herrera-that-ufo-podcast-300ft-craft-2026-07-01

Michael Herrera on That UFO Podcast — “The 300ft Craft Was Only the Beginning” (1 Jul 2026)

Source: That UFO Podcast (host Andy McGrillen), long-form interview with Michael Herrera. Title: “Michael Herrera: The 300ft Craft Was Only the Beginning.” URL: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gzNUjNxSp1c (2026-07-01; ~1:16:40). Captured: 2026-07-01. OpenAI Whisper (whisper-1, verbose_json segment timestamps; audio split into three chunks and merged; first chunk re-run with a punctuation-priming prompt). Two speakers — Herrera (the interviewee, who narrates) and host Andy McGrillen (who asks questions and supplies “context to the viewer”); the Whisper transcript is not diarized, so turns are not individually labeled, but the long narration is Herrera and the shorter framing/questions are the host. Text merged into timestamped paragraphs; phrasing verbatim. Provenance only. Analysis anchors: barber-noc-retrieval-claims (Jake Barber, whose account is what reframed Herrera’s story) and burlison-uap-oversight (Burlison has said he “believes” both Barber and Herrera). No Herrera profile page exists yet; this is the primary if one is built. What this is: Herrera’s fullest recent retelling of his alleged 2009 Indonesia encounter, plus a large second half of far more extreme, publicly unverified allegations. The podcast’s own description flags it as “serious, extraordinary and publicly unverified allegations.” Credibility framing: this is single-witness testimony whose most extraordinary claims (below) are relayed to Herrera by unnamed others, and the load-bearing reinterpretation of his own 2009 experience came from Jake Barber and “multiple people” after the fact — a memory/interpretation reframed years later by external sources, which the base treats with caution. Notable content, by timestamp:

• The 2009 encounter (~4:40-43:14): deployed to Indonesia after a natural disaster on a Marine humanitarian/security operation; he and fellow Marines say they came upon a ~300-foot craft in the jungle, armed operators, trucks moving underneath it. He stresses it looked manufactured / “100% man-made” (paneling, advanced-project appearance), not “classic alien” — no beings in the original account. Held at gunpoint, told to “turn around,” threatened, escaped; a debrief and a camera returned with the memory card and battery removed.
• The reinterpretation (~46:04-48:24): for over a decade he believed he had witnessed a drug- or arms-smuggling operation; in the last few years he says Jake Barber — “and it’s not just him,” also “multiple people within that type of community” — told him what it actually was. This is the pivot the title refers to.
• The darker claims (~47:57-56:00), all relayed/second-hand and unverified: that people are “plucked” from disaster zones (and, he alleges, the US southern border, using intelligence-community assets “like the CIA”) to be used as “psionic assets” in black programs; that their families are brought along as manual labor (janitors, cooks, admin) to staff hidden facilities; a “breeding program” pairing psionic people “like a racing horse” to produce stronger psionics in-house; and, as the most extreme allegations, human trafficking for “sex slaves” and “organ harvesting,” which he says has been reported to federal law enforcement. He declines to say how he learned these.
• Craft-recovery claims (~54:11-56:20): some recovered craft have occupants, some have none (possibly advanced drones, single-use, “gifted,” or beings that “dematerialized”) — attributed to “recovery operators” he has spoken to.
• Advocacy / oversight (~56:42-1:06:53): he frames his goal as whistleblower protection and immunity for people “firsthand in legacy,” transparency and congressional (and presidential) oversight of these programs, safer conditions for willing participants; says he works with members of Congress and protects his anonymous sources. References the Sean Ryan Show interview “three years ago,” the unmet “six months to hand over the keys” deadline, Lockheed Martin, and Eric Burlison’s oversight push.
• Grusch / threat narrative (~1:06:53) and next steps / Skywatcher / self-disclosure (~1:10:45-1:15:54). Weight as single-witness testimony with an after-the-fact reinterpretation sourced to Jake Barber and unnamed others; the trafficking/organ-harvesting/breeding allegations are uncorroborated and extraordinary. See the Barber page for the network these claims sit within.

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[0:00] You’re looking at people doing this to us and thinking that they’re going to kill us. That’s the mindset you’ve got at that point, while also looking occasionally at this craft. But the craft, I estimated, was around 300 feet, because this thing was humongous, and then when the trucks were going underneath of this thing, I mean, the trucks appeared fairly small compared to that craft.

[0:21] Interesting part of your story, because so far, this is all the hallmarks of classic UFO, and you’re waiting on the beings coming into the story. That doesn’t happen. Just because you could tell that this thing was manufactured, you could tell this thing was 100% man-made, like the paneling, everything like that. It looked like a very advanced project, is what it reminded me.

[0:40] The only threat is people using the national security aspect to cover the barbaric programs that go on, and I’m not going to say under what conditions that we found this out, or how I found this out, but let’s just say that it’s still happening to this day on US soil. They’re using assets from the intelligence community, like the CIA, for example, and they’re plucking people for psionics, but the other problem…

[1:04] Hi, everyone, and welcome back to that UFO podcast. As always, my name is Andy, and that was former United States Marine Michael Herrera, and today’s conversation is one I’ve been trying to make happen for a long time. Many of you will know Michael’s story already, but for those who don’t, he came forward publicly in 2023 with an account dating back to 2009 when he says he was deployed to Indonesia as part of a Marine humanitarian and security operation following a major natural disaster. During that deployment, Michael says he and several fellow Marines encountered something that changed his life, a large advanced craft, armed personnel operating around it, and an incident that at the time he believed may have involved drugs or weapons trafficking.

[1:50] But over the years, Michael says his understanding of that event has changed dramatically. This is not simply a story about seeing a UFO. In fact, one of the most interesting parts of this interview is that Michael says the craft he saw did not look like what he now believes to be a genuine non-human vehicle. He describes it as manufactured, human operated, something structured and built, but using technology he believes did not originate with us. And from there, the conversation goes into much darker territory. We discuss what Michael says he saw with his own eyes in Indonesia, what happened to the photos he says were taken, who the armed military personnel may have been, and why he now believes the event could connect to illegal operations, private aerospace, black programs, psionic assets, and the wider secrecy architecture surrounding UAP. We also get into Arrow, Sean Kirkpatrick, Congress, David Grush, Stephen Greer, whistleblower protections, immunity, the recent UAP file releases, and whether some of these different whistleblower accounts may be describing different pieces of the same hidden infrastructure. Now I want to say this at the top, this conversation contains serious allegations, some of them are extraordinary, some of them are deeply uncomfortable, and many of them remain publicly unverified. My aim here is not to tell you what to believe, and it never is, is to let Michael lay out what he says happened, what he says he has learned since, and how he now sees his experience fitting into the wider disclosure conversation. So keep an open mind, keep your critical thinking switched on, and as always, I want to know what you make of this one.

[3:26] Here is my conversation with Michael Herrera. Welcome to the podcast, Michael Herrera. Michael, welcome mate. Hey man, it’s been a long time that you and I’ve been communicating, trying to get something pieced together, but my part of the world’s been a little bit busy with multiple aspects of it, so I’m glad I was able to at least get on now and actually talk to you. Something I’ve wanted to do for a long time, so now that we’re able to do that, it’s going to be great.

[4:01] Appreciate it, and you took the words out of my mouth. We have been talking for a long time, you’re one of the guys who I’ve said on multiple podcasts, soon Michael Herrera’s going to be joining me, and the stars haven’t aligned for various different reasons, but here we are, finally got you on, and great timing to get you on, and there’s a lot to discuss, not only your background, your story, which many folks listening or watching will have heard, but there’s a whole lot going on right now in the UFO community with whistleblowers, with executive orders potentially in the pipeline, and I’d love to get your thoughts on that as we kind of move through, but I think the best place to start, Michael, in the introduction, I mentioned the vague outline of your story and what people may know you for. Let’s take them back there to Indonesia 2009, and let’s give them the outline again of what happened to you back then. Well, I mean it’s good to go back, I mean there’s people that are always jumping on to episodes, and sometimes it’s good to give clarity at least to what may have happened if they’re not familiar. So I had came forward in 2023 with Stephen Greer’s National Press Club, and the story that I brought forward was what happened in Indonesia in 2009, which was we were essentially called, I was with the 31st Marine Expeditionary Unit, my unit actually was 2nd Battalion, 5th Marines, but they get attached to that type of unit, Marine Expeditionary Unit, meaning that you’re typically in an area of operations, and then that’s basically what your focus is going to be, at least with what you do, and at that time it was humanitarian assistance and security operations. And also responses, let’s say if a U.S. embassy was to be overthrown by the locals in that area, or if there’s rebels, if there’s a terrorist attack, then typically we would be the people to go respond to that too. So it’s kind of a plethora of different operations, but specifically what happened in 2009 was in the Philippines there was a typhoon that had hit.

[5:52] Now the 7th Naval Fleet was also attached to the 31st Marine Expeditionary, or I shouldn’t say attached, I should say that the 31st Marine Expeditionary Unit is attached to the 7th Fleet out there, at least at that time. So those naval vessels on top of our element were called out to Philippines originally to deal with the typhoon that had hit and provide humanitarian assistance.

[6:15] Now my ship was the USS Denver, was actually rerouted from the 7th Fleet separately to go to Indonesia, which was the far western side of Padang City, which is western Sumatra. So which was kind of odd, I mean that was the first deployment I’ve ever been on. I don’t know how stuff like that, you know, occurs because this is the first time I’ve ever, you know, been on a ship per se, at least out and underway in a deployment setting as opposed to, I mean we’ve embarked on ships several times, you know, off the coast of California doing some training or some amphibious raids. So the process is I didn’t know exactly how that occurred. Now originally we were briefed to do kind of like a security element to, for hasty landing zones or hasty LZs is what you’ll hear me refer to in previous interviews. And all that means is it’s not something that’s pre-planned, it’s like hey there’s a clearing over here, we can get our assets deployed to that area and start getting some things to happen. And that’s what happened with us. So when we were, when we landed, we landed into a pretty good sized clearing. And mind you these helicopters are not flying super high because again, I mean we’re trying to, the pilots I guess, and the logistics or however that works, I’m not a pilot I can’t tell you, but whatever they were looking for they found a suitable LZ to get a helicopter CH-53 in, which was about 100 feet in length. I mean they’re pretty big helicopters, transport helicopters, and they can bring supplies and that’s what they were doing.

[7:46] But the helicopter that we were originally on was not something loaded up with supplies, it was just personnel, which is just you know us six Marines per se, plus the crew of that CH-53. So as soon as we landed we decided to get into a 360 degree pattern, which is security on all elements of that aircraft to make sure that at least that nothing’s going to encroach into the position and we have eyes all around until that bird leaves. So tactically speaking, if you’re in a position where you’re like exposed, meaning that there is nothing that you can hide behind, you’re going to typically get the prone. But the guy that was in charge of our team said, hey there’s a ridge line that’s not too far from here, it’s got some thick vegetation, let’s go ahead and push up there to get some elevation to see what we’ve got going on. Now as far as a comm situation, I don’t remember us having comms. I was not a radio operator, I didn’t manage any kind of radios, that was not my job. My job at that time, I was a saw gunner. So that’s what I enjoyed to do was you know having a belt fed, which is what I’ve got up here. So it’s just kind of a homage to you know, it’s a replica. So it’s a real machine gun because I mean you’re spending sixty thousand dollars to get something like that and there’s a lot more that I’d rather spend sixty thousand dollars to get on top of the permit, or not permitting, but just all the background checks and all that kind of stuff. But aside from that, so that typical operation I was given an M16A4.

[9:18] And me as a saw gunner, I didn’t really like a semi-automatic rifle. I liked having a belt fed, I liked having, I mean that was what I was good at doing, was employing that weapon system. And it was fun, it was you know, it was a pain in the ass to carry around, but it was fun because you got a machine gun, you got a light machine gun per se. So that’s kind of why it stuck out to me that that was kind of the first time that I was issued at least an M16A4 to do something.

[9:46] Because in a humanitarian setting, you’re not going to have a belt fed machine gun trying to help people. Now as a security element, it’s kind of over the top. Obviously if we had to have a quick reaction force or PRF, that’s a little bit different. But being on top of this hill, it gave us the advantage to see what was going on at least over that area, which we had good vantage point of. And I had a camera that I was actually taking pictures of that area. Well when we decided to face the north, that is when we saw the top part of, you know, something very abstract that we didn’t, in our mind it wasn’t a craft, because you know through the vegetation you’re only seeing segments of it, you know, not seeing the entirety because it’s masked with all the vegetation from our point of view. So I had taken some pictures of the top of that thing, at least from the view that we’re at, and actually have a model somebody actually built. But you essentially what we could see was something like the top of this part right here, but it was rotating and it was changing those colors. So in a jungle that’s going to be pretty abstract compared to the regular terrain and the scenery that you’re going to see is not going to be typically something accompanied with that, unless it’s a building. But I mean what buildings do you know rotate and change colors? None. Yeah. So at that point we kind of looked at each other and then the person in charge decided to say, hey, you know, let’s go check it out. I mean we’re not going to take a long time, but let’s go see what it is. And so we ended up going down this slope, and you know of course it’s thick vegetation. Indonesia’s very, you know, it’s got a lot of jungle out there and some of its triple canopy. I don’t remember what kind of, I don’t think it was a triple canopy jungle where we were at per se, and I don’t recall specifically what it was. But when we had pushed further enough to get into that clearing, at least where that craft was, and it opened up all of a sudden at least the scenery decided to change. There was a clearing, so you had jungle that was surrounding the whole areas outside of this area where this thing was basically hovering. And that view, you know, obviously there was no post in the middle from what the, you know, but this was obviously to hold the model up. But that’s basically kind of view that we saw from that clearing. And between the platform itself and the craft hovering over it, I would say probably 20, 25, maybe 30 feet, you know, we didn’t get super close to it because as we were encroaching into that area, we all of a sudden were intercepted by a team of eight operators. But there were like four teams of, you know, not four teams, but there were two teams, like four guys a piece.

[12:40] Can I ask you, Michael, that might be a good place just to ask you a quick question before you move on to the personnel, because that’s a fascinating aspect of the story on its own. So you’re on a peacekeeping mission, you’re there to help out humanitarian wise, you’ve been dropped into this area. How long is it between getting dropped in the LZ to actually coming into contact with the object? Is it minutes? Is it hours?

[13:06] Oh, it’s minutes. It’s probably within a span of maybe 15, 15 to 20 minutes, if that. And it’s nighttime? No, it’s not nighttime at all. This was in the afternoon. Okay. Yeah, because there’s been some speculation floating around where people are saying it was nighttime. We never did anything at night. Yeah, I’ve seen like recreations and videos where people have had it as nighttime. And I’m like that. I’ve not heard them say nighttime. So I was curious on that. And when you’re being dropped off, you don’t see and the pilots from the helicopter don’t see this huge object, because we’re going to get to talking about the size of it, you may have mentioned that they don’t see this. It’s not in the clearing. No one goes, holy shit, look at that down there.

[13:49] No, I mean, even after the fact of what happened, asking some of those pilots if they had seen anything abnormal, none of them said anything. And of course, I was in the officer’s mess at that time, too. So going back and seeing and again, I don’t know the specific pilots who flew the bird that we were on, but nobody said they saw anything. So we were trying to get answers ourselves, at least to figure out, hey, what, you know what, at that time, and the reason why I went through the official channels is because I didn’t know if it was something that was legitimately one of our stuff. I mean, American, and maybe it was a classified program that nobody knew about that was legitimate. And so of course, talking about it, because subsequently seeing that happen and getting held up, getting searched, getting our weapons stripped off of us, and basically being threatened, and then later on having to sign a nondisclosure agreement by somebody who is portraying themselves to be an Air Force Lieutenant Colonel, made me think at least that maybe it was legit. Maybe it was something. Yeah, I’ve taken you too far ahead. Now, let’s go back to the personnel because you mentioned you’ve been dropped off. There’s kind of two teams of four. Who are these guys in front of you and what happens? So these guys, I mean, they had no insignias. They had no ranks. They had nothing that would signify that they were like of a conventional military, so to speak. I mean, a lot of militaries around the world, even some of our SOF units, a lot of them are going to wear at that time with tricolor materials, right? You know, that was kind of the thing, and none of these guys wore anything like that. These guys were in basically a mashup of black gear. You know, some of them look like SWAT officers without having helmets on. I mean, they all had ball caps, and only one guy that I recall, he was kind of the ringleader, was the one that had a radio, but I mean, he wasn’t talking on it or anything like that, but these other guys that were around, they were dressed up in similar fashions, but they were doing what this guy was saying to do, and at that time, so we were in a tactical column patrolling up, and that’s how we always move as an element, because again, you’re talking about your 5 and 25 meter checks, but you’re also talking about getting eyes on everything. So if somebody sees something abnormal from the flanks or from the rear, that’s going to be called out. You’re going to get on line, and then you’re basically going to try to either oppose or try to break contact, essentially, which means that you’re going to fall back to a position that’s going to get you at least cover or some sort of concealment, but ideally, you’re going to want to get covered, because concealment doesn’t stop rounds from, you know, obviously getting shot, but concealment’s just going to mask you. So at that point, there was nothing that we could really do when we were coming up to that opening. It’s like these guys had their security personnel that these people that we interacted with, they were very well rehearsed. They had, you know, upgraded weapons compared to what we had. They had M4 style platforms. They had ACOGs, which were newer than the RCOs that we had.

[16:54] They had PEC-16s, which were a step up from the PEC-15s that we had, you know, and a lot of the weapons that we were carrying around were not necessarily brand new. I mean, these were things have been through multiple units. They’ve been through multiple deployments, so they’re pretty seasoned, and they, you know, it got to the point to where when we clear our weapons all the time, that they usually have kind of like a black finish to them, and these were starting to turn purple and kind of like a silverish color. I mean, that’s just how you know that these weapons have been used for quite a bit, not to mention the humidity and the temperature has an effect on the weapons as well as the moisture that accumulates, so you’re going to have to clean them routinely, as opposed to drier climates and things like that’s a different story.

[17:41] So, as they were holding us up, you had a guy that was in the standoff distance that was maybe 10 or 12 feet away, and he had his weapon fixed on us, and you had the other guys that were kind of doing the similar things, but you had two guys that were primarily in the direction of where this main guy that had the radio was telling them to do. They had something that looked like a bat system or biometrics tracking that we were trained on, at least I was. I mean, I remember having interaction with this device, and it was basically like it could take pictures, but it could also get biometric data like fingerprints or, you know, they were actually taking pictures or scanning people’s eyes, and it was something to me at the time was like very high tech, and they were trying to originally, they took our IDs out of our pockets, our left breast pocket, and they knew where our IDs were, so when they took those IDs out of our pockets as they’re searching everybody, they had one guy that was trying to actually scan these IDs, and they were getting frustrated that it wasn’t working, and I don’t know why, so they ended up pulling something out that was later to come to find out by some people in the intelligence community that was called a CAVCOM device, and a CAVCOM device is what the agency uses, and it’s like a satellite connected communication device, but it can transmit data, pictures, and puts them to a database, and then they can pull it from there, so that is what they took pictures of was the small thing that looked like a modern day kind of, you know, smartphone, but very thin. I mean, it wasn’t thick. I mean, even my smartphone here is kind of thicker. At least it was kind of the same size, but just a little bit thinner, and that’s what they were taking pictures of our IDs at the same time of stripping our weapons off of us, clearing them out, and then taking our magazines out of our pouches, and then they were putting them on the deck, and they were kicking them off so that we couldn’t actually run and try to grab one and try to slap it into our weapon and try to engage, like the process that these guys have went through from top to bottom was, I mean, it was smooth. It was relatively fast, and, you know, something like for us, I mean, yeah, I mean, we’re pretty efficient when it comes to a fighting force and doing things like this, but, you know, the way that these guys just were communicating and going through us, six people, and taking the gear off was something I could tell they’ve done quite a bit.

[20:15] You guys are Marines, Michael, so, like, I think when people see that and think that, they think the best of the best elite. How are you feeling in this moment when you’ve got these guys who clearly seem, is it fair to say almost a step ahead, a step above in the way they operate? What’s the feeling you’ve got? And also, how much are you able to concentrate on what they’re doing when you’ve got this craft in the background? It’s a good question, and because you have both happening simultaneously, so you have the craft in the background that you can see, and then you have this element here that is basically stripping us of our gear, threatening us, again, they’re perceiving us as a threat, we’re perceiving them as a threat, but they had to jump on us. It wasn’t like when we were walking through that we had our weapons up, and, you know, we were looking for, you know, engagement at the time. That’s not what we were doing. When these guys approached us, they had their weapons already fixated on us, so it’s almost like if you get pulled over by a police officer on a traffic stop, and he’s got his weapon pointed at you, I mean, are you gonna, are you gonna try to, like, get a weapon out of your, you know, out of concealment? Are you gonna try to raise it up? I mean, by the time that happens, he’s already gonna have rounds on top of you, already, you know, hitting you. Like, the reaction time to pull a weapon out and aim it and get proper sight alignment and sighting picture, even though it’s quick, it’s still not quick enough to somebody who’s already got you sighted in. All they have to do is squeeze that trigger. That’s all they have to do. So, all these little Billy badass people that always talk like, oh, I wouldn’t have done that. No, you would have done the same thing we would have done, because if you did, would have done the opposite thing, you wouldn’t have lived. I promise you that. And, you know, speaking a matter of fact of, like, now, knowing where these people, how they get put into these programs and what their backgrounds are, after I was proven, after it was proven to me, it made total sense that these guys are former tier one operators. The way that the units were actually constructed and pulling people from JSOC at that time in the 90s, and then forming some other different attachment that was basically off the books. Like, I have the history of how this started, and it’s pretty incredible. I know who created these teams, and it was a good learning experience when starting to find out.

[22:38] So, I’ll go to more in depth of how that actually plays out after the story, at least what happened with us. But the background and then with these guys and the tactics they use completely made sense, because these guys were all former tier one operators, you know. So, you’re put in a position where normally you’re going to be the one that’s, you know, and of course, the training that we’ve done and all that kind of stuff, I mean, it’s a different enemy when you’re fighting, you know, Taliban members. If you’re fighting insurgency like that, it’s much different, because the tactics that these guys used, they know what we know, but they’re a step ahead when it comes to intelligence, when it comes to small unit leadership, when it comes to, you know, engaging targets like that.

[23:19] These guys were a force, and that’s what they did. They completely treated us as the same, if not more specialized. So, to me, when I had speculated these guys were American Special Forces at one point, you know, even though Aero says something completely different, they said it was the U.S. Special Operations. No, these guys were former, because they were talking how I talk, the same dialects as American dialects, and the gear that they had was all similar stuff that we had. It wasn’t like Vietnam or Desert Storm era type of weapons that some of these units out in the Philippines were using. You know, M16A2s, for example, were some of the things that they would use, at least the military out there, or they’re using AKs, but for these guys, you were using high-speed setups better than what we had.

[24:10] And were they discouraging you from looking at the craft? Because I can imagine I would have, I think in that situation, as heightened as my senses would have been given the kind of immediate threat, I would have been looking at this object behind. Were they discouraging that, or were you looking at both? What was happening? Well, I was looking at both. At least that’s what I was doing personally. And I know these other guys were too, because I mean, you don’t see anything like that ever. And it’s one of those things like, yeah, you’re looking at people doing this to us and thinking that they’re going to kill us. That’s the mindset you’ve got at that point, while also looking occasionally at this craft. And I mean, there could have been more things going on with that craft compared to what we were seeing. But the things that I recall, as we were all online and facing this thing, was that there was these trucks that were coming up.

[24:59] And they were like, they were kind of like up-armored either. I don’t, you know, I’ve had people correct me and say, well, they don’t put F-350s out in that part of the world. They usually do Tundras, because that’s where typically Tundras are made in Asia. So that’s probably what you saw, because again, these trucks didn’t have manufacturing logos or identification either, you know, but they were heavy trucks. They were extended cabs. They had truck beds that had Pelican cases in the back of them. And then they had these little trailers that were pulling these, you know, like half a shipping container size.

[25:34] container that had some HVAC on it, you know, and that was kind of, at the time, I was like, okay, these guys are probably getting drugs. That was what I speculated to be. And obviously, fast forward, that’s not what it’s about anymore. And so as these trucks, there was there was forum that I can recall, coming towards us, and then they were driving knots under this craft onto that platform. And at the time, I didn’t think that the platform was like a part of that craft. I was like, okay, maybe it’s just a smoothed out, like a landing pad for a helicopter or something. And that’s what they were using to park this thing over, and then driving the vehicles onto that. But come to find out after the fourth truck had disappeared, I don’t know where it went. I don’t know if it drove out to the other side, because I don’t remember seeing it on that craft. But then again, going between these this team, and then going back and forth between the ship and these operators as it’s going on. I mean, yeah, you’re going to miss details compared to somebody pretty much pointing a weapon at you. You know, your focus is going to kind of be all over the place. Can you take us, because the model is so handy for folks on YouTube, as much as it probably needs a few lights added to it, and a bit of detail would be great. We’ll maybe get that funded for you, if someone can mock one of those up. But for the folks, especially on audio, talk us through the detail of the craft, the size of it, what you remember, and any particular distinguishing markings, or any kind of surface textures. Absolutely, and that’s a good thing to bring up. Sometimes I kind of get just more into what happened, as opposed to what it actually is that we’re looking at. You know, it’s hard not to do that, because again, that’s from our perspective, that’s what we’re used to telling a story about. But the craft, I estimated, was around 300 feet, because this thing was humongous. And then when the trucks were going underneath of this thing, I mean, the trucks appeared fairly small compared to that craft, you know. And I mean, these were big-ass trucks, man. I mean, that’s the thing. So for something to make these trucks look a little bit smaller, you know that this thing had to be about 300 feet. And in comparison, because as a Marine, in infantry, you’re going to be good at judging distances, because that’s how you’re going to basically relate to the team. If you’ve got a target, what they have, what kind of rate of fire you’re going to basically envelop that target with, just so they understand the ranges that you’re going to. So if they have their weapons set up in certain ways, that’s how you’re going to engage it. So distance-wise, with measuring, was kind of, you know, that’s like, okay, that’s got to be 300 feet. And then, so it had kind of like a pyramid structure on the top, and then it had, like, you could see, like, from the sunlight hitting it, you could see, like, the shifting of, like, the shadowing. So you could see that it had, like, sections on it, so it was octagonal, because I could start seeing, at least, how, you know, it was shifting. And then it had, like, these vents that were, like, on the corners. I don’t know if you can see this very well, but they had, like, these vents, okay? Now, there’s been other, you know, podcasters that have said that I said that the entire craft was, like, a Vanta black color. No, it was a matte black like this, or it’s, like, a matte gray.

[28:45] That’s, at least, the color shifting that was going in between. The Vanta black type of colors were in each of these vents. That was the darkest kind of Vanta black, and I don’t know what those served as, because light wasn’t reflecting off of that. Like, it was, like, it was absorbing light. Like, if you shine the laser into that vent, you’re not going to see that dot. It was the blackest black that I’ve ever seen. And, of course, seeing something that big, making it seem like it’s weightless, that it’s just hovering there, there’s nothing to support it.

[29:22] And it’s, like, it’s set in stone. I mean, just how still it is, but it’s rotating, and it’s something that’s, that’s obviously hovering, you know, 25, 30 feet off the ground. I mean, that, to see that kind of science do that, whatever, whoever built that, I mean, these guys are geniuses on how they work in these programs, and how they construct these craft to do that. Not to mention the cargo that they put on these things. I mean, trucks and containers, and a bunch of other stuff that they may have had on there. I mean, yeah, that’s a lot of materials. And typically, you know, a helicopter that we’re flying on, I mean, they’re only going to carry one container, one container at a time.

[29:59] So, if the physics of that craft, meaning that they’re taking something that’s that big, and they’re making it with, you know, the propulsion or whatever it does to make it basically have mass cancellation, either they’re using cold fusion to do so, to make that thing basically weigh like nothing, I can imagine that it’s also doing the same thing to the materials or the occupants too, with however that physics works. And mind you, I’m no physicist, I’m not a scientist, I don’t understand any of how that stuff works. I’ve had scientists in legacy program tell me what they do, because they’re very excited to talk about it in certain aspects.

[30:34] Granted, they don’t talk about everything, but the way they’ve made the science appear made sense, even to, you know, me. So, it’s kind of weird how they constructed something that big to fly that fast, and to basically just hover there with no audible propulsion, you know, like a jet engine, a rotor, you know, like a helicopter, anything like that. So, the texture pattern that was on this craft was kind of like a scale pattern, and again, we were not close enough to make it to where if it was an octagonal scale pattern, or if it was a square pattern, it just looked like it had scales. That’s all I can recall as far as that goes.

[31:13] No, that’s fair enough. Like, you know, when you need a commercial airliner, or you’ve spent your time around helicopters, there’s a feeling, there’s rotor wash, there’s sound, there’s a pressure in the air. Was there anything like that, like a static, a heat, a sound? Nope. I mean, there was an audible noise, and it was like, the best thing I’d describe is like a guitar amp, or like a transformer type of noise, or like, you know, like a power, like a, I don’t know, something that’s electrical. It’s not like, you know, it’s kind of a similar noise to like a guitar amp. It’s all I can really try to tell people. I mean, it’s hard to recreate that, because it’s very distinct, and people that have heard the similar sound, that have seen stuff like this, like triangles, for example, or other craft, I mean, they all say the same thing, that they’re like, yeah, I know exactly what kind of hum you’re talking about. It’s very distinct with something like that, so it’s very hard to describe it to somebody who’s never heard anything like that. And because it was super abstract at that time, and you’ve never heard or never seen anything like that, it’s imprinted up here very well. It’s just something you’ll never forget. A lot of folks who are maybe hearing this for the first time will be wondering, we haven’t mentioned aliens, NHI entities, and that’s a really interesting part of your story, because so far, this is all the hallmarks of classic UFO, and you’re waiting on the beings coming into the story. That doesn’t happen. This is very much a story about the technology, and I wonder, as you’re seeing this, are you thinking non-human tech? Are you thinking alien spacecraft? What’s going through your head? Nothing like that hit my thoughts, just because you could tell that this thing was manufactured.

[33:01] You could tell this thing was 100% man-made, like the paneling, everything like that. It looked like a very advanced project, is what it reminded me of. If you were to go to a hangar, at a classified facility, you could see something like this floating in there. That’s what it reminded me of, is like, okay, maybe this is something super high-tech. Now, the point of where I’m at now, and having seen photographs or seen things that are non-human, so to speak, is a completely different look compared to something like that. Non-human or ET vehicles are more smooth. They’re not segmented like something like that. They’re not pieced together. It’s just like one giant piece is what I can at least describe a real non-human ET vehicle, per se. Now, I have seen in the sky, at least going through contact measures with psionics and things like that, I have seen what real craft look like. The interesting thing with them, I should say, is we only see a certain part of the visual spectrum.

[34:08] Right? Our eyes only pick up certain wavelengths. These things know how to hide outside of that. If you have infrared or you have thermal, sometimes what you’re seeing with your naked eye may look like an orb, but if you’re looking at it with night vision or you’re looking at it with thermals, you could actually see the entirety of these things. If anybody’s seeing anything, if you’re making contact on a regular basis and you don’t have night vision or thermal, invest into something like that because you’re going to see more. You’re not going to see an orb just like what your eyes can see. Now, some of the time, and I would say most of the time, that’s how they present themselves is going to be orb-like. For that kind of technology that NHI or ETs have compared to something like that, it’s a night and day difference, knowing that now especially. The encounter itself takes place over what? Something like five or 10 minutes. Is that right? Correct. Yeah. It wasn’t very long at all.

[35:06] Yeah. Take us through the end of the encounter then. What happens? Because you’re there with the personnel. They’re taking your guys’ IDs. They’ve made sure that you’re no threat to them. They’ve kicked mags away. What happens? At that point, after that fourth truck had basically went to that platform, I started to notice that the lights on the corners of that craft started to appear. Because during that whole time that we were there, there was no lights on that craft. As soon as that last truck ended up departing or wherever it went, it started to have those lights illuminated. The only colors I can remember seeing is red, yellow, green, and blue. It was just one color per corner. It wasn’t like it was an LED like I have in my office here where it can go different color spectrums. It was just one corner just had that particular color. As soon as that happened, then I started to see motion out in the distance. Because we’re focused on what’s going on in front of us. By the time that happens, they’re already to the last guy to my right. As that happens, you start to see that platform rise up off the ground. Then the craft slowly decided to shift down a little bit.

[36:21] As the craft is rotating, that platform is not rotating at all. It’s just stationary. The craft itself is rotating, if you can imagine. That platform is being still until it just meets up with it. Then it just folds into itself seamlessly. There was nothing like you couldn’t hear any noise like a grinding, trying to put something in. It was just seamless. As it met up with it, then it started to basically still rotating, but go up where the tree line was. As soon as it cleared the tree line to the left, which we’re facing north and the left of us is basically the west direction, which is where the ocean is. That thing ended up taking off at an enormous rate of speed that was instantaneous. It would be 4 to 10 to 100,000 miles an hour instantaneously.

[37:15] I don’t know exactly how fast it was, but it just looked like a black blur. You could see it go like that, just super fast. Real ET vehicles, they don’t travel that way. They just basically phase in and then they can phase out somewhere else. They don’t travel linear like people think that they do. If it’s something that’s traveling linear, it’s man-made.

[37:37] I don’t think they’ve mastered the technology enough to phase in and then all of a sudden appear over here and then appear 100 miles in a different direction, because this thing didn’t do that. It just took off. The guys at that point, it’s gone, they just let you go? They told us to turn around at that point. Mind you, the thing that was spooky about this craft was the size of it, but the fact that it didn’t disturb these trees. It didn’t disturb the coconuts. It didn’t do any kind of water wash and it didn’t do anything to break the sound barrier.

[38:12] It was super, it was creepy, because when you see something that big moving like that, that’s not normal, at least in our world. These guys that held us up, that’s probably a regular day in the office for them. After that happened, they told us to turn around and at that point, that was like, oh, they’re going to shoot us in the back of the head now.

[38:34] Great, so having that thought going through your head, like, oh, you know, like you start to kind of dread it and granted the whole time is dreadful. It’s not a fun experience by any means. It sucks talking about. I hate it, but it’s what happened. So as soon as we were facing that hill, I remember seeing a rifle sling go like this and then went to like our chest, our neck area, except, you know, we had like what’s called a yoke. So it’s kind of like a ballistic protection from shrapnel around your neck on your vest and they got the sling caught in between that yoke and that in my neck or the yoke in my neck. So that sling, when they were tightening that rifle onto our back as much as they can, it started cutting into my neck and so they made the rifle very tight to our back. So we couldn’t, you know, we would basically fumble onto that and try to get it because again, if we tried to, they could shoot us.

[39:33] And then the magazines, the way that they put them back in our vest was normally have what’s called brass to the grass. So I actually have a magazine that I can show people what I mean because some people actually had, yeah, I got my gear in that corner right there. So this is a standard 30 round magazine for an AR-15, right? Typically in our vest, like I have in that one, you’re going to put your rounds facing down because when you reload, now I’m a right-handed shooter, okay? So I’m going to basically pull it out like this, rotate it, put it into my weapon and it’s going to catch into there as I’ve already dropped that magazine depending on what kind of reload you’re doing. The way that they put these magazines in instead of facing down like this, they had them up like this. So you could imagine having with one hand on your weapon and then trying to pull out a magazine, well, how are you going to try to get this part that goes into the magazine well, free from your hand, right? So you’re going to have to shift it down like this to put it in there and then slap it in to make sure it lodges into that the mag release or at least the pin that goes in there that holds that magazine and retains it into that weapon. So that’s how they positioned into our vests. That indicator right there told me that these guys knew exactly what they were doing because it’s the little details like that, that they’re not trying to, you know, they’re giving us their stuff back but they’re also making it very hard for us to get our stuff and to get into basically a fighting position to basically go against them at that point. They’re stalling us. Now that’s smart for somebody like that to do that. So as that’s going on, then they tell us to basically walk back up that tree, that slope and go back up to where we originally were and they’re telling us not to look behind or, you know, because the whole time there’s this going on, they’re saying, hey, we should smoke these guys, we should fucking kill you, it’s easy to get lost in the jungle, you know, like we can make you fall out of a helicopter, like they were saying a bunch of different things. They may have said more but going between looking at the craft and then, you know, you’re not really focusing on what they’re saying per se because you’re already looking at what’s going on behind them. So they could have said a whole lot more stuff but that’s at least what I recall, you know, at that point. So we go up to the hill, back to where we originally were and we decided to take off and run. They weren’t chasing us. We went back to the LZ. Now by the time we got back to the LZ, there was a gunnery sergeant there that I’ve never seen before. He wasn’t in my unit, wasn’t anybody I saw on the ship and he had a radio but he was kind of like, he was pissed off because like we weren’t in a secure position, first of all. And second, we weren’t there, which in the military, like if you’re abandoning your post, I mean, that’s a big deal. They can do some serious damage to your career at that point. That’s part of the other reason why nobody said anything because they don’t want to get their careers jeopardized and some of these guys are still in the military.

[42:48] To this day, you know, so it’s again, you know, so we ended up basically adjusting ourselves but we had help, you know, we were getting our own, you know, off our buddies’ backs and then making sure that we were still, you know, put a magazine in and did a whole nine yards to make sure that we were still, you know, in spec, so to speak. And then basically we were able to get on the bird that came in and then we went back to the ship. Now when these guys were searching us, they didn’t search my dump pouch because that’s where I had that camera.

[43:20] So the whole time this is going on and I’m like, I’ve got a picture of the top of this thing through that, those trees. And I’m like, I got something, you know. So again, how is this going to be approachable? How do we do it? Because at this point, nobody’s wanting to say anything. And so going back to the ship, there was a rear admiral that debriefed us, which again, I’ve never been on a humanitarian mission, but compared to the stuff going on in the Philippines, which I think was a little bit more serious compared to what we were doing, I figured that that rear admiral probably would have been with the main element there. I don’t know why he was on that ship with us and debriefing us, so to speak. So then at that point, we ended up going back to the Philippines and we went to Subic Bay and we had four days off, you know, for libo is what we would say. And we had to be back at the ship around 10 o’clock. So go out in town, you know, hang out with some of the guys, you know, and one of them, you know, we had said, oh, we’re not going to talk about this to anybody. And like, because he’s like, so I was like, you’re gonna tell your wife or anything?

[44:28] He’s like, no, who the fuck’s gonna believe us, you know. And that’s kind of the mentality it’s been ever since. And so going back to the ship that same night, after the first night we were there, you know, my camera that I had secured in my locker in the berthing was not cracked open. It wasn’t like, you know, somebody took a crowbar to it and pried it open. There was no visible, like, indications that it was broken into or vandalized. But my camera was sitting on top of my rack and it had the memory card out of it and it had the battery out of it. Well, I had two batteries, so I go back into my locker, open it up and find one of the batteries and I put it into that camera and the camera wouldn’t turn on and it was fully charged. So I ended up later on throwing that camera away and I wish I didn’t because I had some people who were like, well, you still have that camera, we could actually figure out a way to get the data off there and, you know, recover those images. I’m like, well, hate to break it to you, but I don’t have it anymore. And so whoever went on the ship and took their cameras and then the other guy’s phones were missing too. And I had actually left my phone back in Okinawa. I didn’t take it because I didn’t have any service. So it was like, okay, why am I going to take something when I had a Panasonic camera that I took and bought for reasons like this? So it’s like, you know, and this is 2009 timeframe. Camera phones were a lot different compared to what they are now. Yeah. So if I had taken images of that thing with a cell phone at that time, I don’t think those images would have done justice compared to that camera would have could have done. But realistically though, even if you did recover that picture on the camera, what are we going to see at that distance? Would it be something sufficient to go, wow, look at that? Or would it have been grainy still, you know? I mean, that’s a good question because again, I never saw the quality of those images, you know? So for us, I mean, for me, it would have been something that was an indicator that was leading to what we experienced to be true. But to somebody else that’s as an outside observer who wasn’t there, like maybe somebody in government or a Congress, they look at it, it’s not going to be clear to them. You know, at least just looking at it in that kind of aspect, right? Because it’s easy for, because we experienced to say, oh, it’s true and all this kind of stuff. Well, yeah, it’s easy for us to say that because we were there. But somebody who’s never been there experienced that doesn’t believe in this kind of subject for all you mean, for all that means, I mean, it’s completely different. So, and that was the thing about it too, is I didn’t believe in the subject before. I thought it was, you know, Hollywood bullshit, you know, just selling a story and that was it. And it’s like, okay, so anybody talked about it? It’s like, okay, then some way, this is real. This is, there’ll be a lot more of this going on compared to what the movies are compared to what History Channel at the time will be talking about, you know? So it’s completely closed off to that idea. And when that happened on that day, that event confirmed two things for me. It confirmed that we had the technology, but it also confirmed that we hadn’t gotten it from something else, right? We’ve not even touched on a really interesting, another interesting aspect of that story. Now for years, more than a decade, am I right to say that you believed you had seen an incredible piece of technology, but you had been witness to some kind of drug smuggling or arms smuggling event, but only in the last few years, you’ve come to find out that is not what you witnessed, is that correct? That’s very correct. Now that, you know, Jake Barber’s been forward, obviously, he was the one, and it’s not, you know, for the record too, it’s not just him who had told me that that’s what’s going on. There was multiple people within that type of community in that type of work who has also said the same thing. And they were able to provide that. So Jake was a data point for here, but then hearing it from other people that don’t even know Jake, they were all saying the same thing. And as good as that is, it’s horrible.

[48:31] Because it’s not a good, I could live with it being drugs, right? Because there’s no victims to that, so to speak. But then when you have the aspect of finding out that it’s people that are being plugged to be put in these programs, and then the fact of the environments that they put these people into, and granted, I know that they’re willing to participate. I understand that.

[48:51] It’s just like when we go into the military, right? You’re going to be subjected to risks, or even death. Even training, you know, could kill you because you fall off of something. Or there’s a, you know, negligent discharge of a weapon. I mean, maybe you shoot yourself in action. Like there’s a risk to everything that we do in life. Driving in your car to go grocery shopping, and somebody runs a red light and T-bones you and kills you. Like, we take risks every day. I understand that. But the thing that I’m mainly advocating for in these programs is one, the transparency with Congress to have oversight of it, including the President. But two, they need to do something that’s going to be safer for people who want to willingly participate in these programs. Because these people, yes, they enjoy what they do. But again, they’re given a choice to either participate, or they’re going to be left behind and succumb to the disaster that’s in their area, or to the rebels, or even having to live a life that they have that they don’t want to live anymore. Right? So there’s more incentive for them to participate. Now, to me, okay, I can understand that. But at the same time, there has to be different measures to allow stuff like that to potentially happen.

[49:56] But there’s safeguards, and there’s humility involved with it, right? Let me give you a little bit of context, Michael, or the viewer and listener some context to follow up on that. So what we’re seeing here is that what was witnessed by you are groups of people being put into those containers that are susceptible to being psionic assets, potentially, or into programs like that. And the interesting thing here, and quite an unnerving issue, is you’re in a disaster zone, don’t forget, folks. And these people are, and we’ve just had the Venezuela earthquake going on right now, where thousands of people are still missing in Venezuela under rubble. But the suggestion here is, you’ve got private entities or whatever organization is doing this, going into potential disaster zones, taking people away, who otherwise just won’t be found, let’s just say, because of the issue that’s going on in the area. So it’s a real easy cover up from that aspect of it. And they’re being taken away as psionic assets to participate in these top secret black programs for various reasons. Is that right? Yeah. Yes. So there’s There’s a little bit more to that, too.

[51:10] Now, a lot of these assets, a lot of their families come along with them, too. And the reason it’s not because they’re being generous is because they need manual labor in these bases or these facilities. So a lot of the people that don’t cut it out as a psionic aspect, well, they become a janitor, they become a cook, they become an admin personnel to help maintain the facility so that way they can themselves run it without having to get people from, you know, oh, go ahead and go on LinkedIn, let’s go ahead and apply to Blackside to be a janitor, right?

[51:42] Yeah. It’s not how it works, right? But they need people that, you know, they’re gonna live there, they’re gonna help, and maybe they’re not helping in a psionic approach, but they’re gonna help in that instance of maintaining the facilities and helping with that. So that was brought to my attention because a very valid question that was asked, and I even asked this question, I was like, well, how come the janitors or people in those positions never come forward?

[52:05] Well, one, if they’re on U.S. soil and they’re being taken from the third world country, then they’re pretty much considered an illegal immigrant, right? So it’s subjected to that, especially in the political environment right now where that’s a hot button. So they’re gonna give up their lifestyle, but they’re also gonna give up everything that they have and get deported and then eventually go back to the same situation they were in before.

[52:26] I mean, if I was in their shoes, I wouldn’t wanna do that. I would wanna partake and have shelter, have education, have medical, have everything including making money to help with that. So I probably wouldn’t say anything. I’m pretty sure a lot of people would probably feel the same way too. So that aspect of obviously taking more people and then having the psionics do the psionic stuff and then the janitorial, but then there was also another thing that I was provided to, which was a breeding program that exists of them breeding psionic people together to make a better psionic person.

[53:03] That they don’t have to go to a third world country to go get. They just, everything’s done in-house. Which is smart. Genetic susceptibility that someone is predisposed to this particular skill or talent. So it makes sense to get two folks with those skills or talents to couple up down the line and the baby potentially produces a more pure form of it, if you wanna call it that.

[53:29] Yes, and so the way it was described to me was like a racing horse. You know, how they have to breed several horses together to get like a perfect horse. Well, that’s what they kind of equated it to. Which makes sense. I mean, so, and I’ve talked to other psionic assets, like legitimate psionic assets in these programs that are doing work in other capacities.

[53:52] And the way they’ve explained it was, you know, they made the cut, so to speak, but they love what they do. You know, but rest assured, I mean, that still doesn’t give the excuse to have these kinds of operations happen to pluck people out of these areas. I mean, I get that there’s a willingness to do it, there just needs to be a better way.

[54:11] Now, the other aspect too, that I’m gonna talk about, that frankly pisses me off, is there’s the other aspect of it too, the darker aspect, which we found out. And I’m not gonna say under what conditions that we found this out or how I found this out, but let’s just say that it’s still happening to this day on US soil. And it’s the border crisis per se, that they’re plucking people from there.

[54:39] And they’re using assets from the government, they’re using assets from the intelligence community, like the CIA, for example. And they’re plucking people for psionics, but the other problem is, is they’re plucking people to be sex slaves and be sold as sex slaves. And then there’s organ harvesting that we found out. And all that information and all that evidence has been provided to federal law enforcement.

[55:02] So there’s two aspects of what they’re doing. And either way, they’re making either money from it, or they’re making money from either acquiring the technologies by using the psionics to attract craft to come in, and then they target them and hit them. Or they get them to land peacefully, which is the other thing that some of these assets have conveyed to me that they have happened quite a bit, that they actually have craft land with occupants coming out.

[55:29] Now, the other thing that people need to understand too, a lot of these craft that they recover, they have no occupants on some of them. Like it’s either at a very advanced drone, or this is where the theory comes we’ve heard probably where they say they gifted us technologies. Some of the recovery operators that I’ve talked to have said the same thing.

[55:53] It’s like, yeah, we’ve recovered craft, but there’s no occupants on it. So we don’t know what that is. We don’t know if it’s a drone. We don’t know if it was a gift. We don’t know what, or maybe they could have, the beings themselves could have dematerialized and went to some other part or went back home, however that works. Again, that’s speculation.

[56:11] I have no idea. So, but it’s just from an official aspect of the people doing it, for them to say that is pretty astonishing. Yeah. And even potentially some of these objects as amazing as they are could be almost a single use. We’ve got rovers we’ve sent to Mars, that incredible technology, it’s really expensive, but it’s not coming back.

[56:35] Correct. So why wouldn’t something more advanced than us have something similar? Exactly. This is exactly the point proven. So, I’ve heard speculation on this too from some engineers and scientists on legacy. And I’m not going to ever name my sources because I’ve had people that try to contact me after I’ve done interviews. Like, who are you talking to?

[56:56] Who’s providing you information? Why am I going to tell you? I don’t know who you are for one, but two, these people are entrusting me with information to reveal to an extent, but also to provide me a better understanding with it because I am working with members of Congress. I am working different aspects of it. So what I’m trying to facilitate is kind of like a middle ground to where I can provide the government or the investigating agencies or the personnel to do it, to have a better picture of what to look for while the people stay anonymous and stay safe.

[57:24] I care about them being safe more than anything. That is, you know, these guys are geniuses. These guys, they work a job that nobody else understands. They love what they do. The thing that goes through these people’s heads is that they never get to work a job like that and get paid as well again, because you have to understand that some of these guys get paid millions of dollars a year in legacy to work on what they’re doing.

[57:47] I mean, they make a lot of money. So I don’t blame them wanting to keep, you know, keep in contact with a job that’s going to help them further, you know, keep their families, you know, well sustained, financially set, things like that. I completely understand. You know, so having to navigate that’s been a little bit challenging, but again, I’m glad I’m starting to see the conversations start to talk about the protections, to talk about the immunity for people that are firsthand in legacy, because that’s exactly what I’ve been advocating for ever since day one, because I know a lot of these people and I know that they’re good patriots, they’re people that care, they’re genuine, they’re nice people, they’re very smart, but where in this world are they going to work on stuff like that when that’s exactly what they’re calling it, you know?

[58:39] Let’s talk about the now. Let me come in because we’ve only got a limited time left and there’s so much I could still, I could have you for hours here, Michael, and I know you’re a busy guy. You mentioned, I saw you on Sean Ryan, which I think was three years ago, almost, and you were talking then quite positively that we were potentially going to have, remember at the time, the policy makers had told, or the politicians had told the private entities, you’ve got six months to hand over what you’ve got, to give us the keys, and we were all thinking that was going to happen.

[59:13] And here we are three years later, and we’re not a whole lot more further forward on that. They never done it, you know, and that’s, you say there’s huge issues with oversight, and we heard at the time, well, Lockheed Martin have an aspect of them looking to divulge technology, other aspects of the company don’t want to hand things over, but Eric Burleson very much seems to be trying to keep in on that.

[59:34] So let’s kind of cover where we are now. From three years ago when you kind of came forward telling your story on Sean Ryan, you were hopeful of the progress. What real progress have you seen in that time? And perhaps is there anything that really disappointed you that hasn’t come to fruition? Well, so I, okay, very good, very good question.

[59:54] And there has been progress in ways that, you know, I don’t want to give up the farm, so to speak, because again, it’s not my place to do so. I don’t want to, you know, I don’t want to speak on somebody else’s behalf. Let’s just say what, some of what you just talked about has happened. Now, the thing as far as the legislation side of it, Mike Turner and Mike Rogers were the ones that took out the M&O domain portion of that.

[60:21] That’s why they, you know, now everybody understands why they did it, because yeah, they were getting enormous kickbacks from these aerospace companies. But years ago when they started talking about this, you had somebody from Lockheed Martin, I believe this, if I recall correctly, saying, why do we have to give up stuff if we’re the ones that created it or we’re the ones that have it?

[60:40] So it’s like, they just admitted that they had it and nobody picked up on that, right? But the problem is, is they’re not getting it because they’re funding their own stuff, right? Where are they getting the money for this? From taxpayers. So what makes them think that it belongs to them when it belongs to the people and it belongs to the government?

[61:01] You know, and it’s the same way in the UK, because they have, you know, a lot of the legacy aspects intersect over to that part of the world too. And there’s a lot of involvement on that aspect. So, and the way that they do it is the same way they do in the United States. It’s all intertwined, interconnected, so to speak. So, but the fact that they went and said that, and they think they’re entitled to it, but they’re using taxpayers’ money to do that.

[61:22] Not only that, but I mean, again, you have the aspect of them saying that something that they need to build like a prototype is gonna cost hundreds of millions of dollars or billions, but in reality, it doesn’t cost that much, but they’re using the money to fund other projects that nobody knows about. That’s where the legality comes into aspect with that too.

[61:39] Now, the other problem that most people will not understand, this is the United States of America. We’re the superpower of the world, right? When it comes to military. Well, there’s things that we have that, I guess are known somewhat secrets that are involved with these technologies that may have put us in a better pattern to maintain that.

[62:06] That I personally don’t know, but that’s what’s been communicated to me. Now, granted, Russia and China also have these technologies. So with this last disclosure form that happened, the problem that a lot of these people are talking about is they’re looking in the rear view mirror. They’re not understanding that most of these people that are in government or military higher-ups, they’re used to using a system that they’re used to thriving in to get answers.

[62:34] When they don’t understand that the systems that are keeping those secrets are not the US government per se, it’s people within the government that are helping that, but it’s this private aerospace or the private sector, so to speak, that are keeping the secrets. So the system that they are used to that works for the government does not work for the private sector.

[62:54] They need to understand that. They need to understand that there’s different things. And because President Truman back in 1947 signed the National Security Act, it allowed that to happen. And this is when you started having these teams start to come about where they keep Big Blue to be the military war machine to keep our country at that level, but they also had a different team that was created in 1947, more specifically for recovering UFOs, to reverse engineer, to have a whole department set up for something like that.

[63:26] And now it’s turned into something that because they have sophisticated technologies, but they also have the best and brightest minds in the entire world, in the United States, for example, just on our side, but then you also have the operator aspect of it, which have the most elite and trained people that have participated in the military that work for this.

[63:46] So you have an enormous power structure that is going unchecked. The only thing that the government and us as law-abiding citizens have that they don’t is the legal system. It’s also integrity, but it’s also the fact that, again, their whole world comes crumbling down because now there’s oversight, meaning that they’re not gonna get paid as much anymore, granted, now that they’re not gonna be able to facilitate a lot of the legal stuff that’s made them a lot of money.

[64:17] But the thing that’s been communicated to me by good people and legacy is a lot of those bad players that were in management positions have left. So now the problem is is without giving up the national security aspect of it, which I use lightly because, I’m sorry to say this, but if you have an entity that is unchecked, that’s not national security.

[64:37] When you have whistleblowers that are coming forward and then having retaliation happen, that’s not because of national security. None of that is. It’s bullshit. So that kind of conveyed the point to me that if it was really national security, well, then you guys would use the legal system, meaning you’re gonna get the US Marshals, the FBI, and the military intelligence agencies to get involved with that, to actually have punitive measures put against people who violate that, right?

[65:04] So why doesn’t it happen that way, but instead you have murders that happen? But then you have their careers that get destroyed. Then you have the IRS up their ass. That’s not because of national security. That’s because they’re giving up a piece of the pie they don’t want people to know about. That is why even some of the people have said, oh yeah, Congress is doing things to set people to not have any kind of trouble coming forward.

[65:27] Well, yes, they’re not gonna get in trouble from the legal government, but this other entity that’s out there that encapsulates within the government, that’s gonna be the thing that does it, that technically doesn’t exist. That’s gonna be the thing that’s gonna bring those ramifications. That’s what they’re scared of. So if you have the legal system and you have these politicians that actually care about getting to the bottom of this, which there are some that do, and I’m not saying that nobody is, because there are some that do, and Burleson is one of those people, and I respect that man highly because he’s got some fucking balls on him to ask and to do what he’s doing, because he’s getting the right people to talk to him and provide him the real information.

[66:08] And now that they kind of understand that there’s been some bad players that are involved, I’m not gonna name who they are because they’re very public people, but those that listen to this and know, and if you happen to listen to this and you’re one of those people, you’re known. We know who you are. You’re gonna be dealt with and accordingly as the law is gonna have.

[66:28] So either you start keeping your nose clean and helping out legitimately, or you guys are gonna get, you guys are gonna get divulged. Then all of a sudden, it’s gonna make sense to the public. And some of these guys hide behind credentials of military or intelligence agencies or scientific community or academics. You guys are taking the money and you guys aren’t doing the right thing for the American people or for the world for that matter.

[66:52] Shame on you. Let me ask this, because we’re getting towards the end of your busy time. I spoke to Dylan Borland today to say I was interviewing you and he said to pass on, he loved and appreciated you and thanked you for everything you’d done. And I just wanted to kind of know in terms of those whistleblower relationships, because correct me if I’m wrong, I heard you again, I think it was on the Sean Ryan.

[67:16] It didn’t sound like you were too keen on the position David Grush was taking at the time on how he was positioning his NHI conversation, the biologics and the potential threat. Is that still the same case that there, what is the whistleblower community like in terms of relationship with yourself? I mean, I’ll put it this way. I’m not gonna name who I know or who I’m corroborating with or anything like that, because I don’t want people to know my networks.

[67:44] Because if everybody knows that, then guess what? The people that are trying to shut everybody up, because here’s the thing, I’m helping them too with what I can. And it sucks to see some of these people get their lives all fucked up because they’re doing the right thing. It’s a shame and it sucks. But David Grush, that guy, I’ll put it this way.

[68:08] A lot has happened progress wise because of that man. He is now understanding the threat aspect of it. Well, first and foremost, now they’re understanding that the real threat aspect is not because of ET. They could care less. And the analogy I use for this, imagine if you’re walking outside near your house and you see a colony of ants right there.

[68:33] You’re not gonna pay attention because you already know what they are, right? Now, let’s say you go out the next day and you see them with a fucking lighter and they’re trying to light your house on fire. That’s gonna get your attention, right? Yeah. We did the same thing. Meaning when we started developing nuclear, atomic and nuclear weapons, that’s what got their attention.

[68:53] So why would we need something like that to blow up and destroy the world essentially is kind of mind blowing. But again, for them, they don’t understand it. So if they were really hostile species and wanted us all dead, well, they wouldn’t wait till we started coming up when having technologies that are on parity with theirs now. They would have waited.

[69:15] They would have done it earlier until we still had biplanes that were still fighting a first world war and to do something, don’t you think? They would have waited till we, or they wouldn’t have waited. They would have struck us when we were not as advanced technologically. I’ll put it that way. They would have done it a long time ago and they didn’t.

[69:36] So they’re not a threat. The only threat is people using the national security aspect to cover the barbaric programs that go on. The programs that are doing real abductions of people, the programs of people that are committing wet works to keep people like whistleblowers more in the legacy programs. Now, for me, I don’t really consider myself a whistleblower.

[70:00] I consider myself a witness because I witnessed something, right? I didn’t divulge a specific program. Now, what put me in a whistleblower category was when I was getting information from people in legacy that was divulging real stuff to talk to the government about. That is what kind of switched it, going from a witness to a whistleblower, talking about real programs.

[70:20] And these guys didn’t want to be seen coming forward and divulging information and risking their lives. Here, I’m already out in the open. So it gave me the opportunity to be their voice and I gladly took that position. At the same time, it gave me enough knowledge to understand what’s going on really. So that way I could help be an asset to them, but also be an asset to the government and help them get the right people funneled to them so that way they can get this whole problem situated and fixed.

[70:46] To finish up, I want to ask you a two-part question and you can answer it all together. First off, given everything you’ve learned and you’ve experienced since 2009 to now, what do you think we are dealing with in terms of this whole phenomenon? And the second part to finish would be, and what needs to happen next for things to go the right way?

[71:06] So the phenomenon itself, I think they don’t care if we know about ET. Because people can see that for themselves if they really want to. Like the whole thing with psionics or CE5, you don’t need to go to Greer’s events to learn how to do that. You can do that yourself. Everybody can do it. I know how to do it. I’ve been doing it for a very long time and I didn’t even know that’s what it was.

[71:28] But I think that the event that happened in 2009 opened up my mind to be able to do that, to have the openness to be willing to see that. And it has happened throughout my life. And I’ve got some pictures I’ve submitted to Congress and showed them like, yes, this is what I’ve experienced outside of it. The psionic aspect’s very real. And I didn’t know that.

[71:47] So when the psionics started coming out and I was like, okay. So I started asking the psionic assets, I know the questions about that, right? And that’s why they’re like, yeah, you have what we’re able to do. You understand it perfectly. But again, it’s just getting it to where it becomes more mainstream and for everybody to partake in it, try it.

[72:07] You don’t have to pay money to go to a fucking event. Just learn how to do it. Just learn how to meditate. Learn how to get into that cognitive state or that meditative state or that state of consciousness and experience it for yourselves. You guys don’t need to spend money to do that. Just have the open mind to do so. The second thing is, the program aspect is what they’re trying to keep covered up.

[72:30] And I’m gonna say it like this, because when disclosure happens, you know what also happens? All these crimes that have been committed throughout human history, meaning the abductions, meaning wet works, meaning money laundering, all the illegal stuff that they were doing now gets exposed. They don’t want that. They don’t wanna be implicated in crimes that ultimately is a capital crime or treason, which it can be executed for that.

[72:59] So the thing that needs to happen, this is where it segues into it, there’s two things that need to happen. There needs to be immunity for the people that wanna come forward, that wanna blow the lid on some of these programs and should give up the goods, which partially has happened by the way. I’m not gonna say in what capacity, but that has happened.

[73:17] And it happened a while ago. So some of these people know exactly where stuff’s going on and what they have. And some of them have seen it for themselves. That’s what I’m gonna say. The other aspect that needs to happen is these bad players, they need to be dealt with in a way that can be constructive. The last thing that we wanna do is have them use this technology against us, against our military, against our congressmen, against the people, the law enforcement, because then it just becomes a war.

[73:49] And then we’re not gonna get anywhere with that. So what needs to happen? Okay, well, you can, we’re not gonna throw you on a fucking, on a noose, so to speak, right? But maybe we can work together. Maybe we can figure out a gray area that we both can thrive in. You help us, we’ll help you. That needs to happen too. And maybe they can trade up to the worst people because a lot of the people that are doing this stuff, I get that now they’re trying to cover their ass, but they’ve been trying to cover the asses of people that have worked with them and above them so that way they don’t get fried.

[74:21] That’s what’s been going on. So if that’s established and there’s help in either aspect of it, then everybody gets what they want and then we all win. It’s a win-win for everybody. Yes or no question, just to finish. And you might not even be able to or want to answer that. Is the trading up and helping out why Skywatcher went away publicly?

[74:49] Now, I got a lot of people that asked about that. Skywatcher is a good thing, okay? What had happened is now that they wanna privatize it to an extent to where the government’s only getting that portion of it, but it’s partially been dissolved, okay? And that’s all I’m gonna say about it. It went for a good purpose and then ended up shifting into something that doesn’t have any kind of public oversight anymore, which is a shame.

[75:19] But this is the reason why I’m saying now is if you’re open-minded and you’re willing to learn and you wanna do it, you don’t need Skywatcher to prove it to you. You don’t need Dr. Greer to prove it to you. Learn about it yourself. Go out under the stars and start doing it for yourself. It’s not gonna cost money. It’s gonna cost time, which is more valuable than money, but guess what you learn?

[75:41] It opens you up to a whole new world and it opens you up to a whole new opportunity. And then you see it for yourself. And if that’s disclosure enough for you, you win there, right? Yeah. Well, Mike, listen, I hope I can get you back on. You don’t do many of these interviews and I really appreciate you’ve eventually came on to spend some time with me.

[76:01] I’ve got a million more things I could have asked you. And hopefully down the line when the stars align again, I can speak to you one more time on the podcast. But thanks for the work you’ve done and also sharing your story today. All right, no problem. Thank you for having me on too. And the thing is, as busy as I am, I’m glad at least I was able to do that.

[76:18] And I would like to be on here again. Maybe there’s more that you can ask and that I can answer and provide. And hopefully during that time, we start to have more develop as this goes on. So I’m always hopeful for that and I’m always keeping a positive mindset of it. And that’s really what makes me go forward.