National Geographic — “UFO Whistleblower” (UFOs: Investigating the Unknown, full episode, 19 June 2025)

  • Source: National Geographic, UFOs: Investigating the Unknown, episode “UFO Whistleblower” (full episode on the National Geographic YouTube channel), published 19 June 2025 (~44 min). https://youtu.be/zZLqFjG4HSo
  • Format: documentary, narrated/anchored by journalists Leslie Kean and Ralph Blumenthal (the 2017 NYT / 2023 Debrief–Grusch reporters).
  • Transcript pulled 2026-05-30 via YouTube caption API (youtube_transcript.py). Lightly auto-formatted; speaker turns not individually attributed (documentary multi-voice).
  • Two through-lines: (1) the 26 July 2023 House Oversight UAP hearing (Grusch, Graves, Fravor) and the Schumer–Rounds UAP Disclosure Act; (2) the historical Donald Keyhoe / NICAP cycle (Mantell 1948, Projects Sign/Grudge/Blue Book, the Condon Committee) as a 70-year rhyme.
  • Notable original content: an in-depth segment on the Vandenberg AFB 2003 “football-field red square” case with on-record first-hand witnesses Jeffrey Nuccetelli and Chaz King, a Security Forces blotter logged “Patrol Response, Unidentified Flying Object,” a “unauthorized aircraft landing” cover-brief, and an active AARO follow-up via Graves’s Merged podcast pipeline.
  • Primary for vandenberg-afb-uap-2003; corroborating for grusch-whistleblower-testimony-2023 and congressional-action.

Notable on-record lines:

  • Grusch: “Biologics came with some of these recoveries… Non-human… that was the assessment of people with direct knowledge on the program.”
  • Karl Nell: “Non-human intelligence exists. Non-human intelligence has been interacting with humanity… there are unelected people in the government that are aware of that.”
  • Skeptical counterweight (Blumenthal/others): Grusch “does not have firsthand evidence… That does not mean he’s lying… but it’s not the kind of evidence the public is gonna need.” “No, not evidence that would convince a skeptical scientist.” Kean/Blumenthal’s own net: the government likely covers up R&D and adversary tech, not “alien spacecraft and alien bodies.”
  • Graves: ~5% pilot reporting rate; the Tic Tac “was far superior to anything we had.”
  • Sen. Rounds: the Act got the National Archives collection but the independent review board was gutted by the House.

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[00:00:01.801] [♪ mysterious music playing] [00:00:04.937] -I love UFOs. [00:00:06.572] And the reason I love UFOs is ‘cause I don’t know [00:00:09.241] what they are. [00:00:11.144] -Hollywood has given us three scenarios for our [00:00:14.814] first contact with an alien civilization… [00:00:17.850] Invasion. [00:00:19.385] [explosion] [00:00:21.387] The radio message from outer space. [00:00:24.056] [electronic pulse] [00:00:25.758] And then you have the lone, stranded explorer scenario. [00:00:31.197] Probably all 3 of them, every bit of that, is wrong. [00:00:36.435] -Oh my God! [00:00:42.741] -The truth probably is much more ambiguous and [00:00:46.312] much more puzzling. [00:00:48.314] -The US Navy has finally acknowledged that videos [00:00:50.282] appearing to show UFOS flying through the air are real. [00:00:53.786] [pilot] Oh, my gosh, dude. [00:00:54.987] -The lead pilot saw an object zip right by his aircraft. [00:00:59.258] -It was white, pure white. [00:01:02.061] It had no windows, no wings. [00:01:05.464] -Like, what the (bleep) was that? [00:01:08.601] -In the last few years, [00:01:10.569] we’ve gone from a point where you couldn’t [00:01:12.271] touch this subject, to a point where the government [00:01:14.807] acknowledges the videos of UAP are authentic. [00:01:18.244] -Now, we have a duty as scientists to explain them. [00:01:21.848] -More and more scientists feel comfortable [00:01:23.549] talking about this, and even investigating it. [00:01:26.218] -Most UAP sightings are explainable. [00:01:28.788] 98% of them. [00:01:30.723] The 2% is what matters. [00:01:32.692] -The hope is to find UAPs. [00:01:35.428] Where are they hiding and why are they here? [00:01:39.131] -I had had a number of very strange encounters. [00:01:42.368] They were so intrusive and so physical. [00:01:46.272] -Alien abduction experiences are a mystery to this day. [00:01:50.275] -So many times I wondered what they saw in me, [00:01:54.313] it’s a profound question to have for an entire life. [00:01:58.017] -Maybe these people have a common brain structure. [00:02:00.487] Supposedly the government has some things. [00:02:03.055] Let’s get the data. [00:02:05.258] -What do they have inside the government? [00:02:08.661] What do they actually know about UFOs? [00:02:12.165] And why can’t more be released to the public? [00:02:15.534] -I think belief is too easy. [00:02:18.337] I think debunking is too easy. [00:02:20.473] I think the truth of the matter is way more complicated [00:02:23.409] and way weirder. [00:02:26.912] -We get reports every night. [00:02:29.047] -I don’t know what the hell it is. [00:02:30.816] [overlapping radio chatter] [00:02:34.286] [♪ theme music playing]. [00:02:45.531] -Americans will soon learn more about UFOs. [00:02:48.434] The House Oversight Committee will hold a hearing on [00:02:51.403] Unidentified Aerial Phenomenon. [00:02:53.673] -It is going to be about UAP whistleblower claims. [00:02:57.043] Sort of the first of its kind. [00:02:58.911] -If there’s one issue that can bring Democrats [00:03:00.679] and Republicans together, it’s UFOs. [00:03:03.382] -The House Oversight Committee will hold a hearing on [00:03:04.917] Unidentified Anomalous Phenomena, UAPS… [00:03:08.787] I prefer to call them UFOs. [00:03:10.556] We’re going to get to the bottom of it, daggummit, [00:03:12.291] whatever the truth may be. [00:03:18.764] -I’m about to walk into a congressional hearing and [00:03:20.933] witness something that I never thought I would see. [00:03:23.970] It’s the first hearing that we’ve actually had witnesses [00:03:26.705] to events speak at. [00:03:30.309] Nothing like this has ever happened before and [00:03:31.444] we don’t know what they’re going to say today. [00:03:35.848] I’ve been writing and reporting on UFOs for over 20 years. [00:03:38.918] And all during those years, [00:03:40.152] I was really up against the belief that UFOs aren’t real. [00:03:45.691] Saying UFOs are real does not mean that [00:03:47.660] they’re alien spacecraft. [00:03:49.729] It just means these are real, physical objects in our skies, [00:03:53.032] and we don’t know what they are. [00:03:55.735] In 2017, I co-wrote a story for the New York Times about a [00:03:59.371] secret program within the Department of Defense that was [00:04:03.008] investigating UFOs and no one knew about it. [00:04:06.345] -The groundbreaking article that Leslie and I and [00:04:08.781] Helene Cooper wrote revealed a secret [00:04:10.983] Pentagon unit called AATIP, that investigated these things, [00:04:15.287] that according to the government, [00:04:16.789] officially didn’t exist. [00:04:18.624] [Leslie Kean] The article also included official Navy videos [00:04:21.427] of unexplained objects that pilots were witnessing. [00:04:24.129] And we’d never seen anything like that before. [00:04:26.633] -The New York Times unveiled the existence of a real-life [00:04:29.535] X-Files Department… [00:04:31.337] [Leslie Kean] It was an explosive article, [00:04:33.405] I mean front page New York Times about UFOs. [00:04:36.842] [Marik Von Rennenkampff] That article spurred an [00:04:39.511] enormous amount of Congressional interest. [00:04:41.113] They redefined UFO to UAP: [00:04:45.584] Unidentified Anomalous Phenomena, [00:04:48.621] to account for objects that operate in space, [00:04:51.858] in the air, and potentially underwater. [00:04:56.862] So Congress recognizes that there is a major [00:05:00.366] national security risk of unidentified objects passing [00:05:04.570] through restricted, sensitive airspace. [00:05:09.141] After learning about AATIP, [00:05:10.943] Congress formalizes the mission and forms the [00:05:13.011] UAP Task Force, [00:05:15.414] which then eventually becomes what we have now, [00:05:18.083] the All Domain Anomaly Resolution Office. [00:05:21.254] Leave it to the government to come up with wonderful [00:05:23.789] acronyms and names. [00:05:25.124] AARO. [00:05:27.593] And that is the entity that is now the official government [00:05:31.130] UFO analysis office. [00:05:36.502] -So, the 2017 article kind of changed the climate on UFOs. [00:05:43.108] And then a few years later, [00:05:46.545] I was introduced to a man named David Grusch. [00:05:50.983] He was an intelligence official who wanted to come forward with [00:05:53.919] some very stunning revelations. [00:05:57.489] So Ralph and l wrote a story for an online publication [00:06:00.959] called The Debrief and now, [00:06:04.797] two months after the David Grusch story [00:06:06.632] was published, a House oversight committee is holding [00:06:09.501] an open hearing and our article helped pave the way. [00:06:16.208] People are lining up outside the building to get in. [00:06:19.211] They flew in from all over the place, even overseas. [00:06:23.015] How early did you guys get in line? [00:06:25.785] -Uh, 3:30 a.m., 3:16. [00:06:28.053] -Incredible! Really? -Yeah. [00:06:31.089] [Leslie Kean] There are three witnesses being called today, [00:06:33.592] but the first person that people really want to hear from [00:06:36.895] is whistleblower David Grusch. [00:06:41.567] -The subcommittee hearing on [00:06:42.868] Unidentified Anomalous Phenomena or UAPs, [00:06:46.205] will come to order. [00:06:48.173] Mr. Grusch… [00:06:50.409] -Mr. Chairman, ranking members, and congressmen. [00:06:52.911] My name is David Charles Grusch. [00:06:55.013] I was an intelligence officer for 14 years. [00:06:57.617] My testimony is based on information I’ve been given by [00:07:00.252] individuals with a longstanding track record of [00:07:03.856] legitimacy and service to this country. [00:07:07.659] Many of whom… [00:07:08.694] [Leslie Kean] David Grusch worked for both the [00:07:10.629] National Reconnaissance Office [00:07:11.997] and the National Geospatial- Intelligence Agency. [00:07:15.501] He had very high clearances within those agencies and [00:07:18.504] he was the representative sent to the UAP task force [00:07:23.042] when it was in operation. [00:07:25.077] He started looking into the questions of crashed retrieved [00:07:27.980] objects within various programs that may have been hidden away. [00:07:31.917] He told us for our article that he had evidence which he had [00:07:35.854] gained from 40 people he interviewed at high levels, [00:07:38.857] that the government, [00:07:40.559] or some agency within the government, [00:07:42.594] possessed craft of non-human origin. [00:07:46.666] [Ralph Blumenthal] He was talking about things that no [00:07:48.534] country on earth could produce. [00:07:50.469] Alien spacecraft, I mean, there’s no other way to put it. [00:07:54.607] [Leslie Kean] He claimed that he could not be shown the craft, [00:07:57.309] but he was shown documentation, photographs, [00:08:00.612] and was able to gather very, [00:08:02.648] very specific information from people directly involved. [00:08:06.585] [Marik Von Rennenkampff] He alleges that the government [00:08:08.754] is operating a decades-long UFO retrieval and reverse [00:08:13.225] engineering effort, illegally, [00:08:15.928] outside of the purview and oversight of Congress. [00:08:19.398] [Leslie Kean] Oversight was not being provided to programs [00:08:22.168] which were legally required to have oversight, [00:08:25.204] and he felt it was his obligation to report them. [00:08:28.307] -I have taken every step I can to corroborate this evidence [00:08:30.976] over a period of four years while I was with the [00:08:34.212] UAP task force [00:08:35.380] and do my due diligence on the individual sharing it. [00:08:39.651] I became a whistleblower through a urgent concern filing [00:08:42.888] in May 2022 with the Intelligence Community [00:08:46.592] Inspector General. [00:08:49.127] -Mr. Grusch, why did you come forward on this issue? [00:08:52.264] -Purely a sense of duty. [00:08:54.099] I first swore an oath when I was a cadet 18 years ago, [00:08:56.735] and I still uphold that even out of the uniform. [00:09:00.939] [Leslie Kean] During the time that he gave the information to [00:09:03.375] the Inspector General, [00:09:04.843] he was under oath and the ICIG had ruled that [00:09:08.847] what he told them was credible and urgent. [00:09:11.517] -I was informed in the course of my official duties of a [00:09:15.120] multi-decade UAP crash retrieval and reverse [00:09:19.124] engineering program. [00:09:21.360] [Garrett Graff] A lot of eyebrows went up both in the [00:09:23.395] room and people who were watching that live [00:09:26.765] around the country. [00:09:29.401] As someone covering national security in Washington, [00:09:32.738] I got interested in UFOs, [00:09:34.673] not as someone who was raised on Star Trek, [00:09:37.709] but because I began to see serious people talking [00:09:41.313] seriously about this subject. [00:09:44.816] UFOs are real, you know, [00:09:46.886] we know that there are unidentified objects [00:09:50.155] in our airspace. [00:09:52.424] Even John Brennan, [00:09:54.026] the former CIA director, has said, effectively, [00:09:57.996] “There’s weird stuff out there flying around. [00:10:00.732] We don’t know what it is. It puzzles me.” [00:10:19.818] -I figure there can’t be that many things that [00:10:22.688] puzzle John Brennan. [00:10:26.224] [Marik Von Rennenkampff] There’s no question that the [00:10:28.226] government retrieves objects that may have been abandoned or [00:10:30.929] recovered from adversaries. [00:10:34.700] [Garrett Graff] The US government has had a UFO crash [00:10:37.035] retrieval program for 100 years. [00:10:40.172] UFO in this case though, [00:10:41.707] doesn’t necessarily mean alien spacecraft. [00:10:43.809] You know, this is how, in World War II, [00:10:46.011] this unit was able to get its hands on crashed [00:10:48.947] Japanese Zeros or in the Cold War, [00:10:52.151] Soviet MIG fighters. [00:10:54.720] -Dave Grusch is alleging something different, something, [00:10:57.756] you know, quite more extraordinary. [00:10:59.758] Evidence of extraterrestrial or off-Earth technology. [00:11:04.897] I think, you know, he presented as a very credible person [00:11:09.301] in that he was an intelligence officer, [00:11:11.403] he had security clearances. [00:11:12.538] So this isn’t somebody walking in from the outside. [00:11:15.941] This is an insider. [00:11:17.776] -You say that the government is in possession of potentially [00:11:20.112] non-human spacecraft, [00:11:22.147] do you believe our government has made contact [00:11:24.015] with intelligent extraterrestrials? [00:11:27.286] -That’s something I can’t discuss in a public setting. [00:11:30.922] -If you believe we have crashed craft as stated earlier, [00:11:34.459] do we have the bodies of the pilots who piloted this craft? [00:11:37.863] -Biologics came with some of these recoveries. [00:11:40.532] Yeah. [00:11:42.601] -Were they, I guess human or non-human biologics? [00:11:46.404] -Non-human. [00:11:47.605] And that was the assessment of people with direct knowledge [00:11:49.407] on the program I talked to that are currently still [00:11:51.143] on the program. [00:11:53.912] [Garrett Graff] Non-human biologics. [00:11:55.447] Effectively alien bodies. [00:11:58.150] You know, this is the biggest possible secret that [00:12:01.787] you could imagine any government really keeping. [00:12:05.524] [Leslie Kean] To be sitting there and hearing members of [00:12:08.026] Congress asking these questions in a very serious context [00:12:12.264] was just astonishing. [00:12:14.366] -But as I stand here under oath now, [00:12:16.301] I am speaking to the facts as I’ve been told them. [00:12:19.504] I am driven by a commitment of both the truth and transparency. [00:12:23.909] I’m asking Congress to hold our government to this [00:12:26.144] standard and thoroughly investigate these claims. [00:12:29.381] I am hopeful that my actions will ultimately lead to a [00:12:32.984] positive outcome of increased transparency. [00:12:37.422] [Leslie Kean] The congressional hearing in July of 2023 [00:12:40.759] isn’t the first time that we’ve had individuals advocating [00:12:43.995] for greater transparency and trying to undo the secrecy [00:12:47.332] involved with the UFO issue. [00:12:50.970] [Garrett Graff] Across all of human history, [00:12:53.438] people have seen strange things in the sky. [00:12:56.541] We see this, particularly In the early years of the [00:12:59.277] Flying Saucer era, [00:13:01.313] the late 1940s and early 1950s, [00:13:03.882] as pop culture and Hollywood movies began to [00:13:06.885] link the ideas of UFOs and flying saucers with aliens. [00:13:14.492] And key among that interest was a former military officer [00:13:21.000] named Donald Keyhoe [00:13:23.402] -Our first guest on To Tell the Truth [00:13:25.337] is one of the world’s leading authorities on [00:13:27.372] unidentified flying objects. [00:13:29.908] What is your name, please? [00:13:32.410] -My name is Donald Keyhoe. [00:13:36.314] -My name is Donald Keyhoe. [00:13:39.985] -My name is Donald Keyhoe. [00:13:41.753] -Only one of these gentlemen is the real Donald Keyhoe. [00:13:45.925] [Christopher Mellon] Major Donald Keyhoe is one [00:13:48.126] of a number of people, [00:13:49.762] who encountered the UFO issue, [00:13:52.063] were initially skeptical, but the more they learned, [00:13:54.332] the more they began to realize there’s something going on here. [00:13:57.969] -Now they do come in sort of different shapes [00:14:00.105] and sizes, right? [00:14:01.640] -Uh, the main… [00:14:02.808] …Most of the sightings describe disk-shaped objects. [00:14:05.210] [Garrett Graff] Donald Keyhoe was a respected [00:14:07.579] former military officer. [00:14:09.882] He gets interested in this subject of flying saucers and [00:14:13.184] UFOs after being asked to look into it by the editor of [00:14:17.322] True Magazine, [00:14:19.457] one of the nation’s leading sci-fi and paranormal [00:14:22.694] magazines of that era. [00:14:26.398] -Keyhoe had begun as an airplane pilot. [00:14:29.901] Then a writer. [00:14:31.569] He began to write for True Magazine. [00:14:36.374] In 1949, the editor somehow learned that pilots [00:14:42.781] were reporting strange things in the sky, [00:14:46.618] that the Air Force was denying it, [00:14:48.554] and he felt this needed to be looked at. [00:14:50.856] And Keyhoe, because of his background, [00:14:53.425] was given the assignment. [00:14:56.328] -He particularly becomes interested in the case of [00:14:58.663] Captain Thomas Mantell. [00:15:01.667] Mantell, a decorated Kentucky Air National Guard pilot, [00:15:05.437] World War II veteran, is dispatched to investigate the [00:15:10.575] sighting of a UFO over the skies of Kentucky. [00:15:24.155] [Garrett Graff] Mantell spots it in the sky and sends back a [00:15:28.026] series of radio messages. [00:15:44.275] [Garrett Graff] And then all contact with him is lost. [00:15:55.553] [reporter] Mantell had crashed 5 miles southwest [00:15:58.056] of Franklin, Kentucky. [00:15:59.958] Captain Mantell was killed. [00:16:09.334] [Garrett Graff] This is probably the nation’s first [00:16:12.671] UFO-related fatality. [00:16:16.775] It’s only years later, the Air Force puts together, [00:16:20.278] through, you know, various military and Navy records, [00:16:24.382] that the path of a secret research balloon would have [00:16:28.653] almost exactly matched the path of the object [00:16:32.157] that Mantel encountered. [00:16:33.992] [Linda Powell] But for Keyhoe and many others, [00:16:35.994] his crash has never been adequately explained. [00:16:39.865] Keyhoe went to the Pentagon and asked them about this [00:16:44.102] sighting but he didn’t come away any the wiser. [00:16:48.740] [Garrett Graff] Donald Keyhoe remained convinced [00:16:51.076] that the government was covering up the truth. [00:16:56.614] [Marik Von Rennenkampff] There’s been a long history of [00:16:58.416] public perception of coverups and nefarious activities [00:17:02.153] by the government. [00:17:03.354] That a very, very credible individuals like David Grusch [00:17:07.525] are bringing back to the fore. [00:17:09.628] -Mr. Grusch, are you aware of any individuals [00:17:12.097] that are participating in reverse engineering programs [00:17:14.365] for non-terrestrial craft? [00:17:16.268] -Personally, yes. Mmm-hmm. -Have you seen the spacecraft? [00:17:21.406] -I have to be careful to describe what [00:17:23.675] I’ve seen firsthand, and not in this environment, [00:17:26.578] but I can answer that question behind closed doors. [00:17:29.448] -Okay. And so, with that being said… [00:17:31.783] -The controversy surrounding David and his testimony [00:17:33.651] is that he doesn’t have firsthand knowledge. [00:17:35.620] He has not seen any such craft. [00:17:37.622] It’s all secondhand. [00:17:39.524] -He would have very legitimate bans on being able [00:17:43.595] to talk about so-called special access programs that [00:17:46.664] he was a part of. [00:17:48.366] It could lead to jail terms if you disclose knowledge of [00:17:51.536] classified material that you are sworn to protect [00:17:55.040] and keep secret. [00:17:57.376] [Shane Harris] The question of whether the government [00:17:58.910] has already recovered evidence of [00:18:01.913] extraterrestrial existence and is covering it up. [00:18:05.784] I mean, that’s the part that I’m just really skeptical of. [00:18:08.953] And even someone like Dave Grusch, who again, [00:18:11.256] is a very compelling witness by his own testimony [00:18:15.326] does not have firsthand evidence of what he [00:18:17.328] claims to exist. [00:18:18.864] That does not mean that he’s lying. [00:18:20.598] It doesn’t mean that he’s wrong, [00:18:21.933] but it’s not the kind of evidence that I think the [00:18:23.768] public is gonna need to really believe that the government is [00:18:27.639] hiding existence of terrestrials. [00:18:30.542] -I think everybody wants to see that picture of that craft. [00:18:33.945] In Grusch’s defense, [00:18:35.947] he had already provided classified details such as [00:18:39.484] program names, the people allegedly involved, [00:18:41.786] and the locations of where craft apparently are stored, [00:18:44.856] in many hours of closed briefings to Congress. [00:18:48.793] -Is there evidence that there are aliens? [00:18:50.695] -No, not evidence that would convince a [00:18:52.797] skeptical scientist, no. [00:18:54.733] There are people holding their hand up, [00:18:56.668] swearing to tell the truth in Congress. [00:18:58.936] That’s not how we establish objective truths in science. [00:19:02.474] [Marik Von Rennenkampff] But it wasn’t just David Grusch [00:19:04.976] making these allegations. [00:19:06.077] A former high-level army officer who worked on the [00:19:09.547] UFO problem for the government, [00:19:11.249] named Karl Nell also supported Grusch’s allegation. [00:19:15.187] [Karl Nell] Non-human intelligence exists. [00:19:17.422] Non-human intelligence has been interacting with humanity. [00:19:20.592] This interaction is not new and it’s been ongoing and [00:19:24.829] there are unelected people in the government that are [00:19:27.632] aware of that. [00:19:28.733] David Grusch has said the same thing. [00:19:30.668] David Grusch cleared for presidentially level material. [00:19:34.038] So you’re looking at people that are in a position to know [00:19:37.542] this and they’re telling you the same thing. [00:19:42.947] [Marik Von Rennenkampff] The Congressional hearing was [00:19:44.649] fascinating because there were two narratives all about UFOs. [00:19:49.621] One narrative is that the government is withholding an [00:19:52.690] extraordinary secret from the American public. [00:19:55.493] And the other is the fact that military aircrews and aviators [00:20:00.898] are observing objects, not just with eyeballs, [00:20:04.970] but with multiple sensors, radar, infrared. [00:20:08.873] -As we convene here, UAP are in our airspace, [00:20:11.810] but they’re grossly under-reported. [00:20:13.812] These sightings are not rare or isolated, they are routine. [00:20:16.648] -Ryan Graves was there because he had been [00:20:19.517] reporting Navy sightings. [00:20:21.653] Some of the pilots in Ryan’s squadron had been picking up [00:20:24.622] strange objects on radar and actually had a near collision [00:20:28.459] with one of them. [00:20:30.395] After hearing about these encounters, [00:20:32.597] Ryan Graves realized that this was a safety issue. [00:20:37.402] And Commander David Fravor was there as a witness to [00:20:40.438] the 2004 Nimitz incident, the famous Tic Tac case, [00:20:44.642] which was one of the best-researched [00:20:46.010] UFO cases ever. [00:20:49.647] He was a Navy pilot flying off the USS Nimitz. [00:20:53.117] They’d been picking up these fast-moving objects on radar. [00:20:56.321] He described it as like a ping-pong ball [00:20:58.489] zig-zagging around, no signs of propulsion. [00:21:02.126] -The Tic Tac object we engaged in 2004 was far superior [00:21:04.862] to anything we had on time, have today, [00:21:07.332] or are looking to develop in the next ten years. [00:21:12.437] -I have a few questions for Mr. Graves. [00:21:14.673] What percentage of UAP sightings, [00:21:16.607] in your belief, go unreported by our pilots? [00:21:19.410] -I would estimate we’re somewhere near [00:21:20.945] 5% reporting perhaps. [00:21:22.814] -So like 95% basically don’t report? [00:21:25.617] -That’s just my personal estimate. [00:21:29.120] In the late 2013-2014 time period, [00:21:32.023] that’s when we first started to notice that there [00:21:34.959] were other objects in the area with us. [00:21:43.901] -Frankly, I was scared that someone was going to hit [00:21:46.471] one of these. [00:21:47.439] And that’s really what pushed me over the edge [00:21:49.708] to speak publicly about this. [00:21:52.777] I knew this hearing would be an extremely important venue [00:21:55.613] to be able to communicate for all these pilots and [00:21:58.850] military operators that had been reaching out to me [00:22:01.586] to share what they had been going through. [00:22:04.122] Folks like Jeffery Nuccetelli, [00:22:06.090] a former security officer at Vandenberg Air Force Base. [00:22:12.497] -Leading up to that hearing, [00:22:14.966] it’s hard to describe how I was feeling. [00:22:17.835] The anticipation, [00:22:19.003] I’ve been waiting for this for it seems like my whole life. [00:22:24.208] To me, it was like watching the biggest Super Bowl ever. [00:22:27.678] And then Representative Luna brought up [00:22:29.514] the Vandenberg case… [00:22:31.049] -My next question would actually be for Mr. Graves… [00:22:34.686] -And I literally fell out of my chair. [00:22:37.255] I literally could not believe it was happening. [00:22:39.991] -Can you please explain to me in detail the event that [00:22:43.561] occurred at Vandenberg Air Force Base? [00:22:46.831] -Certainly. [00:22:50.201] In the 2003 timeframe, [00:22:52.503] a large group of Boeing contractors were operating [00:22:54.672] near one of the launch facilities at [00:22:56.073] Vandenberg Air Force Base. [00:22:58.709] -I was stationed there in 2003. [00:23:01.212] At that time it was part of US Space Command and our primary [00:23:04.849] mission was to develop tests and launch space assets. [00:23:09.187] Rockets and test technology to defend the country against [00:23:12.957] incoming ballistic missiles and other threats of that nature. [00:23:17.161] The day began as a normal day. [00:23:19.864] I showed up to work and as I pulled in, [00:23:22.800] I could tell that there was something going on. [00:23:26.070] Just all of a sudden everyone starts to try to tell me this [00:23:29.006] story about a real-world UFO event that had [00:23:32.810] occurred that morning. [00:23:34.812] -They observed a very large red square, [00:23:38.549] estimated to be almost the size [00:23:39.750] of a football field, [00:23:41.353] approach the base from the ocean and [00:23:43.154] hover at low altitude [00:23:44.655] over one of the launch facilities. [00:23:47.025] This object remained for about 45 seconds or so before darting [00:23:50.661] off over the mountains. [00:23:56.267] -Very quickly I realized, you know, [00:23:58.002] that this is not a joke. [00:23:59.537] They’re not pranking me, [00:24:00.972] that this is a real event that occurred. [00:24:06.511] And then sometime after dark, [00:24:09.480] a radio transmission came in over the net. [00:24:12.250] “Be advised, we have strange lights over the ocean.” [00:24:18.623] -My name is Chaz King. [00:24:20.658] I was on duty the night of the incident. [00:24:25.530] Probably between 12:00 and 1:00 in the morning, [00:24:27.899] we were all in the intra-control facility, [00:24:29.734] which is kinda like a big glass building [00:24:31.937] that oversees everything. [00:24:36.107] It started out as, like, a big ball light [00:24:37.875] over the ocean off the coast. [00:24:40.745] Everyone kind of was like, okay, [00:24:41.913] sometimes we have planes fly into the flight line area. [00:24:44.916] Just got our attention but nothing out of the ordinary [00:24:48.319] until it started to come towards [00:24:50.087] our position. [00:24:52.357] -I was getting ready to jump in my car and head [00:24:54.258] to that location. [00:24:56.527] And then just all hell broke loose. [00:24:59.297] The radio transmissions start to pour in. [00:25:01.999] People started to scream. [00:25:04.602] -As it became closer and closer [00:25:06.637] to our position, [00:25:07.772] you could no longer see the light. [00:25:08.940] You could just see a massive object [00:25:10.207] in the sky. [00:25:11.576] It stopped and hovered, [00:25:12.843] right over the coastline. [00:25:13.945] It was so massive, [00:25:14.880] it was almost like a football field long. [00:25:17.082] There was no propulsion systems, no lights, [00:25:19.651] no audible sounds, [00:25:21.953] and it just hovered there. [00:25:24.655] I remember the five of us [00:25:25.990] looking at each other, [00:25:27.024] kinda dumbfounded, in disbelief. [00:25:29.394] There was excitement, a little bit of fear, [00:25:31.762] a little bit of panic, a lot of chaos. [00:25:34.532] [Jeffrey Nuccetelli] And that’s when it became very [00:25:35.967] difficult to hear the transmissions. [00:25:37.769] These are people I’d spent years with. [00:25:41.072] We were very close, [00:25:42.807] and they’re not people that are easily frightened [00:25:45.109] or intimidated, and they were frightened and they [00:25:47.878] were terrified and they were screaming for help over the net. [00:25:52.617] [Chaz King] After a few seconds we kind of sprung into action. [00:25:54.318] That’s what we’re trained to do, [00:25:56.187] but then it just shot away up the coastline, [00:25:58.389] seemed like it was a million miles an hour, [00:25:59.991] like it was shot out of a cannon and then it was gone. [00:26:04.895] -Was this documented in any official form whether [00:26:07.231] it was a police blotter? [00:26:08.933] -Yes, they had official documentation and records from [00:26:11.369] the event that the witness held over the years. [00:26:15.072] -So this is the Security Forces blotter, [00:26:17.208] and this is the actual record of the event. [00:26:23.948] The title is Patrol Response, Unidentified Flying Object. [00:26:28.720] So that’s how it was officially logged, as a UFO. [00:26:35.059] [Chaz King] We received a briefing, [00:26:36.193] the next tour of duty, [00:26:37.428] that it was an unauthorized aircraft landing. [00:26:39.930] And I remember all of us kind of looking at [00:26:42.133] each other puzzled. [00:26:43.367] One, it never landed. [00:26:45.102] Two, the airfield wasn’t even open that day. [00:26:49.173] I know personally, I can’t explain it. [00:26:50.741] I’ve never seen anything like it in my life. [00:26:53.878] The way it hovered, to make no sound, [00:26:56.114] to have no propulsion system. [00:26:58.082] Our aircraft don’t do that. [00:27:01.085] [Jeffrey Nuccetelli] At the time, [00:27:02.219] I didn’t know what to think other than, [00:27:04.321] this is extraordinary. [00:27:07.091] We didn’t have any kind of protocols in place to deal with [00:27:09.894] an incident like that. [00:27:11.896] But we upchannelled all the information that we had [00:27:14.198] to higher headquarters. [00:27:16.134] And then we would drive around just trying to keep an [00:27:18.736] eye on the sky. [00:27:25.710] [Jeffrey Nuccetelli] Me and the people that [00:27:26.844] experienced the Vandenberg encounters, [00:27:29.647] we talked about it pretty regularly for a while. [00:27:34.452] [Chaz King] Having conversations with family members, friends, [00:27:37.388] “Do you think it was, you know, an alien? [00:27:39.490] Do you think it was this?” [00:27:40.758] I can only describe that, [00:27:42.126] I’ve never seen anything like it. [00:27:44.695] You’re always looking at the sky, [00:27:46.030] wondering will it come back? [00:27:47.331] What was it? [00:27:48.466] And then, you know, [00:27:49.667] 20 years later I’d kinda locked it away after being told [00:27:52.803] to just forget about it. [00:27:54.839] -Some people believed it, other people didn’t. [00:27:57.308] And some people got very uncomfortable. [00:27:59.677] And we realized, people really don’t know this is real, [00:28:04.582] and they think that we’re, you know, we’re making it up. [00:28:09.820] After a while I really just quit talking about it. [00:28:12.824] There was really nowhere to go, [00:28:15.593] and then I found the Merged podcast with Ryan. [00:28:21.966] -Welcome to Merged. I’m Ryan Graves. [00:28:24.201] I wanted to create a platform where pilots and reputable [00:28:28.072] professionals could discuss this topic, [00:28:31.042] safe from ridicule. [00:28:33.411] -I said, this guy seems like someone that I can trust, [00:28:36.447] that will take me seriously. [00:28:38.516] And I stayed up all night one night typing up emails. [00:28:44.088] It took a lot of courage, but I hit that send button, [00:28:47.024] and I think within hours he replied. [00:28:50.428] And then things moved very rapidly from there. [00:28:53.564] Ryan introduced me to some lawmakers, [00:28:56.467] and then eventually to the investigators at AARO. [00:28:59.303] So I provided them all the documentation I had, [00:29:01.806] I gave them additional witnesses that they could [00:29:03.874] follow up on. [00:29:05.276] They’re looking for historical records that could [00:29:07.545] back up the story. [00:29:08.680] And they’re gonna find if there is any radar data. [00:29:11.515] Vandenberg is covered in cameras. [00:29:13.450] There might be some video or still pictures. [00:29:17.354] Hopefully, they can get enough information where they [00:29:20.024] can try to resolve the case. [00:29:41.045] -Jeff, thanks for joining me today. [00:29:42.313] -Thank you for having me. It’s a pleasure. [00:29:44.215] [Jeffrey Nuccetelli] I ended up being invited onto the podcast, [00:29:47.084] and I thought to myself, [00:29:48.452] you know, what are you doing, man? [00:29:50.187] You’re getting ready to go out in front of the whole world [00:29:52.423] and talk about UFOs. [00:29:54.325] We want the stigma reduced. [00:29:56.460] The big shift now are people like you and some of the other [00:30:01.165] people that are, [00:30:03.033] have come out in the open and be like, [00:30:04.902] these events are real. [00:30:06.170] They’re happening. [00:30:07.304] We’re in the fight now. [00:30:08.505] -One step at a time. [00:30:09.607] Well, Jeff, thanks for coming on… [00:30:10.775] [Jeffrey Nuccetelli] I think the more witnesses we can [00:30:13.210] encourage to come out, especially if they have some [00:30:15.045] kind of data or evidence, [00:30:17.314] the stronger position that we will be in to force [00:30:21.185] the government to disclose. [00:30:27.291] -Major Keyhoe, you will agree that most people in the [00:30:29.393] United States don’t believe in flying saucers [00:30:32.696] from outer space. [00:30:33.897] They probably hold the view of Columnist Bob Considine, [00:30:37.735] who wrote that flying saucers are products of, [00:30:42.173] for the most part, [00:30:43.507] “pranksters, half-wits, cranks, publicity hounds, [00:30:48.446] fanatics in general, and screwballs.” [00:30:51.949] -Well I wish I could show him at any time a list of [00:30:54.919] about 800 witnesses, [00:30:56.487] some of the big names in aviation, [00:30:58.255] including up to the rank of Colonel in the Air Force. [00:31:00.892] If they’re screwballs and incompetents, [00:31:02.993] why are they still on the job? [00:31:06.597] [Leslie Kean] In the late 40s and early 50s, [00:31:08.499] there were sightings across the United States. [00:31:11.202] It was in the middle of the Cold War, [00:31:12.937] so government officials were trying to figure out [00:31:15.272] what these objects were. [00:31:17.675] -The government set up a series of research programs [00:31:22.913] charged by the Air Force with investigating UFO claims and [00:31:27.718] trying to solve the mystery. [00:31:29.820] First was Project Sign, then Project Grudge, [00:31:33.991] then Project Blue Book. [00:31:35.927] [reporter] Project Blue Book investigated 12,518 sightings. [00:31:41.231] [Garrett Graff] With time, these projects would end up [00:31:43.300] running for about a quarter century. [00:31:45.369] -Donald Keyhoe was interested in all sightings. [00:31:48.672] And of course, the project Blue Book sightings were of [00:31:51.408] tremendous interest to him. [00:31:55.312] [Leslie Kean] Project Blue Book would often issue very silly [00:31:58.248] explanations for cases that did not seem to fit the case. [00:32:03.354] [Linda Powell] They were birds, the planet Venus, a balloon, [00:32:08.492] seagulls were favored as being the culprits. [00:32:12.429] -They ignored lots of cases, [00:32:14.131] they were not respectful of witnesses. [00:32:16.266] -And the ridicule that was piled on these individuals [00:32:20.070] afterwards is astounding. [00:32:22.406] -Of this great mass of reports, [00:32:24.308] we have been able, adequately, to explain the [00:32:28.178] great bulk of them. [00:32:30.114] -But Keyhoe was very direct in his criticisms of [00:32:33.517] the Air Force. [00:32:35.185] -They are simply following orders to explain away all UFO [00:32:39.656] sightings as quickly as possible when they become [00:32:42.126] public and deny that UFOs really exist. [00:32:46.030] -Keyhoe put the absurdity of the Air Force’s explanations on [00:32:49.767] display for all to see and I think by many accounts, [00:32:52.736] the number of reports actually started to drop because people [00:32:56.407] didn’t want to subject themselves to [00:32:58.575] the public ridicule. [00:33:02.046] [Garrett Graff] So Keyhoe becomes the driving force [00:33:04.081] behind NICAP, The National Investigations Committee [00:33:07.518] on Aerial Phenomena. [00:33:09.520] Which becomes the model for civilian [00:33:13.257] investigation into UFOs. [00:33:16.760] -Instead of being a subject for ridicule, and a big joke, [00:33:21.265] actually it’s a serious matter which could affect [00:33:23.734] the lives of all of us. [00:33:32.576] [Garrett Graff] NICAP is conducting [00:33:34.211] its own investigations, talking to witnesses, [00:33:36.914] as well as trying to put pressure on the [00:33:40.217] government to release the knowledge that it does [00:33:43.387] have about the reality of UFOs. [00:33:47.658] [Marik Von Rennenkampff] In many cases, [00:33:48.759] the Air Force didn’t send anybody to investigate. [00:33:50.894] They just took in reports and stamped an explanation [00:33:53.697] on these incidents. [00:33:54.966] Whereas Keyhoe and his organization, [00:33:56.067] they had investigators around the country that met, [00:33:59.803] and analyzed a lot of these incidents. [00:34:02.706] It’s an important counterpoint to the Air Force’s [00:34:05.776] decades of saying, “Nothing to see here.” [00:34:10.781] -I think that Project Blue Book started off as a sincere effort [00:34:15.019] to try to get to the bottom of what this phenomenon was. [00:34:18.556] But there was a sense in the general public that there was a [00:34:21.291] coverup going on that they were not telling us the truth [00:34:24.394] about what they really knew about UFOs. [00:34:28.298] -In the mid-1960s, [00:34:30.300] the Air Force decided that it would be prudent to have [00:34:34.304] an external academic review of UFOs and the UFO cases. [00:34:40.410] And so in the mid-1960s, [00:34:41.845] the Condon Committee was formed. [00:34:45.749] -Dr. Condon, do you hope to find people from outer space [00:34:49.319] here on earth? [00:34:50.988] -Well I don’t know for sure but we’ll try to just study the [00:34:53.924] reports and get as much additional information as we [00:34:56.727] can to see. [00:34:59.030] -Dr. Edward Condon was a physicist who had [00:35:03.467] a track record that was quite respectable. [00:35:07.271] [Marik Von Rennenkampff] In the years and months before [00:35:09.706] the final report came out, [00:35:11.341] Condon was on record belittling the topic. [00:35:14.545] -Before the study even began, [00:35:16.246] he said in a speech that the government should [00:35:17.948] get out of the UFO business, there’s nothing to it. [00:35:20.951] He later wrote the authors of UFO books [00:35:23.420] should be horsewhipped. [00:35:25.189] [Leslie Kean] Condon is actually on the record saying [00:35:27.491] that he didn’t think the Air Force should have anything [00:35:29.526] to do with UFOs, but, he said, [00:35:31.962] “I’m not supposed to make that conclusion for another year.” [00:35:36.266] [Marik Von Rennenkampff] One of his staff members wrote [00:35:37.601] a memo that says, [00:35:39.269] the trick is to make this thing appear objective. [00:35:44.775] And when the report actually came out, [00:35:47.344] Condon wrote the top-level conclusion. [00:35:49.647] [Leslie Kean] He wrote a summary of his own report, [00:35:52.716] which basically said there’s nothing to any of it, [00:35:55.119] it’s not worthy of scientific investigation. [00:35:58.956] Whereas if you read the report, [00:36:00.624] there are many cases inside of it that were not explained [00:36:04.595] and were stated as such in the report. [00:36:07.498] -There are contradictions in this report. [00:36:09.700] They state in the beginning that all the [00:36:11.735] evidence is negative, [00:36:13.370] there is no evidence indicating any reality of [00:36:15.973] UFOs as devices under intelligent control. [00:36:20.077] However, in the report itself, you will find numerous cases [00:36:23.880] which say that these, apparently the object in there [00:36:26.950] was real and it looks as though it could be a UFO. [00:36:32.522] [Linda Powell] Keyhoe went all out to try and [00:36:34.524] discredit the report. [00:36:36.627] And he undermined confidence in it, [00:36:39.029] but not sufficient to overturn it. [00:36:44.968] -The government in 1969 closed its official investigation [00:36:48.639] of UFOs with Project Blue Book and said, [00:36:50.874] “There’s no alien craft, you know, in the atmosphere, [00:36:54.311] end of story.” [00:36:57.514] [Leslie Kean] In 1969, Keyhoe retired, [00:37:00.317] and NICAP was really never the same without his leadership. [00:37:04.521] -As for Major Donald Keyhoe himself, [00:37:06.523] like most of us, he’s never seen a flying saucer. [00:37:09.293] Which may just make him like a mystic who’s [00:37:12.429] never seen a ghost. [00:37:14.264] But one must give him credit. [00:37:16.300] He has much faith. [00:37:20.370] [Linda Powell] Keyhoe was always pushing at the door to [00:37:23.841] try and get disclosure. [00:37:26.343] He was permanently optimistic it was going to come. [00:37:29.613] He never changed. [00:37:32.516] I think his role is historically important. [00:37:35.586] It shows us how history has repeated itself. [00:37:40.657] [Garrett Graff] In many ways this feels like the same cycle. [00:37:44.327] Every 20 years the government comes out with [00:37:47.664] a new report saying, [00:37:49.333] “We’re definitely sure that UFOs aren’t aliens.” [00:37:53.370] As far as I’m concerned, [00:37:54.638] the government is not engaged in some [00:37:56.506] large-scale cover-up of alien spacecraft [00:37:59.676] and alien bodies. [00:38:01.345] But it does cover up some chunk of the truth about [00:38:04.548] UFOs because the government doesn’t want to [00:38:07.551] talk about its own secret research and [00:38:10.020] development projects or advanced adversary technology. [00:38:14.692] [Marik Von Rennenkampff] But the U.S. government will [00:38:16.626] now need to reckon with some very serious politicians, [00:38:19.463] including Senate majority leader Chuck Schumer, [00:38:23.400] and the UAP Disclosure Act. [00:38:26.837] This is a very serious, very cautious politician proposing [00:38:30.273] some of the most extraordinary legislation about UFOs that has [00:38:33.510] perhaps ever been seen in the United States Congress. [00:38:41.785] -Is there anything else you think that we can do with the [00:38:43.787] government to encourage and facilitate [00:38:45.722] more civilian reporting? [00:38:47.424] -I think we’re doing it right now. [00:38:49.092] -Okay, great. [00:38:50.327] -I think this hearing is going to show the American people [00:38:51.428] that their government takes this topic seriously. [00:38:55.032] [Christopher Mellon] It’s easy in theory to say, well, [00:38:57.968] of course, you know, transparency. [00:38:59.603] We should put everything out there. [00:39:01.138] And I lean that way myself, but I don’t think we should [00:39:05.041] blithely assume that it’s an easy call. [00:39:09.713] If you’re the President of the United States, [00:39:13.517] why do you want to terrify the American public, [00:39:16.820] the world public, with this information, [00:39:20.124] when we can’t do anything about it? [00:39:22.292] The markets are gonna be rattled, [00:39:24.127] and your entire political agenda is probably [00:39:26.897] gonna be overtaken. [00:39:28.799] [Marik Von Rennenkampff] So with UFOs, [00:39:30.600] it’s not surprising that there is some level of secrecy. [00:39:34.538] But in July of 2023, [00:39:36.907] in a move that nobody really saw coming, [00:39:40.844] Senator Chuck Schumer, [00:39:41.979] along with Senator Mike Rounds and a bipartisan group [00:39:45.582] of four other senators, [00:39:47.451] announced the UAP Disclosure Act. [00:39:52.989] [reporter] Schumer is backing legislation that would create a [00:39:55.459] commission with broad authority to declassify documents [00:39:58.762] about Unidentified Aerial Phenomenon. [00:40:01.998] -For a number of years, [00:40:03.166] members of the Senate have questioned whether or not we [00:40:05.569] were getting all the facts surrounding what was [00:40:07.838] actually going on with unidentified flying objects. [00:40:11.074] Senator Schumer and I had decided that what we really [00:40:13.743] wanted to do was two things. [00:40:14.878] Number one, provide a central collection facility or [00:40:17.981] location with the National Archives. [00:40:20.684] And then second, [00:40:21.785] we wanted a board of esteemed, [00:40:24.087] capable individuals that would actually look through [00:40:26.122] a lot of this material and decide what could be [00:40:28.625] released to the public and what should, [00:40:30.227] for national security purposes, be kept private. [00:40:34.197] -The United States government has gathered a great deal of [00:40:36.900] information about UAPs over many decades but has [00:40:40.237] refused to share it with the American people. [00:40:42.873] That is wrong, and additionally, [00:40:45.108] it breeds mistrust. [00:40:46.877] -By allowing for an outside, [00:40:48.645] independent collection of these records, [00:40:50.914] we can make progress in terms of dispelling myths [00:40:54.050] and providing accurate information to [00:40:56.186] the American people. [00:40:58.155] [Marik Von Rennenkampff] Perhaps most shockingly, [00:41:00.123] the legislation made references to non-human intelligence. [00:41:04.060] -Non-human intelligence. [00:41:06.162] That is what the actual text of that amendment says. [00:41:09.633] -We’ve gone from a point in which this entire topic [00:41:13.203] was not taken seriously by the government. [00:41:15.939] And now Congress is talking about the possibility [00:41:19.576] of aliens in legislation. [00:41:22.045] [Leslie Kean] Non-human intelligence was cited in the [00:41:24.948] legislation at least 18 times or more. [00:41:29.953] -What’s impressive to me is that it appeared at all. [00:41:34.257] -We knew that the question was gonna be, [00:41:36.092] “Do you have knowledge of non-human intelligence?” [00:41:39.262] We haven’t seen that, [00:41:41.097] but at least we tried to put it into statute to say [00:41:43.900] we want to get that reported in the future. [00:41:47.938] -The truth may be out there. [00:41:49.806] But you won’t find it in the annual defense bill. [00:41:52.575] The intelligence community nixed provisions to declassify [00:41:55.312] what the government knows about the unknown. [00:41:58.348] -100%. They just gutted it. The gloves are off, man. [00:42:02.852] -Unfortunately, we didn’t get the whole bill through. [00:42:04.754] We did get it out of the Senate, [00:42:06.122] but the House had a different point of view. [00:42:07.824] They were more concerned about the disclosure of items [00:42:11.061] that might be sensitive to national security. [00:42:13.797] And they didn’t want to make a big deal about UAPs. [00:42:16.866] -You had a very strong amendment for government [00:42:18.935] transparency on this issue. [00:42:20.704] Whether you believe my allegations or not, [00:42:24.007] this is a government transparency issue at large. [00:42:28.111] I mean, total failure. [00:42:29.646] It’s one of the biggest failures, probably, [00:42:31.114] in the history of Congress. [00:42:33.216] [Marik Von Rennenkampff] Despite the House gutting some [00:42:34.751] of the elements of the Schumer Disclosure Act, [00:42:37.220] President Biden signed into law a very significant element [00:42:41.124] of that legislation. [00:42:42.759] -Basically, we got part of the bill done, [00:42:44.327] and that was a central location where material [00:42:46.830] would be archived, [00:42:48.332] but we didn’t get the disclosure board included. [00:42:51.268] So we’ll continue to work on the issue. [00:42:53.403] -We will keep working, [00:42:54.738] I want to assure the American people, [00:42:56.506] Senator Rounds and I will keep working to change [00:42:59.342] the status quo. [00:43:01.511] [Marik Von Rennenkampff] We’ve seen testimony from pilots, [00:43:03.980] we’ve seen the videos, we’ve heard from the witnesses. [00:43:07.350] We’re seeing, finally, [00:43:08.952] a true interest in addressing this mystery, [00:43:11.755] solving this riddle, and we should all be intrigued [00:43:14.958] by the unknown. [00:43:20.196] -I received a email on the Navy’s secret network. [00:43:25.268] “Urgent safety of flight.” [00:43:27.971] The next day, that email was wiped from my computer. [00:43:32.375] -There’s no doubt that what we saw was the same [00:43:35.912] type of light formations that were reported and [00:43:38.948] well-documented from the ground. [00:43:41.351] -I can remember the apprehension, the helplessness, [00:43:45.255] abject terror. [00:43:47.324] -Pilots are scared that if they come forward individually, [00:43:50.326] they’re out the door. [00:43:52.162] But if we all go together, [00:43:53.730] the door’s not big enough to get us all through it [00:43:55.765] at the same time. [00:43:57.401] Captioned by Cotter Media Group.