UAP Gerb on the Danny Jones Podcast — “Deep Sea Alien Bases: The Underwater CIA Project No One Talks About”
Source: The Danny Jones Podcast (YouTube channel @DannyJones), guest UAP Gerb (@UAPGerb).
URL: https://youtu.be/QJiYc-6XcIU
Published: 2025-08-04. Duration: 2:35:43.
Captured: 2026-06-28 via Antigravity CLI (agy, model “Gemini 3.5 Flash (High)”) on 600s video chunks (320px / 1fps); timestamps continuous across chunks. Two speakers (host Danny Jones, guest UAP Gerb); on-screen visuals noted as [Visual, …]. Verbatim machine transcription with machine-assigned speaker labels — proper nouns, acronyms, unit designations, and names may be mis-rendered; verify any specific citation against the video.
What this is: a wide-ranging interview in which Gerb walks through the Jonathan Weygandt 1997 Peru (“Operation Laser Strike”) crash-retrieval account, deep-sea / underwater USO and alleged undersea-base material, the legal-administrative secrecy architecture (1954 Atomic Energy Act, eminent-domain disclosure proposals), and related crash-retrieval-program claims. Primary source for gerb-uap-open-source-researcher; also the load-bearing UAP-overlay source for nuro-national-underwater-reconnaissance-office (his NURO / National Underwater Reconnaissance Office exposition).
[Visual, 0:00] Danny Jones Podcast animated intro. [Visual, 0:07] Danny Jones and guest UAP Gerb in the podcast studio. [Danny Jones, 0:07] That, that documentary on Jonathan Weygandt, I, like, I’d heard of him, [UAP Gerb, 0:10] Mm-hmm. [Danny Jones, 0:11] but I had never heard any of the back story that you described. What was going on in, what was it, Peru, that was? [UAP Gerb, 0:18] Yeah. 1997, Operation Laser Strike. [Danny Jones, 0:21] Operation Laser Strike, never heard of it. [UAP Gerb, 0:23] So, this was a classified US Southcom, US Southern Command operation to track narco-traffic, drug traffic, in Peru, Colombia, Bolivia, all sorts of, uh, South American countries. And the MACG, the Marine Air Control Group, uh, 28, was sent down, uh, alongside some elements of the Air Force and a pretty large joint program, including the CIA, to set up TPS-43 and other radar systems to track some of these narco planes. And so Jonathan Weygandt, there’s still debate on whether his station was in Pucallpa, Peru, which is kind of central Peru, uh, Iquitos, Peru, which is northern Peru, because he wasn’t privy to where he was taken for, for this radar detachment to track the narco traffic. I personally think this is northern Peru because he just gave a lot of details about the flight time down to Peru, details about time spent on planes. So, one morning, late March, early April, he is doing nighttime guard duty. And a sergeant comes up to him, I think this is Sergeant Montalegre, and says, “Hey, there’s been a crashed craft. We need to go out and see if it’s friendly.” Nothing about UFOs, just a craft crash, this could be a plane. So Weygandt, Sergeant Allen, Sergeant Adkins, and about seven other Marines, all drive in a direction to go find this downed aircraft. By the time they reach the LZ after a combination of driving and trekking, the Marines come across a ravine where a, about 20-meter in length, egg-shaped craft is just stuck in a granite cliff face. Probably granite, Weygandt doesn’t fully know for sure what the material is, but wedged in there. There’s fluid leaking out of the craft. There’s what looks to be three hatches, one of them open with possibly a non-human arm hanging out of the craft. And this liquid is like clear, but it’s viscous like syrup. And the craft itself looks somewhat metallic but it’s changing colors like purple and green, and the best I can describe that is the mother of pearl effect, similar to oil on water. [Danny Jones, 2:15] Mm-hmm. [UAP Gerb, 2:16] So Weygandt gets pretty close to the craft. It’s, it’s way above him, but he gets pretty close under it. He gets the fluid all over himself and it’s to this day like removed hair from his legs. It discolored his cammies or his battle dress uniform. And so after about 10 to 15 minutes at the site, and some interesting details about the craft is there was a, a light going around its circumference that seemed to power down, almost seemed like the craft shut off including a, a sound like a guitar amp that eventually died down. Weygandt eventually kind of came to, hearing Monte- or sorry, hearing Sergeants Allen and Adkins yelling at him to, “Hey, step away from the craft.” [Danny Jones, 2:50] Mm-hmm. [UAP Gerb, 2:51] And during this time he felt, like, I know you and Jesse talked about Jake Barber and some of the psionics and stuff. [Danny Jones, 2:56] Yeah. [UAP Gerb, 2:57] He felt like there was something in the craft reaching out to him, trying to communicate with him, trying to tell him that it was okay, don’t worry, help us, but it’s all going to be okay, which is really bizarre, really strange. And to this day he has seen like these creatures, what he calls them, in his dreams that were in the craft. He, he doesn’t know how to explain how he felt like these things were contacting him. But it’s really strange, but here’s where… [Danny Jones, 3:21] When did he say this for the first time publicly? [UAP Gerb, 3:24] 2000, the year 2000, on Steven Greer’s, uh, Disclosure Project archive. [Danny Jones, 3:28] Wow. [UAP Gerb, 3:29] So, he was part of the 2000 disclosure briefing project where Greer was doing some really good work getting whistleblowers together. And Weygandt’s testimony was in there and has really stood out forever. He reached out to Greer because he was facing a lot of reprisals and he thought he was going to die. [Danny Jones, 3:44] Wow. [UAP Gerb, 3:45] So there’s some stuff he doesn’t like talking about, um, and he didn’t really talk about live with me, but stuff like being surveilled, having his money messed with, having, you know, his cars tampered with, and he was just really afraid for his life, so he decided to speak out. [Danny Jones, 4:00] But so how long ago did you talk to him? [UAP Gerb, 4:02] Uh, I talked to him almost daily, but I… [Danny Jones, 4:04] You talk to him daily? [UAP Gerb, 4:05] Yeah, he’s one of my good friends, I love Jonathan. [Danny Jones, 4:07] Oh. [UAP Gerb, 4:08] He’s a stand up guy, he’s hilarious, he’s great. Uh, so I, I talk to him all the time. But getting back to his story, so Sergeant Allen and Sergeant Adkins holler at him to move away from the craft. As soon as these Marines start heading up the, the ravine, and this is the most interesting part to me because, you know, my channel is pretty focused around crash retrieval and reverse engineering… [Danny Jones, 4:26] Mm-hmm. [UAP Gerb, 4:27] a couple of US Army CH-47 helicopters fly over them. As these helicopters are getting to land in a nearby clearing, the Marines, including Weygandt, including Allen, including Adkins, are intercepted by a team of men in black camouflage. And stop me if this sounds familiar when you hear cases like Michael Herrera. A team of men in black camouflage that apprehend the Marines, strip them of their gear. Weygandt being feisty, being like 23 years old, tries to swing at one of them, clocks him in the head. And these guys at that point make an example out of Weygandt, push his face in the ground, he gets more of the liquid on him, beat the crap out of him. And then out of the helicopters come a team of people ranging from rain jackets to large hazmat gear, MOPP gear, mission-oriented protective posture, marked and stamped with DOE, Department of Energy. [Danny Jones, 5:18] No shit. [UAP Gerb, 5:19] And so a couple of these DOE guys in protective gear see Weygandt, they strip him of his clothes, Weygandt is handcuffed to a stretcher, his feet are gagged, and he is put on a CH-47 out of there. Doesn’t know what happened to Adkin or Allens. But here’s what’s, what’s really interesting about the DOE. The Department of Energy has its own team, it’s called the Nuclear Emergency Support Team. And this is basically a rapid reaction team that can be sent anywhere in the continental United States or around the world to react to nuclear or radiological signatures. [Danny Jones, 5:50] Mm. [UAP Gerb, 5:51] And one of the governing bodies of NEST, the DOE NEST, Nuclear Emergency Support Team, is a 1954 Atomic Energy Agreement. 1954, if this sounds familiar to you, are you familiar with the 2023 and 2024 National Defense Authorization Act, uh, UAP disclosure, uh, disclosure amendment? I know I’m throwing a lot… [Danny Jones, 6:11] I’m familiar with it but I, I don’t, I don’t know a lot of the details. [UAP Gerb, 6:14] Okay, so like a, a quick side note to that, the UAPDA, which is probably going to be pushed again in, in the upcoming Senate conference, I hope that that gets pushed through, but the whole point of this amendment was to bring forth disclosure of UFO legacy programs, programs hidden within the US Department of Defense and intelligence communities that are housing, exploiting, or reverse engineering technologies of unknown origin, TUOs. And one of the governing bodies listed in this legislation that hides some of these materials is the 1954 Atomic Energy Act that considers UFO materials as trans-classified foreign nuclear materials. So inherently that, that means like anything that could be considered nuclear, radiological is pretty much born restricted, born classified, and can be pigeonholed to avoid standard declassification processes. What’s interesting about the DOE NEST is their founding authority was also the 1954 Atomic Energy Agreement. So you have legislation like the UAPDA talking about 54 being how the classification system for UFO materials is born, and then you have stories like Jonathan Weygandt encountering DOE teams whose given authority is that same 54 agreement. So it’s very interesting. Also there’s provable instances that DOE NEST was actually looking to operate in South America—Colombia, Bolivia, Peru—at that time in 1997. There was a Russian probe that went errant, um, it was going to crash. US Southcom thought this Russian probe was going to crash, uh, either in the Pacific or somewhere near Peru and Bolivia. So DOE was actively using defense support program satellites to monitor the region later that year. So DOE NEST was already interested in, in South America. [Danny Jones, 7:51] Wow. And there was a lot of spooky shit going on in South America in the ’90s. Like there’s a lot of, there was a lot of, uh, UFO crash incidents… [UAP Gerb, 7:58] Yeah. [Danny Jones, 7:59] and there was a lot of, I think that Jacques Vallée book was earlier than the ’90s, though. Jacques Vallée wrote a book about like some crazy massacre that happened in South America, um, where like basically all these people were slaughtered. Have you heard of this? [UAP Gerb, 8:12] It sounds somewhat familiar, but I’m, I’m not fully. [Danny Jones, 8:15] I think Jesse was the one who told me about it. But, um, but yeah, no, South America and Mexico, that, that period of time was like very active with this, this kind of stuff. [UAP Gerb, 8:25] Well, because same year we have, uh, Varginha, Brazil, James Fox’s big case, right? [Danny Jones, 8:28] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yep, yep. [UAP Gerb, 8:30] And I guess he’s doing a lot more work on that. He just talked to, I think it was Chris Ramsey or somebody, that he’s got more information coming out about that. So that’ll be pretty darn interesting. In 1978 in Bolivia there was a case of a, uh, almost like a Tic Tac, like a cylindrical-shaped object crashing into the mountains of Bolivia. A US Air Force team called Moondust, Project Moondust, was dispatched to kind of investigate that region. And I’m trying to think what else. In Mexico, kind of like what you’re talking about, in 1974 in Mexico there’s a pretty famous, kind of under-represented crash retrieval case called Coyame, Mexico, Northern Mexico, of a crashed saucer that a Mexican retrieval team went to go get, but there was some sort of toxic or, or biological hazard in the craft that killed the entire Mexican recovery team. And then of course the Americans in their CH-53 Chinooks, uh, swooped in and, and took the craft. However, there’s of course an argument you can make that probably maybe our guys, the Americans, took them out. But there’s a South America and Central America a ton of crash retrieval stories. [Danny Jones, 9:28] Right. [UAP Gerb, 9:29] And a lot of Marine crash retrieval stories. You have Jonathan Weygandt, you have like the testimony of Michael Herrera, and there are some other whistleblowers who aren’t public who have talked about seeing such teams in the continental United States, these black teams, uh, with craft. So it’s, it’s really interesting. And then, uh, kind of rounding out the Weygandt story, he was then on the, on the 47 taken to an unknown base, into an underground section of a base where he was held for two days. [Danny Jones, 9:57] And why was he the only one that was taken out of there? [UAP Gerb, 9:59] That’s a great question. [Visual, 10:00] UAP Gerb speaking on the Danny Jones Podcast. [UAP Gerb, 10:00] question, my guess is because he was contaminated with the liquid. [Danny Jones, 10:03] Oh. [UAP Gerb, 10:04] Atkins and Allen did not get covered in the liquid. But the weird thing is Weygandt didn’t have any like medical tests, right? Because I’ve hypothesized he was taken to the NAMRU, Navy Medical Research Unit 6, in Iquitos, Peru. But it’s not like he was subjected to blood drawn, all that stuff. The one weird thing is he was forced given like, and forced to take an anthrax booster right after that. [Danny Jones, 10:28] An anthrax booster? [UAP Gerb, 10:29] Which Michael Herrera also had to take an anthrax booster after that. [Danny Jones, 10:29] And another… [UAP Gerb, 10:30] Yeah, and another Marine also had to take an anthrax booster in ‘97, which is weird that there’s a lot of anthrax boosters right after crash retrieval encounters. But I think that’s why he separated. So he doesn’t know what happened to Atkins or Allen at this point. [Danny Jones, 10:45] He still hasn’t talked to them since? [UAP Gerb, 10:47] No, he doesn’t like them, they don’t like him. [Danny Jones, 10:49] Oh, wow. [UAP Gerb, 10:50] Part of what’s a little weird about this case is one of those two, Atkins or Allen, I reached out to both, one of them got back to me, and I emailed them, just cordially saying like, “Hey, I’d like to talk to you about your time in Laser Strike specifically 1997 and possibly anomalous crashed aircraft.” And I send emails out from my UAP Gerb email, it doesn’t have my information, none of that. [Danny Jones, 11:09] Right. [UAP Gerb, 11:10] So I email one of them and they respond “Hello” my full name. Which is, of course, like a bully intimidation tactic. And the guy just tried to call Jonathan crazy, tried to downplay him, but, you know, he did say my full name when I had never given out my information before to him. Nor since, nor on my channel. [Danny Jones, 11:29] And Jonathan, did he tell you about like ever being like contacted by anyone from the government or intimidated and tried to like shut them up, shut people trying to shut him up? [UAP Gerb, 11:39] Yeah, and that’s part of the reason he, uh, went to Greer. [Visual, 11:43] Danny Jones introduces a True Classic advertisement. [Danny Jones, 11:43] At True Classic, it’s not just about fit and fabric. It’s about helping everyday guys show up with purpose and confidence every single day. Their gear fits right, it feels amazing, and it’s priced for the everyday person. What sets them apart is the message behind it all. From uplifting men in their daily lives to giving back to underserved communities. And it shows in their ads how they understand the average dude. I’ve been wearing True Classic for a while now and it still impresses me every time I put on their clothes. Their clothes just fit so well, feel so comfortable, and look so good, I want to replace every single shirt in my closet with True Classic. Forget the overpriced designer nonsense and skip the generic cookie cutter potato sacks. True Classic delivers premium essentials built for real life. Whether you’re out on the town or working up a sweat, level up your style with clothes that fit any scenario. Grab yours at Target or Costco, but for the best deals, head on over to trueclassic.com/danny. That’s t-r-u-e-c-l-a-s-s-i-c.com/danny to get hooked up today. It’s linked down below. Now back to the show. [Visual, 11:50] A man is shown first in a baggy red shirt under “Other Brands”, then in a fitted white shirt under “True Classic”. [Visual, 11:57] An interactive computerized interface displays a model trying on a shirt. [Visual, 12:17] A website display showing different True Classic clothing products. [Visual, 12:21] Side-by-side comparison of “Other Brands” vs. “True Classic” jeans. [Visual, 12:29] Catalog product page showing “Classic Pima Crew 4-Pack” and adding to cart. [Visual, 12:33] Typing “trueclassic.com/danny” into a web browser address bar. [Visual, 12:45] Cut back to the podcast studio interview with UAP Gerb. [UAP Gerb, 12:45] He said that the FBI would show up at his house and show up at his grandma’s house, like looking to talk to him. He never talked to them, but, so he was pretty spooked. Sort of like the Men in Black, right? If you want to call them the Men in Black, telling people not to talk about their encounters. [Danny Jones, 12:58] Right. Right. [Danny Jones, 13:00] And these, these, these NEST teams. So these NEST teams are part of the Department of Energy, and it’s basically like they they comp, they they bring in all of the like top tier special operators? [UAP Gerb, 13:12] Not quite, and I’m sorry, I should have specified that more. It’s more of a science and technology team. [Danny Jones, 13:16] Okay. [UAP Gerb, 13:17] They just deal with the science, they deal with setting up a site, neutralizing signatures, debriefing containment, all that stuff. But the interesting thing about NEST is, of course, it is a DOE department, but it operates out of contractors. Contractors including Raytheon, Lawrence Livermore National Labs, Sandia National Labs, and EG&G. EG&G, of course, is the infamous company Bob Lazar said hired him to work at Area 51 S4 to reverse engineer propulsion devices on the sports model. [Danny Jones, 13:46] Yeah. [Danny Jones, 13:47] I know you cover it deeply in your video. But like after they extracted him out, does he or does anyone else have any idea what happened to that craft or what they could have done with it? [UAP Gerb, 13:55] No. And that, Jonathan and I talked about that. I mean, that thing was pretty large. And if it was stuck in granite, how the heck was that thing taken out, right? Like there were CH-47s on the ground. The team would have had to extract this thing from a granite cliff face, almost. [Danny Jones, 14:08] And how does a, does something get lodged in granite? You would think that like it would have, that would mean it’s harder than granite. [UAP Gerb, 14:16] Right. [Danny Jones, 14:17] If it went through the granite. [Danny Jones, 14:18] What kind of material is harder than granite? [UAP Gerb, 14:21] I don’t, some sort of meta metamaterial, maybe like a shield around it. Maybe that translucent mother-of-pearl effect was some sort of shield-like material. And why did it crash? I know you and Jesse talked a little bit about why UFOs crash, but Jonathan hypothesizes that this was shot down from a Hawk MIM-23 or similar missile system. [Danny Jones, 14:39] Mhm. [UAP Gerb, 14:40] And I know, you know, how our highly advanced non-human craft shot down, right? It seems a little bit silly a ballistic missile could take down a spacecraft like that. Well, you know, maybe maybe there’s some some truth to that. There’s some other cases we can talk about about shootdowns as well as the Strategic Defense Initiative under Reagan, which there’s a lot of really interesting ties that there were some backdoor programs for some space-based shootdown weapons of UFOs. But what Weygandt thinks here is this was a Hawk MIM-23 airburst system that just exploded near the target, and some of the fragging just took it out. [Danny Jones, 15:09] Oh, like a shotgun blast missile, kind of. [UAP Gerb, 15:11] Yeah, but that’s what he thinks, right? He doesn’t have any sort of confirming evidence for that, it’s just speculation on his part. [Danny Jones, 15:16] Yeah. [Danny Jones, 15:17] And then when he, so he claimed in 2000 that he, they were like telepathically communicating with him. [UAP Gerb, 15:23] Yeah. [Danny Jones, 15:24] That’s wild. [UAP Gerb, 15:25] But what’s interesting too, he talks about, he talked about like a three, four-fingered arm hanging out of the craft, right? [Danny Jones, 15:29] Right, yeah. [UAP Gerb, 15:30] Greer edited that out of of of Weygandt’s interview. [Danny Jones, 15:34] Why do you think that is? [UAP Gerb, 15:35] I have no idea. Cuz Greer likes to speak about, kind of, love and light communication and these beings were very friendly to Jonathan, asking for help, saying everything’s going to be okay, so I don’t know. In that same interview, Greer also cut out, um, James Fox asking Jonathan questions. [Danny Jones, 15:50] Hm. [UAP Gerb, 15:50] Now, why was that? I I don’t know. I don’t know why Greer would cut it out but, you know, maybe… [Danny Jones, 15:54] Maybe he didn’t want to, maybe he thought like the descriptions of fingers and like some weird alien arm hanging out would make it more unbelievable, and he wanted to kind of leave the stuff in there that was more plausible. [UAP Gerb, 16:05] Yeah, but with the stories of crash retrieval, there’s always the baggage of biologics. [UAP Gerb, 16:09] Right, some there’s and on so many cases with crash retrievals, there’s stories of biologics, and I think that for a lot of people is a big, big stretch to kind of wrap their head around. Cuz it’s one thing to think that non-human spacecraft, maybe from another planet, maybe from a different existence, maybe future humans, like Dr. Mike Masters likes to kind of hypothesize on is crashing here. Whole another subject to think that there are beings in here and what those could be, their possible morphologies and so forth. [Danny Jones, 16:34] Yeah. [Danny Jones, 16:34] I’m sure you’ve heard, I’m sure you’ve heard the story of Annie Jacobsen’s description of Area 51, the guy she talks to from EG&G. [UAP Gerb, 16:39] Oh, yeah. [Danny Jones, 16:40] What do you make of that? [UAP Gerb, 16:42] So, George Knapp, I’m trying to think about that guy’s name. It’s slipping me right now. [Danny Jones, 16:47] She only released it like last year, I think, after she dropped her book. She kept it secret in the book. But she released his name, cuz I think he’s dead now. [UAP Gerb, 16:55] Yes. [UAP Gerb, 16:56] So, I’m trying to think and, I’m trying to think what the name is, but this was a source of George Knapp’s 10, 20 years before that. [UAP Gerb, 17:03] The guy who worked at EG&G at Area 51, head of special projects. [Danny Jones, 17:06] Okay. [UAP Gerb, 17:06] This guy told George Knapp, told George Knapp, and you can look at it in a Weaponized interview, with him and Jeremy Corbell. I’ll send you the link because… [Danny Jones, 17:13] I remember seeing this. [UAP Gerb, 17:15] He said that that director of special programs at EG&G told George Knapp that there were beings and craft held at Area 51. And told Annie Jacobsen something completely different. [Danny Jones, 17:24] Why would he do that? [Danny Jones, 17:26] That’s strange. [UAP Gerb, 17:30] Isn’t that interesting? [Danny Jones, 17:31] Because Annie’s description is very, it’s so detailed. Because she’s with the family and him, and apparently he told his family this for the first time and they were like really upset about it. [UAP Gerb, 17:43] Mhm. [Danny Jones, 17:44] Like how do you make that, I mean, yeah, I don’t know, I don’t know what to think about that. [UAP Gerb, 17:49] Especially cuz in that Weaponized interview, George Knapp was a little bit hot under the collar. Cuz he said like, “Hey, I I’m I gosh, I’m trying to remember this guy’s name.” [Danny Jones, 17:59] Steve, maybe you can find it. [UAP Gerb, 18:00] He he says that this EG&G… [Danny Jones, 18:03] Type in Annie Jacobsen EG&G source. [Danny Jones, 18:10] Yeah, basically what, what basically what this guy told Annie. And this was way after he talked to George Knapp, obviously. [Danny Jones, 18:16] Or was it? Cuz it was… [UAP Gerb, 18:17] Yeah, it was like 10 years after. [Danny Jones, 18:18] It was 10 years after, okay. [Danny Jones, 18:20] Basically what he told Annie is that it was a Russian drone that was flown here, for… [UAP Gerb, 18:25] By disfigured people, right? [Danny Jones, 18:27] By disfigured people, by Mengele, the Nazi guy, and disfigured children, basically, to make them look like aliens. And they crashed, it crashed, whether on purpose or not. And, Annie was like, “Well, why wouldn’t you expose…” [UAP Gerb, 18:39] Alfred O’Donnell! Alfred O’Donnell! [Danny Jones, 18:42] So she asked him, she goes, “Well, that’s fucked up, why wouldn’t, why would the US government keep this secret, because this makes the Soviets or Russia look terrible?” And he said the reason they didn’t expose it is because EG&G started doing the same exact thing with children. [UAP Gerb, 18:56] See, that’s, that’s interesting that that’s said, because… [Danny Jones, 18:59] And she said his whole family was there listening to this, and they were like, “What, why did you keep this from us? That’s just terrible.” [UAP Gerb, 19:04] That’s also something that was parroted by Rick Doty. [UAP Gerb, 19:08] Air Force… [Danny Jones, 19:09] He said the same thing? [UAP Gerb, 19:10] OSI officer, yeah, and in Greer’s, I think it was his 2017 documentary Unacknowledged. That was the first time I ever heard of Roswell specifically being like disfigured people sent from Russia. Which, I don’t know, it’s interesting that Alfred O’Donnell, on one hand, told George Knapp that there are non-human beings and craft under Area 51, and told Annie Jacobsen that this was a Russian experiment. Regardless of outside Annie Jacobsen and George Knapp, there’s plenty about Area 51 specifically and, of course, EG&G, that’s well worth investigation, and as well as that kind of dives into the subject of of contractors with UFO technology, UFO materials, UFO bodies. It’s a, it’s a pretty deep rabbit hole that there’s a lot to outside of just Alfred O’Donnell, cuz that’s so weird he tells Knapp one thing and and Jacobsen another. [Danny Jones, 19:57] Yeah, it is weird. And it makes me… [Danny Jones, 20:00] It makes me wonder if if what he told Annie was more at closer to the truth because he was older, a lot older, closer to his death, and his family was there and he told his family, and they were visibly upset according to Annie. Unless Annie is making it up, which I doubt she is. [UAP Gerb, 20:15] I doubt she is either. Annie seems pretty respectful, I know she disagrees a lot with some of the more UFO stuff. But doesn’t she also she also is a proprietor that Area 51 S4 is correct is real, right? [Danny Jones, 20:28] Yes. [UAP Gerb, 20:29] Like, I think she has put forward a, a badge of somebody who worked at Site 4. [Danny Jones, 20:32] Oh, I don’t know about that. I don’t know about that. [UAP Gerb, 20:34] And of course, Site 4 is what Bob Lazar said he worked at, S4, Model 4. S4 is, S4 is really interesting. It’s like the auxiliary site below Groom Lake, it’s just south of Groom Lake Area 51. And then you have Tonopah, just northwest. [Danny Jones, 20:47] Yeah. Yeah, the S4 stuff is crazy, man. I don’t know. I don’t think I don’t remember if she talked about S4 in the, in the Area 51 book or not, but it’s really interesting, some of the stuff they were they were doing at Area 51 right after World War II. And you know, she explains how the money was stolen, I think it was Dulles stole a bunch of money from the reconstruction in Europe fund to build Area 51. And they were doing all kinds of crazy CIA test flights, and building, you know, building the those Blackbirds, those, and the U-2 and all that stuff there. But, I don’t know. I don’t know, like do you think that Area 51 is still being utilized for this kind of stuff? [UAP Gerb, 21:30] Probably. And I also think that there’s probably underground facilities beneath Area 51. Specifically, maybe a facility built into the pre-existing boron mine there. And that could be considered a, a deep underground military base. So, I made a video on, there was this, whistleblower who went really quiet. He was a lieutenant colonel at Edwards Air Force Base out of the 412th Test Wing. [Danny Jones, 21:51] Mm-hmm. [UAP Gerb, 21:52] The Edwards 412th Test Wing is what’s called a major range test facility base, an MRTFB. There’s just over 20 in the continental United States. These include things like Dugway Proving Ground, the Utah Test and Training Range, Fort Huachuca, Edwards 412th, China Lake, Pax River, and your favorite that you talked about with Dolan, AUTEC, the Atlantic Undersea Test and Evaluation Command. [Danny Jones, 22:15] Right. [UAP Gerb, 22:16] These operate between Navy, Air Force, Army, and Defense Organization, right? So, Edwards 412th is a MRTFB, and this individual, I call him Ed, just because I don’t want to burn his real name. Ed claimed that he worked as an electronics warfare test director at Edwards Air Force Base at the 412th, testing reverse-engineered vehicles, reverse-engineered ARV, alien reproduction vehicles, whatever you want to call them. And that he was initially stationed at Nellis Air Force Base where he operated under Nellis between Edwards, at Area 51, and S4. And the thing is, this, I hope this guy goes public sometime, because I’ve tried to track him down with every avenue. I have his name, I have his number, I have called him, he’s blocked me, I’ve emailed him, he’s blocked me, I’ve texted him, he’s blocked me. Heck, I’ve even added him on Snapchat. And funny enough, that’s the one place where he’s ever like read my message and not blocked me. Snapchat! And he’s a grown man. And his, his official records do, of course, say he was at Area 51, that he was at Nellis Air Force Base, that he was at Edwards. And so this guy claims that he worked on, serving as a test director on reverse-engineered vehicles, kind of operating as the middleman between scientists and ARV pilots. [Danny Jones, 23:29] Mm. [UAP Gerb, 23:30] And so, I think that that existing program, which he said existed between Area 51, S4, and Edwards, is likely still going on today. But, of course, that’s a, that’s a pretty, that’s a topic that requires a lot of, kind of, I guess credibility in UFO crash retrievals to think about ARV, alien reproduction vehicles and kind of reverse-engineered vehicles. What, what do you think about that? I know you’ve talked to, to Jesse a little bit, kind of on your stance about UFO. Where do you, where do you stand specifically on copycat vehicles, so to speak? [Danny Jones, 24:02] I don’t know. I have no idea. Like, you’re saying, you’re saying like, what do I think about us being able to recreate a, a UFO? [UAP Gerb, 24:09] Yeah. [Danny Jones, 24:10] Like the Tic Tac type stuff? [UAP Gerb, 24:11] Tic Tac, triangles, saucers. [Danny Jones, 24:15] I don’t know, I think, I think it’s a mix of shit, probably. Right? I think like the Tic Tac was likely something that we have, that we created, you know, maybe some Black Aerospace or like Lockheed or something like that, some sort of like Black technology that nobody knows about. Maybe that’s part of the $21 trillion that’s missing that, that Catherine was talking about… [UAP Gerb, 24:30] Yeah. [Danny Jones, 24:31] …that could have created the Tic Tacs or something like that. I don’t think it was like foreign military. I think it was probably us testing our own stuff on those jets that had just gotten their radar upgraded. Now, you know, what Dolan was explaining to me is that there’s documented accounts of these underwater UFOs coming out of the ocean in like 1717, which is crazy. And, and since talking to him, it’s, you know, it’s apparent that there is just a mixed bag of shit here. Like is it something that’s been here for, for millions of years that lives under the water? Is it, it’s probably also us that we probably recreated shit that we found? And then additionally, what me and Jesse were talking about is like he was explaining how all this anti-gravity research went dark in the ’50s, and just, and just went nowhere, and then string theory came about. So like, that probably has something to do with it, the Townsend Brown stuff. You know, there’s, there’s, there’s so many pieces to this puzzle, it’s crazy. [UAP Gerb, 25:43] Well, I know you and, Dolan were talking about the subject of USO. And I know you guys brought up the underwater NRO. [Danny Jones, 25:50] Yeah. [UAP Gerb, 25:50] Because you didn’t dive too much into it. So, that’s, that’s something we, I’d love to talk about, because it’s so intriguing. And it also involves a, pretty interesting, two really interesting crash retrieval stories. [Danny Jones, 25:59] So, how come I’ve never heard of the underwater, is it classified or is it… [UAP Gerb, 26:02] Oh, yeah. [Visual, 26:04] Danny Jones speaking to the camera in a white t-shirt and backward black cap against a purple background. [Danny Jones, 26:04] Hey guys, if you’re not already subscribed, please hammer the subscribe button below and hit the like button on the video. Back to the show. [Visual, 26:09] Camera cuts back to the podcast studio with Danny Jones and UAP Gerb. [Danny Jones, 26:09] So, it’s not, there’s no website for the underwater NRO? [UAP Gerb, 26:12] No, there’s no… [Danny Jones, 26:13] Because you would think they could make an excuse for it. They could say, ‘Oh, yeah, we’re just trying to monitor nuclear submarines,’ you know, ‘adversary submarines.’ [UAP Gerb, 26:19] So, there is a Wikipedia page that’s crap, that calls it the hidden younger brother of the NRO. So, in US intelligence, you have the big five agencies: the CIA, NSA, DIA, NRO, and NGA. And then there’s the hidden NURO, the National Underwater Reconnaissance Office, whose activities are seemingly more sensitive than even the NRO’s. There are admirals in the Navy that I have spoken to who did not know that NURO was a thing. [Danny Jones, 26:45] Really? [UAP Gerb, 26:46] And so I sent them a little bit of stuff on NURO, and they went, ‘Oh.’ So, there’s a couple, there’s a couple books, such as the, The Intelligence Community by Jeffrey T. Richelson, great book, I really recommend everybody read that, and some other sources that can really dive in to learn a bit more about NURO, as well as former admiral, Director of Naval Intelligence, CIA Deputy Director, NSA Director, Bobby Ray Inman. Bobby Ray Inman in a, I think it was 2018, finally admitted in a speech at some university in 2018 that he directed NURO. But he still couldn’t talk about it to this day. Which is interesting, he said when he became Director of Naval Intelligence, he wore another hat that was NURO, but they still didn’t want him to talk about it. And in another interview for a university, I think this was some California university, he said that he had gotten in trouble before for talking about NURO. So, NURO was started in 1969. And it was started to kind of coordinate the Navy’s and the CIA’s reconnaissance activities, similar to the how the NRO was started to coordinate the Air Force’s and the CIA’s activities, right? And so, part of the, the founding programs for NURO were to kind of coordinate operations, keep track of, and commence missions with some of our sensitive nuclear submarines, kind of tap undersea cables. I think this was called the Ivy Bells program. And as well as just underwater reconnaissance, underwater monitoring. The NURO was supposed to exist between the Navy and CIA’s Directorate of Science and Technology. Now, that Directorate of Science and Technology, we can talk a lot more about that because that has some tremendous connections to UFO crash retrievals. But really early on, the CIA just kind of took command of NURO, and it wasn’t until 1972, three years after its creation, that John Warner, Secretary of the Navy, was finally put as NURO director. But then it changed hands back a little bit because in ‘74 Bobby Ray Inman became director of NURO and, of course, he went on to be a CIA spook. So, NURO’s kind of claim to fame is using vessels like the USS Halibut, USS Seawolf, the USS Jimmy Carter, the NR-1, the United States’ smallest nuclear submarine, and the Glomar Explorer. Have you heard of the Glomar Explorer? [Danny Jones, 29:01] Oh, yeah. [UAP Gerb, 29:02] Yeah, so, so K-129, Soviet sub, crashes near Hawaii, a little bit northwest. The CIA and NURO create the Glomar Explorer to go retrieve the vessel, and I think it embarks in 1972, right? And conventional wisdom, only a third of the K-129 is retrieved, maybe more, probably more, and it might be buried up in the Pacific Northwest. But then the Glomar went on to be used by Lockheed Martin and its subsidiaries for 20 years for, quote unquote, ‘deep sea mining operations’ and such. So, the, the really, really, really interesting kind of connections with NURO come with chief scientist of special projects for the Navy, John P. Craven. And so in 1964, John P. Craven was set to start the Deep Systems, or Deep Submergence Systems Project, the DSSP. And I’m sorry, there’s a ton of acronyms, I’ll try to spell them all out. That’s what I get flack for. [UAP Gerb, 30:00] …or lot. And this was to drastically increase the Navy’s, uh, deep ocean engineering capabilities. And so the DSSP gave Craven the task, we need you to be able to commence engineering and Navy operations at way bigger depths. So 1964, Craven starts the DSSP. In 1965, Craven receives a classified briefing of something called Project Sand Dollar. Sand Dollar is [Danny Jones, 30:25] Oh, yeah. [UAP Gerb, 30:26] the earliest probably SAP within SAP within SAP we can kind of make sense of. It was a program that was hidden within a program, hidden within another program, hidden within the Polaris sub- Polaris submarine missile program, which was oddly enough spearheaded by Admiral Raborn, who went on to go work at SAIC, but we can talk about that later. [Danny Jones, 30:43] Hm. [UAP Gerb, 30:44] But this program was highly classified and an itemized inventory of a collection of objects on the sea floor for national security importance, uh, ranging from the Atlantic, just all around the world, and it wasn’t just aircraft or or nuclear stuff. [Danny Jones, 31:00] Mhm. [UAP Gerb, 31:00] So, commencing after that briefing in 1965 on Sand Dollar, Craven, under the DSSP, the Deep System Submergence Projects, creates the DSRV, Deep Submergence Rescue Vehicle, and DSSV, Deep Submergence Search Vehicle. And these are supposed to be, uh, vehicles that kind of can satisfy the DSSP. So, the DSRV, the Deep Submergence Rescue Vehicle, is supposed to be basically a submarine rescue vehicle. Uh, this was out of response to the loss of the USS Thresher. And this would be something that a submarine team can get in a small little submarine that can be transported anywhere around the world in 72 hours. [Danny Jones, 31:38] Wow. [UAP Gerb, 31:39] It’s that rapid reaction. It can be piggybacked on on a vessel, specifically Craven says in The Silent War, his memoirs, the USS Halibut and the USS Seawolf, two Neuro vessels that he directly names, to rescue any submarine crew anywhere in the world, la-di-la-di-da. And the DSSV, which is used for ocean surveying, uh, ocean engineering, retrieval operations, and so forth. Uh, there were supposed to be six DSRV and six DSSV, the two submersible units built. But only two DSRVs were ever built, the Mystic and Avalon out of Lockheed Martin. So, there were only two of those ever built. [UAP Gerb, 32:16] However, that brings me to a, um, a really interesting crash retrieval story. So, in, you know the Art Bell show, right? [Danny Jones, 32:24] Yes. [UAP Gerb, 32:26] So in 2002, I think it was about summer of 2002, a a caller came on air and said, “Hello, my name is Mark. I was a former Marine diver that went on to go work on a DSRV crew.” [UAP Gerb, 32:39] And so this guy tells the story of in 1991 or 1992, I’m getting the dates a little bit wrong, [Danny Jones, 32:44] Mhm. [UAP Gerb, 32:45] there was a survey ship in the North Atlantic, about 250 miles outside of Aberdeen, Scotland, that picked up radiological signatures on the sea floor. And that the DSRV was dispatched to go check this thing out. And so the the crew steamed out to the North Atlantic. I think this is in the Rockall Rockall Trough in the North Atlantic, just northwest of Aberdeen, Scotland, because I looked at like depths, and this guy said this was about a mile and a half deep, Mark did. And so the team dives… [Danny Jones, 33:13] So so where specifically would it be again? [UAP Gerb, 33:15] The Rockall Trough. [Danny Jones, 33:16] The Rockall Trough. [UAP Gerb, 33:18] Yes, Rockall— [Danny Jones, 33:18] Pull up a map of that if you can, Steve. [UAP Gerb, 33:22] So the team dives in the DSRV, [Danny Jones, 33:24] Uh-huh. [UAP Gerb, 33:25] which could also be a DSSV, a Deep System Search Vehicle, one of the two, because Craven said that, John P. Craven, remember chief scientist of Special Projects of the Navy, that although there were never official missions, uh, for DSRV or DSSV, because no submarines ever sunk after the Thresher, these were sent on numerous clandestine operations. [Danny Jones, 33:45] Wow. [UAP Gerb, 33:45] If it might be, uh, a Google Earth search might be a little bit better. [Danny Jones, 33:48] Well, you had it, but then you lost it. There you go. [UAP Gerb, 33:51] Rock- Rockall? [Visual, 33:51] Google Maps screen showing search results for “Rockall Trough” with picture-in-picture of the podcast studio [Danny Jones, 33:53] Yeah. [Danny Jones, 33:54] Hit layers on the bottom left. [Danny Jones, 33:58] Zoom in on that. Oh, shit. Look at that. [UAP Gerb, 34:00] Yeah, so this was about a mile and a half deep, so we need over 8,000 feet uh sea sea floor. [Danny Jones, 34:08] Wow. [UAP Gerb, 34:12] And so Mark and his crew are steamed out from Virginia. My guess is this is a really clandestine DSSV, because the DSSV have operational depths of 20,000 feet, but were apparently never built, but used according to Craven for clandestine purposes to this region. The team dives, by the time they get to the sea floor, they see a large triangle wedged in the sea floor. The triangle has no cockpit, no visible means of propulsion, it’s wedged in the sea floor, and around its circumference has glyphic writing. Same thing as the 1965 Kecksburg, uh, Pennsylvania crash, same thing as the Roswell I-beam, same thing as what Danny Sheehan has said he found in the classified Blue Book files. And so there’s a a really anomalous triangle down here that there’s no visible means of propulsion, nothing they can see. So the team goes back up, informs the the steam ship what they saw. Uh, a marine archaeologist is brought down, they go take photos, videos, and survey the vessel. The marine archaeologist estimates that that triangle had been buried within the the kind of the sea floor for 30 or 40 years. And so eventually the team is tasked with rigging uh materials to the craft to try to bring it up. [Danny Jones, 35:23] Mhm. [UAP Gerb, 35:23] And because the size is about 70 feet in height, the team estimates this is about the weight of an F-14, right? And an F-14’s interesting because the NR-1 had previously recovered a lost uh F-14 off a US aircraft carrier. But so the the object is rigged up, uh, you know, the crew makes estimates based off the the size, what metal might be, you know, involved, brushed aluminum and so forth, but this object rises about three or four times faster once buoyancy is attached to it and it’s kind of brought up to the ocean surface. The craft is eventually rigged up, Mark, once the DSRV crew is back on board, gets to see the craft again, this time in person, about 70 feet long, a little bit rounded of a back, like a perfect triangle, glyphic writing along the side, like gunmetal color, no visible means of propulsion, no lights, and eventually he and his crew are steamed off ship, never given another word about this, not told to sign any NDAs or anything, which is kind of interesting, but apparently the work they did was inherently classified because the DSRV and the DSSV was used for classified operations under Neuro. [Danny Jones, 36:21] Hm. [Danny Jones, 36:22] That’s fucking wild, bro. [UAP Gerb, 36:24] And so, yeah, it’s a really interesting story, and it just went on Art Bell once. And I’m trying to track this down, because Mark uh drew sketches of this for Art Bell, and he also provided Art Bell the names of the other Navy guys he was with. So I want to track these guys down and find out more about the story. [Danny Jones, 36:40] Have you tried reaching out? [UAP Gerb, 36:42] Yeah, I I know a guy who used to work for Art Bell and I’m trying, no luck because Art Bell has passed. [Danny Jones, 36:46] Mhm. [UAP Gerb, 36:47] But gosh, would that be, would that be something to to get after. [Danny Jones, 36:51] Yeah, I wonder how many more stories there are like that of retrieving stuff under the oceans, you know, because you don’t really hear about that kind of stuff. [UAP Gerb, 36:58] No. There’s 1967 Shag Harbour of course, which occurred in Canada. But here’s a real treat. In uh 1972, there was an encounter of a man who worked as a gunnery instructor at Great Lakes Naval Station near Chicago. This guy, I think he went by the pseudonym RK, related his story to Leonard Stringfield. Uh, Leonard Stringfield is one of the greatest UFO crash retrieval investigators of all time, wrote uh status reports one through seven on UFO crash retrievals. RK claimed that in ‘72 at the Great Lakes Naval Station in Chicago, he was tasked to kind of deliver orders, deliver a message to, you know, a commanding officer. So, as he goes to deliver to the commanding officer, officer, he passes into a Quonset-style hut hut on the premises. And in there is a large metallic teardrop-shaped craft. No visible means of propulsion, looks like a teardrop, looks like a perfect mix between a teardrop and an egg, very smooth, one color, and so forth. But here’s what’s interesting. He he then meets a guy that was stationed in San Diego in the Navy, and the Navy guy said that he knew about that craft that was brought down, and that it was brought down by a naval destroyer and recovered by the Glomar Explorer north of Hawaii in 1972. [Danny Jones, 38:11] Wow. [Danny Jones, 38:12] I mean, we’ve explored more of the Moon than we have of our own ocean floors, it’s crazy. And if you look at, we were talking about this with Richard Dolan too, like you can literally turn the globe, if you look at the Pacific Ocean, you can see there’s there’s a no fucking land. [UAP Gerb, 38:23] Yeah. [Danny Jones, 38:24] It covers up more… [UAP Gerb, 38:25] It’s huge. [Danny Jones, 38:26] It’s like a a massive, a massive amount of this Earth is ocean. [UAP Gerb, 38:29] So, what’s interesting about the the creation of Neuro, the Deep Submergence Systems Project and all this in 1964, it seems like Sand Dollar had existed previously with an itemized inventory of everything that existed on the sea floor of national security interest. But until Craven created the the DSSP, following Sand Dollar, and then Neuro was created, there was no way the Navy could retrieve these items. So, it seemed like the US Navy had a large itemized inventory of all of these objects on the sea floor, but until Craven drastically increased the depths at which the Navy could conduct engineering operations and retrieval operations, those just sat there. [Danny Jones, 39:06] Now, what do you know about the, that base in the Bahamas that me and Jesse was talking about? [UAP Gerb, 39:12] Oh, AUTEC? [Danny Jones, 39:14] AUTEC, yeah. Is that still, is that thing still operational? Are they still doing work there? [UAP Gerb, 39:17] I, I’m not sure actually, but that brings up the the point of like underwater bases, right? [Danny Jones, 39:22] Yeah. [UAP Gerb, 39:23] There’s a, there’s a great author, his name’s Richard Sauder. He has a book called Underground and Undersea Bases where he talks about possible undersea bases worldwide, which is really interesting. And of course, there’s, it’s it’s very likely that there are like undersea Neuro bases for submarine refueling and such, but… [Danny Jones, 39:40] Ooh. [UAP Gerb, 39:42] I mean, the the concept of undersea bases is interesting, because already underground bases is is incredibly… [Danny Jones, 39:47] Right. [Danny Jones, 39:48] The question about undersea bases is, how do you power them? [UAP Gerb, 39:51] The logistics sound like a nightmare. [Danny Jones, 39:54] Yeah. [Danny Jones, 39:55] It seems like optimal though, right? [UAP Gerb, 39:57] Yeah. For cooling, especially if you have some sort of… [Danny Jones, 39:59] Mhm. [UAP Gerb, 39:59] uh… [Visual, 40:00] Danny Jones and guest UAP Gerb in a podcast studio with a UFO graphic on the wall behind Danny Jones. [UAP Gerb, 40:00] high temperature reactor, I mean. Right. In the 1960s the US Army Corps of Engineer published a bunch of deep basing studies on where to place deep underground military bases throughout the continental United States. But also published a ton of papers such as like self-contained nuclear reactors to power stiff, subterranean facilities and so forth. [Danny Jones, 40:17] Wow. [Danny Jones, 40:19] Yeah, that’s one of the things that Catherine was saying that a lot of the missing money she thinks has been going to funding these constructions of these underground bases. [UAP Gerb, 40:26] Yeah. That’s, I think, one of the most interesting topics in this subject because, you know, I’ve done a project on directly relating those to UFO programs and craft and materials being stored underground. And I have a friend who was former Army Public Affairs, this was about 2010 to 2013 area, and he relayed to me that he traveled between a stiff, a subterranean facility as they call them, under Fort Bliss, Texas, and White Sands Missile Range. And he traveled between these locations via train. [Danny Jones, 40:57] What? [UAP Gerb, 40:58] And he said that the train went so fast, it reminded him of his fear of flying. [Danny Jones, 41:02] Oh my god. [UAP Gerb, 41:04] Because a lot of people will look at the kind of underground bases system and connective tunnels and scoff at it a little bit, because it’s a logistic and engineering nightmare, right? But, you know, I digress. Back in the 1970s, the RAND Corporation, which is known as a federally funded research and development center, FFRDC, one of the employees, high-up scientists of the RAND Corporation published something called the VHST, the Very High Speed Transit System, which was a massive underground train system that would connect New York to Los Angeles and basically be a massive underground tunnel system. And, of course, if these tunnel systems exist, I think it’s highly likely we got some of that technology and ideas from the Nazis. Yeah. You know, before before the end of World War II, there was there was a system called the Rohr bahn by some German scientists, which was a pneumatic train system to exist under Germany and to connect Berlin to France or Paris and a network of underground train systems to go at incredible speeds. [Danny Jones, 42:01] This was a concept? [UAP Gerb, 42:03] Yeah. But here’s what’s not a concept that’s really interesting. So Xavier Dorsch was head of the Todt Organization in Nazi Germany. The Todt Organization had created the Autobahn, you know, that famous German highway with endless speeds. And at this time, Hans Kammler and various really nasty Nazi scientists were using underground locations for aircraft manufacturing and so forth for contractors, but as well as continuity of government sites such as the Regenwurmlager in Poland and Ohrdruf, which are these really really crazy advanced underground locations that, I think it was Ohrdruf even had like its own underground rail system connecting it, it was self-contained. And so Xavier Dorsch was one of these whiz kid engineers for the Todt Organization, which is similar to the US Army Corps of Engineers. In 1947, with Operation Paperclip, where the US brought over a bunch of Nazi scientists, there was one report from Air Materiel Command that requested Xavier Dorsch specifically, as well as three other German Nazi technicians for underground plant construction. So I think immediately post-World War II is when underground or stiff facilities, or stiffs, immediately began construction, because we plucked some of the Nazis’ best and brightest who had created such intricate structures under Germany to come work for us. [Danny Jones, 43:19] Yeah. And if that stuff does exist, if they are spending money on all this crazy stuff and, you know, they have all these secret programs to recover crafts and to build underground highways and and bunkers, that would explain where a lot of that money is going that Catherine Fitts was talking about, those trillions of dollars. [UAP Gerb, 43:36] It’s not cheap, right? [Danny Jones, 43:37] No, it’s definitely not cheap. And, you know, the other question is, who who’s in charge of it? [UAP Gerb, 43:43] Yeah. [Danny Jones, 43:44] Who has control over all of it? [UAP Gerb, 43:45] You know, analyzing the structure of the supposed UFO legacy programs is so difficult to track. Right, you know, if there are programs, which of course I believe very strongly there are, that there are DOD contractor, FFRDC, UARC, University Affiliated Research Center programs that deal with the exploitation, recovery, and reverse engineering of non-human technologies, how are these programs structured? What sort of communication is done across the programs? How are the intelligence communities involved, and at the top of this, who is who is pulling the strings? Because it’s not like this is a above-board Air Force project, above-board Navy project, not like a CIA project. All of this is inherently born within SAPs and USAPs, unacknowledged special oper… special access programs, sorry, which Congress and even the executive branch to a certain degree doesn’t need to be read in, you have to have a need to know to access these things. [Danny Jones, 44:33] Right. Yeah, that’s what Steven Greer was explaining to me. He was like he was explaining to me how like these tops top Joint Chiefs of Staff people can’t even get access to some of this stuff. And it’s and and the way he was describing it to me is like imagine if Lockheed or one of these companies like this got so much technology that advanced so much after getting all this black budget that they’ve basically gone off the rails so far to where they have more power than like every foreign and domestic military combined. To where they’re kind of like a like a like a breakaway military superpower that like doesn’t have to answer to anybody. [UAP Gerb, 45:13] If like Catherine Austin Fitts says, if there is a some sort of segment existing within US military intelligence that has a secret space program, they are have the asymmetric advantage in every single warfighter capability. If somebody has ARVs, Alien Reproduction Vehicles, which I believe they do, of course, they have a tremendous amount of advantages over any traditional human military. I mean, this is something David Grusch has talked about as well in his NewsNation… [Danny Jones, 45:39] Did you see, sorry to interrupt, did you see Elon’s tweet today? [UAP Gerb, 45:42] No, what did he tweet? [Danny Jones, 45:43] It might have been today or yesterday. But it was Steven, can you pull pull it up to… I’m going to I might get it wrong, but he said something to the effect of like ‘when shit hits the fan, at least we have space ships’ or something like this. [UAP Gerb, 45:54] Yeah, but what’s Elon on about, right? He was on Joe Rogan, and he told Joe Rogan he knows there’s no aliens because he has an all-access pass to DOD programs. That’s nonsense. An all-access pass to special access program, unacknowledged special access program, excluded program material, noforn classification, special access required classification, absolute nonsense. You have to have a need to know to read into these programs. What you were talking about with Greer and some of these Joint Chiefs not being accessed, he’s talking about Thomas Wilson from the Wilson-Davis memo, who was Deputy Director of the DIA at the time, I believe. And he tried to gain access to some of these programs and was stonewalled by the Special Access Program Oversight Committee Senior Review Group. [Danny Jones, 46:34] So Elon would definitely not have access. [UAP Gerb, 46:37] No, absolutely. Unless he has a specific need to know for specific programs. Like, let’s say that some of his Starlink satellites are interfering with the NRO’s AI Sentient program, right? That, you know, there’s some FOIA documents in 2023 show that the NRO Sentient program had monitored Tic Tacs over redacted locations. Then Elon might be tangentially briefed on some aspects of that program. But no, unless he has a need to know, there will be no no read-in to these programs, that’s just that’s just nonsense. [Danny Jones, 47:05] Yeah. I mean, he’s launching all those freaking rockets and satellites into space, you would imagine that he’s got some sort of peripheral knowledge of something. Even if he does even if he hasn’t been read in, like he’s surrounded by these people, and he’s surrounded by that guy Tim, who was in the book, who, you know, who was like super esoteric in all this stuff and super into all this stuff, visited Chris Bledsoe and all these people. And if that guy’s working for him and talking to him, like how how is it possible that he’s not has serious conversations about it, whether it be like a a full read-in or not, you know? [UAP Gerb, 47:39] I’d wager it’s probably high probability he is read in on the UFO reality, right? I mean… [Danny Jones, 47:44] It seems like, like here’s the thing. It’s very suspicious that he just writes it off and dismisses it like that. [UAP Gerb, 47:50] Or jokes about it saying, ‘oh, I’m an alien’ or something like that. Our good mutual friend Jesse Michels was just on Joe Rogan, and they, Joe and Jesse, both said, ‘no, I I think Elon’s BSing a little bit about that.’ Because it’s the world of special access program, controlled access program, special access required, USAPs. And that stuff gets into some real, real, real strict access. I mean, the Wilson Davis memo is a perfect example. This talks about, this recounts a conversation between Admiral Thomas Wilson and Eric Davis in 2002 in the parking lot of EG&G in Nevada. And this hearkens back to 1997, where Steven Greer, Brigadier General Steven Lovekin, Commander Will Miller of the US Navy, and astronaut Edgar Mitchell engaged in briefings with Admiral Thomas Wilson, which actually did happen. Like, this even Wilson agrees that this happened, even though he disputes the memo. That they briefed Wilson into the reality of UFO special access programs. And Wilson went, according to the documents, according to the Wilson Davis memo, Wilson went on a big hunt to try to find these special access programs that were working on UFOs. And what he found was that these programs were gatekept by the Special Access Program Oversight Committee Senior Review Group. And this was set up in 1993, 1994, after a near audit almost exposed some of these programs. But what’s really interesting about that is one of the contractors that I think are up to their eyeballs in UFO legacy program operations is Northrop Grumman, creator of the B-2, creator of the B-21 Spirit bomber. They in 2003 absorbed a company called TRW. TRW, the great Richard Dolan theorizes TRW is the contractor behind Zodiac, which was possibly a roman à clef, a fictional story posted by pseudonym Sejmasters about a UFO crash retrieval team. TRW also bought up BDM. BDM is, of course, a company that US Army General of INSCOM Albert Stubblebine, who is really interesting as well, went on to go work for in 1985. But TRW in 1993 or 1994, right around the time SAPOC was reorganized to structure the Senior Review Group to gate [UAP Gerb, 50:00] key legacy programs, was sued for a hundred— owed the US government 111 million dollars for or overcharging on space programs. And so one can’t help but to think that this— there might be connections here, because Northrop Grumman purchases TRW in 2002, 2003, and immediately pays off that lawsuit for them. [Danny Jones, 50:20] Hm. [UAP Gerb, 50:21] Which is really interesting. And also there’s some General Accounting Office documents in 1993 that talk about the Navy and the Air Force specifically not complying with SAP regulations. They talk about the Army complying with SAP regulations, and that’s really interesting because as as far as I know from just people I’ve talked to and in conversations I’ve had, the the Army participates in a lot of research, development, testing, and evaluation of non-human technology, but does it in a very streamlined fashion, with contracts, with generals overseeing it, and so forth. [Danny Jones, 50:53] And it’s not super classified, you’re saying? [UAP Gerb, 50:56] No, it’s very classified, but it has probably more oversight than something like NRO, something like Air Force, something like Ed— if he’s really testing reverse-engineered triangles out there at Edwards Air Force Base. [Danny Jones, 51:08] Right, right. [Danny Jones, 51:10] Yeah. And another thing we, I think we glossed over in the beginning, which I just remembered, was during Jonathan… when Jonathan was sent out to go see that crash, that craft in Peru… wasn’t there reports of something flying in and out of the atmosphere at super high speeds? [UAP Gerb, 51:26] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And that’s really interesting because Jonathan said he heard Air Force personnel talking about craft entering and exiting Earth’s atmosphere at like Mach 10-plus. [Danny Jones, 51:37] Yeah. [UAP Gerb, 51:38] But that’s also there’s really intriguing connections there, because we also talked about the DSP, the Defense Support Program, working with NEST later in 1997 to monitor Russian space debris over South America and Peru. Well, you know, you remember WikiLeaks, right? [Danny Jones, 51:54] Yeah. [UAP Gerb, 51:55] So, in WikiLeaks, there was Hillary Clinton campaign manager John Podesta. [Danny Jones, 52:00] Oh, yeah. [UAP Gerb, 52:01] And John Podesta had email exchanges with former DoD contractor Bob Fish. [Danny Jones, 52:04] Yes. [UAP Gerb, 52:05] And in these emails, Bob Fish is talking about how the DSP was one of the high-profile programs that track UFOs. And there’s old, old stories, I think this is in the 80s, of DSP satellites monitoring UFOs that pass within a mile and a half at 22,000 miles per hour of the satellite. So, were these USAF personnel working with the DSP, and were they specifically tracking UFOs? Was there some part of Laser Strike that knew there was UFO activity and tracking this stuff? I mean, 22,000 miles per hour is absolutely bananas. [Danny Jones, 52:36] Yeah, especially in the, in like the 90s. [UAP Gerb, 52:39] Yeah, and especially making what seems to be intelligent maneuvers. [Danny Jones, 52:44] Mm. [UAP Gerb, 52:45] Cuz this, who knows if that’s the case, but all Weygandt knows is that he was, he and the other grunts were just kind of set set out to uncover what seemed to be a crashed friendly or foreign aircraft. [Danny Jones, 52:59] Right. [UAP Gerb, 53:00] And it wasn’t a secret mission, it was just like, go secure this LZ, something on our radar crashed, go see what it was. It wasn’t a UFO mission, it wasn’t a secret thing. The, I think the biggest question of that whole operation is who were these guys in in black camies, in black fatigues, that held Jonathan at gunpoint? [Danny Jones, 53:15] Mm. [UAP Gerb, 53:16] Are these crash retrieval operators, are they like a rapid reaction unit? Because if you look at a couple of years from, a couple of years from Jonathan’s encounter in 1997, the CIA Directorate of Science and Technology Deputy Director Karl Wolfe began what’s called the CIA’s Office of Global Access. The Office of Global Access has been accused by myself, by great reporters like Christopher Sharp at Liberation Times, who is incredibly brilliant, of running foreign crash retrieval programs and working with JSOC, Joint Special Operations Command. [Danny Jones, 53:46] Mm. [UAP Gerb, 53:47] So, one must ask, was this an element of JSOC retrieval teams? Of course, before he went public, Jake Barber, under a pseudonym, wrote the Sentinels of Ether little manuscript where he talked about kind of blue-on-blue retrieval team action and a JSOC unit firing upon US forces that were interested in, you know, craft retrieval and working in UFO programs. So, what are these special operators? It’s, it’s a really interesting question, because there’s tons of testimony of dedicated rapid reaction units, or are these local Special Forces guy, like I hypothesized in the Jonathan video, of local 7th US Army 7th Special Forces Green Berets just plugged in and said, “Hey, you got to go recover this”? These guys are are pretty severe, you know, pretty highly trained guys. So, are they just pulled in on happenstance, or are these dedicated teams brought in? [Danny Jones, 54:33] The, who was that guy’s name again? Jonathan? [UAP Gerb, 54:36] Jonathan. [Danny Jones, 54:36] No, no, the other guy, the guy who went on Jesse, talk about the psychotronic stuff. [UAP Gerb, 54:39] Oh, Jake Barber. [Danny Jones, 54:40] Jake Barber, yeah. The Jake Barber stuff was apparently corroborated with the Michael Herrera stuff. Cuz he like, he was, is it true that like he was going in to try to like… [UAP Gerb, 54:51] Red team. [Danny Jones, 54:52] Red, whatever fucking red team, I hate that word. [UAP Gerb, 54:55] Yeah. [Danny Jones, 54:55] Um, he was basically trying to like catch these whistleblowers and like prosecute them for like leaking classified information, and then he saw Michael Herrera talk, and then he was basically like, “Oh my god, I was a part of this.” [UAP Gerb, 55:07] Yep. [Danny Jones, 55:07] And that’s when he allegedly decided to like join the other side, and like blow the whistle himself. [UAP Gerb, 55:13] Yeah, I’m so glad that happened. I remember when Jake Barber did the extended video with Ross and mentioned Michael, because for over a year at that point I had been sworn to secrecy from Michael, not talking about his quote-unquote insider. [Danny Jones, 55:25] Uh-huh. [UAP Gerb, 55:25] Because Michael put a— Michael had, you know, kept me, given me the skinny about what had been going on for a long time, including where he was taken by Jake Barber. [Danny Jones, 55:33] So he’s told you this stuff like personally, right? [UAP Gerb, 55:35] And, yeah. And I knew, I knew Jake Barber by a different name at this point. But yes, it is true that Jake Barber was tasked to infiltrate Greer’s camp, and kind of try and maybe set up whistleblowers. I don’t know. I think the question needs to be asked: did Greer know this? Was Jake sent in to promise him high-level information, and did Greer know about this and willingly let Barber in, knowing that he was an agent for possibly an agency? Because around this same time, 2023, there are multiple Greer whistleblowers who I have found in Greer’s DPI archive, his Disclosure Project Intelligence Archive, and I’ve formed friendships and relationships with, that contacted Greer, and always in 2023, they started facing reprisals. They started getting threats to their pension. There’s one guy in Greer’s archive under the number 10892. This guy talks about being on an alien reproduction vehicle retrieval team at Nellis Air Force Base and kind of witnessing a touchdown of a sunflower extraterrestrial craft, that he cut off contact with Greer because he was threatened with inappropriate, you know, explicit underage content. [Danny Jones, 56:39] Oh my god. [UAP Gerb, 56:40] And, yeah. And so this stuff all happened around, started really ramping up around 2023. And so, did, you know, is, is there a connection there? One must ask, it’s, it’s quite perplexing. [Danny Jones, 56:54] It really is, man. [UAP Gerb, 56:56] But also, who knows? Greer’s operational security is absolutely abhorrent. [Danny Jones, 56:59] [laughter] [UAP Gerb, 57:01] I mean, there’s no excuse that I should be able to go into his archives and be able to track down some of the whistleblowers. No excuse. [Danny Jones, 57:08] Right. [UAP Gerb, 57:09] The operational security is so bad I should not be able to do that. [Danny Jones, 57:12] Yeah. [UAP Gerb, 57:13] But I’m just glad that it was me who was able to do that with some people, and not, you know, somebody else, unless agency folks have done that and kind of tracked down whistleblowers and threatened them with their pension. Because some of these high-level whistleblowers have spoken to Greer in the past, because he really was the only guy to turn to for a long time, right? He ran the Disclosure Project… [Danny Jones, 57:32] Yeah, that’s the thing about him. I mean, a lot of, everybody fucking hates Greer for the most part. I’ve never heard anyone say anything nice about him except for Jesse Michaels. Jesse Michaels is the one person who’s like, “Bro, you gotta give him credit. He’s been doing this forever. He’s, he’s brought forward the most amount of whistleblowers that have divulged the most amount of information, so like, you know, take it for what it’s worth, he’s, he’s done more harm than good.” Or, “No, I’m sorry, more good than harm.” [UAP Gerb, 57:54] Yeah, I don’t have a… I’ve never spoken to Greer. I don’t plan to. He and I don’t have a good relationship. He called me an intelligence asset, so… [Danny Jones, 58:01] [laughter] [UAP Gerb, 58:03] …I’m not, I’m not too… And he’s also hurt many of my friends, so I’m not too high up on Greer. I, I think that he kind of has his own vested interest in a lot of the testimonies he receives. I think he treats whistleblowers that come to him like his whistleblowers, instead of their own autonomous people that should be directed to, you know, people like David Grusch to disclose to, or Senate Select Committee on Intelligence. So, I think it’s very complicated, but I, personally, I’m not a huge fan. I don’t really like being called an intelligence asset, or him hurting my friends. [Danny Jones, 58:29] Yeah, yeah. No, no. There’s definitely some, some personality quirks there. [UAP Gerb, 58:34] But what I would like to see is… You know how he always calls out Lue Elizondo? [Danny Jones, 58:38] Yes. He’s got this crazy… there’s this crazy dynamic between him, him and Lue Elizondo, and I, I’d love to hear what you think about that. [UAP Gerb, 58:45] Uh, I don’t, I, I would rather err on the side of like pushing for disclosure instead of like trying to get into like interpersonal problems and so forth, especially a character like Lue who is surrounded by a lot of controversy. I, I do think, and all I’ll say is, I think more questions need to be asked and documents FOIAed about his time at CIFA in the early 2000s, the… [Danny Jones, 59:06] What is CIFA? [UAP Gerb, 59:07] Counterintelligence Field Activity. [Danny Jones, 59:08] Oh, yeah, yeah. [UAP Gerb, 59:09] Uh, I, on a on a pedestal of of like high-level whistleblowers, I put David Grusch, and then, and then, you know, others. But I don’t like to engage in the drama. But I would like to see a debate between those two, Greer and Elizondo. That would be really fantastic and interesting to see. Because Greer always calls Elizondo an asset, basically, a disinformation asset. [Danny Jones, 59:35] Well, don’t they have the same lawyer? Isn’t Danny Sheehan representing both of them? [UAP Gerb, 59:38] Yeah, Sheehan used to work for the Disclosure Project. I don’t know if he still does. A lot of people used to work for the Disclosure Project. Leslie Kean, you know, the writer of the 2017 New York Times article, she used to work for Steven Greer, back in the early 2000s. And I talked to her at the… I snuck my way in back in November, by the UFO hearings, into the Disclosure Fund event, and I talked to her… [Visual, 1:00:00] UAP Gerb speaking in a podcast studio with a “DANNY JONES PODCAST” logo overlay in the top right. [UAP Gerb, 1:00:00] for a long time. She’s she’s brilliant. She knows [Danny Jones, 1:00:01] Yeah. [UAP Gerb, 1:00:02] She knows quite a bit, but, you know, she even used to work with Greer. And I think back in the day Greer had a little bit of a different mindset. I I think maybe some of the problems with him arose more in the future. But that, that drama between the two is, is pretty interesting. [Danny Jones, 1:00:15] Yeah, man. The when you start to pay too much attention to like the the personalities and like the the UFO celebrities and the drama, you start to get like lost in this whole thing. And I think it’s probably intentional. And then the the combination of the combination of like Twitter, people on Twitter, you know, arguing about who’s right and who’s wrong and then you mix in the fact that everyone’s trying to sell a book, or a documentary, or a movie and they’re building their careers on this stuff. Um, you know, I’m not innocent of it. I do podcasts, I make money on podcasts about UFOs. So, I I try not to make my whole personality and my whole identity as much as I possibly can. But, um, you know, there’s just so much fucking bullshit to go through, bro. [UAP Gerb, 1:00:58] Oh, I know. And especially uh official nonsense, like Dr. Sean Kirkpatrick, the head of AARO, who is fraught with a lot of uh really weird past. So, you’re familiar with Dr. Sean Kirkpatrick of of AARO, right? [Danny Jones, 1:01:13] Yeah. [UAP Gerb, 1:01:14] Well, Sean Kirkpatrick has a very checkered past before AARO, and pretty interesting future after AARO. So, Sean Kirkpatrick gets a hold of AARO in like 2022. AARO reports to the Under Secretary for Defense for Intelligence and Security. This at the time is Ronald Moultrie, who was both on the board for Battelle Memorial Institute… [Danny Jones, 1:01:31] Oh, yeah. I want I want to talk about about them. [UAP Gerb, 1:01:32] Oh, absolutely. The MITRE Corporation and uh like a group called the Better Angels, which is funded by the Carlyle Group, which is a huge big money group. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, Kirkpatrick and Moultrie famously in 2022 kind of debunked the subject of UFOs and so forth. Kirkpatrick used to be a senior research scientist for SAIC, Science Applications International Corporation. Even published with them quite a few times. In 2022, AARO engaged in contracts under the DoD for AARO support services with a company called Sancorp. Sancorp, one directive is to stop whistleblower leaks. [Danny Jones, 1:02:09] Oh, wow. [UAP Gerb, 1:02:10] And I I recently tweeted about this. I have the exact contract number, but AARO is tweeting getting in getting in contracts with companies that specialize in whistleblower leaks. But I I want to focus on what Sean Kirkpatrick did after AARO. You know, he leaves AARO in a tirade, oh, nobody likes me, all that, uh really whiny. And then he goes on to work at Oak Ridge, which is a Department of Energy uh FFRDC, Federally Funded Research and Development Center. [Danny Jones, 1:02:34] That’s where he works now? [UAP Gerb, 1:02:36] No, not now. [Danny Jones, 1:02:37] Okay. [UAP Gerb, 1:02:37] But we can talk more about FFRDCs because when people talk about UFO legacy programs, like joint United States government contractor like Air Force and Northrop Grumman UFO programs, the missing link there is the FFRDCs. This is stuff like the MITRE Corporation, the Aerospace Corporation, Triad National Security run by Battelle, uh Oak Ridge, Sandia National Labs, Lawrence Livermore. But, yeah, so Kirkpatrick goes to work at Oak Ridge. He also uh joins Georgia Tech’s uh let me see what it’s called because I I wrote this down. I can’t remember, but he went on as a join joins Georgia Tech uh research institute, GTRI, a university-affiliated research center, as basically a senior consultant, a senior research consultant. A UARC, a university-affiliated research center, is the it is the university counterpart to the FFRDCs, the federally funded research and development centers. What these institutions are are corporate and university systems that are semi-private, but mostly kind of DoD and government owned. That’s why one of my big theories is that a lot of these programs operate with the subject matter experts and R&D wizards being these FFRDCs, because they’re not fully it’s not like a contractor fully removed from United States government or United States DoD. The FFRDC is a corporation still attached inherently to US government. [Danny Jones, 1:03:56] Oh, interesting. [UAP Gerb, 1:03:57] We can talk a little bit more about that because there’s a lot of interesting ties such as like uh this gets can harken all the way back to Kecksburg and Dr. Eric A. Walker and a lot of that good stuff. But uh additionally, since 2025, Sean Kirkpatrick, he formed his own LLC called Non-Linear Solutions. And as of 2025, Non-Linear Solutions is contracting for the MITRE Corporation for USSPACECOM, US Space Command. And what’s interesting there is in some FOIA documents by a Twitter user name Tegohm, in 2023, Kirkpatrick met with senior officials at USSPACECOM to brief them on UFO response and recovery and material transfer. So, you know, what what are the very strange connections there? AARO stinks to high heaven. Uh they also are AARO’s also a lying organization. You know, they published the AARO Historical Report Volume 1, nonsensical report. I hope somebody who’s read the cleared report, the classified report, can tell us why there’s no better explanations in that than the public report because the cleared report I’ve heard is just as nonsensical. But there’s testimonies that are lied about in there. A very specific example is Michael Herrera. We got Michael Herrera’s memorandum for record with AARO because in the AARO historical report volume one it talks about Michael’s testimony. It says like a US Marine encountered an extraterrestrial vehicle and US Special Forces. First of all, Michael never said extraterrestrial vehicle, he always thought this was a man-made vehicle, and never said US Special Forces, he just said unidentified special forces. And the memorandum for record, that proves that he never said extraterrestrial or US Special Forces. So, if AARO’s lying about details that small to make a whistleblower seem a little bit less credible, what else are they lying about in that? And why are they working with whistleblower protection, and why is Sean Kirkpatrick going on to work at under MITRE and so forth? These are all questions that must be asked. Is AARO a honeypot? Why is Tim Phillips, the deputy director of AARO, badmouthing David Grusch on LinkedIn? These are all strange… I talk about the FFRDCs and UARCs. Remember when we had the November House hearings, the Senate also had a some UFO hearings with uh with AARO at the end of 2024. Dr. John Kosloski, now AARO director, said AARO is now working with FFRDCs and UARCs. What are they doing with them? It’s these are all interesting question. [Danny Jones, 1:06:01] Yeah. It’s interesting to see who doesn’t like who and who’s saying what about you know, these other whistleblowers. You know, I mean it it definitely looks good for David Grusch if this guy is, you know, saying bad things about him. [UAP Gerb, 1:06:14] Oh, yeah. [Danny Jones, 1:06:15] Because, you know, he’s not involved with any… That obviously that guy’s not, you know, if he’s making up and and they’re manipulating Michael Herrera’s testimonies to make him seem more discreditable, there’s definitely something there. You know, the more the more of this stuff I hear, it’s just like, it seems like, it seems like all this stuff just is all this stuff from from sci-fi movies are becoming reality, you know? Like the like the Jake Barber stuff sounds exactly like Stranger Things. [UAP Gerb, 1:06:42] Yeah, yeah. Well, speaking of of Star Wars, have you heard of the Mark McCandlish story? [Danny Jones, 1:06:48] No. [UAP Gerb, 1:06:48] And Brad Sorensen? [Danny Jones, 1:06:50] No. [UAP Gerb, 1:06:50] Okay, this is in my opinion one of the greatest alien reproduction vehicle stories of all time, and we can also… I’m sure you’ve heard the term alien reproduction vehicle. [Danny Jones, 1:06:57] Yes. [UAP Gerb, 1:06:58] And I’ve I’m sure you’ve heard it associated with Greer. [Danny Jones, 1:07:00] Yes. [UAP Gerb, 1:07:01] But we can dispel that rumor as well in in this story. So this is about November 12th, 1988. This uh takes place at the Norton Air Force Base show at Norton Air Force Base in California. This is near Edwards Air Force Base. This is near Palm Springs. This is near the Lockheed Skunk Works. This is near USAF Plant 42. You know, all where a lot of the clandestine aircraft R&D of our nation takes place. Also a region which I think is a huge network of underground subterranean facilities. But, you know, we’ll talk about that later. But, so aerospace illustrator Mark McCandlish, who had done a lot of work for Popular Mechanics, uh various defense contractors, was scheduled to go to the Air Force show with his good friend Brad Sorensen, who was an industrial designer at the time. Brad Sorensen had been invited to the show from a high-profile client. Uh doesn’t really name this person, but connected with DoD somehow, possibly former Under Secretary for Defense, real high-up guy. A couple days before the air show, Mark McCandlish has to drop out. He needs to do some work for Popular Mechanics, and so Brad goes with, you know, the Under Sec, if that’s what it is. A week later, Mark finally he hears from Brad. Brad sounds really like beaten up and shaken. Um Brad sounds really, really, really upset. And Mark finally pries what Brad saw at the air show. And we’ll pause there because historically this story has been relayed second-hand from Mark McCandlish, right? Mark McCandlish talks about what Brad sees at the air show. It wasn’t until this year I found a a 1990 interview taken took place two years after this uh experience with Brad Sorensen and Aviation Week & Space Technology writer Bill Scott. So this is no longer a second-hand testimony relayed by Mark McCandlish, right? This is something that from Brad Sorensen’s own words because I’m directly referencing that interview. [Danny Jones, 1:08:50] Mhm. [UAP Gerb, 1:08:51] Because that’s that’s some of the things people have said about this story in particular, the flux liner, is that no, Mark McCandlish just said it. No, Brad Sorensen talked about it in this interview, and some of the details around that are really interesting. So, Brad Sorensen went to the Norton Air Show, tons of interesting aircraft, pretty cool. [Danny Jones, 1:09:05] Mhm. [UAP Gerb, 1:09:06] But at at some point during the show, the Under Sec or whoever he was with took him to a classified exhibit. Eh this is either a short flight down to USAF Plant 42 or it’s in a completely different hangar. And the only reason he gets in is because he’s attached to this very high-level former DoD guy. The two enter the hangar, and remember this is all according to Brad Sorensen, and in there there’s a lot of really interesting vehicles. There’s like a VTOL vertical takeoff and landing little Marines vehicle, there’s the losing prototype to the B-2 st- or yeah, B-2 stealth bomber, there’s something called the Lockheed Pulsar, which is is a craft that looks like a pumpkin seed. A craft that is I think powered by if I’m remembering correctly scramjet technology, super fast, remotely controlled. It contains 121 nuclear warheads. [Danny Jones, 1:09:50] Wow. [UAP Gerb, 1:09:52] And… [Danny Jones, 1:09:53] What? [UAP Gerb, 1:09:54] Yeah, that some of the military brass were were kind of boasting that they could destroy every major city in Russia in under an hour. [UAP Gerb, 1:10:00] …er and so forth. Yeah, that- that’s it. Yeah, that’s the Pulsar. And that’s drawn by Mark McCandlish. That’s drawn by, uh, Mark- [Visual, 1:10:02] Web browser displaying a drawing of “1st Generation ‘Aurora-Pulsar’“. [Danny Jones, 1:10:06] That’s wild, bro. Have you seen the- the Cormorant, the Lockheed Cormorant? [UAP Gerb, 1:10:10] Uh-uh. What is that? [Danny Jones, 1:10:12] I think, uh, Jeremy Rys told me about this. [UAP Gerb, 1:10:15] Oh, Alien Scientist. [Danny Jones, 1:10:16] Yeah. [UAP Gerb, 1:10:16] Smart cookie. [Danny Jones, 1:10:17] Yeah, man. He knows his stuff. He, uh, type in Lockheed Cormorant. That one’s crazy looking. [Visual, 1:10:21] Google search results for “lockheed cormorant”. [UAP Gerb, 1:10:22] Whoa. That thing. [Danny Jones, 1:10:25] Whoa. I think these- I mean, these are all obvious- or that one’s actually a real photo, yeah. [Visual, 1:10:29] Close-up of the Lockheed Martin Cormorant drone suspended from a crane. [UAP Gerb, 1:10:30] Is this a undersea UAV? [Danny Jones, 1:10:31] Yeah, bro. Look at that. Look at that thing. [UAP Gerb, 1:10:34] Looks like a bird. Of course, the Lockheed Martin stamp on it. Iconic. [Danny Jones, 1:10:37] Yeah, right? That thing is crazy. There’s just so much bizarre stuff these people are making. [UAP Gerb, 1:10:42] I know. [Danny Jones, 1:10:43] But apparently this thing can go in the water and in the air. [UAP Gerb, 1:10:48] There’s a Northrop o- Oh, it’s transmedium? [Danny Jones, 1:10:50] Yeah, bro. It flies and it goes under the water. Allegedly, who knows. [Visual, 1:10:54] Illustration of the Cormorant MPUAV flying above the ocean. [UAP Gerb, 1:10:55] That is a creepy looking vehicle. It looks like a- looks like a- almost like a bird, but also a little sci-fi, high-techy. [Visual, 1:11:04] Photo of a scale model of the Cormorant wing design labeled “NAVY”. [Danny Jones, 1:11:03] Yeah, like the- the more I see this stuff, bro, it seem- it just seems like there’s a- a human explanation for so many of this UFO- so much of this UFO. [UAP Gerb, 1:11:12] I think so, yeah. [Visual, 1:11:13] Host Danny Jones speaking in the studio. [Danny Jones, 1:11:13] I had this guy, uh, David Morehouse on a couple times and he- he worked in the Stargate program. [UAP Gerb, 1:11:17] Oh, cool. [Danny Jones, 1:11:18] Yeah, and he, uh, he was ex- he came in here with like a whole, uh, presentation of classified military aircraft and reconnaissance balloons and all kinds of things that explained- he basically explained away most of like the most famous UFO sightings ever, including the Phoenix Lights. He showed, uh, us like images of these giant balloons that have lights built in them. And they’re- they’re like reconnaissance balloons or something like this. And it was the exact shape of the Phoenix Lights flying V, same exact size, just giant black like tube balloons. [UAP Gerb, 1:11:54] Whoa. [Danny Jones, 1:11:55] Yeah. [UAP Gerb, 1:11:55] I, you- you know, I agree with you that a lot of what’s seen has a pretty mundane, prosaic explanation, or a classified military tech that a lot of it, regarding on the- how anomalous it is, how anomalous the sighting is, is probably some- some reverse-engineered stuff. Because… [Visual, 1:12:11] Web browser displaying the “Aurora-Pulsar” diagram again. [UAP Gerb, 1:12:12] Because, so, Brad Sorensen sees the Lockheed Pulsar, which seems like the same crazy technology as that Lockheed Cormorant. And then, he’s brought to the- the final section of the exhibit, where there are three flying saucers stationed hovering off the ground. Right? These look like a Jell-O mold with half a dome on top. Steve, would you look up ‘flux liner’? Uh, two words. These things are called ‘Little Bear’, ‘Mama Bear’, and ‘Papa Bear’ because they’re the same craft scaled. One’s about 60 feet in length to the largest about 120 feet in length. [Danny Jones, 1:12:46] This? [Visual, 1:12:47] Google search results for “flux liner”. [UAP Gerb, 1:12:47] Yeah. Yeah, you’ve probably seen that image before, right? [Danny Jones, 1:12:49] Seen this- I’ve seen the drawing before, yeah. I’ve seen that. [Visual, 1:12:51] Schematic diagram of the “ARV Flux Liner” by Mark McCandlish. [UAP Gerb, 1:12:52] That is the flux liner. So, there’s a like a three-star general and contracting personnel there that are showing a videotape of, I think it’s the smallest flux liner, um, kind of bouncing jaggedly over like a desert surface before taking off at rapid speeds, uh, straight up. So, this thing to Brad Sorensen, and Brad Sorensen hated the- this- this design because he talks non-stop in his interview that it looks like it was made by scientists, not by engineers. It looked slobbled together, you know, there was chipped paint on it. Those little bubbles on the outside were synthetic vision systems. Um, they’re little- they’re camera arrays that do to kind of create a 3D picture of where the craft’s going. [Visual, 1:13:01] Detailed blueprint diagram of the Alien Reproduction Vehicle (ARV). [UAP Gerb, 1:13:31] The seats are F-4 Phantom jump seats. Uh, so this craft was like jerry-rigged. [Visual, 1:13:31] Close-up of the ARV blueprint focusing on the crew cabin and seats. [UAP Gerb, 1:13:35] That little ball handle right there, it’s really interesting in, um, Tom DeLonge’s, uh, book. I can’t- I ca- name escaped me right now, Secret Machines. He talks about that same control system right there is used to control like the TR-3B-like reverse-engineered triangle. But so, these- these craft are, uh, powered- I don’t really understand the physics, but by like some anti-gravity capacitor array and so forth, and, and the- the skinny that Brad Sorensen is given is that these craft were created from technology copied, found at Roswell. And that, I think the- the brass were saying that, you know, we were never supposed to have these craft, uh, we took it from the beings, we’ve tried to recreate how it works, this is the best we can get it, it’s basically a poor man’s representation. [Visual, 1:13:59] Guest UAP Gerb speaking in the studio. [UAP Gerb, 1:13:59] This craft has cameras slapped on the outside and like acrylic bubbles you’d find at a Walmart. It has jump seats from a jet. It has a Navy submarine door on the outside, but we have tried to reverse-engineer the propulsion systems of these craft as- as well as possible. And these, according to Brad Sorensen, according to what he saw, these- these were copy vehicles taken from non-human intelligence at Roswell. [Danny Jones, 1:14:48] What- what year was this again? [UAP Gerb, 1:14:49] 1988. [Danny Jones, 1:14:50] 1988. [UAP Gerb, 1:14:51] But what’s interesting here is that this craft right here, and Steve, can you look up, uh, 1967 Harvey- Harvey Williams? In 1967, u- USAF Captain, Air Force Captain Harvey Williams, about 20- 12,000 to 20,000 feet over Provo, Utah, uh, captured an image of a flying saucer that looks exactly like, uh, one of these. But it looks like an evolution of the flux liner, because- because it has larger acrylic bubbles. And as time passes, you’d think camera technology size would- would decrease and you can kind of re- rethink the acrylic bubbles. But, um, this is the- this is the story of the flux liner, and Mark McCandlish would draw what Brad told him, because Brad didn’t want anything to do with this story. So Mark McCandlish would draw this, he would take this around, he would present it at Greer’s Disclosure Project. He would talk, uh… [Visual, 1:15:39] Google search results for “ufo provo utah”. [UAP Gerb, 1:15:39] Yes, that’s the first image right there. 1966 Provo Utah. [Danny Jones, 1:15:42] Okay. [UAP Gerb, 1:15:43] Right there. That’s taken by USAF Captain, if it’s not Harvey Williams I’m butchering this badly, there’s a much higher-definition, uh, image out there. [Danny Jones, 1:15:49] Yeah, that looks like it. Same shape. [UAP Gerb, 1:15:51] Yeah. So Mark McCandlish would- would, you know, create a line-art drawing of this, and he- he would take it all around, talk to people, and apparently he met other people like USAF veteran Kent Sellen, who saw the same craft at Edwards Air Force Base in, I think, 1972, I want to say, I’m trying to remember correctly. But Mark McCandlish would eventually, in 2014, create a documentary with a filmmaker named James Allen, about, you know, zero-point energy systems, the flux liner, Alien Reproduction Vehicles. About less than three months before the interview is to be, or before the documentary is to be released, James Allen gets struck with a very rare and aggressive form of cancer and dies within three months. And Mark McCandlish ordered an autopsy report on him, so did the editor of the documentary that I’ve talked to, and James Allen was found to have heavy metal poisoning in his autopsy report. So it’s- it’s weird because in this documentary, the two, James Allen and Mark McCandlish, talk all about, you know, various energy systems, various zero-point energy systems where the inventors have mysteriously died, gone missing, like throw themselves out of a window. And so James Allen, right before that documentary is released, goes, you know, he dies as well. And in 2020, Mark McCandlish was found with a self-inflicted gunshot wound to the head. [Danny Jones, 1:17:07] What? [UAP Gerb, 1:17:07] And he said in- maybe it was 2022, but he said that in- interview shortly before in 2020 that he slept with a pillow under his- his pillow because he was also afraid of what was going to happen to him. Uh, according… [Visual, 1:17:18] Host Danny Jones speaking in the studio. [Danny Jones, 1:17:18] A pillow under his pillow? [Visual, 1:17:20] Guest UAP Gerb speaking in the studio. [UAP Gerb, 1:17:20] I’m sorry, a pistol under his pillow. [Visual, 1:17:22] Host Danny Jones laughing. [Danny Jones, 1:17:21] Oh, a pistol under his pillow. [Visual, 1:17:23] Guest UAP Gerb speaking in the studio. [UAP Gerb, 1:17:23] Yeah, I’m sorry. And, you know, there’s some rumors, according to some close sources of Mark McCandlish, that he was going to testify to Senator Rubio shortly before his death. So… [Danny Jones, 1:17:33] (exhalation) [UAP Gerb, 1:17:35] But this also gets really interesting because this was relayed by Mark McCandlish for the better part of 30 years, right? I found the original interview with Brad Sorensen and Bill Scott from Aviation Week & Space Technology. Once I find that and put up a video of the flux liner, I get a call from a UFO researcher, very well-known guy, very respected, great on crash retrieval, but he’s also really close with, uh, Greer. Like, really good buddies with Greer. And he calls me and said, “Where did you find that interview? Like, that’s not supposed to be public. You should take that down.” “Why isn’t that supposed to be public?” Because this story was always second-hand with Mark McCandlish and not Brad Sorensen. And what’s weird is, I… [Visual, 1:18:08] Host Danny Jones speaking in the studio. [Danny Jones, 1:18:08] One of Greer’s close friends is a researcher, and why did he tell you it should be taken down? [UAP Gerb, 1:18:13] He said it’s internal. [Danny Jones, 1:18:15] Internal for who? [UAP Gerb, 1:18:16] Exactly. Why? Because I messaged Brad Sorensen. I emailed. [Danny Jones, 1:18:21] Right. [UAP Gerb, 1:18:21] And the amount of death threats that man gave me is unlimited. [Danny Jones, 1:18:25] What man? [UAP Gerb, 1:18:26] Brad Sorensen. [Danny Jones, 1:18:27] Oh, really? [UAP Gerb, 1:18:28] Yeah, like, “Say goodbye to you and your family,” “You’ll never see it coming,” uh, “Mark was a stupid, dramatic, uh, fool, you’re going to end up the same way he did.” And then I kept pushing, because so there was some little inkling that I thought maybe Brad, there’s more than meets the eye to Brad here, and so, Brad kind of gave me a little bit of the implication he may have actually like worked on such a craft, saying stuff like, “I create- I helped create what I saw,” and stuff like that. It’s an incredibly intriguing case, the flux liner. Incredibly intriguing. And that’s just one instance of a alien reproduction vehicle. There’s another really interesting thing, like, everybody thinks about the TR-3B triangle, right? [Danny Jones, 1:19:04] Mhm. [UAP Gerb, 1:19:05] Like, the- the famous triangle from Edgar Fouche. It’s got the three, four lights on the bottom, the big red light and then the three lights on the, kind of the exterior of the triangle. [Danny Jones, 1:19:14] I think I know what you’re talking about. [UAP Gerb, 1:19:15] Well, so… [Danny Jones, 1:19:16] Let’s see if we can find a picture of it, Steve, just to make sure. [Visual, 1:19:23] Google search results for “tr3b triangle”. [UAP Gerb, 1:19:19] There- forensic artist named Bill McDonald. He worked with… [Danny Jones, 1:19:22] This? [UAP Gerb, 1:19:23] Yeah. Yeah, just like the classic triangle. The Sal Pais patents. [Danny Jones, 1:19:26] Yep. [UAP Gerb, 1:19:27] There- Bill McDonald worked with Ron Regehr and Dr. Robert Wood of McDonnell Douglas, who are some- some great investigators into the Majestic 12 documents. And so he created all sorts of art and all sorts of UFO art, worked with various, uh, films to create craft and so forth. In 1992, in Antelope Valley, California, kind of the aerospace hub of- of the United States, he met with two Lockheed and two Northrop engineers. And these guys worked at the Lockheed Martin Helendale Radar Cross Section Facility, and the Northrop Tejon Radar Cross Section Facility. Now, these two places are very infamous… [Visual, 1:19:30] Diagram of a triangular craft labeled “Black triangle (UFO) - Wikipedia” [Visual, 1:20:00] UAP Gerb in the podcast studio [UAP Gerb, 1:20:00] …UFO lore. And these engineers came together, two from Lockheed, two from Northrop, to illustrate the reverse engineered craft they had been working on that they are so tired of the secrecy around. So, Bill McDonald, of course, drew that craft. It’s really interesting. Steve, can you look up, uh, Tehachapi triangle? T-E-H-A, Teha, C-H-A-P-I triangle? And that, you know, I’ve pressed Bill McDonald for the, the sources on this subject as well for this, uh, triangular craft and he won’t give them… That’s it, yes. First, first one right there. But what’s interesting here is, are you a fan of the X-Files? [Visual, 1:20:32] Google search results page for “tehachapi triangle” [Danny Jones, 1:20:33] Yes. [Visual, 1:20:34] DeviantArt page showing drawing of the Tehachapi Triangle craft [UAP Gerb, 1:20:34] Okay, so, season 1, episode 1 of the X-Files, not the pilot, but it’s the episode called Deep Throat. [Danny Jones, 1:20:41] Oh. [UAP Gerb, 1:20:41] It’s about Mulder. He goes to a Air Force base and, uh, to investigate a test pilot that’s gone missing and encounters this craft. Uh, Chris Carter and John DeSouza, the FBI agent on which the first season of X-Files was based, went up to Bill McDonald and, and contracted him to use, to use that design for the, the X-Files, uh, episode, which I found really interesting. [Danny Jones, 1:20:58] Wow. That is really interesting. [UAP Gerb, 1:21:01] Really interesting. So I’d like to press more into that because that’s another possible example of an alien reproduction vehicle. You know, there’s the triangles, there’s the saucers, uh, possibly what Michael Herrera saw. Just a, a ton, ton of possible… [Danny Jones, 1:21:12] There’s so much overlap in movie and television and real life, bro, it’s crazy. [Visual, 1:21:13] Podcast studio with Danny Jones on camera [UAP Gerb, 1:21:17] It’s like in, uh, in Close Encounters of the Third Time… Third Kind. There’s large crates and boxes of materials from TRW and Lockheed Martin that Steven Spielberg put in there. How interesting is that? [Danny Jones, 1:21:27] Didn’t, didn’t he also use the same hand scanner that Bob Lazar talked about? [UAP Gerb, 1:21:30] Yeah, yeah. It’s, it’s really, really intriguing. And I think, uh, oh gosh, who was it, who was it recently? Steven Spielberg even said that he showed like E.T. to some high mil, up military officials who kind of commented how E.T. and like the subject of extraterrestrials was really closely related to his film and so forth. Really intriguing. Steven Spielberg seems to be pretty tapped in. He’s working on another kind of UFO film, uh, lately. [Danny Jones, 1:21:55] Yeah, I heard about that. I don’t, I don’t know exactly what, what it was about though. It’s been a while since I heard about it. Um, yeah, bro. So the Jake Barber stuff, like the psionic stuff, um, what do you make of all that? [UAP Gerb, 1:22:10] It’s, it’s so, it’s so interesting. But, I was kind of of the mind that before you introduce subjects like psionics, which requires a lot of, of understanding and faith into like remote viewing, um, psi research, which, you know, the Stargate program and SAIC did a heck of a lot into. But, I think before that was introduced, there needs to be a more firm understanding of crash retrieval and reverse engineering. [Danny Jones, 1:22:36] Okay. [UAP Gerb, 1:22:37] Because, uh, Jake Barber psionics, uh, at the range, the whole MO was to use psionics to bring in these craft and either force them to land or use some directed energy weapons to blast them out of the sky. [Danny Jones, 1:22:46] Right. Right. [Danny Jones, 1:22:48] Totally ridiculous. [UAP Gerb, 1:22:50] Yeah, before you ask an uninitiated viewer to believe that, you got to first say, hey, there are UFOs here, they’re not piloted by humans, sometimes they crash, sometimes they’re shot down, and we retrieve them. [Danny Jones, 1:22:59] Mhm. [UAP Gerb, 1:23:00] But the, the subject of psi, I would still be pretty keen to see a demonstration of psionics. I’ve, I’ve never seen it, so it’s still, it’s still a little bit tough for me to wrap my head around. What, what do you think? [Danny Jones, 1:23:12] No, I don’t know. I had never heard about it before the Jake Barber stuff. But it does like the, the fact like what Michael Herrera and Jake Barber were talking about with allegedly going to this earthquake disaster zone… [UAP Gerb, 1:23:25] Yeah. [Danny Jones, 1:23:26] …and trying to capture like kids, with like left-handed kids, and, uh, first of all, they’re from like this remote part of the world. They’re not really connected from tech, to technology. Um, and they’re, they’re young. So like, there’s definitely something to be said, like we were talking on the phone yesterday, I think I was telling you like, like children seem to be more tapped in to this, like a, a extra invisible sense… [UAP Gerb, 1:23:49] Yeah. [Danny Jones, 1:23:51] …that, that we lose as we grow up, you know, similar to like cats and dogs can like, can sense different energies, you know, in the room. It’s, uh, it’s similar to like Joe Rogan’s fart hypothesis. Have you heard that? [UAP Gerb, 1:23:59] No. [Danny Jones, 1:24:01] Basically, like if somebody, if somebody farts and you didn’t have the sense of smell or a nose, you’d just be sitting in their fart and you would have absolutely no idea. [UAP Gerb, 1:24:06] Yeah. [Danny Jones, 1:24:07] So how many other things exist all around us that we don’t have the senses to detect? You know? [UAP Gerb, 1:24:13] Right. [UAP Gerb, 1:24:13] Right. And, you know, the subject of psionics is nothing new. Um, you can look back to the claims of, of Lieutenant Colonel Philip J. Corso, who, of course, he’s infamous for the book The Day After Roswell, which has a bunch of added nonsense from write, co-writer Bill Burns. If you want to actually understand Corso’s story, you should read his manuscript, Dawn of a New Age. But he even talks about some of the technologies leveraged and utilized from the Roswell crash, specifically was systems to try and control ICBM missiles with brainwaves. So all the way back with Corso in 1960 to 1962, he, you know, if, if what he’s talking about under the Foreign Technology Division is legit, there, there were already plans to try and adapt, you know, mind control, mind machine interfaces. Really interesting. It’s, it’s perplexing that he says that because, of course, psionics… [Danny Jones, 1:25:03] Did he expand on that at all? [UAP Gerb, 1:25:04] No, it’s a short section. And I’ll, I’ll send it to you. I, I think I told you, I, I forgot to do it. He, he just talked about, uh, trying to use brainwaves… [Danny Jones, 1:25:13] Brainwaves? [UAP Gerb, 1:25:14] Brainwaves, to control ICBMs. And if you look at the old, old files of Leonard Stringfield, he talks multiple times about headband transceivers being found in crashed UFOs that control the craft. So it’s, it’s, it’s nothing new. I, I just think that a lot of the time with like, uh, you really got to slow down and demonstrate the capabilities of this, of this first. Because I know with Skywatchers, there’s still gray area in what they’re summoning, right? Like each YouTube video creates a lot of discourse of, of, you know, the, the pinpricks of light. Are they birds? Are they balloons? Or are they extraterrestrial or non-human craft? I think a very firm demonstration needs to be made, and then you can kind of bring in some of the baggage with that. Because psionics is a really interesting, uh, topic with a lot of baggage. Because I know I think it was Greer that talked about like left-handed and gay people. [Danny Jones, 1:25:58] Yeah, left-handed and gay people, right. Young. [UAP Gerb, 1:26:02] Yeah, ya, young, young as well, kids from the Gate programs, the Gifted and Talented Education programs. And I, I would like to… [Danny Jones, 1:26:10] And allegedly they were kept at the spot and like, they were held there and fed a specific diet. [UAP Gerb, 1:26:15] Yeah. [Danny Jones, 1:26:16] And like given certain medications, something like this? [UAP Gerb, 1:26:19] Yeah, one of the Skywatchers top psionic guys is a, a guy named, uh, I can’t remember his name, it’s escaped me right now, but he’s told me he was in the, the Gate program as a child, and now he’s a Skywatchers psionic. What’s interesting about his case is he said while he was in the Gate program, one time as a young kid, a bunch of eggheads in, uh, lab coats brought in a briefcase and opened it up and it was a, like a, like a metallic swirling sphere in there, almost like a palantir, and told to just kind of look into it and react to it. Uh, the description of that sphere is almost identical to a, a witness that Jesse and I both covered, uh, Randy Anderson, who is a former US Army Green Beret, who, 2013 to 2015, was at the Naval Surface Warfare Center Crane in Indiana, a, a really austere weapons facility. And he was taken underground by a contractor because he was one of, uh, two guys in the Green Beret unit with, um, you know, high clearance levels for weapons training. [Danny Jones, 1:27:09] Oh, yeah, I remember this interview. [UAP Gerb, 1:27:11] Yeah, and he was, uh, shown something called the Off-World Technologies Division, and a piece of technology that was, by all intents and purposes, a, an identical sphere to what this Skywatchers asset described, that reacted to human consciousness. [Danny Jones, 1:27:24] There’s, there’s so much crazy stuff, dude, it’s almost impossible to track it all. And like, again, when it goes when when you have people like that Jake guy coming out and like talking about this psionic stuff, and like it always is fishy to me when people talk in these absolutisms and terms, as if like they know exactly what’s happening, you know? [UAP Gerb, 1:27:42] Yeah. [Danny Jones, 1:27:44] And, uh, and I don’t know, it’s it’s almost like it’s just so difficult to navigate this stuff, that it’s like, you know, I like to check out every once in a while and just be like, zoom out on all this stuff, take a breath, take a breather, and then, you know, see where it goes, see where it goes, because it’s it’s, uh, overbearing, man. It’s so much to, to, to, to handle and digest. [UAP Gerb, 1:28:04] Oh, I don’t blame you. Because there’s, there’s so much discourse, there’s so much in-fighting, there’s so much inter-factionality. Like, there’s probably disclosure advocates with varying interests in how disclosure plays out. [Danny Jones, 1:28:17] Mhm. [UAP Gerb, 1:28:18] Uh, you know, maybe there’s a difference in what like Luis Elizondo wants versus what Eric Davis wants at the end of the day for disclosure, and how these things are brought about. What does the Navy do? What does the Air Force do? What does the Army do in terms of UFO crash retrieval, reverse engineering? How siloed are the programs? Is the Navy working on an ARV, and the Army working on an ARV? Both the same program, but have no cross communication? Uh, what role does the do the intelligence agencies play? How does the NRO hop in? How does the NSA hop in? You know, how do these programs work? How are they funded? That’s a big, that’s a really interesting question as well, that I think there’s a lot of funding mechanisms for such programs. Like back in the ’80s, uh, the Navy was being overcharged by the Grumman Corporation and some other corporations. They’re being charged like $600, $400 to $600 for ashtrays in like F-14s. [Danny Jones, 1:29:05] Ashtrays in F-14s? [UAP Gerb, 1:29:07] Yeah, ashtrays in F-14s. And that brings me back to that guy I told you about, Ed. Ed, at Edwards Air Force Base. [Danny Jones, 1:29:11] Mhm. [UAP Gerb, 1:29:12] After he was done at Edwards, he went on to work at the Pentagon for the Air Force Research, Development, Test, and Evaluation Panel chain. Uh, he said in, in two separate years, $34 billion and then $40 billion went missing from the Air Force in non-transfer authority funds. Just completely wiped off the books. You know, I’ve, I’ve also been privy to conversations with individuals who have seen cash transactions, huge pallets of cash trans- transacted for UFO legacy programs. [Danny Jones, 1:29:39] Yeah. [UAP Gerb, 1:29:40] And then, of course, you have, uh, Catherine Austin Fitts, who talks about really creative funding, uh, from the DoD and Housing and Urban Development. And you got a great story from, um, SAIC, Science Applications International Corporation, and I’d, I’d love to tell you a really, really intriguing story about, uh, SAIC’s kind of contract work, if you don’t mind. [Danny Jones, 1:29:56] Yeah, oh, yeah. [UAP Gerb, 1:29:59] So, SAIC, first of all… [Visual, 1:30:00] UAP Gerb speaking in a podcast studio. [UAP Gerb, 1:30:00] … has been in some hot water for overcharging, like, the NSA. 7, like, 5 to 7 billion dollars for the Trailblazer program, [Danny Jones, 1:30:07] Mmhmm. [UAP Gerb, 1:30:07] which was supposed to be like a large scale spy software, right after 9/11 that was complete, that completely didn’t work. But the NSA kind of was fraud, was fraudulently charged by SAIC for all of this money. SAIC has enormous contracts, many of which don’t make any sense, like a recent 280 million dollar contract with Sandia National Labs, which is a Department of Energy FFRDC, for IT consolidation work. Hmm, how does IT work, you know, take 280 million dollars? Of course with SAIC, we’ve talked about Kirkpatrick. SAIC has insane ties to the Wilson Davis memo. SAIC has ties to director of Nero, Bobby Ray Inman. But in 1992, there, so there’s a whistleblower from SAIC, her name’s Denise McKenzie, and she actually disclosed, in, I think 2000. And so her story goes: in 1992, she was working at a fabric store at a mall in La Jolla, San Diego. A new part-time girl named Sophia starts working with her. Sophia says, “Hey, come work for this contractor. It, you know, it’s better work.” [Danny Jones, 1:31:12] Yeah. [UAP Gerb, 1:31:13] And so she shows up expecting an interview at a large contractor. She’s hired on the spot at a massive campus that is SAIC, Science Applications International Corporation, La Jolla. She’s not even really told what to do besides administrative work on a computer, and that girl who recruited her, Sophia, didn’t show up for like another three or four weeks. So she’s just sitting there having no idea what to do on the job. And eventually, a bunch of letters come in while she’s working at SAIC that are basically asking for contract updates on DoD and other contractor contracts. These are massive contracts, some in hundreds of million dollars, some millions of dollars, some tens of millions of dollars. And she’s working in the building where SAIC does all sorts of classified chemical and biological research. [Danny Jones, 1:31:52] Mmhmm. [UAP Gerb, 1:31:53] Really interesting biochem facility there that probably connects with Battelle Memorial Institute and Dugway Proving Ground. And so she goes to her superiors because she wants to kind of impress them, and says, “Hey, what, you know, what do I do with these contracts?” The superior says, I think the superior right here is named Stanley Stewart, who I’ve actually tried to track down, said, “Oh, just say we’re working on it.” [Danny Jones, 1:32:16] Mmhmm. [UAP Gerb, 1:32:16] So she, being a new employee, doesn’t really want to just say we’re working on it on massive DoD contracts. So she goes in the file room to find these contract numbers, to find the contracts, to find the programs. And in each file for every single program, all that’s in there is just a paper that says we’re working on it, the same file updates. So the SAIC is undergoing enormous contracts for DoD and other contractors with no movement on them. Nothing’s being done, no progress reports, [Danny Jones, 1:32:44] Mmhmm. [UAP Gerb, 1:32:44] no technical reports, nothing like that. So they’re just empty contracts. So that money can be funneled, like Catherine Austin Fitts says, specifically mentioning SAIC, into the black budget. So she, she goes and tells Sophia, the woman that recruited her, eventually. And Sophia freaks out, she gets reprimanded by her superiors, all the files are taken away. She’s harassed by one of the bosses, and she eventually quits when she almost chokes on some food and like nobody helps her. But so, later on down the line, she’s interested to search for Sophia because she never saw Sophia again. In the early days of the internet, she finds Sophia’s picture, same first name, different last name, on a CIA operative database. But the weird thing is that this Sophia girl that recruited her to work at SAIC, remember this took place in 1992, apparently died in 1998. All sorts of weird things going on there with SAIC. And 1992 was also when SAIC took off, took over the Stargate program from SRI and the CIA. [Visual, 1:33:39] Camera cuts to Danny Jones leaning forward. [Danny Jones, 1:33:39] SAIC took over that? [Visual, 1:33:41] Camera cuts back to UAP Gerb. [UAP Gerb, 1:33:41] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. SAIC, huge, huge into, like, telepathy, telekinesis. They have lots of reports on it using human subjects for such things. And I guess their research was carried on and taken seriously because as recently as 2013, the Office of Naval Research published a study, like a revolutionary study on human sixth sense using like precognition in humans, almost to kind of get a jump on things. So really, really weird discussion of contracts and like human remote viewing at SAIC. [Visual, 1:34:10] Camera cuts to Danny Jones speaking. [Danny Jones, 1:34:10] Mm, yeah, they’re involved in so much weird shit, man. I told you, first time I heard about them was when I was reading the article all about the creation of Google, how basically Google was incubated by like Darpa, NSA, and the CIA, and all this stuff, basically going and visiting Sergey Brin at Stanford, and, you know, while doing like status updates every month on what they were doing and how they were doing, I think they got the PageRank system directly from Darpa. [UAP Gerb, 1:34:34] Yeah. [Danny Jones, 1:34:35] Which is strange. But, you know, you know, if, if you just understand that history of, of how it was how Google was created and who they were working with, and look at where we’re at now, with all the stuff that’s going on, you know, how they’re basically trying to like influence the narrative of the public, and censor certain speech, and boost other speech, and using, you know, now, you know, Google basically creates everything from phones, to security systems, to every application and, and appliance, soon they’re going to be making your fucking washer and dryer, you know, that, and it’s going to fucking talk to you, have cameras in it, so it’s just like, okay… [Visual, 1:35:10] Camera cuts to UAP Gerb smiling. [UAP Gerb, 1:35:11] Smart washer, dryer. [Visual, 1:35:12] Camera cuts to Danny Jones. [Danny Jones, 1:35:12] …I can’t imagine it’s anywhere good. [Visual, 1:35:40] Camera cuts to UAP Gerb. [UAP Gerb, 1:35:40] It’s a, it’s a terrifying reality, especially when companies like Google and companies like SAIC, that basically helped create the internet, can work hand in hand. [Danny Jones, 1:35:47] Hand in hand. [UAP Gerb, 1:35:47] Yeah, can influence such extreme thought narratives. I mean, SAIC themselves, they were, they chaired the panel that testified to the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence that said Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction and thus the United States needed to invade Iraq. And when no weapons of mass destruction were found, they chaired the same panel that said we investigated ourselves and we did nothing wrong, absolving the governments, the intelligence agencies, and SAIC of any involvement. So they can really influence public perception in a massive way, even, like, DoD, high level perception, and kind of government perception. [Visual, 1:36:22] Camera cuts to Danny Jones. [Danny Jones, 1:36:22] Yeah, man. It’s crazy. But like, going back to what we were we were discuss we were discussing like, you know, some of these private contractors. We talked a lot about like the DOE. [UAP Gerb, 1:36:32] Mm-hmm. [Danny Jones, 1:36:33] Which is interesting because, you know, Annie Jacobsen lays it out really well in her first book, Area 51, and her most recent book about nuclear war. She talks a lot about the Department of Energy, which, from what I understand, is—you might know more about this than I do—but the DOE, the Department of Energy, essentially, is like the fourth, fifth, or sixth name change from the Manhattan Project. [UAP Gerb, 1:37:06] Yeah. [Danny Jones, 1:37:07] It was the Manhattan Project, then they changed name to something else, Atomic Energy Commission, something else, and now the Manhattan Project is basically, it’s the same thing as the DOE. It’s the same fucking organization. [UAP Gerb, 1:37:07] Yeah, I mean… [Danny Jones, 1:37:08] …which is crazy to think about. And then, that’s the same company that put out puts out regulations of like what types of light bulbs we’re allowed to use or sell. [Visual, 1:37:15] Camera cuts to UAP Gerb. [UAP Gerb, 1:37:16] I mean, the DOE is truly an enormous and amorphous blob. They even have their own like like they even have their own armed teams called SRT, Special Response Team, that transfer like nuclear radiological materials across the continental United States. The DOE has their hand in almost every pie. I mean, the DOE is born from the granddaddy, the Atomic Energy Commission, that has just tremendous ties to to possible UFO programs, just like we talked about, the 1954 Atomic Energy Act that is literally name dropped in the UAPDA, and literally said, “Hey, UFO materials, information, etc. are hidden within restricted data, within transclassified foreign nuclear information, under the Atomic Energy Commission.” So the the DOE just has their hand in so many ties, and the DOE also sponsors so many federally funded research and development centers, like Lawrence Livermore National Lab, Sandia National Labs, Oak Ridge, etc. where, you know, I I have some degree of of confidence that there are reverse engineering and retrieval operations, you know, being conducted at at such locations. [Visual, 1:38:20] Camera cuts to Danny Jones. [Danny Jones, 1:38:20] And, and even the DOE, what they were doing in, um, I think it was the, like, the ’60s or ’70s when they were like detonating subterranean nukes and shit. Like, working with these oil companies trying to like basically, uh, frac oil using nuclear weapons. It’s just insane like like you said, all the all the, uh, all the pies they have their hands in, bro. [Visual, 1:38:41] Camera cuts to UAP Gerb. [UAP Gerb, 1:38:41] Yeah, whenever you investigate a crash retrieval story, or like a a craft being housed, any testimony, you can always do a couple extra steps of research and find out some connection to the DOE. [Danny Jones, 1:38:51] Mmhmm. [UAP Gerb, 1:38:52] It’s a, it’s a very very scary organization. And, you know, even in some high profile whistleblower testimony, like, uh, Edgar Fouche, who talked about the TR-3B being reverse engineered, Alien Reproduction Vehicle, he directly said stuff like the Lawrence Livermore National Labs and Sandia National Labs, two DOE FFRDCs, uh, reverse engineered the propulsion devices for the TR-3B. [Visual, 1:39:12] Camera cuts to Danny Jones. [Danny Jones, 1:39:13] And what about Battelle? Where does Battelle fit into all this stuff? [Visual, 1:39:15] Camera cuts to UAP Gerb. [UAP Gerb, 1:39:16] Oh, Battelle, Battelle’s pretty interesting. So, Battelle Memorial Institute, I think you and Jesse talked about it, not only do they have ties to Ronald Moultrie, who was, uh, Under Secretary of Defense for Intelligence and Security, who AARO reported to. But so, I think you guys talked about this too. Nitinol, Nitinol, that, you know, shape memory alloys, [Danny Jones, 1:39:33] Yes. [UAP Gerb, 1:39:34] Battelle was kind of doing some some secret projects on that. Wasn’t really declassified until the early ’60s, when Nitinol was like accidentally discovered. Battelle Memorial Institute also ran something called Project Stork, which was actually a hidden UFO program parallel to Blue Book. You know, Project Blue Book, 1952 to 1969. Why does Battelle have their own really secretive UFO program? And, uh… [Visual, 1:40:00] UAP Gerb is speaking in the podcast studio. [UAP Gerb, 1:40:00] back in the same time as Blue Book. There’s also a, I know of an individual that I, I did a video on. This, this took place at Dugway Proving Ground at the West Desert Test Center, which is Dugway Proving Ground’s major range test facility base, where in the Avery area of Dugway, which is, you know, an Air Force, pretty, pretty extensive contractor location. He went into a building while doing contracting work there and saw a craft. And this craft was hovering off the ground, and it was being worked on by, by various individuals. Well, the West Desert Test Center which specializes in chemical and biological work, if you look at the history of people who have run the West Desert Test Center, it’s always former Battelle guys. Always. Battelle also runs multiple FFRDCs like the out near Fort Detrick, Maryland, and, and that kind of region, which has really high-profile biological and chemical work that there’s some rumors that, that’s where some of the bodies of, extraterrestrial or non-human intelligence are stored. Battelle also, really smartly, Battelle kind of set the playbook by forming something called Triad National Security. It was Battelle, a university, and another organization that formed like their own, company to manage some DOE labs for FFRDCs. I, I’m trying to think which exactly here, but once Battelle did that, then companies like SAIC started doing that with EG&G. SAIC started doing that with Northrop. SAIC started doing that with Amentum, which recently whistleblower Matthew Brown has said operates hangars that hold, reverse engineered technology at Pax River in Virginia. So Battelle has always, at least to me, seems like a, almost, almost like a chemical and biological subject matter expert. There’s, there’s one of those nickel-titanium alloy studies from Battelle that was, you know, I can’t remember the date, declassified. But it was by a man named, I… [Visual, 1:41:40] Camera cuts to Danny Jones speaking. [Danny Jones, 1:41:40] Is this the Nitinol stuff? [UAP Gerb, 1:41:40] Yeah, yeah. [Danny Jones, 1:41:41] Okay. [UAP Gerb, 1:41:42] I, is it Edward, it’s not Howard Cross, it’s Edward something. But it’s a name, it’s a name that worked on one of the, you know, investigating these alloys. And this same individual, I, I don’t know why his name is slipping from me, I just talked about it with Jesse. But, on, late in his life in 1992 to MUFON, to MUFON researcher Irene Scott, this guy disclosed to her that he worked on metals that were leveraged from non-human intelligence craft that had crashed. So you have your own Battelle guy who worked on those reports saying that stuff came from flying saucers, essentially. [Danny Jones, 1:42:17] Yeah, I remember Jeremy Corbell, he, he went to one of the big hearings, I think it was last year. And he like, you know, he, he’s crazy. He was doing like live streams like talking to people, pulling people to the side. And he was interviewing, I forget who it was. It was one, it was some bigwig. It was a woman, and she was like, uh, I think she was like a congresswoman. And he was asking her about, uh, Battelle. And she goes, “Excuse me, what?” He goes, “Battelle Memorial Institute.” She’s like, “Uh, how do you, what’s, I’ve never heard of that.” And he was like, he was like, “Okay, it’s spelled this, go to this website.” She’s like, “I really am going to need to look into that. Thank you for, for, I’m going to look into them, thank you.” And it’s just like, you know, I don’t know, it seems like nobody knows what’s going on with all this stuff. [UAP Gerb, 1:42:58] Yeah, and, and how, how projects and expertise may be delegated to different contractors. I mean, I, I think Battelle has their hands all over this stuff as, as we’ve seen with the Nitinol nickel-titanium alloy studies and, and Project Stork. It, Battelle is just, is just strange. I think, so if I, if I had to wager, like if I had to say the biggest corporations that have their hand in this stuff, it would be Battelle, it would be SAIC, it would be Northrop Grumman, it would be Leidos, which SAIC kind of spun off from in 2013 because SAIC got too big and had too many contracts. It would be Raytheon, uh, Boeing, Booz Allen Hamilton, maybe L3, L3 Harris, yeah, L3 Harris, and, yeah, probably some of the biggest. And then FFRDCs, I’d say the MITRE Corporation. They, they have quite a, a bit of, of knowledge on the MITRE Corporation. The RAND Corporation, uh, the Aerospace Corporation. Here’s what’s pretty interesting. The Aerospace Corporation… [Danny Jones, 1:43:53] There’s so fucking many. [UAP Gerb, 1:43:54] There’s so many. All the DOE labs too, Triad National Security, Oak Ridge, the Center for Naval Analyses, Institute for Defense Analyses. And then you got the UARC: Georgia Tech, Pennsylvania State University, which is really, really interesting, uh, which we’ll talk about in a second. But, the, so, the RAND Corporation was built out of USAF Project RAND, which was, you know, kind of involved with underground constructions. But the Aerospace Corporation as well as the MITRE Corporation as well as BDM, which was a contractor, not an FFRDC, were all started between 1959 and 1960. The exact date that, you know, Philip J. Corso says that, you know, alien technology was starting to be seeded into the military and public. When that began. So it’s just a really interesting lineup of dates, and including Eric Davis said to me, he didn’t name-drop it specifically, but the Aerospace Corporation is the one FFRDC he knew of that engages with this stuff. And on the, on the UARC level, the University Affiliated Research Center, you have stuff like the Applied Physics Laboratory or Applied Research Laboratory, name’s escaping me, from Penn State University. This was started by Dr. Eric A. Walker. Dr. Eric A. Walker is one of the most underrepresented figures in all of UFO, in my opinion. Um, back in 1950, a consultant to the Defense Research Science Board or the R&D Board, Robert Sarbacher, I’m forgetting his official title, but brilliant physicist, brilliant guy. Jesse talks about him all the time. He met with a Canadian radio engineer Wilbert B. Smith and said some pretty outstanding statements such as: flying saucers exist, their modus operandi is unknown, um, but efforts to kind of understand them, reverse engineer them, are headed by Dr. Vannevar Bush, and the matter is top secret to the point it’s classified two points higher than the H-bomb. And so this made its way into an official Canadian Department of Transport memo that Wilbert Smith then created two UFO projects for Canada, Project Magnet and Project Second Story. But UFO researchers like Henry Azadehdel and William Steinman would interview Robert Sarbacher, and he would name one person that was really intimately involved with UFO crash retrieval operations: Dr. Eric A. Walker. And so eventually Dr. Eric A. Walker was contacted by these same researchers, William Steinman and so forth. Dr. Eric A. Walker not only admitted he was at the 1965 Kecksburg, Pennsylvania crash… [Danny Jones, 1:46:10] Mhm. [UAP Gerb, 1:46:10] …um, not only admitted that he knew about the Majestic 12, but also said one of the most interesting quotes in all the subject. When asked about how to gain access to these programs, he said something along the lines of, “What do you know about ESP, extrasensory perception? Unless you know about ESP, you’ll never be involved in these programs.” And this was in 1982 he said that. So, Eric A. Walker, who started the Applied Research Laboratory, Pennsylvania’s UARC, is, is one of the most underrepresented and entwined guys in, in kind of UFO lore of all time. This guy said he was at the ‘65 Kecksburg crash, which is a great case, too. [Danny Jones, 1:46:48] Yeah, it seems, the, the ESP remote viewing, uh, stuff seems to be like the, at, at the foundation of, of all of this stuff, man. And it’s also like, the, the convenient thing about it is it’s the most ridiculous sounding thing. People can, people can like comprehend or like swallow the idea of anti-gravity or like aircraft that aerospace companies are making. But as soon as you start saying like reading minds or like a sixth sense and controlling shit with your mind, people are like, “Bullshit. Like, there’s no fucking way,” which is super, if it is legit, which it, it makes it super convenient. [UAP Gerb, 1:47:25] Yeah, and, you know, I, I think the, I do think because I’ve never seen demonstrations of remote viewing or Psi or psionics, this stuff work, I, I am, I am of the mind also, like many of the skeptics. I, I think there should be demonstrations of such a thing. I’d like to see demonstrations of remote viewing, of psionics and stuff, because, just like you and just like a lot of the public, that is the hardest part for me to wrap my head around. Technological craft being shot down by the Strategic Defense Initiative, sure, that’s, you know, there’s a lot there to digest and research. But stuff like psionics and, and consciousness studies, I, I need to see, to see more to, to understand. It’s so foreign to me. [Danny Jones, 1:48:01] Yeah, have, have you seen that, that movie, um, Mirage Men? [UAP Gerb, 1:48:04] Yeah, about Doty? [Danny Jones, 1:48:05] Yeah. That’s a really good movie. Um, and it’s just like, that, that movie really made me like more skeptical than ever about everything, you know. I, I don’t, I don’t know how accurate that movie is, but it was, uh, you know, it shows you just how much effort that all these companies and, and agencies are willing to go, go through to fuck with people and scramble people’s brains, and manipulate information, and like paint a false narrative. Um, and, you know, that, that is when I started to look at some of these whistleblowers, you know, like, hmm, is this guy legit? Is this guy… [UAP Gerb, 1:48:40] How do you look at them skeptically? [Danny Jones, 1:48:41] How do I know if I want to trust this guy? Um, I mean, a lot of them, man. I, I don’t, I don’t know if I, I mean, Grusch seems pretty legit. [UAP Gerb, 1:48:49] Oh, yeah. [Danny Jones, 1:48:49] But, um, you know, there’s, there’s just, there’s so many of them. And, you know, some of the guys like, I think the, the guy that, that Jesse interviewed, the, um, I think he was a Marine. You mentioned him earlier, he… [UAP Gerb, 1:48:59] Michael. [Danny Jones, 1:49:00] Yeah, Michael. He was the guy who went down into the base and they were like, brought through all these, uh, these like compartments and then they finally got to this area where there was just like crazy thing. He, he explained this craft. [UAP Gerb, 1:49:09] Oh, Weygandt, yeah, Weygandt. Weygandt. Weygandt. [Danny Jones, 1:49:12] Yeah, I think people like them, you know, it’s, it’s, uh, people that like, aren’t selling anything, and that seem to be disconnected from it, they seem to be the most credible, and they’re like kind of like one-off interesting things. But, you know, when you have, like, I, I don’t know about the Jake Barber stuff. I, I don’t know if I can, if I buy that, you know. It’s… it’s just like, if they were, if they were going to the extent to literally put SAP people in a guy’s house and beam fake information into his house and try to confuse him and tell him that some alien civilization is on their way to Earth because their planet ran out of water, and they’re coming here to take over in about 15 years, if they’re willing to go to that extent and send some guy into a mental hospital, just to, uh, just to make sure nobody believes anything he says… [Danny Jones, 1:50:00] …out seeing these aircrafts flying over the mountains. Imagine what the hell they’re doing 60 years later. [Visual, 1:50:00] Danny Jones speaking in a podcast studio with a “Danny Jones Podcast” logo in the top-right corner. [Visual, 1:50:05] UAP Gerb listening and replying. [UAP Gerb, 1:50:06] Absolutely. [Danny Jones, 1:50:06] It’s almost incomprehensible, especially when you add the internet and social media into it. It’s like, Jesus Christ, man. Like, how are we ever going to get to the bottom of any of this stuff? [UAP Gerb, 1:50:16] Well, specifically Doty has been rearing his head recently. He was on some live stream where he said that— [Danny Jones, 1:50:21] Yeah, and that’s— he’s all over Twitter. Yeah, like, like, that’s— [UAP Gerb, 1:50:23] Yeah. [Danny Jones, 1:50:23] —so weird. [UAP Gerb, 1:50:24] He said that he was recruited in 2019 or something to work alongside Lue Elizondo to spread disinfo for Space Force. But then he came out and said that that was AI, and then he said, no, it wasn’t AI, he was talking about something else. So Doty’s always still kind of flirting around. And then there’s, of course, just the other day, that new Wall Street Journal article. Did you— did you see that? It’s a— Sean Kirkpatrick love letter that says we solved all the UFO program. All— everything was just an Air Force hazing ritual, that new— new signees to various Air Force programs when developing stealth technology would be shown pictures of flying saucers, made to sign an NDA and told, oh, we have secret alien technology, and bladdy bladdy blads. [Danny Jones, 1:51:02] Is this the Wall Street Journal thing that, like, talks shit about Lue Elizondo? Cause I saw something on Twitter this morning about, like, some sort of Wall Street Journal article. [UAP Gerb, 1:51:08] Oh, yeah, no, Lue responded to that. [Danny Jones, 1:51:09] That, that— oh, okay. That’s the same article you’re talking about then. [UAP Gerb, 1:51:11] Yeah, the article talks about how, like, the 1967 Malmstrom Air Force Base incident was just like a large EMP device that was brought up to the front gate of Malmstrom AFB, 60 feet in the air and… basically took a— a bunch of Minuteman missile operators by surprise, turning off the ICBMs. Just a— so there’s— there’s… Unfortunately, with this subject, there’s disinformation and— and nonsense, and difficult gates to check, and difficult probabilities to assess at every single corner. It’s— it’s such a hard field to navigate because there has been sophisticated disinformation campaigns since the 1950s. I mean, 1953, right after the sightings of UFOs over Washington, D.C., there was something called the Robertson Panel. The Robertson Panel was supposed to investigate UFOs but had already had a pre-written conclusion to dispel public worry about UFOs and say everything was okay, it’s just there’s no problem here, there’s nothing to see here. Same with the 1969 Condon Committee. [Danny Jones, 1:52:05] Mmm. [UAP Gerb, 1:52:06] And then in the 1960s, you have things like Air Force Regulation 200-2, which restricted civilian and military pilots from reporting UFOs. And on a similar side, you had OPNAV 3820, which restricted navy guys from reporting UFOs with a $10,000 fine and possible imprisonment. So all along the way, you have all these psyops, and you have all these interesting things. And of course, we have AAWSAP and then AATIP… recently those Bigelow Aerospace slides and documents were leaked that talked about AATIP as a white world cover program for AAWSAP. It’s just there’s— there’s so much nonsense to— to look through everywhere. [Danny Jones, 1:52:41] And another interesting thing, bringing up Bigelow Aerospace, is the fact that John— or is it John Bigelow? No, it’s not John Bigelow, what’s his first name? [UAP Gerb, 1:52:48] Robert. [Danny Jones, 1:52:49] Robert Bigelow. Um, Robert Bigelow is so obsessed with the remote viewing, precognitive dream, near-death experience stuff. He does these contests with people, like, to— to do studies on near-death experiences, and like, he’s just spending a ton of money trying to understand this crazy stuff. That’s like, it’s like almost stuff that’s impossible to, like, measure. And it’s like sci-fi, woo-woo stuff that he’s interested in. And he’s like one of the biggest investors in this UFO aerospace stuff. [UAP Gerb, 1:53:20] Yeah, and then according to some of the— the BAASS documents that released from the AAWSAP program, like BAASS was seriously studying the— the Tic Tac seen by David Fravor as a human-made creation and so forth. Did you see some of those? This— this all started with like a— a pretty recent Reddit whistleblower, a guy who came forward on Reddit talking about how the Tic Tac is ours, that Lue Elizondo and Jay Stratton, specifically, are legacy program gatekeepers that… essentially kind of keep emergent technologies from surfacing, and then provided a bunch of BAASS documents. Really, really interesting if you saw that. [Danny Jones, 1:53:52] Mmm, I haven’t seen that, that’s interesting. [UAP Gerb, 1:53:53] Which, of course, on Reddit, you got to be a little careful with any whistleblowers. Same thing with Reddit and 4chan. [Danny Jones, 1:53:58] Healthy people on Reddit. [UAP Gerb, 1:53:59] Yeah, I— Reddit, I— I don’t know why you’d ever post it there, but it’s still… [Danny Jones, 1:54:02] I love Reddit. [UAP Gerb, 1:54:03] Me too. I’m always browsing, but it’s still pretty, pretty interesting. But you never know how to assess that, especially kind of, you’re right, Bigelow is really interesting, how he’s so into more of the metaphysical side. [Danny Jones, 1:54:14] And paranormal stuff. Like, he’s like… [UAP Gerb, 1:54:16] Skinwalker Ranch and werewolves and stuff. [Danny Jones, 1:54:18] Yeah, man. It’s so crazy. [UAP Gerb, 1:54:20] See, that’s the tough stuff for me, cause I like to just stick to military agencies, intelligence agencies, DOE laboratories, contractors, all that. I like to look at stuff you can really kind of itemize and list out and… and draw chains of custody, and— and so forth. So, some of that esoteric stuff, I’ll leave that and the consciousness studies to Jesse, cause he’s got a way better way to talk about that and way better hold on it than me. [Danny Jones, 1:54:43] Yeah. No, it’s— it’s— it’s a lot, man. And that— that’s what I like about your stuff is that you, like, are going to the crazy extent to, like, get as much corroboration for this military stuff and this technology stuff… which is rare to see. And, uh, you know, like, it’s hard. It’s hard to find this stuff, bro. The stuff that you’re, like, that— that… your hour and 45 minute into the history of this case that happened in Peru, freaking decades ago. And you’re, you’re… there’s not many people that are spending that much time and doing that much homework to connect all these dots that you’re connecting. [UAP Gerb, 1:55:20] Well, I always worry— I, sometimes I worry that the stuff will be too boring, but I need to say it because, specifically for Jonathan, like, to arrive at the conclusion that it was NEST that picked him up, DOE NEST, I drew out flight routes from the DOE Cessna jets they owned in 1995-1996 from Sandia National Labs down to Panama Air Force Base and different places around there to see if it was even technically feasible that that could have been NEST. So a lot of these crash retrieval cases, whistleblowers, corporations involved, I— you know, I— I’m not solving anything, I’m trying to— I’m doing the best to— to get to the bottom of it, but they really need to be scrutinized intensely. Cause just re— just reading the testimony and not really arriving at any conclusion or not having any supporting evidence, it— it’s just not enough in my opinion. Just regurgitating the stories isn’t— isn’t enough. [Danny Jones, 1:56:07] Right. And that’s a— it’s a trap that you can get into, and, you know, people— these people that are like posting every day on every social media platform, and, and trying to just talk about like the news of the day, you kind of get bogged down. You kind of like lose your footing in what you’re really trying to— in like the real investigations that you’re doing. You’re obviously spending— obviously these videos aren’t quick for you to make. They probably take you like months to make. [UAP Gerb, 1:56:28] Yeah, that’s why somebody recently called me like a— a podcaster. And I say no, like I— I… fancy myself as like an old-school UFO investigator. Like, I— I want to do the research, I— I want to publish on YouTube. I— you know, if YouTube didn’t exist, maybe I’d write books about stuff. But I— all I want to do is investigate these cases because I do it so I can arrive to my own conclusions. Like, it’s— it’s— I make these projects very selfishly for myself sometimes because a lot of the time when I’m researching or doing the investigation, I can kind of click with various things, and I also jam pack as much fact or as close to fact as humanly possible because when I create more work, I want to be able to reference my previous work that’s incredibly detailed. So if I want to— if I want to reference a contract I covered when talking about Lockheed Martin, I’m going to make darn sure that I talk everything about the contract and the agencies at play, and so forth. [Danny Jones, 1:57:17] Right. You were mentioning, uh, when— earlier when we were talking about Corso and The Day After Roswell, you said there was some writer that was like a Hollywood writer that like made up a bunch of— [UAP Gerb, 1:57:24] Oh, yeah, Bill Birnes. [Danny Jones, 1:57:25] Because the reason I’m curious about that is, is there was, um, a bunch of stuff in that book about like, Velcro and Kevlar, and all these, like, human technologies that were found in that crash. Do you think that was added by this Hollywood guy? Do you think that was real? [UAP Gerb, 1:57:40] Some of them were added, and some of them weren’t. But the distinguishing difference Corso makes in his work is like, um, integrated circuitry and transistors and stuff. He makes the claim that a lot of these stuff weren’t copied. Like, the technology wasn’t basically seeded from crash, but we as humans had our own evolution of these technologies, and an understanding of a different variation of something like the transistor, integrated circuit allowed for further advancements of our technology. Because, I know Jesse talked about it with you, or I can’t remember where Jesse talked about it, but he was skeptical that stuff like transistors were taken from the Roswell craft, when transistors and various concepts for transistors had existed previously. And I tend to agree with that. I think if anything, that technology was likely used to bolster existing technology and not just copied. [Danny Jones, 1:58:27] So you think that that thing was a reproduction vehicle? [UAP Gerb, 1:58:31] No, no, no. So, like I— I think that humans, let’s say, let’s take the transistor for example. If a transistor was pulled from the Roswell craft… [Danny Jones, 1:58:38] Yeah. [UAP Gerb, 1:58:38] …I think that humans were already working on concepts similar to transistors, technology similar to transistors, and pulling like a more advanced transistor type piece of technology off the Roswell crash may have allowed us to make quicker advancements in our current human prosaic technology because we can analyze non-human technology, not inventing technology out of the ether because we just pull it from a non-human source. [Danny Jones, 1:58:59] Right. [UAP Gerb, 1:59:00] So more so just like, um, copy— and not copying somebody else’s homework, but taking influence from other technology on existing technologies. [Danny Jones, 1:59:07] Right. [UAP Gerb, 1:59:07] There’s still a lot of questions with Corso, right? Like we can’t— there’s a lot of rebuttals for a lot of that technology created. I mean, even passive night vision systems, Colonel John Alexander, who I have my problems with… [Danny Jones, 1:59:16] Yeah, night vision was another— was another technology they got from the crash. [UAP Gerb, 1:59:19] Well, Corso’s— Corso said that there was an eye film on the beings, and that’s where passive night vision systems were— were pulled from. That’s a— that’s a very big, big claim. What’s interesting to me about this is in— in the manuscript, it was just made for his grandchildren. Right, it wasn’t made for public consumption. It was made for his family, so… [Danny Jones, 1:59:37] Mmm. [UAP Gerb, 1:59:37] It’s not like he’s trying to sell this story to a huge world because there’s massive differences in the manuscript versus the book. The book talks, the first chapter, about Corso sitting like Isaac Newton under a tree, like, thinking about the Roswell crash, basically placing himself there. No, the manuscript is super dry. It repeats itself dozens if not hundreds of times, but it just is, is, is, basically Corso’s words, act… [Visual, 2:00:00] UAP Gerb and Danny Jones in the Danny Jones Podcast studio [UAP Gerb, 2:00:00] actually from Corso, and not with added fluff. Like, in the book, in the book there’s one like senior intelligence or DOD official that Corso basically convinces to, you know, perform a self-inflicted gunshot wound with. Like, Corso acts so tough to do that, that’s not in the manuscript, that’s fluff nonsense to make something sell to Hollywood. So there’s a lot of added information that I, I really understand why people take Corso so skeptically if all they’ve read is The Day After Roswell. [Danny Jones, 2:00:27] Right. Right. Right. What what is what is your take on John Alexander? [UAP Gerb, 2:00:30] Uh, I John Alexander, I don’t know, he, what I what I think the most interesting example of where John Alexander was present present was 1985 at the Advanced Theoretical Physics working group that was held at BDM’s facility in McLean, Virginia. Right? So this was an event that Okey Shannon, if you’ve heard of Okey Shannon, he was director of like special projects at Los Alamos National Labs, and he is mentioned multiple times in the Wilson Davis interview. In 1985, he went to attend this event at BDM McLean. Uh, this event was classified using DOE controls, right? Which was really interesting. A lot of it was ran by John Alexander and, at that time, new BDM board member Albert Stubblebine, who had just left US Army INSCOM for BDM in 1984. At this conference, there was so much talk about UFO reverse engineering programs, you know, conducted through speeches and organization by Alexander. Including a massive mention of a, I think it says like huge engineering project under Bobby Ray Inman. And of course, that’s somebody we talked about… [Danny Jones, 2:01:34] He’s the tech guy, right? [UAP Gerb, 2:01:36] No, Bobby Ray Inman is the NRO guy, he’s the CIA guy, he’s the NSA guy, he’s the SAIC guy, he’s the Wackenhut guy. [Danny Jones, 2:01:42] Oh, wow. Okay. [UAP Gerb, 2:01:43] What, he’s, he’s one of the main villains of this, of this entire story I’d say. Something I forgot to tell you about is in 1989, he talked to NASA mission specialist Bob Oechsler. Bob Oechsler called him, uh, somehow they work, they got in a relationship and were talking to each other. And Bob Oechsler basically asked if recovered UFOs would ever become available for technological research. And what’s interesting is this phone call is recorded. So you can actually listen to it. And Bobby Ray Inman does the whole, “I know nothing about that,” but directs Oechsler to current CIA DS&T, Directorate of Science and Technology, deputy director Everett Hineman. Says, “If you want to know about it, go talk to Hineman.” So Oechsler talks about Hineman, Hineman freaks out, says, “No, no, don’t talk to me. Nothing there.” Hineman was also director of the NRO program B and was actually the first, one of the first heads of Pine Gap when it opened up in the ’70s. In 2023, a UFO researcher, RGH UFOs, met, emailed Hineman. And I wish he would get back to me, but he’s never responded to me. And Hineman alluded that he did, in fact, work in UFO programs because he said, “I’m no longer in that area of research.” But back to Inman, Inman also pointed Bob Oechsler, NASA mission specialist, to former director of Naval Intelligence Sumner Shapiro. Sumner Shapiro was also a BDM board member. But Sumner Shapiro met with Bob Oechsler, and Sumner Shapiro told Bob Oechsler that not only had he studied craft up close, but they were shipped between different DOE laboratories and some of them featured interlocking components that had to be assembled and disassembled in certain ways if you’re going to gain access to the craft. So Bobby Ray Inman, you know, points Bob Oechsler to all sorts of these guys. Bobby Ray Inman is former director of NRO, CIA, all this. But then in 2020, and this echoes the present very well, Bobby Ray Inman appeared on Project Unity, Jay Anderson’s podcast, and said he had found explanations, conventional explanations for every single UFO sighting. Which is nonsense to, to, to take that stance that every single UFO sighting you’ve ever cracked. Sounds like Sean Kirkpatrick. So this guy in 1989 is pointing Bob Oechsler to first-hand UFO retrieval knowledge people, and then he is walking those statements back. And Bobby Ray Inman has a very illustrious history. He was also on the board for Wackenhut, which is a private security agency mentioned by so many whistleblowers and including performing security at Area 51 S4. [Danny Jones, 2:03:58] Yeah. I learned all about Wackenhut when I had that dude in here that made the Danny Casolaro documentary. [UAP Gerb, 2:04:02] Really? [Danny Jones, 2:04:03] Have you seen that documentary? [UAP Gerb, 2:04:03] Uh-uh. [Danny Jones, 2:04:04] Holy shit, bro. You got to watch that. It is, uh, they talk all about like, it’s it’s called The Octopus Murders. [UAP Gerb, 2:04:13] You know what? I can’t believe I haven’t watched The Octopus Murders yet. So many people have told me to watch it. [Danny Jones, 2:04:16] Oh my god, it is amazing. It, they talk, they, it basically explains how like all of these things are connected with Wackenhut, the CIA, and all of these different scandals that have ever happened from like Watergate to like Iran-Contra and all this stuff. It’s all part of this big fucking crazy deep state blob Octopus, uh, and all these tentacles are attached to one another. And Danny Casolaro got to the bottom of this thing, and, uh, he was found, uh, he was found with his wrists slashed in a bathtub in a hotel room. Yeah, and, uh, it’s it’s an amazing documentary. And they, they go deep into the Wackenhut stuff. [UAP Gerb, 2:04:59] Well, you know, Wackenhut, Wackenhut even has ties in in the subject we’re talking about now with the Department of Energy. Uh, I I mentioned the Department of Energy’s special response teams that are like really highly armed guys at, at DOE national labs that, you know, maybe they transport nuclear materials, maybe they transport radiological materials, maybe sometimes they transport UFOs. But these guys were trained by Wackenhut. And so they get Wackenhut training. Uh, Wackenhut worked closely alongside Indusec, or Industrial Security Personnel, which I think industrial security personnel are the actual armed guards and so forth that will be inside of a UFO facility guarding the USAP program locations and so forth. So, I think Wackenhut is intimately entwined, and Bobby Ray Inman, he was a board member of Wackenhut. [Danny Jones, 2:05:42] It’s interesting he said that, uh, he was the guy who said that a bunch of this stuff can be explained away with a conventional explanation. [UAP Gerb, 2:05:47] All. [Danny Jones, 2:05:48] All. I think some of them definitely can. [UAP Gerb, 2:05:49] Yeah, agree. [Danny Jones, 2:05:50] I think, I think, I think even the, the, the stuff that was leaked by the, the 2017 New York Times stuff. Like, the footage of the, the, I forget if it’s the Go Fast or the Gimbal. [UAP Gerb, 2:06:01] The Gimbal or Go Fast. [Danny Jones, 2:06:02] There’s one of them where they basically, it shows the thing flying across the water, with the water in the background. [UAP Gerb, 2:06:06] Yeah, Go Fast. [Danny Jones, 2:06:07] Yeah, and he’s like, “Whoa, are you seeing that?” or whatever. [Danny Jones, 2:06:12] You can easily explain that with, uh, cause the, what people don’t understand is, that object is moving in one direction and the plane is moving in the other direction. And you have the parallax of the water underneath it, to make it look like it’s, it looks like it’s going 10 times faster than, it could be a fucking bird flying across the surface of the water. [UAP Gerb, 2:06:29] I, I agree with you. I, I don’t think those videos are the cream of the crop, definitive, anything. I, I, I, in fact, I think that video and picture evidence is some of the, the least compelling stuff we can get. I’m, I’m with you. The debate still rages on about those videos. It’s 2025. Those videos were released in 2017 and there’s still been no progress made on a single one of them. [Danny Jones, 2:06:48] Right. [UAP Gerb, 2:06:48] Besides maybe just the Go Fast and, kind of downgrading it to possible parallax effect. [Danny Jones, 2:06:53] Right. [UAP Gerb, 2:06:54] What would be a treat is, if you’re familiar with the whistleblower Matt Brown… [Danny Jones, 2:06:57] No. [UAP Gerb, 2:06:57] …getting… Oh, okay. So Matt Brown wrote the, uh, Immaculate Constellation report. [Danny Jones, 2:07:01] Oh, yes. Okay. [UAP Gerb, 2:07:03] Some of those, in that Immaculate Constellation report, are… [Danny Jones, 2:07:05] For people that don’t know what the Immaculate Constellation, Constellation report is, can you like summarize? [UAP Gerb, 2:07:09] Okay. So Immaculate Constellation, according to Matt Brown, who, you know, I put a lot of faith in, was a reactionary special access program formed I think 2017, 2018, to kind of catalog various morphologies, sightings, databases of, of UFO sightings. And there’s been a lot of discussion that everything Matt Brown found was in a Schriever Wargames file. I, I highly doubt that. But within the Immaculate Constellation report, there’s detailing of, you know, videos and imagery from satellites of morphologies of craft from everything to triangles hovering over the Indo-Pacific, captured by INDOPACOM, to saucer, giant saucers resting in clouds, almost like camouflaging itself. The interesting thing about this report is it talks specifically about reproduction vehicles. It once said alien reproduction vehicles but I think that was taken out. So, yeah, Matt Brown stumbled upon this database and created the Immaculate Constellation report, which was presented to, uh, the House in November of 2024. Uh, Jeremy Corbell, I think it was his report, but Shellenberger, Michael Shellenberger presented it. [Danny Jones, 2:08:08] Right. [UAP Gerb, 2:08:08] And Nancy Mace entered it without, you know, Jeremy’s page. A lot of drama there. But it’s a really interesting report. And, uh, of course, Matt Brown just did a three-part interview series with Jeremy Corbell. And recently, has started making some scathing tweets directly accusing Pax River out there, near Virginia, of, of having hangars owned by Amentum, I think it is, uh, that house some recovered craft. [Danny Jones, 2:08:31] Really? [UAP Gerb, 2:08:32] Mm-hmm. [Danny Jones, 2:08:33] Wow. [UAP Gerb, 2:08:34] So, let’s, let’s see that dang satellite footage of that saucer resting in the clouds, because that’s the type of, of, of footage that’s, that’s going to be compelling. You know, recently there was the Lue Elizondo kerfuffle of presenting the irrigation circles. Did you see that? [Danny Jones, 2:08:48] No. [UAP Gerb, 2:08:49] Oh my goodness. So, at, the UAP… [Danny Jones, 2:08:52] Oh, yes, I did see it. This was at South by Southwest? [UAP Gerb, 2:08:55] No, no, no. This was, uh, this was early May. [Danny Jones, 2:08:58] Oh, okay. [UAP Gerb, 2:08:59] Um, there was a UAP Disclosure Fund meeting and I think it was Admiral Tim Gallaudet, Lue Elizondo, Chris Mellon, and, uh, Eric Davis speaking. And there were some really interesting things said, such as Eric Davis talking about four types of non-human species, and, as well as most retrievals being maritime retrievals, which would then, uh, create a whole new world of investigation for us in Neuro. And then, uh, Elizondo gets on stage, says, “Hey, I was given a picture by a pilot this morning taken at this elevation,” and it’s just two elevation circles that has a, a small allusion of, of being like a saucer hanging over a flat land. That, that’s the kind of stuff that actively hurts the topic very badly. [Danny Jones, 2:09:37] Yeah. That’s not a good look. What, did people call him out on it? [UAP Gerb, 2:09:41] Yeah, and, uh, there’s a, yeah, it was, well, it was debunked within like an hour. [Danny Jones, 2:09:46] (laughs) [UAP Gerb, 2:09:48] And, you know, props to, props to the people who, who debunked that. But, I just, I don’t think that if that image wasn’t properly vetted, that ever should have been posted, you know? [Danny Jones, 2:09:56] Yeah. [UAP Gerb, 2:09:57] Uh, because he, he said he was given the photograph that morning or the night beforehand. [Visual, 2:10:00] UAP Gerb is speaking in a podcast studio with the Danny Jones Podcast logo in the corner. [UAP Gerb, 2:10:00] …had time to vet it. But if he can’t vet it, and Eric Davis has just talked about four species non-humans and maritime retrievals, please, le- le- let’s not, let’s not show that. Because that’s just crap evidence to, to begin with. Videos and stuff really don’t, don’t push the, push the envelope. There’s endless debate over pictures and sightings. And it’s a huge problem because there had been previous pictures posted by Lou of a chandelier in Hungary. Do you remember that photo? [Danny Jones, 2:10:26] No. [UAP Gerb, 2:10:27] It was a reflection of a chandelier he initially called a mothership. So we got to stop with those photos, because it’s not helping anyone. [Visual, 2:10:34] Camera cuts to Danny Jones resting his hand on his chin. [Danny Jones, 2:10:34] Have you seen the video, I’m sure you’ve seen the video of the, what, what did they call it, the, the, the one, the one that was in Iraq? [UAP Gerb, 2:10:41] Oh, the Mosul Orb? Or the jellyfish? [Danny Jones, 2:10:44] The jellyfish. [UAP Gerb, 2:10:45] The jellyfish. Yeah. [Danny Jones, 2:10:45] Yeah. The jellyfish looks like a cluster of balloons. [UAP Gerb, 2:10:48] Gosh, yeah, I, it’s, it’s, so hard to tell with, because, Jeremy Corbell posted the, or said, the full video shows the thing rising out of the water. [Danny Jones, 2:10:57] Oh, yeah? [UAP Gerb, 2:10:58] And if that exists, that dispels the whole balloon narrative, but until we’re presented with that, a, a cluster of balloons or other prosaic explanations are, are perfectly reasonable. [Danny Jones, 2:11:08] Yeah. We had, what’s his name, the NASA engineer Kevin Knuth, or he was, he wasn’t an engineer… [UAP Gerb, 2:11:13] Oh, Kevin Knuth? He wasn’t an engineer. He’s a New York University physicist. [Danny Jones, 2:11:18] Physicist. Right. And he worked, and he worked for NASA for a while, I think. And he was telling me the whole story about the, uh, the Japanese airliner… [UAP Gerb, 2:11:25] Oh, 62- 16- 8- 8- 1628? [Danny Jones, 2:11:29] Yes, exactly. And that whole story of, of that guy, that guy’s testimony of that giant freaking ship the size of like 15 football fields pulling up right next to him. That’s bizarre. And there was also a radar guy, apparently, that like, corroborated all of it. [UAP Gerb, 2:11:43] Cos you remember the, the pilot of, uh, Japan Airlines flight, I think this was in 1986, said that huge craft basically orbited around his plane at insane speeds, as well. [Danny Jones, 2:11:51] Yeah. And he tried to take a picture of it and the thing just disappeared in an instant? [UAP Gerb, 2:11:53] Yeah. And, you’re right, it was tracked on radar as well. I can’t remember the, I’m sure the debunker explanation is that it was Venus, or something that the, the, the… [Danny Jones, 2:12:01] It was Venus? [UAP Gerb, 2:12:02] Well, you know, the, the joke here is that so many debunkers, when, when trained pilots say they see strange lights, the debunker explanation is just Venus or something. But, I, that’s such a compelling case. There’s also a Spanish airliner case in the ’70s of an actual plane, a commercial airliner that was grounded due to UFO sightings in the plane’s pathway. I can’t remember what the flight is, it’s like TK something, but that’s another really intriguing story that was also captured on radar. That sort of multi-sensor detection is, is, is really what, what can help push the envelope. And Kevin Knuth is brilliant, he talks about that case in his paper, Estimating Flight Characteristics for Anomalous Unidentified Phenomena, or something like that. It came out in 2022, 2021, 2022. But he also talks about some of like the physics and experienced G-forces by craft in that sighting, in the Graham Bethune encounter, I think it was, and then the, the Tic Tac in 2004, which he estimated, when the Tic Tac, um, dec- or, uh, changed from a high elevation to just about sea water, it could’ve, uh, experienced up to 5500 Gs of accelerative force, which is crazy. [Danny Jones, 2:13:02] Yeah, there’s a lot, I mean, there’s a lot of sightings from pilots and, and airplane sightings from, from all around the world. It’s, uh, and then, you know, another thing I wonder about is like, how many, how many, like, going to this underwater USO thing, like you never hear about submarines witnessing anything. [UAP Gerb, 2:13:17] That… [Danny Jones, 2:13:17] Well, submarines also don’t have windows, which is convenient. [UAP Gerb, 2:13:20] Yeah, but what about the radar? That… [Danny Jones, 2:13:22] Like, they have all kinds of, I’m sure they have all kinds of, of, of sensors that can detect anything around them, and sonar, and, and all this stuff. And they, they spend so much time underwater, and there’s so many submarines. Annie Jacobsen, when she was on here last, she was showing us a map of all the submarine highways around the world, for all the countries. And, between the US, Russia, and China, it is just like, the oceans are littered with submarine high-, nuclear submarines patrolling everywhere. So, um, there’s got to be tons of reports from these nuclear subs, but, which obviously would never probably leak into the public. [UAP Gerb, 2:13:55] Right. And what’s interesting is, you know, I think you and Jesse talked about it, Robert Hastings and UFOs and Nukes, and how UFOs swarm nuclear sites. It stands to reason that UFOs would swarm nuclear subs. [Danny Jones, 2:14:06] Of course. And they’re loaded with warheads. [UAP Gerb, 2:14:08] And there’s a lot of, of, of, so, in Project Blue Book, there’s a great document, it’s like “The Unexplained of Blue Book”, and it’s just all the really unexplained sightings that had no real conclusion, and some of them are, of course, maritime and, uh, USO sightings. And some of these are like Tic Tacs hovering above the water in 1950. And I think Kevin Knuth talked about a New Zealand destroyer case, just off of New Zealand, I think it was a, I think it was actually a Kiwi ship and not an American ship, that encountered like a huge saucer-type craft that passed very fast under the destroyer and knocked out the power. [Danny Jones, 2:14:40] Oh, yeah, I think I remember him saying that. [UAP Gerb, 2:14:43] Yeah. [Danny Jones, 2:14:44] Yeah. [UAP Gerb, 2:14:45] And then, there, I’ve talked to some, uh… [Danny Jones, 2:14:48] Submarines have got to know something. Sorry, continue. [UAP Gerb, 2:14:50] Oh, no. I’ve talked to some former Navy guys who have talked about like, uh, they’ve mentioned aircraft carrier-sized USOs. And this is a guy I plan, I’m not going to spoil it, because I plan to talk to him, kind of, soon on, on one of my programs. But, that, I really hope he talks about that, because that is intriguing. Aircraft carrier-sized USO. But you were talking about NASA. [Danny Jones, 2:15:08] Yeah, I was going to say, I was going to say, Na-, you know, NASA has got to have, there’s got to be some, you know, I know NASA is a very public-facing, uh, organization, but like, you would imagine that, if NASA’s been involved in so much since the moon landing and all that stuff, that, there’s got to be some sort of interest or investigations into this stuff from, the, people at NASA. [UAP Gerb, 2:15:33] Well, plenty of NASA astronauts have had, uh, interest. Gordon Cooper, and Edgar Mitchell. I mean, Gordon Cooper himself discussed, even before he was, uh, on NASA flights, kind of, chasing UFOs in a, in a jet, uh, while in service. And there’s, there’s, I can’t recall them all off the top of my head, but there are stories of like lunar, or, Apollo astronauts on the way or returning from the moon seeing strange craft, or strange craft following them. There’s allegedly a, a tape taken by one of the Apollo astronauts. There’s the testimony of, of, and this is a famous Greer testimony, of Donna Hare. She was a former NASA employee who claimed that NASA would airbrush UFOs out of various satellite imagery or space imagery. But, I, I agree that already, it somehow it seems like NASA’s almost disconnect-, NASA feels a little bit to me like it’s a little bit left out of the club. NASA’s pretty underfunded, NASA doesn’t have some of the most cutting-edge technology. I, I think, at least to me, it, it seems like a lot of the cutting-edge technology and actual craft, materials, are not relegated to space exploration and seeing Mars. It’s relegated to tactical reconnaissance. It’s relegated to asymmetrical, uh, warfare advantages, and that stuff’s going to be kept in the deep black of the military and intelligence community. [Danny Jones, 2:16:43] Yeah, I think, who was it that was telling me, I think it was Jason Jorjani was telling me a story of a guy who, I think he worked at NASA, but was like, shown something, um, and then he got like, hit, on his bike. He got killed, like, riding his bike, like, after that. [UAP Gerb, 2:16:59] Oh, I’m trying to, god, who was that? [Danny Jones, 2:17:01] I think we talked about it with Kevin Knuth, as well. [Danny Jones, 2:17:05] There was some guy, or, no, maybe Jesse talked about it with Rogan, too. There was some guy who basically was like, shown photo-, oh, this has something to do with the moon. He was shown something on the moon… [UAP Gerb, 2:17:15] Anom- Oh, Karl Wolfe, that’s Karl Wolfe. [Danny Jones, 2:17:17] Karl Wolfe. Yes, yes. [UAP Gerb, 2:17:18] Karl Wolfe, yeah. [Danny Jones, 2:17:19] And he was killed? [UAP Gerb, 2:17:20] Yeah, and I think Joe made a joke like, “doesn’t look like he biked enough” because he was, uh, a little bit portly… [Danny Jones, 2:17:23] He was super fat. Yeah, yeah, yeah. [UAP Gerb, 2:17:25] Yeah, Karl Wolfe talked about anomalies on the moon and how, uh, I think what they spoke about is Karl Wolfe was privy to some of these images and was like, gobsmacked and so excited for the upcoming news… [Danny Jones, 2:17:36] Because he saw, he was like, oh my god, this is going to be released, and it never got released. [UAP Gerb, 2:17:40] Yeah, that’s, you know, that’s another Greer whistleblower. I, maybe there is some interesting stuff on the moon. I know Jesse and Joe were talking about the dark side of the moon, how, uh, you know, the moon’s tidally locked, so a lot of the time, the dark side faces away from us. But also, there was a recent, it was a guy on Sean Ryan, it was a recent general, I can’t remember what branch of service, but was talking about how the Chinese are mining Helium-3 on the moon. [Danny Jones, 2:18:05] Oh, really? [UAP Gerb, 2:18:05] For power sources. That’s crazy. [Danny Jones, 2:18:08] We haven’t had a, we haven’t, the US hasn’t had a person beyond low earth orbit since like 1972. [UAP Gerb, 2:18:13] Right, why? [Danny Jones, 2:18:14] That’s on that. [UAP Gerb, 2:18:15] Unless we have ARVs that are traversing our solar system, which is possible. Cuz you know like Gary McKinnon, right? He’s the NASA, he’s the NASA hacker in 2002, I think it was. [Danny Jones, 2:18:24] He’s the guy who lives outside the States now? [UAP Gerb, 2:18:25] Yes. He hacked into various DoD databases and found like a non-terrestrial officers list, and, uh, I, I can’t remember the ship, but he, he saw an image of like a huge saucer-shaped… no, I’m sorry, cigar-shaped craft in front of one of our, uh, Jovian planets. So, who know-, you know, there’s, there’s the whole secret space program stuff, the SSP with like Corey Goode and the 20 and back, that’s all really, kind of, out there stuff that I don’t really subscribe to, but, you know, maybe there is, maybe there have been ARVs that have been taken for a spin outside of, uh, outside of Earth. [Danny Jones, 2:18:59] Yeah, the moon stuff is odd. The moon stuff is odd. The, the, the moon landing stuff is really odd too, because, uh, I know it’s, it’s frowned upon to, to question the moon landings. [UAP Gerb, 2:19:08] Yeah. [Danny Jones, 2:19:10] But like, there’s a lot of really big questions that, like, need answers about the moon landing, like, like, how did they, how did they lose all of the data on the moon landing stuff? They, they claim that if you ask Chat GPT, Chat GPT will tell you that the response or the, the answer to why they lost all of that information and that data is because they accidentally overwrote their hard drives. Like, they used those hard drives and then they, to rewrite stuff, and they accidentally like erased it or whatever. So, so, now we have none of that technology. [UAP Gerb, 2:19:42] That seems like a “I forgot my homework” type statement as a kid. [Danny Jones, 2:19:45] Yeah. Yeah. It is, and it’s like, it’s also the only, it’s also the only technological feat in any sort of, uh, industry or any sort of technology that hasn’t evan-, advanced or like, ex- [Visual, 2:20:00] Danny Jones and UAP Gerb in a podcast studio [Danny Jones, 2:20:00] …essentially grown since it was first implemented. [UAP Gerb, 2:20:03] Right. Right. Yeah, cuz we were talking about the DSRVs, right? The Deep Submergence Rescue Vehicles? Those had, when they were created in, I think, 19, when they were operational in 1972, they had better computing systems than even the latest Apollo lunar modules. So, there wasn’t the best and brightest technology and innovation in these Apollo systems. It was pretty mundane technology that never seemed to, to innovate. [Danny Jones, 2:20:25] Yeah, and I’ve never heard, I even asked Kevin about this when I was on, when we were on here, I asked about that, that Van Allen radiation belt stuff, and like, you know, is it is it really that toxic or, you know, have we not been able to send anyone through that Van Allen radiation belt? And I haven’t heard anyone give me a reasonable explanation as to why and how we can get through that. And, and like why. Cuz apparently like the Russians sent like a dog through the Van Allen radiation belt and it died like a day after. [UAP Gerb, 2:20:49] The claim there is that the Van Allen radiation belt like destroy, either keeps, either destroyed the footage that we had of the moon landing… [Danny Jones, 2:20:56] Oh, yeah. [UAP Gerb, 2:20:57] …or, or it kind of keeps us close to home, basically. It’s toxic for a human to pass through, which it’s, it’s the latter. Okay, it’s… [Danny Jones, 2:21:04] Well, it’s, it’s toxic, like, alleged, according to um, this guy we had in here, Bart Sibrel, who has all these documentaries about how the moon landing was a hoax… [UAP Gerb, 2:21:10] Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. [Danny Jones, 2:21:12] …he claims that no human can survive passing through that Van Allen radiation belt. [UAP Gerb, 2:21:16] Unless we have shielded ARV materials. [Danny Jones, 2:21:19] Right. Right. Right, and, unless we have shielded ARV materials. But then he was like, we we we would have been going to the moon, you know, ever since then, but we but we haven’t. And we keep saying, every single president, every single president has said since Bush, or since, since, since that happened, I think Jimmy Carter was the first one who said we’re gonna go, we’re gonna go back to the moon. And then, you know, even Trump has said multiple times, we’re gonna go back to the moon. But the moon landing, the moon missions keep getting pushed back, pushed back, and it just recently got pushed back again from, it was supposed to happen September this year, and now they’re saying it’s going to happen like June of next year. [UAP Gerb, 2:21:46] Remember we were supposed to go to Mars in 2025? [Danny Jones, 2:21:48] Mhm. [UAP Gerb, 2:21:49] And even back in the, the ’60s and ’70s, out of the RAND Corporation and stuff, there were all sorts of plans for lunar bases, and like lunar tunnel systems for trains. Huge plans, but none of these, there were supposed to be maglev systems underground on the moon, like, maglev trains, and none of this ever transpired. It, it is curious. The, the whole, the whole moon is, the Apollo missions, there’s a lot to chew on there, and I’ve never really taken the time to sit through and sift through it, but it’s so interesting. [Danny Jones, 2:22:18] In that period of time, in the middle of the Cold War, was when the United States was, there was so much deception, and so much shit happening around that, I mean, the Kennedy assassination cover up, you know, Watergate, you know, MKUltra, that was, that was all happening at the same exact time the moon missions happened. [UAP Gerb, 2:22:40] Oh, yeah. [Danny Jones, 2:22:44] So, and, you know, it’s just, there’s so many questions, and, you know, the fact that anyone who questions it is, is automatically painted as a fool. [UAP Gerb, 2:22:52] Yeah, anything should be questioned. One of the, speaking about exploring our, our own solar system or our own moon, what, what we talked about the, the Fluxliner alien reproduction vehicle, I forgot to mention, one of the, the interesting things Brad Sorensen said is that some of these suit and ties showing off the Fluxliner claimed that the Fluxliner had been taken to various places in our solar system, cuz this thing flew at basically the speed of light using zero point energy systems, and that, our own solar system was devoid of, of other intelligent life, which, probably. But, so that’s interesting. So there’s always a world, there’s always a possible world in which either Gary McKinnon’s, uh, non-terrestrial officers or the Fluxliner alien reproduction vehicles are zipping by Jupiter or Saturn. Which, gosh, that would be intriguing. [Danny Jones, 2:23:37] Yeah, Catherine Austin Fitts is so, she, uh, sent me this book called, uh, I think it’s called The Rings of Saturn. Have you heard of this? [UAP Gerb, 2:23:43] I think so, yeah. [Danny Jones, 2:23:45] Where allegedly, like back in the, I forget which year it was, but like, there’s a photo of the first probe that got like really close to Saturn, took a photo of the, uh, the ring around Saturn. And the, I haven’t read the book yet, but, but apparently the claim of the book is that they found like some sort of weird looking vehicle that was like parked inside of the ring of Saturn. [UAP Gerb, 2:24:03] Whoa. [Danny Jones, 2:24:05] I… [UAP Gerb, 2:24:06] I, I think I’ve, I’ve heard this. I think I’ve heard this in passing, but I don’t really know anything about it. Wow. [Danny Jones, 2:24:12] Yeah. It’s just interesting, someone like her, who’s so smart, right, and she’s, uh, you know, she’s a math wizard, you know, she she she looks at this stuff and she’s been in the government, and she’s she’s a very reasonable, rational, rational, uh, smart human being, also like believes in all this stuff like, you know, taking all this stuff from the Nazis and and uh creating a breakaway civilization of bankers trying to get off the the freaking Earth in case something happens, and um, you know, all this UFO stuff, it’s like a, it’s a weird thing for someone like her to be interested in, but like, you know, she’s a very credible person. [UAP Gerb, 2:24:54] Yeah, and she’s really hip to the kind of UFO lore and the UFO subject. She had like a series of 20, like 25 interviews over the years on Dark Journalist. And I watched every… [Danny Jones, 2:25:04] Oh, really? [UAP Gerb, 2:25:05] Yeah. Oh, she has, like, over 20. Everything from like the UFO economy 1.0 to 3.0 to so many things, and she’s really dialed in with a lot of these subjects. [Danny Jones, 2:25:15] She blew my mind when she was explaining, uh, like Elon’s DOGE. Uh, when she was explaining like like Elon created DOGE to find all this waste, fraud, and abuse, right? But he’s getting, he’s taking, uh, auditing like the IRS, Social Security, the HHS, and not looking at the black hole of the trillions of dollars missing from the Pentagon. But like, and, and her, what she was saying, was that Elon’s deliberately trying to like get all of this data from the IRS and the HHS because it’s, you know, you could have all the data on all the human beings inside of the United States and integrate that with xAI and Palantir AI, and Elon’s been, you know, on record talking about how he loves China’s WeChat. You know, the WeChat is the… [UAP Gerb, 2:26:02] Oh, yeah. [Danny Jones, 2:26:03] …everything, it’s everything, it’s basically payment, social media, texting, like it’s all, is all funneled through this centralized WeChat. [UAP Gerb, 2:26:10] Mhm. [Danny Jones, 2:26:11] And, and, um, the fact that he’s, you know, talked so highly of the WeChat thing and how he wants to create, turn Twitter into his own WeChat, and simultaneously working with Palantir and integrating all this stuff, and, and using all of the HHS, Social Security, and, uh, IRS data to integrate it with the AI is, and working with Palantir who just got like like $800 million contract two weeks ago, uh, I don’t think there’s any, uh, optimistic outcome of doing something like that. [UAP Gerb, 2:26:40] No. [Danny Jones, 2:26:44] And he was also, uh, this recent, uh, falling out with him and Trump. [UAP Gerb, 2:26:49] Oh my goodness, yeah. [Danny Jones, 2:26:50] Apparently had something to do with, uh, Elon really wanted this specific person to be the head of NASA, and Trump said, “No, I don’t want that guy to be the head of NASA.” Cuz he said something was fishy about him or something. [UAP Gerb, 2:27:00] Well, that, that Twitter beef came out of nowhere. That was really shocking to see because then, of course, uh, Elon implicated Trump in the Epstein files, and they said that’s why they’re not released, and everything. [Danny Jones, 2:27:09] And he deleted the tweet too. [UAP Gerb, 2:27:11] Yeah. Things got ugly really fast. And, so you’re saying you’re not optimistic about, uh, this kind of DOGE platform, A, because we would lead towards a, even closer towards a CCP national security state with that centralized processing, and, B, that probably wouldn’t even get to the bottom of where these dollars are going. [Danny Jones, 2:27:29] Right. Right, yeah, apparently, apparently all, you know, all the places that Elon was looking for waste, fraud, and abuse pales in comparison to what the Pentagon is missing in trillions of dollars. Like why didn’t he go look for that? [UAP Gerb, 2:27:40] Because those are funneled into black holes. And there’s so, one of the things I, I really want to understand that I really can’t for UFO programs, which, you know, I’m interested in Catherine Austin Fitts’s interest in, is the creative accounting around them. You know what, I, I think, I, I can’t definitively prove it, but I think there are numerous vehicles in which to fund these programs, like we talked about earlier, IDIQ, indefinite delivery, indefinite quantity contracts, IDC contracts, sole-source contracts, cash transactions, skimming off contracts, overcharging, all sort, siphoning off funds, leftover funds end of fiscal year. The amount of creative accounting must be a nightmare to, to try and track any of it. That’s why it would be great if we had a UFO whistleblower that actually worked in legacy program accounting. That’d be a, a couple, some people’s dream. That’d be Catherine Austin, Catherine Austin Fitts’s dream. [Danny Jones, 2:28:31] Yeah. Yeah, for sure. It would be. But like, again, it’s, it’s refreshing to see somebody like her looking at it from a, looking at it through the lens of accounting, you know? [UAP Gerb, 2:28:39] Yeah, and it, it needs to be done because especially for the subject of like deep underground military bases, back in the ’60s and ’70s, the US Army Corps of Engineers, like we talked about, published a ton of studies on deep underground facilities and would often go through cost evaluation and, and, and discussed level costs and kind of come to conclusions that these bases could be constructed, they could be constructed in pre-existing cavities without, too much expenditure out of, out of the budget. And there’s also discussion that some of these tunnels between these underground bases are use, are of course cored out via tunnel boring machines, TBMs. But that a lot of these projects, to find these dollars, we might have to look at the Bureau of Reclamation that have dug out tunnels all across the United States for waterways, for aqueduct, aqueducts, etc., and how these might have some clandestine secondary operations to track those moneys. [Danny Jones, 2:29:26] And like one of the questions with these, these underground bases and these bunkers that people are building, like if there, if there’s some sort of like catastrophe, and that’s the main idea of people that build their own bunkers, is like how, how are you going to power it once you run out of fuel? Like, like, do they have some sort of like crazy special energy? [UAP Gerb, 2:29:43] They could. Also self-contained nuclear reactors, but I mean if that ever happened, you know, you and I’d be screwed. I, I live in, in Denver. There’s a massive FEMA continuity of government site under Denver. [Danny Jones, 2:29:53] Oh, yeah. [UAP Gerb, 2:29:54] And I’m not going in there. There’s Mount Weather. Like, we’re not going in there. All, all of these sites… [UAP Gerb, 2:30:00] …a lot of them are for continuity of government, but then there’s deeper layers. There’s there’s huge SIFs existing around. And a lot of them are provable, for example, the Manzano storage area at Sandia National Labs is an acknowledged SIF. An area under Los Alamos National Labs, also in New Mexico, is an acknowledged SIF. And then there are, uh, the Army Corps of Engineers. There’s historical conspiracies of, uh, massive underground facilities below China Lake, right, in California, uh, Naval Air Weapons Center, China Lake, really creepy place. And places like Yuma Proving Ground in Arizona. And back in the ’60s, the US Army Corps of Engineers did a ton of deep basing site studies, and, and, and showed that specifically, uh, I think it’s Inyo County where China Lake is, and then Yuma County, Arizona are perfect spots where natural cavities exist, where massive underground facilities can be built without having to core out any more rock. So some of these places, there are some US Army Corps of Engineer studies that some of these underground locations can be located up to 8,000 feet underground. [Danny Jones, 2:31:00] Eight thousand? [UAP Gerb, 2:31:01] 8,000. [Danny Jones, 2:31:03] God. [Danny Jones, 2:31:04] That’s crazy. [UAP Gerb, 2:31:06] Yeah. [Visual, 2:31:08] Danny Jones is shown on screen speaking. [Danny Jones, 2:31:08] I would imagine they probably also have, I, I mean, if I was to bet, I would imagine they they have to have some sort of setup on the moon. Like some sort of base on the moon. If we actually did go to the moon in ‘69 and ‘70, and, you know, during those Apollo missions, I would find it hard to believe that, that we haven’t set up something there to like, at least back up the data of humanity, you know? Because if, if there is some sort of like crazy catastrophe that wipes out most of civilization, it’s going to be like, it’s going to wipe out our technology and the, the data that we have, and you would want to offload that. You would want to keep that safe somewhere for humanity to eventually reset somewhere. [UAP Gerb, 2:31:51] Oh, yeah. And if, if you do have a secret space program that uses some types of conventional rocketry where you have to overcome the Earth’s escape velocity, it makes far more sense to station some of those assets on the moon where you don’t have to consistently overcome that as a, such an escape velocity. [Danny Jones, 2:32:04] Yeah. [UAP Gerb, 2:32:04] So it, it makes perfect sense. [Danny Jones, 2:32:06] Yeah. [UAP Gerb, 2:32:07] And of course, the RAND Corporation and other, other, FFRDCs, corporations of interest, were doing studies of, of maglev systems below the moon’s surface. [Danny Jones, 2:32:15] Mm. [UAP Gerb, 2:32:16] Which, if, if we’ve done it here, which I believe we have, I, I think it’s definitely possible on a place like our moon. [Danny Jones, 2:32:23] Yeah. [UAP Gerb, 2:32:23] Especially if we have stuff like the TR-3B for logistics, an ARV to transport some stuff. Or what, you know, what Michael Herrera talked about, that huge octagon craft that he saw in Indonesia that was able to fit multiple containers carrying people, according to him and, and Jake, as well as massive trucks, able to zip together and fly off. [Danny Jones, 2:32:43] Right. [UAP Gerb, 2:32:44] So that sounds like a perfect, perfectly suitable logistics transportation craft that you could use to, um, shuttle materials or building materials, construction materials, supplies, logistics to a place like the moon if you want to have a, off-planet base. [Danny Jones, 2:32:56] Yeah, totally, man. [Danny Jones, 2:32:58] Well, bro, thank you for doing this. This was fucking amazing. [UAP Gerb, 2:33:00] Thank you, Danny. [Danny Jones, 2:33:01] Do you tell people your real name? [UAP Gerb, 2:33:03] Uh, I think Jesse said it once, so it’s, it’s Sam. [Danny Jones, 2:33:05] Okay, okay. [UAP Gerb, 2:33:06] Yes. So, go by Sam. [Danny Jones, 2:33:08] I didn’t know if you were keeping it a secret or not. [UAP Gerb, 2:33:10] Oh, no problem. I just don’t like when, uh, Marines try and scare me by saying my full name. [Danny Jones, 2:33:14] Yeah. [UAP Gerb, 2:33:15] Because he did the full, I think he, I’m trying to remember, but he did the full Mr., Samuel, like full name. [Danny Jones, 2:33:19] Mmhmm. [UAP Gerb, 2:33:20] So, but thank you, brother, for having me. This has been an honor. And this is the coolest studio I’ve ever seen. [Visual, 2:33:27] Wide shot of Danny Jones and UAP Gerb in the studio. [Danny Jones, 2:33:27] Oh, thanks, bro. Yeah, we’ve been working on it for a while. But we’re about to move, so it’s going to go. [UAP Gerb, 2:33:30] Oh, nice. [Danny Jones, 2:33:31] What, um, are you working on anything else that coming up people should look forward to? [UAP Gerb, 2:33:34] Yeah, absolutely. So, uh, whenever one project’s done, I’m always working on the next. Um, I don’t know what’s going to be released by now. It may be a big project on SAIC, or it may be another interview with a former, uh, Navy Commander with some really interesting knowledge on like the Wilson-Davis notes and stuff. But in between my videos, always expect another one in about four weeks’ time. As soon as one ends, I’m working another one. [Danny Jones, 2:33:56] There we go. [Visual, 2:33:56] YouTube channel UAP Gerb is shown on screen. [UAP Gerb, 2:33:56] That’s the channel. The videos will always be about crash retrieval, reverse engineering, material exploitation. Uh, I try and, uh, lay the topics out as, as best as possible. If, if you want to start on one, uh, video for, for new viewers, maybe the, the Navy one because that, mm, that one, that one’s really interesting. Or maybe the Jonathan Weygandt or Alien Reproduction Vehicle, co-so, Grumman. I, I don’t know. The Dugway one… [Danny Jones, 2:34:18] The Weygandt one is fucking phenomenal. [UAP Gerb, 2:34:20] The, uh, that one right there, reverse engineering at Edwards. That’s the story of Ed, the guy I told you about. So that, that’s always one interesting. That Coyame, I don’t know, man. They’re all, they’re all fun to me. That’s why I make them. [Visual, 2:34:31] Studio view showing both speakers at the table. [Danny Jones, 2:34:31] It’s a, it’s a rabbit hole, man. And once you start watching, you can’t stop. It pulls you right in. [UAP Gerb, 2:34:35] Oh, I know. It, the subject is so difficult to parse through, but, hopefully, hopefully, a couple years from now, we’ll, we’ll have this subject ironed out a little bit. [Danny Jones, 2:34:42] Yeah, we’ll see. [UAP Gerb, 2:34:43] And hopefully, the UAPDA, the new legislation to be entered into the 2026 National Defense Authorization Act, gets passed, because what that does quickly, that, that aims to set up a independent review board appointed by the president, confirmed by the Senate, of like civilian experts to help roll out a responsible disclosure plan. Uh, formerly it was, uh, uh, McConnell and Rand Paul, I think, that blocked this, uh, from the Senate, and then Senate communicating with the House to get this passed, so. And I think there was some involvement of Mike Turner, uh, former Rep that, that, uh… [Danny Jones, 2:35:14] He’s the Ohio guy, right? [UAP Gerb, 2:35:16] Right. Wright-Patterson. And then there’s even some, uh, rumors of like the eminent domain discussion being talked about by, uh, Travis Taylor and Jay Stratton, so. I, I truly hope that if that legislation gets introduced again, which it, I believe it will, that, that can finally get passed and we can finally start to peer behind the 1954 Atomic Energy Act. [Danny Jones, 2:35:34] Mm. [Danny Jones, 2:35:35] Well, cool, man. I learned a lot. Thank you again for your time. We’ll, we’ll link all the stuff below, and that’s all, folks. [UAP Gerb, 2:35:40] Thank you, brother. [Danny Jones, 2:35:41] All right, appreciate it, man. Good night, everybody.