Ross Coulthart at the Disclosure Forum — “The disclosure lawmakers” (Reality Check, NewsNation, 26 Jun 2026)
Source: Reality Check with Ross Coulthart — NewsNation field segment recorded at the Disclosure Foundation’s Disclosure Forum 2026 (Kennedy Caucus Room, US Capitol, Washington DC). Host Ross Coulthart with Meagan Medick. URL: https://youtu.be/fRr9kI-aBdc (NewsNation; 2026-06-26; ~31:21). Captured: 2026-06-28. YouTube auto-caption transcript (timestamps retained; ASR artifacts — “Coltart”=Coulthart, “Megan Medic”=Meagan Medick, “biccameal”=bicameral, “Steven Miller”=Stephen Miller). Provenance only; analysis: coulthart-career-and-claims and uap-disclosure-schism. What this is: Coulthart’s on-the-ground report from the same Disclosure Forum, focused on the UAP-caucus lawmakers. He recounts conversations with Reps. André Carson (who chaired one of the first UAP hearings), Anna Paulina Luna, and others on the bipartisan progress of UAP oversight over three years, the renewed UAP Disclosure Act push, the amnesty question (the word recurs throughout), and the Trump-administration engagement at the level of deputy chief of staff Stephen Miller. It sits chronologically between the 21 Jun “big position” Q&A (coulthart-realitycheck-qa-2026-06-21) and the 28 Jun schism Q&A (coulthart-realitycheck-qa-uap-schism-2026-06-28), and is the companion lawmaker-side report to the broader Disclosure Forum itself (disclosure-forum-2026-kennedy-caucus-room-2026-06-25).
[00:00:05.839] Hey, I am Megan Medic with Reality Check [00:00:08.000] with the one and only Ross Coltart. We [00:00:10.400] are taking a field trip. We are in [00:00:11.920] Washington DC for the show today. We are [00:00:14.639] at the disclosure forum in the capital. [00:00:17.440] Our friend Ross here has been very [00:00:19.199] active talking to congressmen, senators, [00:00:22.080] and he’s going to tell us a little bit [00:00:23.119] about what he’s seeing. [00:00:24.400] >> We are standing Megan. Hi, by the way. [00:00:26.800] It’s great to be on the road with Megan. [00:00:28.400] We are standing right outside the [00:00:29.920] Kennedy Caucus Room, which is I was told [00:00:32.719] it’s the location where the Titanic [00:00:35.040] hearings were held after the Titanic [00:00:36.880] disaster, where the Watergate hearings [00:00:39.200] were held, where they probed the Nixon [00:00:41.440] administration’s alleged crimes relating [00:00:43.520] to Watergate and the Iran Contra [00:00:45.840] hearings. And hopefully hopefully one [00:00:48.399] day they will be probing the dirty [00:00:51.120] secrets of the UAP mystery. But wow, [00:00:55.039] what a day. We’re here for the [00:00:56.160] disclosure forum. [00:00:57.039] >> Yep. Absolutely. You’ve talked to a [00:00:58.559] couple congressmen already. We’ve sat in [00:01:00.399] on a couple panels. [00:01:01.760] >> What have you heard? [00:01:03.359] >> What I’ve heard actually has given me [00:01:05.199] more room for optimism about the [00:01:07.760] president’s intentions. I I’ve been very [00:01:10.400] cynical. I’ve been very cynical that [00:01:12.720] there’s any meaningful disclosure coming [00:01:14.640] out of these UFO drops in the last few [00:01:16.479] months from the Department of War. But [00:01:20.159] for what it’s worth, even the Democrat [00:01:22.720] members of Congress are saying they [00:01:24.560] think President Trump is serious. And I [00:01:27.600] had a a Q&A with Anna Paulina Luna, [00:01:30.240] Representative Luna, which you’ll hear [00:01:32.640] later, which gives me great room for [00:01:35.200] optimism. And I do think that the [00:01:37.920] administration is seriously thinking [00:01:39.520] about an amnesty and that is an amnesty [00:01:42.159] that will allow whistleblowers to come [00:01:44.000] forward to tell all about the crash [00:01:47.040] retrieval program. [00:01:48.560] >> So Russ, something that I have seen [00:01:49.840] today is we are hearing a story line [00:01:52.960] that we’ve heard before. A lot of the [00:01:54.799] things that the congressman are saying [00:01:55.759] on stage and those whistleblowers are in [00:01:57.040] the room that we personally know and [00:01:58.240] we’re saying hi to, they’re repeating a [00:01:59.920] lot of the things that they’ve said [00:02:00.719] before. I think that’s almost the point. [00:02:02.880] The point that they’re trying to make is [00:02:04.719] let’s keep speaking. Let’s keep saying [00:02:06.320] it because it is working and we’re [00:02:08.560] actually seeing that in real time with [00:02:09.679] what the president’s doing. [00:02:10.800] >> Well, I was talking to Andre Carson, [00:02:12.720] Representative Andre Carson, who was the [00:02:14.560] chair of one of the first UAP hearings [00:02:17.680] that were held here in the Congress, and [00:02:19.840] he actually chuckled and said to me, [00:02:21.680] “Can you believe we’ve come this far in [00:02:24.000] 3 years?” And it is. It’s quite [00:02:25.760] something. I think sometimes we forget [00:02:27.120] the progress that’s being made. We’ve [00:02:29.680] gone from this being a fringe, taboo, [00:02:32.959] stigmatized, ridiculed subject to senior [00:02:36.239] congressmen and women and senators. It’s [00:02:38.560] a biccameal issue as well on both sides [00:02:41.040] of the house engaging with this issue in [00:02:43.519] a serious and considered way. We’ve got [00:02:45.920] the administration involved at the level [00:02:48.000] of the deputy chief of staff, Steven [00:02:50.000] Miller. So things are happening and I I [00:02:53.120] don’t know if I can predict what’s going [00:02:54.720] to happen, but being here on the ground [00:02:56.959] in Washington, I am a lot more [00:02:58.879] optimistic than I was even two weeks [00:03:01.280] ago. [00:03:01.680] >> Yeah. And you you can see the stigma [00:03:03.840] aging out and going away. We were at an [00:03:06.239] event last night and there were a [00:03:08.480] younger generation there. There were [00:03:10.319] professors there talking about how [00:03:11.519] they’re teaching courses in this and how [00:03:13.200] the younger kids is probably a terrible [00:03:15.599] word, but the younger generation of like [00:03:17.360] college age students, late teenagers, [00:03:18.879] early 20s, they don’t understand the [00:03:20.239] stigma. They’re like, “What’s the what’s [00:03:21.760] the big deal about asking that? What’s [00:03:23.040] the big deal about studying that?” So, [00:03:24.560] it seems like we’re getting into a [00:03:26.560] better place with that. [00:03:27.440] >> You know, it’s really interesting. I was [00:03:28.480] I was just as you were saying that, I [00:03:30.000] was just thinking I I exchanged a glance [00:03:32.560] with somebody in the audience today who [00:03:34.560] I know is a potential whistleblower. [00:03:36.959] >> Okay. [00:03:37.519] >> And they’ve already left the room. Okay. [00:03:39.920] >> But they came because they wanted to get [00:03:42.799] the feel. They wanted to get the mood. [00:03:44.560] And I’m going to talk to that person [00:03:46.000] later. [00:03:47.120] >> And I get the feeling that they came to [00:03:50.080] test the water to see what the mood is [00:03:53.120] for disclosure. [00:03:54.720] >> And I hope they’ve gone away optimistic. [00:03:56.560] >> Yeah. [00:03:57.360] >> Because the the big thing now that we [00:03:59.120] need is every member of Congress, every [00:04:01.599] senator that I speak to, they basically [00:04:03.439] say we just need the evidence. You know, [00:04:06.239] we need to know where to go and look. We [00:04:08.400] need to know who to talk to. [00:04:10.640] >> We need that direct evidence. And those [00:04:12.720] people are sitting there in the wings. [00:04:14.319] They’re waiting. But what they need most [00:04:16.799] of all, Mr. President, is an amnesty. [00:04:20.320] They need the ability to feel sure that [00:04:22.320] if they breach their NDAs, if they [00:04:24.880] breach the terms of the contract that [00:04:26.880] they have with Northrup, Grumman, [00:04:29.280] Rathon, Loheed, Martin, Boeing, if they [00:04:32.800] breach the terms of those contracts, [00:04:34.720] then they will be protected. And that’s [00:04:36.960] what the indemnities are that need to be [00:04:39.199] required because if they don’t do that, [00:04:41.199] nothing’s going to happen. [00:04:42.080] >> And it was vice versa, too. If somebody [00:04:43.600] from those private sector businesses [00:04:45.360] were to also speak out, it would be, you [00:04:46.960] know, no retaliation against them. [00:04:48.479] >> Yeah, absolutely. [00:04:49.520] >> Yeah. Which would be agreed. [00:04:50.880] >> So, yeah, I mean, I hope I haven’t got a [00:04:52.880] flush of blood to the head and it’s just [00:04:54.320] a momentary lapse. Maybe it’s the jet [00:04:56.400] lag, but for the first time, I am [00:04:58.400] feeling reasonably optimistic there. I [00:05:00.560] think the most heartening thing is that [00:05:01.919] this is bipartisan. [00:05:03.360] >> Mhm. [00:05:04.160] >> Both sides of the house. and they [00:05:05.680] actually seem to like each other. [00:05:07.360] >> What’s going on? Politicians politicians [00:05:09.600] actually liking each other and uh and [00:05:11.919] being pleasant with each other on [00:05:13.440] different sides of the house. [00:05:14.320] >> Like you and me. [00:05:14.880] >> Oh, wasn’t that nice? [00:05:17.919] >> Yeah. So, I look, I’m I I think there’s [00:05:20.080] a lot to be feeling good about, [00:05:22.720] >> but uh I I think we’re at a very crucial [00:05:26.080] time. This is a tipping point, and if it [00:05:28.880] goes the right way, we could see [00:05:32.000] something interesting happening. [00:05:33.520] >> Well, I’m so thankful that we’re here. [00:05:34.720] I’m so thankful that we to reality check [00:05:36.080] on the show that you flew in all the way [00:05:37.919] from Australia to be in our nation’s [00:05:39.680] capital for such a big moment. We can [00:05:41.360] probably get back in the forum and see [00:05:42.880] who’s on the next panel and what we can [00:05:44.560] learn. And [00:05:45.199] >> can I say also it’s so gratifying to [00:05:48.000] have so many people, the general public, [00:05:50.639] just walking up and saying hi and how [00:05:53.120] much they appreciate the work that we’re [00:05:54.720] doing. [00:05:55.440] >> It is so gratifying. I mean, in [00:05:57.199] Australia, people walk up and say hello [00:05:58.800] to a journalist and then they generally [00:06:00.320] abuse you and call you a mongrel. In [00:06:02.240] America, they actually say nice things. [00:06:03.840] They’ve been very nice to you. They’ve [00:06:05.680] been very nice to you. I’ve been [00:06:06.800] following around um keeping him in check [00:06:09.199] because [00:06:09.840] >> she stops me from swearing. [00:06:11.199] >> I Well, I have to I never know what’s [00:06:12.800] going to come out of your mouth and [00:06:14.240] people come up to you and start a [00:06:15.440] conversation with you and then I have to [00:06:16.800] like wrangle you in because um you start [00:06:20.000] saying things and I’m like, I think [00:06:21.039] that’s classified. Um so, we’re going to [00:06:23.680] we’re going to pull it back. But, uh [00:06:26.000] >> I I have to be uh yeah, Megan keeps me [00:06:28.000] polite. She she keeps me decent. [00:06:30.400] >> But no, it’s great being on the road [00:06:32.000] with you. much appreciated and uh we’ve [00:06:34.080] got some interesting stuff to bring you [00:06:35.440] in coming days. [00:06:36.400] >> And here are Ross Coldart’s exclusive [00:06:38.080] interviews with members of Congress. [00:06:39.680] >> What are your priorities at the moment? [00:06:41.680] >> Right now, right now, our number one [00:06:43.440] thing is bringing our list of [00:06:45.680] whistleblowers that are requesting [00:06:47.680] immunity to dulge information, whether [00:06:50.400] that’s pertaining to specific programs [00:06:53.600] potentially and allegedly crash [00:06:55.840] materials and or biologics. But either [00:06:57.919] which way um my job as an investigator [00:07:00.560] is to follow up on that and see if [00:07:02.000] there’s any there there. And so we have [00:07:03.599] talked to the White House. They are [00:07:05.440] considering immunity and or you know [00:07:08.160] protections for these people to divulge [00:07:10.160] information. [00:07:10.560] >> Can we go into the details on that? I [00:07:12.080] was really struck that you got it back [00:07:13.520] from Steven Miller that he’s thinking [00:07:14.960] about amnesty. [00:07:15.840] >> Oh, Steven’s great. [00:07:16.880] >> Yeah. So what’s he talking about there? [00:07:18.560] Is he offering a full broad amnesty or [00:07:20.720] is it amnesty on NDAs? [00:07:22.639] >> Well, no, no, it would be full-fledged [00:07:24.560] if they can provide information. and [00:07:25.919] they want to talk to them first, [00:07:27.039] obviously, make sure that they’re [00:07:28.000] credible and, you know, run backgrounds. [00:07:30.080] But, um, he’s talking about full-fledged [00:07:32.160] amnesty. [00:07:32.880] >> And do you get the feeling from the [00:07:34.400] White House they’re serious on this? I [00:07:36.319] mean, it’s very easy to be skeptical. [00:07:38.000] >> No, I will tell you, I’ve worked with [00:07:39.599] now multiple administrations. Um, but [00:07:41.840] specifically to this, I want to remind [00:07:43.440] people that when I first got the task [00:07:44.639] force, I think a lot of people thought I [00:07:46.240] was being set up to fail. And this [00:07:48.400] administration [00:07:49.280] >> I did think that. [00:07:49.840] >> Yeah, I think a lot of people did. And [00:07:51.440] now it’s the hottest task force in [00:07:53.120] Congress. [00:07:53.919] >> It is. But um you know specifically to [00:07:56.080] that we have been able to deliver some [00:07:57.759] pretty big wins and they’re all playing [00:07:59.039] well. You know a lot of people that were [00:08:00.240] skeptics see it and they’re no longer [00:08:02.560] skeptics. [00:08:03.680] >> Well frankly let’s be brutally blunt [00:08:05.520] about it. You’re getting traction. [00:08:07.039] You’re getting media attention. You’re [00:08:08.720] getting public uh attention. [00:08:10.400] >> Sometimes not always the best. But yeah. [00:08:11.919] >> No. No. But it’s good. I mean I the [00:08:13.759] thing I’m really struck by is the public [00:08:15.759] want answers. [00:08:16.960] >> Yeah. It’s a massively popular [00:08:18.400] bipartisan issue, not just here but in [00:08:20.400] the world. [00:08:20.879] >> Yeah. And are you finding that with your [00:08:22.639] congressional representative colleagues? [00:08:24.319] Are they are they jealous of you? [00:08:26.080] >> No. Well, I don’t know. You can read [00:08:27.759] different articles and I’m sure they [00:08:29.039] make statements, but um there’s a lot of [00:08:30.639] good camaraderie that we found that’s [00:08:32.240] bipartisan and the we call it our [00:08:34.560] unofficial unofficial caucus, the UAP [00:08:37.120] task force. Um because it’s under the [00:08:39.279] task force of declassification of [00:08:40.719] federal secrets, but you know, the group [00:08:42.880] has grown and we have a lot more dems [00:08:45.040] that are involved now. We have fun and [00:08:47.040] you know the the name the nickname that [00:08:49.600] we are given is um the the space trash [00:08:52.560] caucus and so we say that because in one [00:08:54.480] of our briefings they’re like well [00:08:55.600] there’s a difference between UAPs and [00:08:56.880] space trash and so as a joke it kind of [00:08:58.560] >> well at least they’re not calling you [00:08:59.760] the tin for [00:09:00.959] >> well they can’t because so many people [00:09:02.640] believe in it now and even it’s even [00:09:04.000] more funny because you have like the [00:09:05.279] more legacy I think older congressmen [00:09:07.680] that are just like you know hey Luna [00:09:09.839] what you got my brother-in-law was [00:09:11.279] asking me so that you know a lot of [00:09:12.480] people are curious [00:09:13.200] >> I was going to say this is the big thing [00:09:14.560] there’s such a stigma associated with [00:09:16.880] disorderational stigma. [00:09:18.720] >> It’s interesting though because young [00:09:20.000] people don’t have that hang up. [00:09:21.519] >> Correct. So I think Project Blue Book [00:09:23.200] was probably not as effective. [00:09:24.880] >> No, absolutely. But what’s been [00:09:26.959] interesting is you’re getting a definite [00:09:29.600] feeling from the White House, from the [00:09:31.440] administration. They are engaging on [00:09:33.200] this topic. Seriously, that’s what I [00:09:34.880] most want to hear. [00:09:35.680] >> Yeah, I’ve talked directly to the [00:09:36.800] president and I’ve talked to Steven [00:09:38.240] Miller. We all have. [00:09:39.360] >> And what’s he telling you? [00:09:40.880] >> Well, they’re gonna they’re playing [00:09:42.080] ball. I mean, we could not have gotten [00:09:43.760] this done had they not given the okay to [00:09:46.160] release this information. [00:09:47.120] >> And so when you when you say that like [00:09:49.200] do you the big bear in the room [00:09:50.880] obviously ma’am is are they going to [00:09:53.200] address the issue of alleged crash [00:09:55.920] retrievals? [00:09:56.560] >> Well that’s why we have to do the [00:09:58.000] amnesty and bring those people in. if [00:09:59.839] they if someone can point to a location [00:10:02.560] program then they will look and and I’m [00:10:05.440] hearing 100% and you know on the back [00:10:07.920] end they have tried to find the [00:10:10.000] follow-up on leads but haven’t found [00:10:11.360] anything yet [00:10:12.480] >> and so let’s talk more broadly this is a [00:10:14.480] bipartisan initiative [00:10:15.760] >> and biccameal yeah [00:10:16.800] >> it’s fascinating [00:10:18.240] >> I do notice though the dems are a little [00:10:20.240] shy than the Republicans why do you [00:10:22.560] think that is [00:10:23.120] >> well initially the DC was saying that [00:10:25.200] this was like a kooky topic and then [00:10:26.880] after all the files came out they [00:10:28.160] stopped and so I think They, you know, [00:10:29.760] it’s elections. They don’t want to be [00:10:31.360] called crazy, but this is not a crazy [00:10:32.720] topic. I think it just answers a [00:10:34.240] fundamental question of do you think or [00:10:35.680] do you not think we’re alone in the [00:10:36.640] universe? [00:10:37.120] >> And very quickly, you’re having these MK [00:10:39.040] Ultra hearings next week. [00:10:40.480] >> I am. We’re if we’re if we’re open, we [00:10:42.480] might not. [00:10:43.120] >> So, is there something in the Have you [00:10:44.560] got something in the box you’re not [00:10:45.680] telling us? [00:10:46.399] >> No. You know, I did go over to the CIA [00:10:48.079] to follow up on some of the MK Ultra [00:10:50.160] files that were allegedly found with JFK [00:10:51.760] files. And there’s that back and forth [00:10:53.200] with OD and I and CIA. And they did find [00:10:55.920] well they did find new MK Ultra files [00:10:58.320] that they’re in the process of [00:10:59.440] declassifying but from the files and in [00:11:01.920] meeting with the historians that were [00:11:03.200] there going over the files at Langley [00:11:05.200] directly these were files specifically [00:11:08.160] pertaining to a program I won’t name the [00:11:10.480] program yet because they have been [00:11:11.680] declassified um but the Multilra was a [00:11:15.440] pot of money and then they could focus [00:11:17.360] on other projects if you will under that [00:11:20.560] title and so it was kind of a slush fund [00:11:22.320] for some other things and that’ll come [00:11:23.440] out. Are you revisiting the JFK story at [00:11:26.000] all? [00:11:26.320] >> So, we have been conducting [00:11:27.519] investigations. We’ll have a report out [00:11:29.279] this November. [00:11:32.480] >> Sir, thank you very much for giving us [00:11:33.920] your time today, World of News Nation. I [00:11:35.839] work for a show called Reality Check. [00:11:37.360] I’m the host. [00:11:38.399] >> Um, [00:11:39.200] >> you of course were the chair of the uh [00:11:41.760] of the uh original hearing, the UAP [00:11:44.800] issue, I think what, two years ago now. [00:11:46.800] >> Uh, more than that, but yes. [00:11:48.800] >> So, tell me, how have things changed? Is [00:11:50.560] there a mood change in the Congress? I I [00:11:52.640] I think so. I mean, in the beginning, I [00:11:54.480] was ridiculed and mocked. Um, thanks to [00:11:56.959] Adam Schiff, who was my chairman at the [00:11:59.200] time of the full committee, I approached [00:12:01.120] Adam and he was very gracious in uh [00:12:04.320] letting me have an open hearing and he [00:12:06.160] attended and he even told me later that [00:12:08.160] there were many folks on the Senate side [00:12:10.240] who regretted not having taken the first [00:12:12.160] step. But it was a bold step uh one in [00:12:14.800] which I faced a great deal of criticism [00:12:16.480] initially and now look at where we are. [00:12:18.560] Some people are calling me the godfather [00:12:20.079] of the modern UAP hearings. or whatever. [00:12:22.240] >> Well, go sir cuz I mean I can tell you [00:12:23.680] there’s a huge constituency of people. [00:12:25.920] Many of them vote and they are very [00:12:28.240] passionate about this issue. [00:12:29.519] >> Very much so. And you know I I have to [00:12:31.279] say because of the work of my colleagues [00:12:32.959] this has been a very bipartisan effort. [00:12:35.040] So much so that President Trump and the [00:12:36.800] administration released scores of files [00:12:39.279] and video footage that we’ve seen. I’m [00:12:41.680] really struck by the fact that this is a [00:12:43.440] bipartisan and by [00:12:46.800] >> you’ve got Republicans sitting with Dems [00:12:49.120] and you all seem to be getting on. You [00:12:50.480] actually agree on something. [00:12:51.519] >> I know, right? Isn’t that something? You [00:12:53.120] know, so I think it’s critically [00:12:54.560] important that we have these hearings [00:12:55.839] that we salute the filmmakers, the UFO [00:12:58.320] community, the UAP community, but in a [00:13:00.560] very real sense, we still have to be [00:13:02.079] mindful that our adversaries are always [00:13:03.920] watching and listening for context clues [00:13:06.240] to see what we’re developing. This is [00:13:07.760] your your area of expertise. You’re very [00:13:09.839] much the counter intelligence guy. I [00:13:11.519] think at one stage you were the chair of [00:13:12.959] the counter intelligence committee. [00:13:14.399] >> Yes, sir. [00:13:15.279] >> How big a threat is the risk? And I see [00:13:19.360] this as a huge risk. [00:13:20.560] >> Sure. [00:13:20.959] >> The risk that the Chinese are going to [00:13:23.600] steal the march on any potential [00:13:25.760] technological developments that can [00:13:27.440] come. [00:13:28.000] >> It might be happening already and I [00:13:29.600] think that’s that’s the greater threat. [00:13:30.959] I mean uh we’ve just seen Chinese uh [00:13:33.200] China release uh composits of their [00:13:35.120] supercomputer. Uh so they are trying to [00:13:38.399] outpace us in terms of technological [00:13:40.320] advancements and this is no exception. [00:13:43.040] One of the big allegations is that [00:13:45.760] there’s a hold back that there are [00:13:47.760] gatekeepers in the government, [00:13:49.200] gatekeepers in the intelligence [00:13:50.560] community who are holding back. It [00:13:52.399] strikes me that the most plausible [00:13:54.079] explanation for why there is a reticence [00:13:56.160] to be more upfront particularly about [00:13:58.160] crash retrievals if they should [00:14:00.320] particularly about a reverse engineering [00:14:02.160] program is the simple issue of we don’t [00:14:04.959] want to give our adversaries an [00:14:06.560] advantage. [00:14:07.199] >> Sure. Sure. It’s a very real concern. I [00:14:09.279] mean it’s a concern that they have [00:14:10.480] against us as well. What do you think of [00:14:12.720] the argument though that for the [00:14:14.320] president to stand up and I think it [00:14:16.399] would be an amazing moment in human [00:14:17.920] history if it did happen for the [00:14:19.680] president to stand up and say there is a [00:14:22.160] non-human intelligence who’s been [00:14:23.839] engaging with this planet for x number [00:14:25.839] of years. [00:14:26.959] >> Do you think it’s a slippery slope? Do [00:14:28.560] you think even admitting that would lead [00:14:30.639] to a necessity to disclose retrieved [00:14:33.360] technology? [00:14:34.480] >> There are many who feel that way. Um I [00:14:36.320] commend the president for releasing the [00:14:38.000] footage. Um, I think that there is an [00:14:40.639] argument that it could unearth a lot of [00:14:42.560] people’s religious beliefs. Um, it could [00:14:45.279] unearth a lot of people’s norms and more [00:14:48.000] ways and how we think, but I think I [00:14:49.760] think now is the time. [00:14:50.639] >> You’re a man of Muslim faith. [00:14:52.079] >> Yes, sir. [00:14:52.639] >> How does it affect your faith? [00:14:54.160] >> It doesn’t affect it at all. I I think [00:14:55.519] it confirms and reaffirms what I’ve [00:14:57.440] found in the Quran and other religious [00:14:59.680] traditions. [00:15:00.320] >> It fascinates me. You know, the Quran [00:15:02.079] actually has a lot of stuff that [00:15:03.680] indicates, I think, the very plausible [00:15:06.160] possibility that they saw and recorded [00:15:08.160] you. [00:15:08.560] >> Absolutely. You’re a very wise man. Keep [00:15:10.240] him. Give him a raise. He’s tough. [00:15:12.560] >> But no, it’s interesting. I’m fascinated [00:15:14.240] by the fact that both the Bible and the [00:15:16.160] Quran have incidents in them that do [00:15:18.399] appear to suggest anomalous phenomena [00:15:20.399] >> for absolutely. So for many fakes, their [00:15:23.120] folks their faith will be solidified and [00:15:25.360] reaffirmed. For others, it could be [00:15:27.199] unearthed. And so what’s it like for you [00:15:28.880] as a Democrat seeing this and seeing the [00:15:32.160] president and indeed a lot of the [00:15:33.680] Republican members as chairs of various [00:15:35.360] committees getting the glory? Is there a [00:15:37.199] resentment or do you think it’s a broad [00:15:39.279] broad party issue? Well, listen, uh I I [00:15:41.839] I’m someone who is pushing for the truth [00:15:44.560] to come out in this regard, but it’s [00:15:46.720] just like, uh I heard somebody in the [00:15:48.800] room just say, uh it’s just like kind of [00:15:51.199] an artist, uh a James Brown or, you [00:15:53.759] know, Little Richard or Prince, you [00:15:55.040] know, they don’t get the credit for, but [00:15:56.480] I mean, the credit belongs to the [00:15:57.759] people. So, uh they’re calling me the [00:15:59.440] godfather of the modern UAP hearings. [00:16:01.279] I’ll take it. [00:16:02.160] >> Well, sir, I can tell you sitting there [00:16:03.680] in the Watergate room where the great [00:16:05.519] Watergate hearings were were held. Do [00:16:07.759] you think one day there will be soon an [00:16:10.720] admission that there is a non-human [00:16:12.320] intelligence engaging with this planet? [00:16:14.000] >> That would be great and that’s where [00:16:14.959] you’ll get your Emmy. [00:16:16.800] >> Another Emmy, right? [00:16:18.560] >> Well, listen, I I hope that frankly to [00:16:20.800] give credit where credit’s due, I hope [00:16:22.720] that people like yourself who are [00:16:24.160] showing leadership on this issue get [00:16:25.680] acknowledgement for the work. [00:16:26.639] >> That means a lot. Thank you, sir. [00:16:27.839] >> Thank you very much. [00:16:30.320] >> What I was really struck by was the [00:16:32.399] degree of unanimity. You’ve got bicamel [00:16:34.880] bipartisan positions on the same issue. [00:16:38.399] This is in Congress, [00:16:40.000] >> right? [00:16:41.600] >> It it is it it is a very bipartisan [00:16:44.240] topic. It turns out what what I think is [00:16:46.639] amazing about America when we from our [00:16:49.040] very beginning, it’s a nation that was [00:16:51.440] that was designed to be to be to belong [00:16:54.240] to the people. And when the people find [00:16:57.680] out that their government thinks that it [00:16:59.600] knows better than them and wants to that [00:17:01.440] it that it should withhold information, [00:17:04.000] that really rubs Americans the wrong [00:17:05.839] way. [00:17:06.160] >> It really does. [00:17:06.880] >> Us Yanks, you would call us. [00:17:08.079] >> I know. But I love it. But I I think [00:17:09.439] it’s fantastic because it there’s [00:17:11.520] something also about the power of being [00:17:13.520] in a room like that. I mean, that’s [00:17:14.799] where the Titanic hearing was held. It’s [00:17:17.360] where the Watergate hearing was held. [00:17:19.439] Iran Contra. some of the great moments [00:17:22.000] in American history where power has been [00:17:24.160] held to account had happened in that [00:17:26.160] way. [00:17:26.720] >> Yeah, it it’s historic and it’s neat to [00:17:29.280] be in that uh honestly I pinch myself [00:17:31.840] every day that I’m a member of Congress. [00:17:33.360] I mean, it’s just like it’s it’s one of [00:17:35.280] the most amazing things in the world. [00:17:37.200] Um, but to be able to be in that room [00:17:39.440] where where the truth has been set free [00:17:42.000] so many times is it’s it’s a wonderful [00:17:44.799] moment. [00:17:45.280] >> So, so give me some hope. It’s very easy [00:17:47.919] to be skeptical and cynical about what’s [00:17:50.559] happening at the moment. I I get the [00:17:52.080] feeling I’m not sure what’s happening in [00:17:54.160] terms of disclosure. I get the feeling [00:17:55.840] at the moment that a lot of the the UFO [00:17:58.400] dumps data so far have been kind of, you [00:18:02.000] know, I’m not that excited. [00:18:04.080] >> Is there more to come? Do you think? [00:18:05.840] >> I think there is. Um I’ve seen videos [00:18:09.440] um of these particularly I think for me [00:18:12.080] definitively I know that there is [00:18:14.559] something that that um is is unique [00:18:17.679] something that is not normal and it’s [00:18:20.160] it’s particularly these plasma orbs [00:18:22.160] these some people call them plasmoids or [00:18:24.480] whatever but these intelligent moving [00:18:27.039] balls of plasma is something that we [00:18:30.640] have to get to the bottom of and so [00:18:32.960] there is something there I’ve seen [00:18:34.160] videos of them um I think there’s [00:18:36.640] probably got to be better videos out [00:18:38.240] there that we can get access to. And at [00:18:40.720] the end of the day, we’re seeing a [00:18:42.480] research team be put formed up by Avi [00:18:44.960] Lobe to research this and other topics. [00:18:47.919] So, I I think there’s more to come. [00:18:49.600] >> And it’s clear from talking to Rick [00:18:51.200] Luner, who I spoke to just outside here [00:18:53.120] before. She says President Trump’s [00:18:55.679] serious about this. Are you getting the [00:18:57.360] same vibe? [00:18:58.559] >> Oh, absolutely. I think his team is [00:19:01.440] definitely very eager and serious about [00:19:03.120] this. I mean, Steven Miller, the [00:19:05.679] president, the fact that the president [00:19:06.960] assigned Steven Miller to this, this is [00:19:08.880] the this is his right-hand guy, and so [00:19:11.440] he I think that the fact that Steven [00:19:13.919] Miller has been put in charge is is a [00:19:15.840] big deal. [00:19:16.799] >> We look forward to talking to you later [00:19:18.000] on, sir, and thank you so much. [00:19:19.520] >> Thank you, Ross. Anytime. [00:19:22.640] >> You gave me an interview a couple of [00:19:23.919] years ago, sir, and it was a fascinating [00:19:26.000] time because at the time there was all [00:19:27.520] this residual stigma associated with [00:19:29.520] UAPs. Is there a change? I think there [00:19:32.880] is I I think the fact that we’ve had a [00:19:35.200] number of very legitimate and and um uh [00:19:39.840] respected professionals who are aircraft [00:19:42.000] pilots, who are Navy pilots and so forth [00:19:44.720] that have come forth and you know for no [00:19:46.720] benefit except to simply say we want to [00:19:48.559] share our story about what we’ve seen [00:19:50.880] and for them to be able to lay out and [00:19:52.799] to be able to share some of the digital [00:19:55.360] information that they were able to [00:19:56.559] capture concerning objects that we [00:19:58.559] simply can’t explain. And I think that’s [00:20:01.280] important to the American people to know [00:20:02.720] that these are professionals and uh [00:20:05.120] they’re just simply sharing, not trying [00:20:07.120] to tell people what it is. They just [00:20:08.559] simply say we don’t know what this is [00:20:10.240] and and that’s okay. The bear in the [00:20:12.480] room at the moment is how far will [00:20:14.480] President Trump go? Do you think the [00:20:16.720] president’s interested in capital D [00:20:18.799] disclosure, talking about things like [00:20:20.960] crash retrievals, reverse engineering [00:20:22.640] programs? [00:20:23.200] >> You know, I I I think what he’s trying [00:20:24.640] to say is is that he wants to see people [00:20:26.720] have confidence. uh and he doesn’t want [00:20:29.200] to have secrets just to have secrets and [00:20:30.960] he thinks the American people are [00:20:32.159] responsible enough to know when we don’t [00:20:34.480] have an answer and sometimes we don’t [00:20:36.559] have an answer as to what an object [00:20:38.080] might be or a phenomenon might be. So I [00:20:40.559] I can’t speak for the president but [00:20:42.480] clearly his the his actions so far have [00:20:45.280] indicated a willingness that we have not [00:20:47.280] seen in previous administrations. I [00:20:49.280] think that’s moving in the right [00:20:50.320] direction. You’ve been very outspoken in [00:20:52.880] saying a note of caution that we have to [00:20:56.000] be aware of our Chinese potential [00:20:57.840] adversaries, the Russians. They’re [00:20:59.600] trying to steal any technology they can [00:21:01.440] get their hands on. Let’s be blunt about [00:21:03.039] it. We have to protect national [00:21:05.679] security. Is there a possibility that [00:21:08.400] you can on the one hand disclose perhaps [00:21:11.200] if it exists the existence of a [00:21:12.880] non-human intelligence engaging with [00:21:14.960] this planet? Does that necessarily mean [00:21:17.520] that we are compromising [00:21:19.679] technology? [00:21:21.760] >> I think the critical issue is is there [00:21:24.240] are certain objects we don’t know [00:21:26.720] publicly whether they those objects [00:21:29.200] might be ours. They might belong to [00:21:31.919] China or Russia or something that we [00:21:34.480] can’t explain. I don’t know what the [00:21:36.320] other option is. But what I do know in [00:21:38.960] talking with respected professionals is [00:21:41.440] that there is something that exists [00:21:43.280] there. I don’t know what it is, but if [00:21:46.080] we’re curious about it and we’re [00:21:47.919] studying it, I can assure you our [00:21:50.240] adversaries are also studying it or they [00:21:52.880] may very well have been doing it in the [00:21:54.880] past and keeping it just as quiet as we [00:21:57.360] have. [00:21:58.000] >> Last question. Would you like to see the [00:21:59.840] president disclose? Well, I think he’s [00:22:02.080] already started that process and I [00:22:04.559] think, you know, so once again, I will [00:22:06.400] allow him and his team to make their [00:22:08.320] decisions based on what they believe is [00:22:10.080] best, just like we’re going to try to do [00:22:11.760] the best that we can to share with the [00:22:13.679] American public what we know or what [00:22:15.760] we’ve been able to learn in a fashion [00:22:17.600] that does not impact our national [00:22:21.360] security. That is the most important [00:22:23.360] part right now. [00:22:25.360] >> Thank you very much. [00:22:26.080] >> Thank you, [00:22:28.400] >> Jeff. Great to have you on Reality [00:22:30.159] Check. Lovely to see you here. Good to [00:22:31.840] see you. [00:22:32.320] >> You’ve been through some turbulent times [00:22:34.480] since you gave evidence, haven’t you? [00:22:35.919] What’s it like being a whistleblower? [00:22:38.240] >> It uh can be the most challenging thing [00:22:40.559] you’ve ever gone through. Uh the path of [00:22:42.720] the whistleblower is fraught with peril. [00:22:45.600] Um you’re putting your career in [00:22:47.120] jeopardy. You’re putting your possibly [00:22:49.120] your life in jeopardy and more [00:22:51.120] importantly your your friends and family [00:22:52.799] in jeopardy. So it’s a it’s a very [00:22:54.880] difficult but important path to follow. [00:22:57.120] >> Do you ever regret it? [00:22:58.400] >> I don’t. No, I don’t regret it at all. [00:23:01.039] >> So, just give the audience who may not [00:23:02.480] be familiar with your story a brief [00:23:04.080] rundown of what happened to you as a [00:23:05.919] military policeman. [00:23:07.120] >> So, uh I was involved in a series of UFO [00:23:09.919] incursions uh starting in 2003 at [00:23:12.960] Vandenberg Air Force Base in California. [00:23:15.360] Uh we were at the time conducting [00:23:17.440] national missile defense launches, top [00:23:19.679] priority of the executive branch at the [00:23:22.000] time. And um as we started the launches, [00:23:24.960] the UFOs would show up. [00:23:26.720] >> You say UFOs plural. [00:23:28.080] >> Plural. uh well over a dozen encounters [00:23:30.960] over uh multiple months uh and over [00:23:33.919] multiple years. So [00:23:35.039] >> was it talked about or was it told to [00:23:37.039] you that you weren’t to talk about it? [00:23:38.640] What was the official attitude? [00:23:40.000] >> No, initially uh there was no stigma [00:23:41.919] attached to it. Uh we took it very [00:23:43.679] serious. Uh every single encounter we [00:23:46.640] had was investigated [00:23:48.880] uh up channelneled to higher [00:23:50.159] headquarters. We would uh file police [00:23:52.640] reports. We take witness statements. So [00:23:54.960] there when when it was occurring there [00:23:56.720] was no stigma uh or anything until um [00:24:00.000] you know things got more serious. [00:24:01.600] >> And is there any possibility that the [00:24:03.120] vehicles that you saw were US vehicles? [00:24:06.159] >> I mean it’s possible um but the objects [00:24:09.200] me and my my co-workers saw didn’t look [00:24:11.840] like anything that you know human beings [00:24:14.480] would produce. [00:24:15.120] >> Can you describe them to me? So, the one [00:24:16.960] I saw personally uh with two other [00:24:18.799] witnesses on Vandenberg Air Force Base, [00:24:21.679] uh it was a giant opaque glowing orb of [00:24:25.279] light, uh like the size of a house. [00:24:27.360] >> Was it solid? [00:24:28.320] >> It it appeared to be solid. We could see [00:24:30.320] the curve of it. Um we watched it come [00:24:33.679] down from high altitude. It initially [00:24:36.000] appeared like a satellite. [00:24:37.279] >> Would you describe it as a craft or as [00:24:39.360] an orb? [00:24:40.240] >> My friend described it as a craft. I I [00:24:42.880] didn’t feel it was a at the time a piece [00:24:46.159] of technology. I felt like whatever we [00:24:48.320] were looking at was the thing. Um but [00:24:51.840] that’s that’s what we’re trying to get [00:24:53.120] to. We don’t know what we encountered. [00:24:55.120] >> So, have you suffered any kind of [00:24:57.520] persecution at all for speaking out [00:24:59.039] yourself? [00:24:59.679] >> I have. Yes. [00:25:00.480] >> What happened? [00:25:01.360] >> Uh I don’t want to go into a lot of [00:25:03.120] details, but um you know, I’ve had [00:25:05.279] threats against me and my family. Uh we [00:25:07.600] had a breakin and we had messages left [00:25:10.080] for us prior to me testifying in [00:25:11.840] Congress. Um [00:25:13.279] >> and do you think they were trying to [00:25:14.400] intimidate you to stop you from giving [00:25:16.480] evidence? [00:25:16.880] >> Yeah, they did not want me and Dylan [00:25:18.559] Borland and and uh Alex Wiggins to [00:25:21.200] testify. [00:25:21.679] >> It was an historic moment. I could see [00:25:23.440] the tension that you were under that day [00:25:25.279] when you were sitting there in the [00:25:26.559] congressional hearing. What was it like? [00:25:28.480] What was going through your head? [00:25:30.000] >> It was uh almost like an out-of body [00:25:33.360] experience. It was so intense. Uh we all [00:25:36.400] took it extremely serious. Um tried to [00:25:39.279] prepare as best we could. We knew we had [00:25:40.799] to perform. Um we a lot of uh people [00:25:44.240] that are unknown or count were counting [00:25:46.080] on us, you know, to go out there and be [00:25:48.320] honest and be direct and make an impact [00:25:51.279] and uh I feel like we did that. [00:25:53.600] >> Well, I think everybody watching this [00:25:55.360] would commend you and say how much you [00:25:57.440] should be admired and put up on a [00:25:58.960] pedestal and everybody wants to give [00:26:00.720] their thanks for the work that you’ve [00:26:02.000] done. Can I ask you though, how [00:26:04.080] important is it now? We we’re at a [00:26:06.480] situation where yes, we’ve had some [00:26:10.000] disclosure. We’ve had some admissions [00:26:12.400] from the Department of War that they [00:26:14.000] have been sitting on files that have [00:26:15.600] clearly shown that there are anomalous [00:26:17.760] objects that they can’t explain. Your [00:26:20.240] incidents not there. [00:26:21.679] >> No. [00:26:22.480] >> So clearly there’s other material yet to [00:26:24.400] be released. I [00:26:25.520] >> I believe there’s a enormous amount of [00:26:28.080] information being withheld from the [00:26:29.600] public and from Congress. [00:26:31.360] Were there videos or photographs taken [00:26:33.279] of the machines or the objects that were [00:26:35.440] seen during the sightings that you [00:26:37.279] experienced with your [00:26:38.080] >> not by uh me or my co-workers? We were [00:26:40.640] on duty armed uh you know actively [00:26:43.279] responding to these events. Uh and at [00:26:45.520] the time frame, you know, 2003 that the [00:26:47.760] camera phones weren’t what they are now, [00:26:49.840] but uh Vandenberg Air Force Base is [00:26:51.600] covered in cameras. All of our [00:26:53.440] restricted areas have cameras. So I’m [00:26:55.600] sure some data and video was captured by [00:26:58.559] the Air Force. So, if there’s no [00:27:01.200] official sanction to stop you from [00:27:04.000] talking about this, why did somebody try [00:27:06.640] and intimidate you to stop you from [00:27:08.080] speaking about it? [00:27:09.039] >> That’s the good question, right? Uh [00:27:10.640] there there is obviously an active [00:27:13.360] campaign to suppress this information to [00:27:16.240] stop people like me coming forward and [00:27:18.400] testifying. That’s what we’re trying to [00:27:20.080] find out. Why? What my thing is reality [00:27:23.360] is classified. Like the fundamental [00:27:25.760] nature of reality is classified. the [00:27:28.080] government is aware of some of this [00:27:29.600] reality and they’re trying to keep it [00:27:31.520] from the public and that’s the question [00:27:33.760] why. [00:27:35.120] >> So there are whistleblowers I suspect [00:27:37.279] you and I know a lot of them who are [00:27:39.039] sitting there in the wings waiting for [00:27:41.679] the government to make a decision about [00:27:44.159] whether it will give some kind of [00:27:46.400] qualified amnesty. How important is that [00:27:49.440] kind of legal protection for [00:27:50.799] whistleblowers? It it’s absolutely [00:27:52.720] critical because what happens with the [00:27:54.720] whistleblower is you come forward, you [00:27:56.880] you follow all the procedures and the [00:27:59.039] laws, the rules, you go to Congress and [00:28:01.440] you disclose the information and then [00:28:03.520] your life falls apart. Uh you know, you [00:28:05.919] might lose your clearance, you might [00:28:07.120] lose your job, you might be retaliated [00:28:09.120] against at work, and basically they’ll [00:28:11.120] just make you miserable. Um and and [00:28:13.760] that’s just the the way they’re playing [00:28:16.080] the game. [00:28:18.880] It implies there’s somebody pulling the [00:28:21.520] strings. I I have a saying in my line of [00:28:23.840] work which is we use a more impolite [00:28:25.840] term outside in private company but [00:28:27.840] always assume a screw- up before a [00:28:29.520] conspiracy. [00:28:30.559] >> Could it just be that there are [00:28:32.159] incompetent people who don’t want to [00:28:34.240] admit that there are nuclear sites like [00:28:36.000] the ones that you were patrolling being [00:28:37.679] breached by clearly some kind of [00:28:40.080] intelligently controlled object. [00:28:41.919] >> I think that’s definitely part of it. Uh [00:28:43.679] even during uh the events that happened [00:28:45.440] in Vandenberg, there were people that [00:28:47.039] were there on the ground. They didn’t [00:28:48.880] see the object, but you know, they heard [00:28:50.480] this playing out over the radio. They [00:28:51.840] knew it was real, and they just would [00:28:53.679] not engage with it. They they didn’t [00:28:55.279] want to believe it. They didn’t want to [00:28:56.559] discuss it. Um and people like that [00:28:58.960] won’t report or they won’t upch the [00:29:01.200] information. They won’t conduct an [00:29:02.640] investigation. [00:29:03.440] >> Did you discuss it with your colleagues? [00:29:05.039] Yeah, everyone uh that I knew was aware [00:29:07.600] of it. [00:29:08.240] >> And when you made the decision, as you [00:29:10.240] did quite courageously to come forward [00:29:12.000] and speak publicly, did you speak to any [00:29:14.320] of your former colleagues about that [00:29:15.760] decision? Are there any people inside [00:29:17.919] still who are aware that you’d made that [00:29:20.399] decision to come forward? [00:29:21.760] >> Yeah, I actually um hadn’t talked to any [00:29:24.559] of the people I’m very close with that [00:29:26.640] that had those encounters with me prior [00:29:28.799] to the hearing. I wasn’t expecting [00:29:30.960] Representative Luna to bring up my case [00:29:33.840] in the first hearing with David Brush [00:29:35.440] and Ryan Grave. She mentioned it and [00:29:37.760] then I had to call all my friends and [00:29:39.679] said, you know, hey man, I got us in in [00:29:41.760] some trouble here. So, uh, but it was [00:29:44.000] good. We all got to catch up and now [00:29:45.600] we’re, you know, we’re we’re good [00:29:47.440] friends again and there’s a lot of [00:29:49.279] people like them and like me waiting to [00:29:51.600] come forward. We just need to make it [00:29:53.520] safe for them to do so. [00:29:54.880] >> And to do that, what do we need? [00:29:56.799] >> We need a lot. So first we need um to [00:30:00.320] create an atmosphere and environment [00:30:02.000] where you know the stigma is reduced. [00:30:04.240] We’re doing that uh you know here we are [00:30:06.399] now. Um so the stigma is a problem and [00:30:09.840] we really need congressional and federal [00:30:12.640] support for these people in case they [00:30:14.880] they come forward and they’re [00:30:16.159] retaliated. We need some kind of amnesty [00:30:19.200] for the witnesses to come forward. Some [00:30:21.840] legal protection and then they need a [00:30:23.760] lot of support on the back end. um you [00:30:26.159] know they they might need things like [00:30:27.600] counseling trying to integrate these [00:30:29.760] experiences can be very difficult. [00:30:31.919] >> Has it been confronting for you? [00:30:33.679] >> It was easier for me I I believe because [00:30:36.640] uh the way it played out I was on duty [00:30:39.679] with you know 60 other people as it was [00:30:42.240] occurring when I had my personal [00:30:44.159] encounter. Two of my best friends were [00:30:45.679] with me. Um I reported it immediately to [00:30:48.960] you know my commander and the command [00:30:50.399] post and I didn’t have any retaliation [00:30:52.559] or backlash. So my my path has been uh [00:30:57.039] very easy because I had friends around [00:30:58.960] me that believed me, trusted me and [00:31:00.799] witnessed it. But other people have [00:31:02.960] these experiences alone and you know [00:31:05.760] then they face stigma and ridicule. [00:31:08.640] >> Well, I’m sure I speak for everybody [00:31:10.880] watching this right now when they want [00:31:12.880] to say thank you. So thank you. [00:31:14.399] Appreciate. Thank you so much.