us for food. We are sentient beings, stop it, right? And so we do deserve to reverse engineer weapons so that we can defend ourselves from this. And so we need to defend both of those entities for what’s going on. And hopefully that’ll raise our, I know this is gonna sound woo woo, but look, there is science of consciousness. There’s an entire department of a major research university in Virginia that has 3000 cases of reincarnation. And that was like 20 years ago. I don’t know how many cases they have now. And then you’ve got, as I mentioned, the telepathy papers and all the rest of this. So my intent with this book and the word not is to capture the gray and difficult, complicated, complex nature of it. It’s to inspire that level of forgiveness. And then third, forgive ourselves for being scared, for being a coward. I go through this all the time with my brothers and sisters in arms, right? You were scared, everybody’s scared. It happens, right? And just because you didn’t run into a hail of gunfire and put yourself in front of all your mates, right? And to win the medal of honor, that doesn’t mean you’re not a hero. You’re a hero for signing up in the first place, for agreeing to accept risk on behalf of your fellow countrymen and fellow humans. So that’s the three levels of forgiveness is to get to that. I think I need to block the sun here. Yeah, we’ve been recording that long. The sun’s rose from where you are. We’re almost there for this. And I’ll just tell the last part now. The plan here, John, was to go even longer, but because we’ve gone so long and I’ve got commitments and I don’t want to spend your whole day doing this, we’re going to record the listener question section separate. So hopefully that comes out in a few days after people hear this, but we’ll arrange that. And I’ve really enjoyed this. And I want to finish off, John, asking, in the immediate future, we have, I don’t have to tell you this, a lot of political upheaval right now in the United States in various forms. That is going to probably have some sort of impact on the UFO conversation at different levels. We have Skywatcher planning to do something a bit special potentially. You have the Sol Foundation. You have the Galileo Project. The upcoming Age of Disclosure documentary is due to premiere in March with some huge names attached to that. And I know we often hear about hype and coming soon and everything’s going to be huge and massive, but people say that could move the needle. We shall see. How do you see things playing out in the coming months with the way the UFO situation is? Yeah, so thanks. That’s a great question. And it’s something that I didn’t address with the other objective of the book, which is to unify, right? So here in the United States, we’re very split right now. We’re blue and red and we’re suffering through that. And I’ve said probably in my last five or six lectures last year, academic and otherwise, that I bleed purple. And I want all of us to bleed purple and to unite, unify as a result of this. Because once we realized, as Reagan said, in his speech to the UN, wouldn’t all of our differences seem trivial if we were confronted by a threat from outside this planet? I don’t think it’s a threat. I think, as Jake said, it’s an ontological relief. Finally, we can talk about it. And so come together as a species and quit looking at our differences and look at our commonality. And so I’m very hopeful that despite politics, whatever you believe, I’m very hopeful that this next administration in the US brings this forward and uses this disclosure process as a unification agenda. And I’m very hopeful that Marco Rubio, again, regardless of politics, that he as a pro-disclosure politician is now in the position at the secretary of state. So I said this at the end of my lecture with Jim Garrison for Ubiquity University last March, I think it was. And I brought, I showed a picture of the red US and coming together and bleeding blue or purple in the middle. Look, the military has been in charge of this for 80 flipping years. And we had some degree of success. We had some degree of malfeasance mixed in there. And I’m not gonna deny that there are, again, there’s a 1% in the military. There’s a 1% in the military industrial complex that is just as selfish and corrupt and pathological as the general society. So I’m certainly not gonna deny that there are some bad apples, but we don’t want it to let it destroy the, or to ruin the whole batch, right? And so I think it’s time for this issue to be transferred from the Department of Defense, at least here in the United States, to the Department of State. We need to start taking a negotiation approach to this as an outreach to a galactic society. And so I’m super excited that Marco Rubio can maybe accept that torch, maybe even reach out for it from the Department of Defense. Maybe Hegseth and Rubio can come to some sort of agreement. I would love to see a football play where Hegseth hands the ball to Rubio, right? And then he runs it into the end zone or whatever. But I think that absolutely needs to happen because our warrior mentality towards this is not for the best of humanity. And we need to do that transition. So that’s my optimistic view of the future. And I hope your listeners accept that and embrace that as their optimism that maybe something very, very positive come out of this. I think we’re bound to be paddling through whitewater for the next few years. It’s just inevitable. But hopefully there’s an eddy field or an eddy pool that we can pull into and embrace the calm here before too long. So that was the other comment I wanted to make to you is that from your description of my CV or whatever, that I’ve had nothing but whitewater, but that’s not true. I’ve had some wonderful calming timeframes and I feel very blessed for that. Well, listen, John, I’ve genuinely really enjoyed talking to you and you’ve got some refreshing opinion and takes and ideas on the topic, which I think are very welcome and a subject that can be quite repetitive or self-fulfilling or an echo chamber. So, and that’s refreshing to hear, especially in a podcast like that. So thank you. Have you got a date yet for publication of the book? No, I don’t. I’m still, I’m trying to be gentle with some aspects of the manuscript and I’m really kind of tripping over myself. At some point, I’m just going to get to the point where it’s just, you know, and a lot of authors go through this. I did this with my robotics book. My robotics book was supposed to be out more than a year ago, a year and a half ago. And then somebody convinced me that you really need to put it through the DOPSER review process. So it’s still stuck in that. But this one, since I’ve never been read in, I don’t see a need to go through the DOPSER process. So it should be soon, but I’ve just got to convince myself that, you know, you can’t mollycoddle everybody. I want to be gentle, but firm. And I just, so I’m kind of hand-wringing about that right now. And it’s only like a 5%, but it’s the 5% that’s really important. So soon. And we’ll be standing up a website to take at least pre-orders or comments on any of the interviews to maybe guide that. Maybe there’ll be such an upwelling from folks that, hey, look, we want the details on these events. We want to know what happened to Sergeant X, blah, blah, blah. And maybe that’ll push me over the edge to just let go and just let it be what it is. So we’ll see how that goes. Well, I know, and you’re saying soon. I have a whole Discord chat that always love that phrase and that word coming soon or soon. They will be all over that just for you. So thank you. Listen, we’re going to stop it there. Oh, go on, John. Yeah, I want to make one more point. And you could take this to the bank. In both books, I pledge to take 55% of the proceeds of that book and give it back by sponsoring either therapy for experiencers in the case of the abduction book or therapy for first responders, not just my brothers-in-arms in the military, but first responders who have been traumatized at the World Trade Center, because a lot of it’s about the World Trade Center. And that’s my approach to give back. Tithing is one thing, one-tenth, but I feel compelled to go the full 55%. So it’s more than half, because whatever success I have enjoyed has been standing on the shoulders of so many others. And so I want to make that very clear right from the get-go, and maybe that’ll dismiss some of these trolls, like, yeah, he’s just trying to put money in his pockets for the book. And I have some expressions that I might use with them one-on-one, but I won’t share with you here. That’s all right. And listen, you’re never going to get rid of that. You just have to learn to embrace it. Yeah, it is. It’s a very, very good thing you’re doing there, especially from a charitable point of view. So I’ll make sure to pre-order both of those when they’re available. But John, we’re going to call it a day. I’m going to get you, I dropped a message in the next couple of hours once I’ve done my stuff, and we’ll arrange to get you on for the plethora of listener questions that have been sent in as well, okay? Okay, thank you so much, Andy, and applause abounds to you for all the risks you are accepting on behalf of your fellow humans. Thank you. That is all for this episode. Thank you very much for tuning in. Don’t forget to leave the podcast a review on your chosen platform. Apple and Spotify do make a huge difference to the algorithm. If you’re checking the show on YouTube, please don’t forget to like and leave a comment on here as well. Any sharing you do is very much appreciated on any social media platform. And finally, you can listen to shows ad-free and sponsor-free in their glorious full versions by subscribing for less than the price of a coffee on Apple, Spotify, just search That UFO Podcast Premium, YouTube, you can sign up and be a member, or you can do that through patreon.com. Thank you very much for listening, folks. It wasn’t a tic-tac and not quite a saucer, more like a hubcap designed by Chaucer, a little baroque and quite steampunk, like Alice was playing bass for the Parliament of Fog. The little fucker hovered right outside of my window, and when I shoved out the screen, he made it an issue. I don’t think he expected me to see his ass, but I’d had some champagne and smoked him over it. I don’t think he expected me to see his ass, but I’d had some champagne and smoked him over it.

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John Blitch — “Abductions & UFO Whistleblowers” (That UFO Podcast, Feb 11 2025)

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