Ross Coulthart Reality Check Q&A — Whistleblowers, “Manhattan Project 2.0” & China Lake (7 Jun 2026)
Source: Reality Check with Ross Coulthart — Q&A episode, NewsNation. Host Ross Coulthart; questions read by Meagan Medick. URL: https://youtu.be/hevtgoIVURI (NewsNation; 2026-06-07; ~37:50). Captured: 2026-06-08. Full verbatim auto-transcript (timestamps retained; ASR artifacts preserved — “Coloulart/Coldart”=Coulthart, “Megan Medic”=Meagan Medick, “Berles”=Burlison, “Luna/Anna Paulina Luna”, “Moscowitz”=Moskowitz, “Leslie Kaine”=Leslie Kean, “Crush/Grush”=Grusch, “Natt Kobitz”=a US Navy R&D figure [name uncertain], “Shelonburgger”=Shellenberger, “Gardner Deso”=Gardner Dozois, “WOOAPs”=waived unacknowledged SAPs). Provenance only; analysis lives on coulthart-career-and-claims and the relevant topics. What this is: weekly viewer-Q&A. Topics: (1) Elizondo’s “love your families” portent — Coulthart reads it not as imminent catastrophe but as “ontological shock”/human-irrelevance, via the 1973 Gardner Dozois novella Chains of the Sea; (2) the 9 June Disclosure Foundation event on the Capitol steps (Grusch + UAP caucus — Burlison, Luna, Moskowitz, hopefully Gillibrand/Schumer; run by Leslie Kean & James Fox) to push the blocked whistleblower-protection laws; (3) the aliens.gov White House website — Coulthart calls it “catastrophically stupid” trivialization tied to immigration, warns of Epstein/JFK-files-style backlash, frets the new DNI lacks intelligence experience (misses Gabbard); (4) Stephen Miller engaging Burlison’s 60-day amnesty — “the biggest positive,” with a South-Africa Truth-&-Reconciliation analogy and discomfort over amnesty for alleged murder/intimidation; says the White House is “wrestling with” whether to disclose against heavy CIA pushback; (5) Eric Weinstein’s “Manhattan Project 2.0” — Coulthart reframes it as Weinstein’s critique that the legacy program lacks the Manhattan Project’s elite physicists, and pushes back: he does not buy that the program stalled — “the legacy program has made quite a number of breakthroughs particularly on propulsion and energy systems” — while conceding excessive compartmentalization and a material-science gap (best work done by un-sharing European/German scientists); flags Renaissance Technologies; (6) China Lake — fresh claims: it is “being swarmed” by UAP now, hindering weapons testing (multiple security/scientist/military sources), and the US has used “psionics… the dog whistle and high-pulse microwaves to down alien craft” — “they have brought down craft in China Lake”; (7) the legal Q — NDAs/Espionage Act bind even an illegal program; PPD-19; Grusch’s path; contractors’ weak protections as the key gap; a possible Eisenhower/Truman-era PEAD burying the program.
[00:00:06.720] Hello, good day and welcome to Reality [00:00:09.440] Check Q&A. I’m your host Ross Coloulart. [00:00:12.240] This is the time of the week where you [00:00:13.920] get to ask me the questions. And here to [00:00:16.960] ask me those questions, my colleague and [00:00:18.880] good friend, Megan Medic. Good day, [00:00:20.640] Megan. How are you? [00:00:22.160] >> I’m great, Ross. What’s new with you? [00:00:24.720] >> Uh, it’s cold down under. looking [00:00:26.640] forward to getting to DC for the [00:00:28.400] disclosure foundation event and of [00:00:30.800] course hopefully presidential [00:00:32.239] disclosure. [00:00:33.520] >> Yes, of course. We will get into the [00:00:35.520] questions. We have UAP Juan writing us [00:00:38.079] on X. Hi Megan. Can Ross comment on this [00:00:40.719] video clip from a recent Lou Alzando [00:00:43.200] interview. What is Ross Ross’ take on [00:00:45.600] this? He says, [00:00:47.360] >> “I think we should love our families. I [00:00:49.440] think we need to spend more time with [00:00:50.800] our children. Love one another. Um, this [00:00:54.800] is going to happen whether we like it or [00:00:56.480] not. And I believe that things happen in [00:00:59.199] to the benefit of mankind. Maybe we need [00:01:01.520] to focus on each other and be a little [00:01:03.280] try to be more kind to one another. Try [00:01:05.040] to be more patience. Try to give grace. [00:01:07.200] Take time to tell your children you love [00:01:08.960] them. Take time to tell your spouse you [00:01:10.880] respect them and you love them. Um, [00:01:13.040] that’s my word of advice. [00:01:16.000] >> Well, love our families is always a good [00:01:18.400] guide. But yes, I guess you can take [00:01:20.479] from that the implication that there’s [00:01:22.320] something portentious or catastrophic [00:01:24.880] down the track. I honestly don’t know. I [00:01:27.920] hear this speculation all the time. [00:01:29.840] Lou’s dropped a couple of clangers about [00:01:31.840] it over the years. And he never goes [00:01:34.159] into specifics. And I find it as [00:01:35.920] frustrating as everyone else does. He’s [00:01:37.840] not the only one doing it, by the way. [00:01:39.360] There are many narratives running [00:01:42.560] through UAPology suggesting that there’s [00:01:45.600] some kind of imminent catastrophe, [00:01:48.720] imminent event which poses a threat to [00:01:51.759] human safety. I really don’t know what [00:01:54.079] it is. I mean, at its least, LE [00:01:56.560] basically suggesting that disclosure [00:01:58.399] might be an onlogically shocking event, [00:02:00.880] that it might be something that um puts [00:02:03.840] human beings on the back foot, [00:02:05.439] especially in terms of establishment [00:02:07.040] religion and things like that. Whenever [00:02:09.520] people ask me this question, I always [00:02:11.599] come back to the one narrative that Lou [00:02:15.440] Alzando constantly refers people to, [00:02:18.319] which is the Chains of the Seas book. [00:02:22.080] It’s a 1973 science fiction novella [00:02:25.360] called Chains of the Seas by a guy [00:02:27.360] called Gardner Deso [00:02:30.319] and it’s one of the best fictional [00:02:34.560] depictions of the UAP NHI phenomenon and [00:02:39.200] it’s weird and it’s weird in a way that [00:02:41.680] I find interesting. LSE often said, “If [00:02:44.000] I can share one anecdotal story of the [00:02:46.000] phenomena, I direct people’s attention [00:02:48.000] to a collection of short stories to a [00:02:50.160] novela called Chains of the Sea.” The [00:02:53.120] way the short story describes the [00:02:54.720] phenomena is very similar to people in [00:02:56.800] real life that have described the [00:02:58.640] phenomena, personal experiences. While [00:03:01.200] I’m not endorsing this story as being [00:03:03.280] truthful or accurate, I think it [00:03:05.360] provides a fundamentally different [00:03:07.440] perspective and it forces us to think [00:03:09.760] about this phenomena in a different way. [00:03:11.680] So, on your behalf, dear viewers, I went [00:03:14.159] away recently and reread The Chains of [00:03:16.959] the Sea. And what do I take from it? [00:03:19.440] Well, it’s got a young boy in it called [00:03:21.040] Tommy who can perceive other people, [00:03:23.920] invisible or interdimensional entities. [00:03:27.680] Uh, they coexist with humanity on Earth. [00:03:31.519] They’re all around us. Meanwhile, [00:03:33.680] mysterious alien spacecraft land in [00:03:36.319] various locations across the states and [00:03:38.640] and the world. Governments panic. They [00:03:41.120] attempt coverups as governments do and [00:03:43.840] they fail. Military responses prove [00:03:46.480] ineffective. Humanity’s AI systems, now [00:03:50.400] this is interesting, secretly [00:03:52.480] communicate with the visitors, bypassing [00:03:54.640] humans. The aliens aren’t really all [00:03:57.200] that interested in us humans. And they [00:03:59.280] reveal that Earth is already ruled by [00:04:01.599] ancient nonhuman intelligences that have [00:04:04.319] long been present, but hidden from [00:04:06.319] normal normal human perception. And so [00:04:09.519] what the story is all about is it’s [00:04:11.200] exploring essentially uh irrelevance. [00:04:14.799] And this is something I try and talk [00:04:16.160] about a lot whenever I get the [00:04:17.519] opportunity. One of the things people [00:04:19.519] often ask me is are the aliens friendly [00:04:21.680] or are they um malevolent? And the best [00:04:25.680] answer I can give that I express as a [00:04:28.479] third alternative is are they [00:04:30.639] indifferent [00:04:32.160] in the same way that we are to ants. So [00:04:35.360] the story is essentially the chains of [00:04:37.360] the sea is all about humanity’s [00:04:39.120] irrelevance or marginal status on its [00:04:41.919] own planet and the fact that this is the [00:04:44.800] subject of institutional denial. The [00:04:47.280] poor protagonist Tommy is eventually [00:04:50.000] medicated and dismissed as a complete [00:04:52.240] raving loony. [gasps] So that’s the [00:04:54.720] ontological shift that I surmise and [00:04:57.360] suspect Lou Elzando is talking about. I [00:05:00.560] actually doubt that he’s talking about a [00:05:02.639] imminent catastrophe or some kind of [00:05:04.960] ecological disaster. I’m hope I’m not [00:05:07.680] being proved wrong in the the long run. [00:05:10.400] But I suspect it has more to do with the [00:05:12.880] fact that the revelation of a non-human [00:05:15.520] intelligence is essentially a relevant [00:05:17.520] relevation revelation of just how [00:05:19.120] irrelevant we are as humans. That [00:05:22.639] essentially whatever it is, it’s largely [00:05:26.320] indifferent to us. and that this [00:05:28.960] humanoscentric view of the universe that [00:05:31.280] we have is not sustainable. [00:05:33.600] >> All right, we will go to Phantom J. Can [00:05:35.919] Ross share any further information in [00:05:37.919] regards to the event that David Crush [00:05:39.919] will be taking part in on June 9th? [00:05:43.199] >> Okay. Well, I’ve I’ve spoken to David [00:05:45.039] and he’s being koi. uh he is telling me [00:05:47.919] that he is going to expand on what uh he [00:05:53.039] said previously and I I I hope that that [00:05:56.720] means an expansion on the revelations of [00:05:59.840] what he has to reveal about what he [00:06:02.240] discovered firsthand about the legacy [00:06:05.840] crash retrieval reverse engineering [00:06:07.919] program for UAP nonhuman tech. This is [00:06:12.400] being buil as a definitive event. It’s [00:06:15.600] being held on the steps of the capital [00:06:17.520] on Tuesday, I think the 9th of June next [00:06:20.240] week. And essentially the whole idea is [00:06:22.960] to focus public attention on the need [00:06:26.080] for the disclosure laws, the disclosure [00:06:29.120] whistleblower protection laws that have [00:06:31.440] been blocked to this uh extent to in the [00:06:35.199] House in the Congress. And uh it’s being [00:06:38.240] run by my good friends Leslie Kaine and [00:06:40.319] James Fox. And Dave’s obviously one of [00:06:43.199] the keynote speakers, but there’s going [00:06:44.880] to be a whole host of members of the UAP [00:06:47.360] caucus. Rep. Eric Berles, Anna Paulina [00:06:50.880] Luna, Jared Moscowitz, hopefully Senator [00:06:54.319] Kirsten Gillibrand. [gasps] Um hopefully [00:06:57.840] and apparently also um uh [00:07:02.639] the former House Majority Leader um [00:07:05.840] Chuck Schumer. So basically, it’s it’s [00:07:08.080] meant to be presented as a bipartisan [00:07:09.840] effort to remind the president about his [00:07:12.800] pledge for transparency and to [00:07:15.599] essentially definitively put it on the [00:07:17.680] record that um there is something here [00:07:19.680] to be exposed. I I guess I see this as [00:07:24.240] an effort to head on what head off [00:07:27.280] rather what it at the moment is rather I [00:07:30.560] I guess discomforting and concerning [00:07:33.039] signals that are coming from the White [00:07:34.720] House. their attempt last week to [00:07:38.319] trivialize the whole UAP subject by uh [00:07:42.080] as we’d anticipated here on this show, [00:07:44.800] using the aliens.gov [00:07:47.440] website as a way of teasing public [00:07:50.160] interest in their uh stance against [00:07:53.280] alleged illegal immigration uh and [00:07:56.560] mocking the whole subject of aliens [00:07:59.440] among us. Uh, I really think that that [00:08:02.160] was an absolutely catastrophically [00:08:05.680] stupid effort by the White House. I I [00:08:08.240] don’t know what they think they were [00:08:09.599] trying to achieve. It’s just made a [00:08:11.120] whole lot of people very very angry. Uh, [00:08:14.080] as you would know, if you were watching [00:08:16.000] this show, we’d anticipated that this [00:08:17.919] was the case. I think a few months ago, [00:08:19.520] I’d indicated that aliens.gov gov um was [00:08:23.199] also a term that was uh used or aliens [00:08:26.160] was a term that’s used in relation to uh [00:08:28.960] people who are here in the United States [00:08:31.360] illegally. And so we did anticipate that [00:08:34.880] it was probably or likely related to [00:08:37.279] immigration. I just couldn’t believe [00:08:39.680] though the way that they ran it, the [00:08:41.680] spin that they put on it. I think [00:08:43.839] there’s a serious risk that if the [00:08:45.839] government, if the White House [00:08:47.360] administration does what it’s done with [00:08:49.360] the Epstein tapes, with the Epstein [00:08:52.000] videos, with the documents, and also the [00:08:54.480] JFK files, I really think there’s going [00:08:57.120] to be a huge public resentment. It’s [00:08:59.279] going to blow up in their face. Now, Tim [00:09:01.760] Burchett, the representative, who’s [00:09:04.080] saying that he’s been in touch with [00:09:05.600] Trump directly. Tim’s saying that the [00:09:08.399] president is committed to transparency. [00:09:11.600] his new DNI, uh, who I have to say is [00:09:15.920] not someone with any experience in the [00:09:17.760] intelligent world, intelligence world. I [00:09:20.560] I fear that they may be easily misled or [00:09:24.240] diverted by the intelligence community. [00:09:26.720] Uh, the office of the director of [00:09:29.040] national intelligence at this time is a [00:09:31.680] really, really crucial one. uh we need [00:09:34.399] somebody like a Tulsi Gabbard who’s been [00:09:36.720] strong enough to stand up against the [00:09:38.640] intelligence establishment and make it [00:09:40.720] clear that when the president expresses [00:09:43.040] a desire for transparency that’s what [00:09:44.959] we’re going to get. So I I think frankly [00:09:48.640] the uh the entrails are looking pretty [00:09:50.640] grim right now and I think what uh next [00:09:53.120] week’s uh June the 9th event is all [00:09:55.600] about is trying to head that off and [00:09:58.080] make it very very clear that there is a [00:10:00.560] public mood for transparency. So if [00:10:03.920] you’re around in Washington DC on [00:10:06.320] Tuesday next week during the night [00:10:08.080] please go. I think everybody’s invited. [00:10:10.640] The general public can attend. Uh, I [00:10:13.279] think if you’re media, you have to [00:10:14.560] register, which is fair enough. But [00:10:16.320] basically, it’s really important that [00:10:18.240] people get along and demonstrate just [00:10:20.240] how much they care about this issue and [00:10:22.640] how much this is not something that the [00:10:24.560] White House should be trivializing or [00:10:26.320] misrepresenting uh as something that can [00:10:29.120] be mocked and ridiculed. Um, I sincerely [00:10:32.800] hope that it represents a turning point [00:10:34.800] and uh I’m told David Grush has got some [00:10:37.839] interesting stuff to say. And our [00:10:40.079] NewsNation reporter Joe Cle will be [00:10:41.839] there and our reality check research [00:10:43.440] producer Rob Jones will also be there as [00:10:45.760] well. So we will bring you the latest on [00:10:47.279] that. [00:10:49.920] Yep. All right. We’ve got Eli on X Ross’ [00:10:52.720] thoughts on this from UAP. James new [00:10:56.079] White House deputy chief of staff Steven [00:10:58.240] Miller discussed amnesty for UAP [00:11:00.160] whistleblowers with Rep. Berles. Berles [00:11:02.640] proposed a 60-day window for those with [00:11:04.480] information to come forward. [00:11:06.079] >> Okay. What I thought was most [00:11:07.680] significant about this was that Steven [00:11:09.680] Miller, the deputy chief of staff for [00:11:11.600] the White House and somebody who’s very [00:11:13.360] very close to Trump, Berles saying he [00:11:16.959] reached out Miller reached out to him [00:11:20.160] and that’s interesting. So basically [00:11:22.560] obviously Berles’s floated this idea of [00:11:24.640] an amnesty previously and and Miller was [00:11:27.760] thinking about it. Now, the fact that [00:11:30.000] the White House Deputy Chief of Staff is [00:11:32.399] thinking about this, actually mentally [00:11:34.399] engaged with this subject matter, I [00:11:36.640] think is incredibly significant. That to [00:11:39.360] me was the biggest positive that I took [00:11:41.279] away. So, what Representative Berles’s [00:11:43.839] proposing is this 60-day window for [00:11:46.720] insiders with knowledge of or [00:11:48.959] involvement in UAP crash retrievals, [00:11:52.480] reverse engineering, or related programs [00:11:55.200] and that they can feel comfortable about [00:11:57.120] coming forward safely and providing [00:11:59.360] information. This was framed as a [00:12:02.720] potential mechanism to encourage Dul [00:12:04.720] disclosures while offering protections [00:12:07.040] aligning with broader efforts to [00:12:09.600] encourage and advocate for UAP [00:12:11.920] transparency under the current [00:12:13.440] administration. [gasps] [00:12:15.519] Um it is actually funnily enough [00:12:17.839] something that’s been discussed uh as a [00:12:19.600] possibility in past legislative changes [00:12:21.920] or amendments that were proposed to be [00:12:23.680] put before the National Defense [00:12:25.040] Authorization Act. And there are [00:12:27.680] different points of view. There are some [00:12:29.600] who want the gatekeepers and the people [00:12:32.079] responsible for the alleged crimes that [00:12:34.000] have been going on inside this allegedly [00:12:37.360] illegal legacy program for 80 years. [00:12:39.920] They want them prosecuted, criminally [00:12:41.680] prosecuted. And I don’t know how [00:12:43.600] comfortable I am about the idea of [00:12:45.920] someone who’s allegedly been involved in [00:12:48.320] murder, attempted murder, or really [00:12:51.680] disgraceful threats and intimidation [00:12:54.000] against witnesses. I really don’t know [00:12:56.639] how comfortable I feel or the people [00:12:58.880] that I’m talking to inside the program [00:13:01.040] would feel about those people [00:13:03.040] responsible for those crimes being [00:13:05.360] completely exonerated. [00:13:07.600] I guess I’ve spoken before about a truth [00:13:09.680] and reconciliation commission that I [00:13:11.519] witnessed in South Africa when I was [00:13:13.440] younger as a journalist and it worked. [00:13:16.000] It worked really well where you had [00:13:18.240] people who’d literally murdered black [00:13:20.160] activists, political activists. I [00:13:22.240] remember the Steve Beo killer was [00:13:24.399] sitting in the court and he confessed [00:13:26.959] all it was quite a moving moment and it [00:13:30.480] actually did a lot I think to heal [00:13:32.639] wounds that everybody predicted would [00:13:34.320] lead to almost inevitable civil war in [00:13:37.200] South Africa. In the case of the legacy [00:13:40.160] program we don’t know yet the extent of [00:13:44.079] the crimes. Uh we do know that there are [00:13:46.800] allegations on the record from people [00:13:48.880] like David Grush and others that there [00:13:52.079] are people who have allegedly or whom [00:13:54.480] it’s suspected have been murdered in [00:13:56.560] order to protect these secrets. I don’t [00:13:59.360] know how comfortable anybody in Congress [00:14:01.440] would feel about exonerating somebody [00:14:03.360] from murder. Uh especially if the whole [00:14:06.000] purpose of that effort has been to [00:14:08.160] frustrate Congress’s efforts to find out [00:14:11.040] about this legacy program. Uh that’s a [00:14:14.240] difficult one. Uh certainly it’s [00:14:16.000] important and it’s significant that [00:14:17.680] Steven Miller is even considering it. [00:14:19.279] That’s the positive I take away from [00:14:20.800] that. [gasps] And frankly, I guess we [00:14:22.959] have to bite the bullet and accept that [00:14:24.639] if we want disclosure, if we want this [00:14:26.880] to come out, maybe an amnesty does have [00:14:29.040] to be offered. I don’t know whether a [00:14:30.959] 60-day amnesty is long enough, frankly, [00:14:33.680] because it might take 60 days, 2 months [00:14:36.079] for somebody to get legal advice. Uh [00:14:39.760] mind you, it might provide an impetus. [00:14:41.519] It’s a tricky one, but in principle, the [00:14:44.000] fact that Steven Miller, the deputy [00:14:45.519] chief of staff for the White House, is [00:14:47.040] actually even looking at this issue, [00:14:49.279] that confirms and suggests a lot about [00:14:51.600] what I’m being told privately by people [00:14:53.760] that the White House is wrestling with a [00:14:56.639] decision about whether or not to [00:14:58.320] disclose. Um, I don’t think that [00:15:01.519] decision’s been made yet. I think [00:15:03.600] they’re trying to make a political [00:15:05.519] judgment about what’s good for them. It [00:15:08.079] certainly accords with Trump’s President [00:15:10.639] Trump’s position on the deep state. The [00:15:12.720] fact that there is an illegal cabal of [00:15:15.199] people who are essentially operating [00:15:17.680] outside of the scrutiny of the Congress [00:15:20.079] in breach of the Constitution, [00:15:22.959] but frankly that’s always happened. [00:15:25.680] We’ve long had executive efforts to [00:15:28.000] subvert the will of Congress. Um, yeah, [00:15:32.800] it’s it’s a tough one, but either way, [00:15:35.120] it’s a positive that Steven Miller is [00:15:37.120] engaging on this. What I am being told [00:15:39.519] is that the White House is confronting [00:15:41.519] an enormous amount of push back, [00:15:43.760] particularly from the CIA and other [00:15:45.839] sections of the intelligence community. [00:15:48.079] They don’t want you, the public, to know [00:15:50.800] about the legacy program. They think [00:15:53.279] that discussing even the existence of [00:15:55.519] NHI would in some way compromise the [00:15:58.160] program. I don’t agree and neither do [00:16:00.639] most of my sources. They think that this [00:16:02.800] is just a convenient excuse that’s being [00:16:04.880] used by the people who are trying to [00:16:07.279] conceal. [00:16:09.360] All right, here is an email coming in [00:16:11.040] from Frank. Hi, Ross. What are your [00:16:13.040] thoughts on Eric Weinstein’s hypothesis [00:16:15.040] that the legacy program is essentially a [00:16:16.959] Manhattan Project 2.0? UAP Gerb also [00:16:19.839] seems to corroborate this following the [00:16:21.920] leakage of nuclear secrets in the 1940s [00:16:24.720] and the subse subsequent proliferation [00:16:26.720] of nuclear weapons which still continues [00:16:28.880] to shape a significant portion of US [00:16:31.120] foreign policy. Has black science taken [00:16:34.240] over. Thank you for all your hard work. [00:16:37.199] >> I don’t know if I accept the proposition [00:16:38.959] that Eric Weinstein is saying that the [00:16:41.360] legacy program is Manhattan Project 2.0. [00:16:44.880] My take away from what Eric’s been [00:16:46.560] saying is that he’s using the Manhattan [00:16:49.440] project as a benchmark to criticize the [00:16:52.240] legacy program structure and highlight [00:16:55.279] what it lacks. And what he’s been [00:16:57.040] saying, if I’m wrong, feel free to shout [00:16:59.120] at me, but what he’s been saying is that [00:17:01.360] there’s a lack of top physicists. Eric [00:17:03.759] works on the principle that because he’s [00:17:06.160] an eminent physicist and mathematician [00:17:08.160] himself, he would surely know who these [00:17:11.199] top physicists were who had been draoned [00:17:14.319] into the legacy program who would [00:17:16.400] presumably know and be involved in this [00:17:18.799] work. And a lot of Eric’s work has been [00:17:21.919] um focused recently in criticizing the [00:17:24.720] uh modern physics focus on string [00:17:26.880] theory. And he’s postulated that maybe [00:17:29.039] string theory has just been a big [00:17:30.640] diversion, a deliberate red gangle to [00:17:34.240] try and distract us from what’s really [00:17:36.000] happening in physics behind the scene [00:17:38.240] and perhaps in these legacy programs. [00:17:41.919] Weinstein, I’ve actually looked [00:17:43.440] previously at the quotes. He said, “This [00:17:45.120] thing is not a legacy program. H sorry, [00:17:47.360] this legacy program is not a Manhattan [00:17:49.760] project.” Um he he notes that the [00:17:53.039] original Manhattan project integrated [00:17:55.280] top academics and theorists for rapid [00:17:57.919] breakthroughs. And my takeaway from what [00:18:00.160] Eric’s been saying is that he hasn’t [00:18:03.360] seen the loss of those top theorists and [00:18:07.120] uh academics that would have been [00:18:09.520] capable of making those breakthroughs. [00:18:12.320] And if you accept what some people say [00:18:15.360] about the legacy program that it hasn’t [00:18:17.200] been able to make significant advances [00:18:18.960] in material science or propulsion or [00:18:21.280] energy systems because of the lack of [00:18:23.840] ability to do good science, maybe that’s [00:18:26.559] the explanation he’s saying. And Eric’s [00:18:29.760] point is that without elite physicists, [00:18:32.960] the detectives of reality, I think he’s [00:18:34.960] called them, without their progress on [00:18:37.440] reverse engineering, the the whole the [00:18:40.240] whole legacy program has apparently [00:18:42.240] stalled for decades. I’m actually not [00:18:44.559] buying that. I don’t buy that. That’s a [00:18:46.240] line that’s pushed by some uh who I [00:18:49.120] suspect are pushing a legacy program [00:18:51.200] imperative. My understanding is that the [00:18:52.960] legacy program has made quite a number [00:18:54.799] of breakthroughs particularly on [00:18:56.960] propulsion and energy systems. But what [00:19:01.039] Eric Weinstein has said he speculated [00:19:03.840] that if a true highlevel secretive [00:19:06.559] effort on gravity and exotic propulsion [00:19:09.200] UAP related physics exists, it might [00:19:13.520] resemble a modern Manhattan project. So [00:19:16.480] it’s compartmentalized [00:19:18.320] outside of what’s visible inside the [00:19:20.480] government. [00:19:21.679] And one of the companies that he’s [00:19:23.200] actually highlighted is a company called [00:19:24.720] Renaissance Technologies. I have to [00:19:27.280] admit it’s one we’re going to be taking [00:19:28.480] a much closer look at as a result of [00:19:30.880] Eric’s pointer. Um [00:19:34.960] I I think that whatever the case is the [00:19:38.559] the what I’m hearing from people in the [00:19:40.559] program is that there are insufficient [00:19:43.520] scientists to do the kind of work that’s [00:19:45.919] needed particularly to get breakthroughs [00:19:48.160] on material science. And I’ve spoken to [00:19:52.559] two people who’ve told me that the the [00:19:56.000] big issue is that a lot of the best [00:19:57.679] material science work in the world is [00:19:59.679] being done by European scientists. And [00:20:02.000] whilst Europeans are allegedly our [00:20:04.400] allies, particularly the Germans, there [00:20:07.200] hasn’t been a lot of sharing on material [00:20:09.440] science because the Americans have been [00:20:11.280] jealously trying to guard this legacy [00:20:13.280] program stuff for themselves. And so [00:20:15.919] that’s where I do accord with what [00:20:17.600] Eric’s saying. I think that there’s been [00:20:19.280] a problem with the legacy program of [00:20:22.320] excessive compartmentalization, [00:20:24.640] excessive secrecy. Um, but they have [00:20:27.520] made breakthroughs. my understanding, [00:20:29.280] but my understanding is that um uh what [00:20:32.080] Eric’s been talking about with the [00:20:33.840] Manhattan project is that there’s a [00:20:35.679] significant difference between the [00:20:37.200] Manhattan project and the legacy program [00:20:39.760] in that if anyone had really been [00:20:42.159] looking back in the ’ 40s, they would [00:20:43.919] have noticed that all of the world’s top [00:20:46.080] physicists with a knowledge of potential [00:20:48.559] nuclear fishision had suddenly dropped [00:20:51.200] off the map. In this case, the top [00:20:54.080] physicists, the top scientists who ought [00:20:56.480] properly to be involved, you would [00:20:58.240] summize, in developing exotic propulsion [00:21:01.200] technologies, reverse engineering UAP [00:21:04.080] tech. They don’t visibly appear to be [00:21:07.679] being involved, but maybe they are. We [00:21:10.799] just don’t know. [00:21:12.559] >> All right, here is an email from Wyatt. [00:21:14.640] Hello, Mr. Coldart. Thank you for your [00:21:16.240] continuing coverage and dedication, the [00:21:18.240] subject of disclosure. My question is [00:21:19.919] about China Lake. My grandfather worked [00:21:22.480] there as a civilian contractor in the [00:21:24.320] 1970s in the field of lasers and helped [00:21:27.120] develop the first Sidewinder missile. He [00:21:29.679] sadly passed away when I was only 10 and [00:21:31.840] we never talked about his work there. I [00:21:33.600] wish I could talk to him now since all [00:21:35.039] this stuff is coming out. I was [00:21:36.799] wondering what you know and can share [00:21:38.480] about China Lake as it pertains to the [00:21:40.480] UFO UAP subject. Thank you again. [00:21:42.960] >> I have no doubt whatsoever that China [00:21:45.039] Lake has been heavily involved in the [00:21:48.159] UAP legacy program. Um many years ago I [00:21:52.640] spoke to a guy called uh Natt Kobitz [00:21:55.280] from the US Navy research development. [00:21:58.159] He was the head of R&D basically for the [00:22:00.480] US Navy chief geek and I asked him about [00:22:03.360] China Lake and [00:22:06.159] he admitted to me that he had been read [00:22:09.520] in to certain programs compartmentalized [00:22:12.960] programs that involved the recovery of [00:22:15.360] nonhuman craft. When I asked him about [00:22:18.640] China Lake, he said that in his time it [00:22:21.520] didn’t feature as a big area for [00:22:25.120] development of that technology. But I’ll [00:22:27.679] tell you two things that are actually [00:22:29.039] coming recently into my data. First is [00:22:32.159] I’m told that China Lake at the moment [00:22:34.400] is having a huge problem with UAPs. They [00:22:38.559] are being swarmed. It’s actually such a [00:22:41.360] problem that it’s hindered their ability [00:22:43.039] to do weapons testing. This is a a [00:22:45.440] location where they’re doing a lot of [00:22:46.960] laser research, uh, a lot of rocket [00:22:49.360] testing. It’s a huge remote part of the [00:22:52.400] United States where the United States [00:22:54.080] gets to test all its latest weaponry. [00:22:56.880] And allegedly, there’s been a constant [00:23:00.400] presence in the last couple of years of [00:23:03.840] what they believe are nonhuman craft [00:23:07.039] over China Lake. And I’ve spoken to [00:23:09.840] multiple people now, security personnel, [00:23:12.400] scientists, military, who have confirmed [00:23:15.760] that these swarms are occurring, that [00:23:18.080] it’s a huge problem, and they don’t know [00:23:19.840] what to do about it. China Lake is one [00:23:23.600] of the areas, I’m told, where the United [00:23:26.159] States was using both psionics and the [00:23:29.679] dog whistle and high pulse microwaves to [00:23:32.799] down alien craft. they have brought down [00:23:37.280] craft in China Lake. That’s my [00:23:39.120] understanding. [00:23:40.799] Um I don’t know if there’s much reverse [00:23:43.840] engineering going on there. Uh my good [00:23:45.760] friend and colleague Michael [00:23:47.039] Shelonburgger, the journalist, gave an [00:23:49.520] example to Congress in 2024 [00:23:52.240] about a historical sighting by personnel [00:23:55.200] at the Naval Ordinance Test Station, now [00:23:58.159] known as China Lake, where an object was [00:24:00.559] observed flying towards observers. And [00:24:02.799] frankly, this is one of innumerable [00:24:04.720] sightings that have taken place over [00:24:06.400] there. Um, there is, of course, no [00:24:09.520] official corroboration that China Lake [00:24:11.919] has anything to do with UAP research, [00:24:14.240] but I’m telling you, it does. [00:24:17.679] >> All right, we will go to an email from [00:24:19.760] Nathan. Hey there, Ross and Megan. [00:24:21.440] Thanks for a great show and keep up the [00:24:22.720] good work. I have a legal question about [00:24:24.720] disclosure and whistleblowers. When [00:24:26.720] recently watching the documentary Battle [00:24:28.480] for Disclosure, I saw a part where Dr. [00:24:30.320] career made an interesting point that I [00:24:32.799] had often thought about in the past but [00:24:34.880] had forgotten. The question is how can [00:24:37.200] the deep state gatekeepers hold [00:24:39.520] whistleblowers to the law that is by [00:24:42.080] non-disclosure agreements when the [00:24:43.600] gatekeepers have already broken the law [00:24:45.840] many times themselves? Okay, look that [00:24:48.400] is a good question and and there is it [00:24:50.480] takes a bit of answering but the basic [00:24:52.559] point that I’d make is that um the fact [00:24:56.640] that the program itself may be operating [00:25:00.720] illegally doesn’t alter the contractual [00:25:04.720] obligations that potential employees [00:25:07.520] government employees or contractor [00:25:09.360] employees owe to their employer through [00:25:12.320] an NDA through a non-disclosure [00:25:14.400] agreement and so NDAs and secrecy obl [00:25:17.200] obligations in classified programs are [00:25:19.360] enforced primarily through criminal law, [00:25:21.760] not just contracts. So, believe it or [00:25:24.159] not, yeah, if you reveal the existence [00:25:28.240] of a secret military program which is [00:25:31.039] arguably operating illegally, as we [00:25:33.520] suspect some of them are, because [00:25:35.279] they’re not properly accounted for to [00:25:37.039] Congress, even though they’re spending [00:25:38.480] public monies and not properly [00:25:39.919] accounting for those monies, to reveal [00:25:42.559] the existence of that military [00:25:44.400] technology or to give any details away [00:25:46.480] of it, would, I’m sure, put you in [00:25:48.960] breach of your compartmentalized top [00:25:51.120] secret security clearances. [00:25:52.960] And this is something that the National [00:25:55.039] Defense Authorization Act was trying to [00:25:57.600] address with various um whistleblower [00:26:00.480] laws that were endeavored to be brought [00:26:02.880] in in order to protect whistleblowers, [00:26:05.840] particularly contractors because [00:26:07.679] contractors working for private military [00:26:09.919] corporations are in a much weaker [00:26:12.400] position. Now, it gets a bit [00:26:14.480] complicated, but I think this is worth [00:26:16.000] explaining because this is something [00:26:17.440] that’s going to be raised at next week’s [00:26:19.600] press conference on June the 9th when [00:26:22.240] David Grush, Leslie Kaine, James Fox, [00:26:24.880] and numerous members of the UAP caucus [00:26:27.760] are going to be presenting an argument [00:26:29.600] for these UAP disclosure laws to be [00:26:32.400] readmitted to Congress. And at the heart [00:26:35.200] of it is the fact that even if a program [00:26:38.000] is operating illegally outside of [00:26:40.320] congressional authorization, the [00:26:42.880] criminal restraints on employees or the [00:26:46.240] contractual restraints on employees from [00:26:48.799] revealing information do you know [00:26:50.960] they’re not exonerated or or excalpated [00:26:53.200] from breaching those clauses even if the [00:26:56.320] operation that they’re working on is [00:26:58.400] arguably illegal. And it’s an [00:27:00.000] interesting quirk of the laws that have [00:27:02.240] been created. Unauthorized disclosure of [00:27:05.360] classified information is illegal under [00:27:08.640] laws like the US Espionage Act and these [00:27:12.240] apply regardless of whether the program [00:27:14.880] was properly funded or reported i.e. [00:27:17.600] illegal. Prosecutions target the active [00:27:20.799] disclosure to unauthorized persons, not [00:27:23.360] the program’s internal compliance. [00:27:26.080] Although there may be consequences for [00:27:28.080] the people who’ve made that program not [00:27:30.159] comply, although that very rarely [00:27:32.240] happens. [gasps] The courts have [00:27:35.039] recognized that the president has a [00:27:37.200] broad constitutional power as the [00:27:39.200] commander-in-chief to classify and [00:27:41.600] control national security information [00:27:44.720] independent of explicit congressional [00:27:47.600] approval in many cases. And this creates [00:27:50.960] a strong preference to secrecy in [00:27:53.200] special access programs including waved [00:27:56.000] unacknowledged special access programs. [00:27:58.080] Wooaps the biggest secrets of all. And [00:28:01.600] if as we understand it there is some [00:28:04.080] kind of presidential emergency action [00:28:06.559] directive appe which basically ordered [00:28:09.679] back in the Eisenhower and Truman days [00:28:12.000] for this whole program to be buried [00:28:14.399] under classified programs and concealed [00:28:16.799] from the Congress. that might provide [00:28:20.320] some out for the gatekeepers. I don’t [00:28:23.039] think it exonerates them completely. [00:28:24.720] They’ve still got some explaining to do, [00:28:26.799] but it it certainly doesn’t exonerate [00:28:29.120] the people that would be coming forward. [00:28:30.799] I mean, if somebody came to me with [00:28:32.480] plans for a uh reverse engineered alien [00:28:35.760] spacecraft with top secret tsci written [00:28:39.120] all over it, I wouldn’t be able to do [00:28:40.880] that story without getting prosecuted. [00:28:43.039] That’s the huge dilemma that we have [00:28:44.880] with American espionage laws. What I [00:28:47.360] would do is I would urge that person to [00:28:49.679] go to the congressional committees that [00:28:51.679] have got the oversight capabilities to [00:28:53.760] hear that evidence in a skiff. And I can [00:28:56.799] tell you that has happened. Those [00:28:58.960] witnesses have been directed to the [00:29:01.200] Congress and my understanding is that [00:29:03.440] their evidence has been given to the [00:29:06.159] Congress. So in short, the gatekeepers [00:29:09.520] don’t need the program to be legal to [00:29:11.679] pursue leakers. The c the government [00:29:14.320] does and can prosecute and investigate [00:29:17.600] leakers via the Department of Justice. [00:29:20.000] They can revoke their clearances, impose [00:29:22.000] administrative penalties, and sue for [00:29:24.559] breach. The claims that there’s a deep [00:29:27.039] state don’t nullify those tools in [00:29:30.080] court. The state can still screw you. [00:29:33.440] Now, there are whistleblower [00:29:35.440] protections, and this is what the UAP [00:29:38.159] caucus, my good friend David Grush, and [00:29:41.360] others are endeavoring to try and fix. [00:29:44.480] And this is what has been frustrated in [00:29:47.200] past efforts. I think Mike Turner is one [00:29:49.279] of the main offenders. People have [00:29:51.360] blocked this legislation from being put [00:29:53.679] into the National Defense Authorization [00:29:55.840] Act. And the only reason for doing that [00:29:58.399] would be to try and obfuscate efforts to [00:30:00.720] expose the legacy program. [00:30:03.120] Now, employees of the state can report [00:30:06.799] to Congress with protections. There’s [00:30:08.960] the Inspector General um via um uh [00:30:13.840] PPD19, [00:30:15.360] urgent concerns, which is essentially a [00:30:17.760] a disclosure for people related to the [00:30:20.480] intelligence community. David Grush used [00:30:23.440] PPD19 claiming a multi-deade crash [00:30:26.960] retrieval reverse engineering program [00:30:29.039] hidden from Congress with nonhuman [00:30:31.440] biologics and they haven’t prosecuted [00:30:33.200] him for that as much as they would have [00:30:34.559] liked to. [gasps] David faced [00:30:36.480] retaliation claims but as a [00:30:38.159] whistleblower because he complied with [00:30:40.080] the law. There were no public charges [00:30:42.399] for his testimony which relied uh at [00:30:45.360] least superficially on secondhand [00:30:47.520] accounts although David has since said [00:30:49.840] that he had firhand knowledge. Now the [00:30:53.039] limits to those protections they cover [00:30:55.760] misconduct reporting waste abuse [00:30:58.799] illegality but not declassifying or [00:31:02.559] publicly identifying properly classified [00:31:05.520] details. So, look, I can understand that [00:31:08.320] as much as a journalist that I’m all in [00:31:10.080] favor of exposing the truth, I don’t [00:31:12.720] want the classified details of, say, a [00:31:15.279] new missile program at China Lake to be [00:31:17.600] revealed inadvertently to the public and [00:31:20.000] to potential foreign adversary rivals [00:31:22.320] because we’re chasing a story. As [00:31:24.240] journalists, we have to measure the [00:31:26.559] importance of national security against [00:31:29.279] the public’s right to know. We don’t [00:31:31.039] want the Chinese or the Russians getting [00:31:33.120] the very latest weapons technology, [00:31:35.200] although the Chinese seem to be doing a [00:31:37.200] really good job of that, seeing they’ve [00:31:38.640] been able to replicate our latest [00:31:40.159] fighters by stealing the blueprints. Um [00:31:42.960] the practical realities are that the [00:31:46.240] claims of the legacy programs and [00:31:49.200] retrieved tech at the moment officially [00:31:51.840] they are unverified. But Congress is [00:31:54.640] taking this incredibly seriously and I [00:31:56.799] don’t doubt for a moment that the [00:31:58.640] congressional committees believe that [00:32:00.320] it’s true and certainly the Senate [00:32:02.159] Select Committee for Intelligence they [00:32:04.399] are they are taking this very very [00:32:06.320] seriously. Where there is a weakness [00:32:08.880] that I perceive is for contractors, [00:32:11.840] people who aren’t directly employed by [00:32:13.840] the US government, but who are working [00:32:15.679] for private military contractors, PMC’s, [00:32:18.399] the big aerospace companies, the Northre [00:32:20.880] Grummans, the Loheed Martins. They have [00:32:23.760] very fragmented fragmented whistleblower [00:32:27.200] protections. They don’t get the same [00:32:28.880] kind of protections as federal [00:32:30.559] employees. Federal employees are covered [00:32:33.440] by the whistleblower protection act and [00:32:35.360] the whistleblower protection enhancement [00:32:37.200] act that prohibit retaliation. [00:32:40.480] Um contractors aren’t covered by the [00:32:43.279] standard whistleblower protection laws. [00:32:45.440] Instead, they rely on the National [00:32:47.679] Defense Authorization Act provisions [00:32:49.679] that protect against dis discharge [00:32:52.080] demotion or discrimination for similar [00:32:54.640] disclosures related to federal contracts [00:32:56.640] or grants. And the complaints go to the [00:32:59.360] AY’s Inspectors General. The remedies [00:33:01.679] can include reinstatement and back pay. [00:33:04.480] Um they expressly exclude intelligence [00:33:08.559] community elements. [00:33:10.799] Uh on the intelligence community [00:33:13.039] specific rules, the PPD19, which is the [00:33:15.840] presidential policy directive 19, those [00:33:18.720] are whistleblower protections for the [00:33:20.480] intelligence community. If you’re [00:33:21.919] somebody in the CIA and you want to tell [00:33:23.840] all. [sighs and gasps] [00:33:24.960] Now, contractors have gained explicit [00:33:27.360] anti- retaliation protections for lawful [00:33:29.840] disclosures, including to the [00:33:31.360] inspector’s general or Congress for [00:33:33.279] urgent concerns, and we’ve seen how [00:33:35.519] badly that’s gone when people like David [00:33:37.279] Grush have gone to the Inspector’s [00:33:38.799] General. They’ve just been knobbled or [00:33:40.880] in fact shut down. Um, security [00:33:44.080] clearance retaliation is separately [00:33:46.159] barred. However, the PPD19 personnel [00:33:49.840] action protections are very limited for [00:33:52.720] contractors. They’re mainly focused on [00:33:55.120] clearances and enforcement is largely [00:33:57.360] internal via the agency. It’s a huge [00:34:00.320] weakness and frankly I think it needs to [00:34:02.399] be corrected because a lot of the people [00:34:04.559] talking to me are contractors and [00:34:07.440] they’re terrified about coming forward [00:34:09.359] because they know they will be the [00:34:11.040] subject of retaliation by their [00:34:12.879] employers and they know there’s precious [00:34:15.119] little the Congress or the US government [00:34:17.359] can do about it. And if President Trump [00:34:19.280] is serious about advocating for [00:34:21.919] transparency and revealing the existence [00:34:24.240] of what transparently is some kind of a [00:34:26.879] deep state, he really needs to do [00:34:29.359] something about the whistleblower [00:34:30.720] protection laws and make sure that the [00:34:32.800] disclosure protections are beefed up and [00:34:35.200] improved. And that’s a lot of what next [00:34:38.320] week’s conference, press conference on [00:34:40.639] the steps of the capital is all about. [00:34:44.000] >> All right. Thank you, Ross. That was the [00:34:45.359] last one for today. [00:34:47.520] Oh, so we’re all done. Thank you very [00:34:49.599] much, Megan. Um, so I I do commend to [00:34:52.399] everybody if there’s anybody who’s in [00:34:54.079] Washington on the East Coast next week, [00:34:56.079] please go to the steps of the capital [00:34:58.160] and attend this important function. It’s [00:35:00.800] a press conference, but it’s an event. [00:35:02.640] Essentially, it’s a line in the sand. [00:35:05.119] It’s quite significant that David Grush [00:35:07.280] is making one of his rare public [00:35:09.200] appearances and opening himself up for [00:35:11.200] questions. The reason he’s doing this is [00:35:13.599] because he’s as concerned as the rest of [00:35:15.440] us that the president might wimp it. [00:35:18.960] There’s a huge push back right now from [00:35:21.040] the gatekeepers. They are pushing [00:35:23.280] incredibly hard in the White House [00:35:25.280] trying to impress on people like Steven [00:35:27.760] Miller and other [clears throat] people [00:35:29.680] in the White House National Security [00:35:31.520] Council that there’s no good to be [00:35:34.079] gained from revealing the existence of [00:35:36.079] the legacy program. My point is that all [00:35:39.200] President Trump needs to do is stand up [00:35:41.520] and do what President Truman did greatly [00:35:44.400] back in the 1940s when he revealed the [00:35:46.880] existence of the atomic bomb. The [00:35:49.680] American people were told that America [00:35:51.920] had single-handedly developed the most [00:35:54.400] extraordinary weapon in history. Now, [00:35:57.119] the details of that weapon were not [00:35:59.359] released. Nobody should know and most of [00:36:02.400] the American public don’t know how to [00:36:04.640] make a nuclear bomb. There are secrecy [00:36:07.280] protections that protect that from [00:36:08.960] happening. In this case, there is [00:36:11.119] absolutely no reason, I think, why the [00:36:13.440] president can’t stand up and reveal the [00:36:15.839] existence, if it is the case, and I [00:36:18.000] suspect it is, of a nonhuman [00:36:20.000] intelligence engaging with this planet. [00:36:22.800] And frankly, nothing would stamp [00:36:24.880] President Trump more in greatness in [00:36:27.599] history as going down as the president [00:36:30.560] who told the American public the truth [00:36:33.680] about this biggest secret in human [00:36:36.079] history. There’s a big decision to be [00:36:38.720] made both in the White House and in the [00:36:40.960] Congress. Let’s hope they make the right [00:36:42.720] one. Thanks very much, Megan. And of [00:36:44.640] course, if you want to ask any [00:36:46.160] questions, you can direct them to [00:36:47.599] reality check@newsnationow.com. [00:36:50.800] And of course, you can listen to us now [00:36:52.800] on all good audio podcasts, including [00:36:55.520] Audible and Spotify, because too much [00:36:58.800] reality check is barely enough. Thank [00:37:01.680] you very much. [00:37:03.119] >> Thanks, Ross. [00:37:06.480] >> Hey everybody, Megan Medic here from [00:37:08.320] Unreported and Reality Check. I’ve got a [00:37:11.200] big question for you. Why is nobody [00:37:13.200] talking about the massive news that NASA [00:37:15.599] is saying we’re going to have people [00:37:17.440] actually living on the moon and we’re [00:37:19.119] building a lunar moon base? I talked to [00:37:22.079] an absolute expert in this field, [00:37:24.000] Kristen Fischer. She is the host of the [00:37:26.400] Endless Void. Her parents were NASA [00:37:29.040] astronauts and we talked about the [00:37:30.720] Aremis explosion. Could this sat NASA [00:37:33.200] back and what actually went wrong there? [00:37:36.079] Was it China? Tune in on Wednesday to [00:37:38.640] find out.