John Ramirez — “Ex-CIA Officer Confirms Alien Hybrids Exist” (Area 52 / DEBRIEFED ep. 42)
Source: YouTube, Area 52 / DEBRIEFED ep. 42 — “Ex-CIA Officer Confirms Alien Hybrids Exist - John Ramirez.” Published: 2025-06-20 (2:07:16). URL: https://youtu.be/nS_Insp7i_Y Speaker: John Ramirez, retired CIA officer (1984–2009, GS-15; Office of the Director of National Intelligence, Directorate of Science & Technology, Directorate of Intelligence; ballistic-missile-defense analyst). Transcription: YouTube English auto-captions via youtube_transcript.py --timestamps (machine ASR; minor errors). Captured: 2026-06-07. Analysis: ramirez-cia-hybrids.
[00:00:00.160] Has there ever been a situation that you [00:00:01.839] were in where you’ve gotten confirmation [00:00:05.839] of government’s involvement with human [00:00:08.800] alien hybrids? [00:00:11.440] Yes. Okay. [00:00:13.679] From a credible source, you could say [00:00:15.759] yes. They know about the hybrids. Yes. I [00:00:18.800] mean, gun to your head right now, you [00:00:20.080] would you would say absolutely. [00:00:21.840] Absolutely. Yes. They were able to [00:00:24.720] collect DNA from aliens. John Ramirez, [00:00:29.039] former CIA officer, 25 year career. CIA [00:00:33.440] had a program to trace this alien DNA in [00:00:39.120] certain families and particularly their [00:00:42.079] children were of interest to CIA. The [00:00:45.200] CIA was tracking the activity of [00:00:49.840] hybrids, human alien hybrids in the [00:00:52.320] United States. that and going back in in [00:00:54.879] their lineage in that 25 years. Did you [00:00:58.079] encounter anyone you knew for sure was [00:01:02.559] read into one of the deeper programs? [00:01:07.840] Yes. Did you have a lot of interactions [00:01:10.560] with this person? Yes, I did. My name [00:01:12.479] was submitted for that particular [00:01:14.400] compartment and the Pentagon came back [00:01:16.000] and said, “No, we’re not going to read [00:01:16.880] John Romero’s into that.” No way. You [00:01:19.040] specifically You specifically cannot be [00:01:20.640] rated. He said, “You don’t understand, [00:01:22.240] John. This program is the highest secret [00:01:28.400] top secret in the entire United States [00:01:30.720] government. This top secret information [00:01:33.920] exceeds that of Manhattan Project.” His [00:01:37.280] um branch uh did operations under the [00:01:40.640] sea, retrieving things. Bob, one of my [00:01:43.200] engineers, was looking at one of the [00:01:44.799] manuals was that thick, and he left that [00:01:48.159] on his desk. The title was UFO [00:01:50.159] Propulsion Systems, Manual of [00:01:51.680] Operations. We were flying something [00:01:54.720] that wasn’t a satellite. What did it [00:01:57.520] look like? It looked like an egg. I [00:02:00.159] personally had only one I would call bad [00:02:03.439] but not demonic experience. And that [00:02:06.399] experience was with a reptilian like [00:02:09.360] being that showed up in in my condo when [00:02:12.959] I lived in Washington DC. And the other [00:02:15.200] I can’t identify because it was [00:02:16.800] shrouded. It was wearing a cloak. A [00:02:18.879] hood. A hood. Yeah. A cloak and a hood. [00:02:22.160] And they showed up one night and they [00:02:23.840] just I woke up cop and they go, “Oh, [00:02:26.239] don’t don’t mind us. We just want to let [00:02:27.920] you know that we know you moved.” [00:02:30.879] And then I went to medical services. I [00:02:32.959] had something done here. And can I get [00:02:35.440] those records? I said, “Sorry. Um, your [00:02:38.879] medical records are classified. You [00:02:41.599] cannot have them.” [00:02:43.920] Okay. Wait, they classified your own [00:02:46.879] medical records? Implants are real. [00:02:49.120] Yeah, it’s not a conspiracy theory. And [00:02:50.959] hybrids are real. That’s not a [00:02:52.480] conspiracy theory. [00:02:54.430] [Music] [00:03:00.080] Hi, Chris. Uh, my name is John. When I [00:03:02.319] was like really young back in 2003, me [00:03:04.879] and my friend were shooting um BB guns [00:03:06.879] and pellet guns in his backyard and in [00:03:08.959] Mission Viejo. It was during the middle [00:03:11.200] of the day probably around 11:00 noon [00:03:13.599] and this golden [00:03:16.959] glowing almost like eggshaped [00:03:21.120] something and it had an aura around it. [00:03:24.000] It was also eggshaped like sitting [00:03:26.400] upright and it was about the size of a [00:03:28.959] Volkswagen bug and it was floating over [00:03:32.159] my friend’s house really slow and I [00:03:35.840] wasn’t afraid of it. I saw my friend saw [00:03:38.159] it. Um, of course, back at the time, we [00:03:40.799] didn’t have cell phones to take pictures [00:03:42.480] of it. So, I told him to run inside, [00:03:44.080] hurry up, grab a camera, grab a camera. [00:03:45.840] And he didn’t have one, unfortunately. [00:03:49.800] [Music] [00:04:05.410] [Music] [00:04:16.639] Ladies and gentlemen, today I am joined [00:04:19.440] by the incomparable uh John Ramirez, [00:04:22.240] former CIA officer, 25 year um career [00:04:27.280] with the CIA, which is incredibly [00:04:29.520] impressive. There’s a lot of things that [00:04:32.080] I’d like to talk to uh you about today. [00:04:34.400] A lot of things that I refrained [00:04:35.759] mentioning while we were having [00:04:36.800] interactions in the last, you know, 24 [00:04:38.720] hours because I wanted to save it for [00:04:40.800] here. Uh but I appreciate you coming [00:04:42.880] into the skiff and welcome. Well, thanks [00:04:45.600] very much, Chris, for having me here. [00:04:47.199] I’ve seen your podcast uh myself and I I [00:04:50.880] really like the way you conduct [00:04:52.240] interviews and I really love all of this [00:04:55.440] I would call it lab equipment. Yeah, [00:04:57.360] this is very similar to what I had in my [00:05:00.400] electronic intelligence lab at CIA [00:05:02.639] headquarters with the addition of [00:05:04.560] receivers and other signal processing [00:05:06.880] equipment, but basically you have all of [00:05:08.960] the components required to do signals [00:05:11.360] analysis right here. That’s interesting. [00:05:13.919] I noticed you gravitating towards this [00:05:16.240] uh yesterday as I gave you the tour of [00:05:18.560] the office and you like a moth to a [00:05:21.360] flame came right up to these things. You [00:05:23.280] were able to recognize a lot of the [00:05:24.720] equipment. So, you know, as as much as [00:05:28.479] this is purely aesthetic, you know, for [00:05:31.520] uh for this podcast, I’m glad to know [00:05:33.520] that in the event where I needed to do [00:05:35.680] signal analysis, it could come in handy. [00:05:38.240] And if you need a signals analyst, I’m [00:05:40.320] here. All right. Well, hired. Definitely [00:05:42.560] hired. Um John, I’d like to maybe for [00:05:46.240] the audience at home, just if you could [00:05:48.800] give me the brief sort of pitch of what [00:05:52.720] you did at the CIA. um what your job was [00:05:56.479] and how you got interested in the [00:06:00.080] UFO/UAP [00:06:01.919] phenomenon. Uh within that, you know, [00:06:04.880] context, I was a uh electronic [00:06:07.680] intelligence analyst uh elint [00:06:12.000] el. And that’s one of the branches of [00:06:14.479] signal intelligence or sigant. And this [00:06:17.759] branch of sigant deals with radar [00:06:20.319] signals uh signals coming from missile [00:06:22.960] seekers. uh signals associated with [00:06:24.960] weapon systems. So the purpose was to [00:06:28.560] collect and analyze these signals, [00:06:31.759] process the signals and then to be able [00:06:34.319] to determine the capabilities of a [00:06:36.479] weapon system just based on the signals. [00:06:38.639] So in that sense we were reverse [00:06:41.199] engineering the weapon system just based [00:06:43.680] on the capabilities of that system to be [00:06:46.319] able to detect, track and engage [00:06:49.520] targets. target being if it’s an [00:06:51.919] adversary adversary system, it will be [00:06:54.720] our planes for example. And so that’s [00:06:57.039] very valuable in the determination of [00:06:59.360] what kind of counter measures we need to [00:07:01.120] deploy in order to defeat an adversar’s [00:07:04.400] ability to detect our aircraft and to [00:07:07.599] keep our aircraft safe. So that was just [00:07:10.240] a um in a short uh description, that’s [00:07:13.840] what I did. Wow. Now, as to how I got [00:07:17.039] involved with UFO UAP topic, um the el [00:07:22.240] uh discipline has very little to do with [00:07:24.960] UAPs, UFOs. However, the systems that I [00:07:28.639] was assigned [00:07:30.319] uh did detect an anomalous uh signatures [00:07:35.360] when they were tracking ballistic [00:07:37.120] missiles of their own manufacturer. Uh [00:07:40.639] they were accompanied by uh strange [00:07:43.759] lights uh strange objects. Tagalongs. [00:07:46.319] Tagalongs. Right. And they were called [00:07:49.039] uh the domes of light phenomenon [00:07:52.400] by FTD back in the day. And so when the [00:07:56.160] Soviet Union would launch a ballistic [00:07:58.319] missile test, uh these domes of light [00:08:01.360] would accompany the missile. And uh so [00:08:05.280] that was very similar to uh what [00:08:08.000] occurred with uh for example the Atlas [00:08:12.240] launch that uh Bob Jacobs talked about. [00:08:14.879] Hair’s going up on the back of my neck [00:08:16.160] right now. Thinking about it, just [00:08:17.840] remembering that day, I saw something [00:08:19.599] that was so strange that it changed my [00:08:21.199] life. In November of 1964, Jacobs was [00:08:24.720] assigned to film a Vandenberg missile [00:08:26.639] launch using a brand new [00:08:28.639] state-of-the-art telescope developed at [00:08:30.560] Boston University. [00:08:32.560] Something flew into the frame. What I [00:08:35.519] saw was a circular object was a classic [00:08:39.200] flying saucer and it shot a beam of [00:08:42.080] something or a warhead. You have to [00:08:44.720] imagine this thing is flying along at [00:08:46.080] several thousand miles an hour. This [00:08:47.519] stuff is flying along and something [00:08:48.640] comes into the frame and chasing it. The [00:08:50.720] flight was disrupted and uh parts of the [00:08:53.200] missile was destroyed. So it’s similar [00:08:57.200] to what we saw in the Soviet Union. And [00:09:00.880] so uh I was assigned a particular radar [00:09:05.440] in the Soviet Union that was very unique [00:09:08.720] to the Soviet Union and we found out [00:09:11.519] that the purpose of the radar was [00:09:14.000] atmospheric anomalous research. [00:09:17.440] So the waveforms were completely [00:09:20.320] different from any other Soviet uh air [00:09:24.160] defense system or ballistic missile [00:09:25.920] defense system. And that you mean that [00:09:27.760] they were made to detect? They weren’t [00:09:29.680] made to detect anything that was [00:09:31.600] standard, the wave system that you’re [00:09:33.920] that you’re referring to. Uh, no, [00:09:36.480] because there were other radars on that [00:09:39.120] test range that were more like what they [00:09:41.279] deployed, right? This system was never [00:09:43.440] deployed operationally other than at [00:09:45.760] this location. Wow. And so this radar uh [00:09:51.279] to this day is still operational. And it [00:09:54.240] did uh was it was ignored um primarily [00:09:58.880] after the Soviet Union fell. Um less and [00:10:01.760] less testing was done and uh it wasn’t [00:10:04.480] really used that much until about 2016. [00:10:08.000] I understand that uh President Putin uh [00:10:12.240] ordered that this radar system be [00:10:15.360] completely renovated, refurbished, and [00:10:17.600] brought back online. Wow. And I believe [00:10:19.680] it is back online based on the overhead [00:10:22.240] photography I was able to see uh of this [00:10:25.839] particular radar system on Google Earth. [00:10:28.800] Wow, that’s very interesting. So I mean [00:10:33.120] being in that position, you had a job [00:10:35.040] that allowed you uh access to an immense [00:10:39.200] repertoire of of intel. I mean that was [00:10:42.079] part of your job was collecting [00:10:43.519] intelligence. That’s what the CIA does [00:10:45.839] best. [00:10:47.680] When you’re in a position like that, [00:10:51.279] do you sometimes come across things that [00:10:54.880] even surprise you? [00:10:57.920] Um, certainly. Um, [00:11:01.040] that’s the thing that an intelligence [00:11:02.560] analyst has to do. It’s part of the [00:11:04.399] trade craft is not get trapped into the [00:11:07.839] same old ways of thinking. Uh, we have [00:11:10.320] to employ critical thinking. And every [00:11:12.959] time I looked at a radar signal, I have [00:11:15.760] to dismiss what I’ve seen before because [00:11:18.000] I’m going to see something new. And it’s [00:11:20.560] particularly the radar systems we were [00:11:22.320] looking at um were in development and [00:11:25.760] constantly improved. And so every time [00:11:29.120] there was a missile launch, I would look [00:11:30.800] for those changes, detect the changes in [00:11:33.920] the waveforms and then by detecting [00:11:36.640] those changes and processing the [00:11:38.160] waveforms, we could then determine if [00:11:40.320] there is a new capability coming online [00:11:43.040] for that particular radar system. So in [00:11:45.680] that sense, yes, we had to um employ [00:11:48.880] critical thinking and not get trapped [00:11:51.680] into the same ways of thinking about [00:11:54.079] that particular system. Otherwise, you [00:11:55.920] might miss it. You might dismiss it. [00:11:57.760] Yeah. So, you guys, we had we had chats [00:11:59.519] about this like prior to the podcast, [00:12:00.880] which is interesting, but like magicians [00:12:03.680] have a lot to do with understanding [00:12:07.440] behavioral sciences and in that we have [00:12:11.360] to use those uh normal behaviors, so to [00:12:15.760] speak, in our favor to create a sort of [00:12:19.839] outcome. And that’s not unlike a lot of [00:12:21.920] the work that you guys did as well. You [00:12:24.800] guys had to take information that, like [00:12:26.720] you said, you couldn’t treat it like [00:12:28.560] normal information. You had to extract [00:12:30.720] from it what you could find useful and [00:12:33.200] then somehow use that to your advantage. [00:12:35.360] Is that would that be fair to say? [00:12:36.720] That’s very accurate. Yes, [00:12:40.160] that makes uh that makes you guys [00:12:41.760] magicians or it makes me a spy. I’m not [00:12:43.519] sure which one. Maybe a little both. [00:12:45.360] Maybe a little of both. Um, so during [00:12:48.320] your time there, I mean, obviously [00:12:49.760] you’re you’re obviously looking at a lot [00:12:52.240] of anomalous activity and anomalous not [00:12:54.320] in the sense that it’s necessarily [00:12:55.760] extraterrestrial, but that it’s new to [00:12:57.600] you. But was there a point where you [00:13:00.560] encountered something you thought to be [00:13:03.360] extraterrestrial? [00:13:05.360] Um, yes. uh was talking about this [00:13:09.120] particular radar and [00:13:12.560] this radar will come up and will start [00:13:17.680] transmitting signals prior to the [00:13:19.440] launch. So we can detect that and we [00:13:22.560] know that the launch is being prepared [00:13:24.880] because uh in order to fire a ballistic [00:13:27.600] missile, you know, you have to put it on [00:13:29.519] the launch pad and you have to do things [00:13:31.040] to the missile um and to prepare it for [00:13:33.839] launch. And so we have telemetry signals [00:13:36.560] being tested before the launch. So we [00:13:39.120] knew that something was up. And in the [00:13:40.959] meantime, the radar was warming up, so [00:13:42.880] to speak, uh going through uh a series [00:13:46.000] of waveform modes of operation, getting [00:13:48.560] it ready. And then the launch would [00:13:50.560] happen. We would detect that uh back [00:13:52.959] then through the defense support [00:13:54.800] program, the DSP satellites that detect [00:13:57.519] uh infrared signatures of a launch. And [00:14:01.199] by comparing the DSP signatures, [00:14:05.680] telemetry signatures um and the radar [00:14:08.880] signals itself, uh we can primarily uh [00:14:13.600] pretty much reverse engineer the the [00:14:15.760] flight path. We knew we knew exactly um [00:14:19.279] how high the missile would go and we [00:14:21.040] knew how far it would go and we kind of [00:14:22.880] knew the impact point and meanwhile the [00:14:25.120] radar is operating. Um and then after [00:14:27.920] the entire uh launch would be finished [00:14:31.120] that is the missile impacted as planned [00:14:34.160] the radar would gradually shut down and [00:14:37.360] it will go through the same kind of [00:14:38.959] pacing of shutting it down. So it might [00:14:41.760] do a few uh waveform modes to in prepare [00:14:44.959] to shut shut down. So we can detect [00:14:47.120] that. But occasionally the radar would [00:14:50.720] pick up something else and it would [00:14:52.959] start tracking nothing that we could [00:14:55.920] determine that there was something up [00:14:57.600] there that was of interest to the [00:14:59.760] Soviets up in the up in their space and [00:15:03.279] they would start tracking objects that [00:15:05.680] we could not determine what they were. [00:15:07.760] Well, they were going through the same [00:15:10.079] um iteration of waveforms as if there [00:15:12.160] was a real object there. Whoa. Uh so [00:15:15.519] that was our indication that you know [00:15:17.920] this there’s something up there that the [00:15:20.000] interest the Russians there something up [00:15:22.079] there to peique their interest enough [00:15:23.680] that they will continue operating the [00:15:25.680] radar and they probably themselves are [00:15:28.079] wondering what’s up there. Wow, that’s [00:15:30.399] so interesting that you guys were [00:15:31.680] observing them observing something, [00:15:33.519] right? Well, right. And so that’s when [00:15:36.320] FDD started analyzing, you know, what [00:15:39.199] could possibly be and that’s when they [00:15:42.240] came up with the domes of light that [00:15:44.160] they were actually like uh liked [00:15:47.040] signatures, the orbs we would call orbs [00:15:49.680] today, but then there were domes of [00:15:51.600] light. That was the phrase that actually [00:15:54.000] if you look up old FTD documents they [00:15:57.120] would refer to it as the domes of light. [00:15:59.839] Wow. So wow. That’s when we determined [00:16:03.199] that yeah there was something up there [00:16:04.800] that of interest anomalous to the [00:16:08.320] Soviets [00:16:09.920] and that they were studying this as [00:16:11.680] well. And later we did found out that [00:16:14.399] there actually were something there were [00:16:17.199] domes of light up there that we will [00:16:19.279] call orbs. What what got what gave you [00:16:21.360] that confirmation? Well, first of all, [00:16:24.160] uh we were able to actually see these [00:16:27.120] orbs visually um not as a photograph, [00:16:30.959] right? But as measures of of intensity [00:16:33.680] or radiance. Oh, actual actual like [00:16:35.920] light signatures. Yes. Um so at the [00:16:38.639] beginning uh the detection system wasn’t [00:16:42.079] capable of imaging anything like the way [00:16:44.639] we would think that we can see through [00:16:47.199] an IR camera or something like that but [00:16:50.320] they would detect radians and it was [00:16:52.560] measured uh as watts to radian meter [00:16:55.440] squared and basically this just a number [00:16:59.199] but it would detect a series of these [00:17:01.440] numbers and we can determine where the [00:17:03.519] intensity was. So you have time on one [00:17:06.480] scale and intensity on the other scale. [00:17:09.039] And so all of a sudden the intensity [00:17:11.199] ramped up. There was something there [00:17:12.959] highly intense and then would ramp back [00:17:14.559] down and maybe there’s another object of [00:17:16.640] intensity and ramp back down. Uh later [00:17:19.360] we had the capabilities uh capability of [00:17:21.839] actually imaging uh what these were and [00:17:25.039] that’s when we start detecting orbs. [00:17:27.919] Wow. And uh as many witnesses of these [00:17:31.120] orbs would tell you, what we detected [00:17:34.000] through these systems [00:17:36.240] was an object that uh invisible light [00:17:40.240] 600 nanome was the wavelength and that [00:17:43.039] 600 nanometers corresponds to the orange [00:17:45.600] color in the visual range and we also [00:17:48.720] got uh scientific information as well as [00:17:51.600] to the radiance and other [00:17:52.880] characteristics of these objects. [00:17:56.320] Wow. Yeah. And that adds up with I mean [00:18:00.160] a numerous amount of cases and and um [00:18:04.080] experiences with craft. You know the [00:18:06.880] orange light were from from Travis [00:18:09.039] Walton to Bob Lazar to Chris Bledsoe to [00:18:11.760] so many others. And so what you were [00:18:14.080] observing was yeah the early UFOs so to [00:18:17.280] speak. Right. And what surprised us [00:18:20.640] though is that um we were aware of [00:18:23.440] structured craft. I’m pretty certain we [00:18:25.679] were aware of structured that is [00:18:27.840] something with a hard surface and by by [00:18:29.440] by you were aware of what do you mean by [00:18:32.160] that? That means there were previous [00:18:33.840] collections of structured craft. I see. [00:18:36.240] And of course there was a whole uh body [00:18:39.120] of collection from photographs by [00:18:41.600] civilians and other sources in the [00:18:44.720] government where they actually saw [00:18:46.720] structured craft. collections of these [00:18:48.960] photographs like McMinnville, a few of [00:18:51.120] those early 50s and 60s like hatshaped [00:18:53.280] ones and and all of those you’re [00:18:54.799] referring to. Those um detections [00:18:57.679] occurred long after Project Blue Book [00:19:00.880] stopped ostensibly stopped because CIA [00:19:03.440] never stopped its own project to [00:19:07.039] investigate UFOs. Contrary to what the [00:19:10.240] CIA may publicly say, there was always [00:19:12.559] an interest in that. Um, so throughout [00:19:16.720] the course of studying these structured [00:19:19.039] craft, we had a pretty good idea of what [00:19:21.520] was up there in terms of something that [00:19:24.480] was aerodynamic. For example, something [00:19:26.880] that could fly in our atmosphere. [00:19:29.919] However, these orbs were not structured. [00:19:32.960] They were energy, light energy, and yet [00:19:37.039] they behaved as if they were structured. [00:19:39.120] that is they flew in a certain type of [00:19:41.919] trajectory, a certain velocity and they [00:19:43.840] maneuvered. [00:19:45.440] So we knew that there weren’t [00:19:47.039] satellites. So satellites though they [00:19:49.520] are capable of station keeping there’s [00:19:51.679] enough fuel on board to adjust its orbit [00:19:54.640] so that the orbit won’t decay and they [00:19:56.960] can maneuver a little bit but they’re [00:19:59.440] not going to make these 90° turns, you [00:20:01.760] know, and shoot straight up or anything [00:20:04.320] like that. Uh they won’t exhibit those [00:20:06.799] uh five observables. Yeah, a satellite [00:20:09.360] won’t do that. No, but these craft did. [00:20:11.760] And unlike um something solid like tic [00:20:14.640] tac, you know, these light orbs were [00:20:16.799] doing the same thing. Wow. So that’s [00:20:19.840] what piqued CIA’s interest. What are [00:20:22.080] these orbs? [00:20:24.080] And as we progressed in our ability to [00:20:27.120] detect these objects because we made [00:20:29.919] advances in our constellations [00:20:32.880] uh that we have uh up in space, we were [00:20:36.000] better able to actually determine the [00:20:38.480] characteristics of these orbs. [00:20:41.360] And so that led to um what I call the [00:20:44.080] orb working group. Now that’s not the [00:20:46.480] official name of the working group. It [00:20:48.400] had a official name which I don’t know [00:20:51.039] cuz I refused to be read into it [00:20:53.520] purposely. I didn’t want to know. I knew [00:20:56.000] enough so that if I knew more than I [00:20:59.280] knew at that time, I wouldn’t be [00:21:01.440] speaking with you right now. That’s [00:21:02.799] right. I would not be talking. As soon [00:21:04.480] as you’re right into it, you can’t talk [00:21:05.679] about it. I can’t talk about it. But [00:21:07.039] because I knew about it and I had enough [00:21:09.360] information, credible information [00:21:11.760] because I sent two of my engineers to [00:21:14.000] this working group. I got enough [00:21:16.080] information as to what they were looking [00:21:17.679] at. And so it was these orange orbs. And [00:21:21.679] so I got a briefing on these orbs at a [00:21:23.840] very lower classification level, not top [00:21:26.480] top secret, but much lower. And it was [00:21:29.120] still classified. But that’s why I [00:21:31.520] included in my very few first view [00:21:34.320] graphs or I say view graphs that dates [00:21:36.559] me my PowerPoint presentations my [00:21:38.480] PowerPoint slides I included the [00:21:40.960] existence of the orb working group as [00:21:43.440] this is the way we would study orbs and [00:21:46.320] the way I describe it was the way [00:21:48.000] actually it happened and so I submitted [00:21:50.400] to CIA for their review and they came [00:21:52.640] back unredacted saying yeah you can talk [00:21:54.720] about this in public so that’s why you [00:21:57.440] know that there was an orb working [00:21:58.799] group. Wow. And that started around 2003 [00:22:02.080] 2004. Do you think that that orb working [00:22:04.799] group are of the same people that [00:22:06.960] studied Chris Bledso’s case? I don’t [00:22:09.760] have that direct information. I do I [00:22:11.760] don’t know. Would you assume that? Uh I [00:22:13.760] think that’s a safe assumption. Let’s [00:22:15.280] put it that way. Uhhuh. Uh but this orb [00:22:17.440] working group uh included members of the [00:22:19.600] entire intelligence community. So [00:22:21.760] outside of the CIA, outside of CIA, NGA [00:22:24.240] was the lead because it was in on uh it [00:22:27.840] the orbs were found on NGA data since [00:22:30.400] they owned the data. Uh they were the [00:22:33.120] lead and then we participated with NGA, [00:22:36.000] DIA, NRA, everybody. Yeah. Along with [00:22:39.520] our contractors, right? And they met in [00:22:42.880] St. Louis, Missouri, which is uh NGA [00:22:46.640] uh NGA West. So there’s two [00:22:48.640] headquarters. One is NGA East back in [00:22:52.000] the Washington DC area and they’re in [00:22:53.679] Springfield, Virginia, and the other is [00:22:56.000] NGA West, which is in St. Louis, [00:22:57.919] Missouri. So, they all gathered in St. [00:22:59.919] Louis, Missouri, and then went to other [00:23:01.600] places as the working group progressed. [00:23:04.640] That’s very interesting. It’s really [00:23:06.320] interesting to know that like even for [00:23:08.960] an agency like the CIA, [00:23:11.919] the nuts and bolts stuff, they’re like, [00:23:14.080] “No, we understand that. We have that.” [00:23:18.240] Yes. This stuff is anomalous. And it [00:23:21.600] often makes me wonder if there if [00:23:23.919] there’s a if there’s some type of [00:23:25.760] extraterrestrial being out there that [00:23:27.520] also experiences UAP, you know, an [00:23:30.400] unidentified anomalous phenomenon that [00:23:32.880] they see and they’re like, “We can’t [00:23:34.400] explain that either.” So, one wonders, [00:23:36.720] one wonders. And I know that uh we have [00:23:39.440] something um I would say this much. Uh [00:23:43.360] one of my engineers, uh I’ll use his [00:23:45.840] first name. I’ll just use first names. [00:23:47.520] These are actual first names. His first [00:23:49.760] name was Bob. U Virginia Tech graduate [00:23:52.960] had a masters in electrical engineering. [00:23:55.440] One of my uh primary engineers who [00:23:58.159] worked in my branch and um he received a [00:24:02.080] lot of materials. They I had two [00:24:03.840] engineers, Allan A Len, Allan and Bob. [00:24:08.240] So these two guys uh were sent to the [00:24:10.240] orb working group. They got briefed into [00:24:12.240] a compartment dealing with everything [00:24:14.799] CIA knew about UFOs. Whoa. At the time. [00:24:18.320] Whoa. So they got read into that. Um and [00:24:22.400] so they asked me You sent them there. [00:24:24.880] Yes, I was asked to send them there. You [00:24:26.480] were asked to send them there. Yes. [00:24:27.840] Because there was a lead uh subject [00:24:29.919] matter expert in our parent office who [00:24:33.120] was leading CIA’s effort. And so he [00:24:35.360] reached out back into the agency and see [00:24:37.760] who the other subject matter experts [00:24:39.919] might be. And the way we got involved [00:24:43.200] with this prior to the working group was [00:24:45.360] that we were looking at the possibility [00:24:48.799] of it being the orbs being some kind of [00:24:53.600] so a Russian technology. Right. Yeah. [00:24:56.640] Russian countermeasures, ballistic [00:24:58.320] missile countermeasures or uh we knew [00:25:01.520] that the Russians had something called [00:25:03.679] stealth plasma stealth, right? And these [00:25:06.880] are like actual external pods that they [00:25:09.600] can hang on the hard points of certain [00:25:12.000] aircraft to create a plasma field in [00:25:15.200] order to do what stealth does is to [00:25:18.240] disrupt the uh fire control solution to [00:25:22.320] shoot that aircraft down. Mhm. And so [00:25:25.360] that’s what stealth does. You don’t want [00:25:27.039] to be shot down. So you want to either [00:25:30.080] uh delay that fire control solution or [00:25:32.799] disrupt it so that the aircraft stays [00:25:34.960] intact and safe do its mission. So we [00:25:37.679] knew that they had these types of [00:25:39.120] devices and we we ruled that out. It [00:25:42.080] couldn’t have been plasma stealth. First [00:25:45.440] of all what we detected was out in [00:25:47.679] space. Oh. And so these aircraft they [00:25:52.000] don’t fly in space. [00:25:54.500] [Music] [00:26:00.799] Most days I’m neck deep in files, [00:26:02.799] interviews, and [00:26:04.960] whatever that thing was. But not today. [00:26:08.080] Today’s quiet. And on these quiet days, [00:26:10.720] I like to feel good, which is why I shop [00:26:13.039] Huckberry. Not to mention, they partner [00:26:15.440] with all sorts of in-house brands as a [00:26:17.440] curator of things that I would actually [00:26:19.120] wear and use. It just makes everything [00:26:21.919] easier. I know whatever I pick is going [00:26:24.240] to look good, feel good, and last. I [00:26:27.679] just don’t have to overthink it. It’s [00:26:29.279] already my style. [00:26:31.840] They’re the one-stop men’s shop for [00:26:33.440] highquality apparel, footwear, gear, and [00:26:36.480] content. A lifestyle and outdoor [00:26:38.480] retailer, sure, but mostly they just get [00:26:42.320] it right. [00:26:46.320] And on days like today, [00:26:48.880] some mysteries can wait. Click the link [00:26:51.039] in my description to shop Huckberry. [00:27:00.000] And even the MiG 31, um, it it went up [00:27:02.880] to 123,000 ft before it ran out of air [00:27:06.640] and had to come back down. So, it was [00:27:08.080] just a test flight just to see how high [00:27:10.080] it would go. I have no idea what the [00:27:12.320] condition of the pilot was, but they [00:27:14.159] went up to 123,000 ft. has the altitude [00:27:17.520] record for an air breathing craft to [00:27:19.200] this day and had to come back down. This [00:27:21.520] is a Mig 31 Foxhound. So, we knew it [00:27:24.320] wasn’t that. Uh we looked at uh another [00:27:26.799] aircraft uh called the uh Sukoy SU34 [00:27:31.440] fullback. It wasn’t that. Um and so we [00:27:36.320] ruled out any kind of air breathing [00:27:38.159] aircraft that would have plasma stealth [00:27:40.480] on it. So, we knew it wasn’t that. And [00:27:42.400] it was also moving an like uh it it was [00:27:46.080] moving intelligently. It was moving [00:27:47.760] intelligently. An aircraft can move [00:27:49.360] intelligently because it’s piloted. But [00:27:51.279] but anomalous anomalously like it was [00:27:54.640] not at that altitude. Right. And it was [00:27:56.480] performing maneuvers that Exactly. I [00:27:59.039] mean it would tear the aircraft apart, [00:28:00.720] right? Uh so we ruled that out and so [00:28:04.080] what’s left over um that’s what they [00:28:06.320] were looking at. What could this be? [00:28:08.480] Mhm. Now, in the course of their study, [00:28:11.120] they asked me for a safe. So, I got them [00:28:13.200] a standard governmentissued safe. They [00:28:16.240] come in two beautiful colors. I call it [00:28:18.480] bureaucratic black. [00:28:20.799] And uh that’s their one of the uh [00:28:23.760] colors. Really? Yeah. And uh so I got [00:28:26.640] him a black safe. That’s it’s a great [00:28:29.600] it’s a great uh clothing line. Uh [00:28:33.520] that comes in bureaucratic black. Yeah. [00:28:35.600] Um and you get you can get a gray one. [00:28:38.000] government gray and bureaucrat black. [00:28:40.000] Government gray, you know, and you look [00:28:42.159] up at the GSA catalog and you’ll see [00:28:44.240] these General Services Administration [00:28:46.480] provides furniture for the government, [00:28:48.000] the entire government. You’ll see these [00:28:49.679] safes and has a combination lock and [00:28:52.399] several drawers and everything. So, I [00:28:54.720] got them a safe and they started getting [00:28:57.279] materials from this working group, [00:28:59.520] compartmented materials on the UFO [00:29:01.840] program. They had to go in the safe. [00:29:04.320] Now, one of my engineers when I was [00:29:05.919] going with this, Bob, one of my [00:29:07.360] engineers was looking at one of the [00:29:09.039] manuals. It was that thick. And he left [00:29:12.159] that on his desk face front just as you [00:29:15.200] have this folder here. And I was able to [00:29:17.120] read the title. [00:29:19.120] And it the title was UFO propulsion [00:29:21.840] systems. Whoa. Manual of operations. [00:29:26.000] So, if you have a UFO propulsion system, [00:29:27.760] manual of operations, that tells me that [00:29:30.399] somebody reverse engineered some craft [00:29:32.720] and it’s that thick. And it’s that [00:29:34.000] thick. All right. So, [00:29:37.039] I have that piece of data. So, what [00:29:39.200] happened to that? What did Well, uh, I [00:29:41.200] looked at the title. Bob had his back [00:29:43.760] turned. He turned around, saw me looking [00:29:45.520] at the title, immediately grabbed that, [00:29:49.760] placed it front cover down so I couldn’t [00:29:52.480] read the cover. Sorry about that, boss. [00:29:55.039] And, and then immediately put it back in [00:29:57.120] the safe and locked it up. Oh my gosh. [00:29:58.960] So I know that they were briefed into [00:30:02.000] something that we already reverse [00:30:04.399] engineered. Whoa. So that lends lends [00:30:06.960] credence to a lot of witnesses saying, [00:30:09.200] “Yes, we have reverse engineered craft.” [00:30:11.360] So I can say based on that manual, and [00:30:13.440] these weren’t like uh defense [00:30:16.399] intelligence reference documents were [00:30:18.640] just like a dozen pages like white [00:30:20.960] papers. Yeah. No, this was a manual. [00:30:23.679] Whoa. Somebody worked on that manual and [00:30:26.960] uh it looked dated in a sense that it [00:30:29.760] looked like not nothing current. Looked [00:30:33.360] like it was like decades old. 50s60s. [00:30:36.399] Well, I would say maybe not 50s. Okay. [00:30:39.120] But maybe 70s, 80s. Sure. About about [00:30:41.760] that time frame. What color was the uh [00:30:44.720] was the book? Uh it was [00:30:48.159] almost that color what you have there. [00:30:49.840] It was like a like DIA drab. There’s [00:30:54.000] another good one. DIA draft. It’s It’s [00:30:56.080] like DIA published a lot of manuals that [00:30:58.640] are very thick. Mhm. And they come in [00:31:00.799] different colors. I don’t know if the [00:31:02.080] colors mean anything. Yeah. Um but the [00:31:06.159] point being that it was a manual, not a [00:31:09.360] white paper, not a not a um talking [00:31:12.159] points or anything like that. Yeah. It [00:31:14.000] was a manual. Somebody did some actual [00:31:16.159] work on a UFO propulsion system to the [00:31:20.720] point that they were able to write a [00:31:22.080] manual of operation for it. That’s [00:31:24.640] incredible and seems like an incredible [00:31:27.279] oversight on Bob’s behalf to just leave [00:31:29.679] that lying around. Yes. And had I looked [00:31:31.840] into it, had I opened it, Uhhuh. I would [00:31:34.559] be charged with a security violation. [00:31:36.559] Right. Cuz Bob would have to he’s he [00:31:38.640] would have to report me. But seeing the [00:31:41.279] title was okay. um inadvertent, right? [00:31:44.559] Inadvertent. And then he took measures [00:31:46.240] to to secure the I see document. He [00:31:49.679] would have been reprimanded anyways as [00:31:51.360] well, obviously. That is uh that’s [00:31:53.679] crazy. Is there is there a part of you [00:31:57.039] that regrets not being read into that [00:31:59.679] like for your own sort of knowing? Not [00:32:02.799] at all. Because um you have a building a [00:32:06.320] CIA headquarters in our many many [00:32:08.240] outuildings. We’re not just at CIA [00:32:09.840] headquarters. There are several [00:32:10.799] buildings in Northern Virginia that [00:32:12.799] constitute CIA. Um, [00:32:16.080] not at all because [00:32:19.600] I would say that being read into it um [00:32:23.679] would have prevented me from speaking [00:32:25.120] out, but we are an intelligence agency [00:32:29.679] and you have intelligence analysts and [00:32:32.640] collectors [00:32:34.720] working there. And what we do best is [00:32:37.039] collect intelligence. So, you can be in [00:32:38.640] the building, not read into something, [00:32:40.480] and be able to discern what’s going on [00:32:43.200] if you’re very clever about it. There’s [00:32:45.440] enough [00:32:47.120] uh water cooler cafeteria talk that you [00:32:50.080] pick up on things. Wow. So, I didn’t [00:32:52.960] need to be read into it. I knew enough [00:32:54.720] based on my earlier career of working [00:32:57.279] with these domes of light phenomenon um [00:33:00.320] and working with that particular radar. [00:33:03.279] um actually met a woman who is uh an [00:33:06.480] operations officer and she complained to [00:33:08.240] me, I got sent up to this mountain and [00:33:10.320] they told me to look for these domes of [00:33:12.559] light and I apologized to her and said, [00:33:14.159] “Yeah, that was us.” Yeah, we needed [00:33:17.039] collection uh a human collection um [00:33:19.919] using one of our operations officers to [00:33:22.720] go up a mountain, set up and look for [00:33:25.200] these domes of light. We also had a [00:33:27.679] collection system we built. Was that [00:33:29.600] successful? I’m not sure because she [00:33:31.760] didn’t tell me whether she found [00:33:33.039] anything or not. Oh, wow. So, you were [00:33:34.559] able to send her out, but you weren’t [00:33:35.679] able to find out whether she saw I met [00:33:37.039] her um not as a planned meeting, but we [00:33:40.000] were taking the same course and the [00:33:41.760] course had nothing to do with UAPs or [00:33:43.840] anything. Huh. But she was in the same [00:33:45.840] course and um so she can play, you know, [00:33:49.360] the craziest thing I ever did in my CIA [00:33:51.360] career so far, and she was a a younger [00:33:53.519] woman uh was they sent me up in a [00:33:55.760] mountain. I was looking for these domes [00:33:57.279] of light. I don’t know what that was. [00:33:58.720] And I explained to her, “Oh yeah, it’s [00:34:01.360] about these anomalous objects that we [00:34:03.279] detected over the Soviet Union. That’s [00:34:05.440] why you were sent out there.” And I [00:34:06.799] apologized to her. Sorry. Wow. She said [00:34:08.879] that was a pretty pretty rough um kind [00:34:11.440] of mission for her to go on. Wow. So [00:34:13.839] strange. So yeah, so to answer your [00:34:16.480] question, I had enough information a a [00:34:19.359] priority to know that there was [00:34:20.879] something going on. Had enough uh [00:34:23.200] ability to um collect other data. [00:34:26.879] example, um, Russian early warning, uh, [00:34:29.679] ballistic missile early warning system [00:34:31.599] detected these these orbs and they [00:34:35.520] thought that it was US sneak attack and [00:34:37.760] so they brought up their alert level and [00:34:40.000] when they bring up their alert level, we [00:34:41.520] can detect the fact that they brought up [00:34:44.240] their alert level and you have these [00:34:46.159] missiles uh, that were needed to be [00:34:49.280] preped and so there are certain [00:34:51.200] indications that we are able to detect a [00:34:54.000] launch might be occurring. Yeah, it’s [00:34:56.960] hard to hide the signature of a major [00:35:00.480] retaliatory strike, right? So, they were [00:35:02.880] prepping. They didn’t go all the way up [00:35:05.119] to Defcon, their version of Defcon to [00:35:09.359] actually start launching, but we were [00:35:12.480] able to detect that. And so, because we [00:35:14.960] were able to detect it, uh, Washington [00:35:17.119] called Moscow and saying, “What the [00:35:18.400] hell’s going on with you guys?” So, what [00:35:20.640] the hell is going on with you guys? What [00:35:22.480] are these things? And we don’t know what [00:35:23.920] they are. So, you know, there’s there’s [00:35:25.680] a ability at the National Military [00:35:28.400] Command Center in the Pentagon. Yeah. To [00:35:30.480] communicate with their counterparts [00:35:32.320] because there is there is a treaty sort [00:35:34.480] of like an agreement in regards to [00:35:36.960] nuclear arms. Well, start treaty that [00:35:40.320] exactly that if there is any detected [00:35:42.960] anomalous or unidentified objects as [00:35:46.079] it’s put in the treaty that they tell [00:35:48.240] each other about it instead of [00:35:50.000] retaliating immediately. Exactly. So, [00:35:52.640] that mechanism worked. Mhm. at that [00:35:54.640] point and they were able to lower their [00:35:56.560] alert level. But then comes the [00:35:58.720] question, what were those things that we [00:36:00.960] detected that the Russians detected? [00:36:03.040] Right. Right. And so that’s when I wrote [00:36:04.880] the memo to uh at that time he served as [00:36:07.839] the deputy secretary of defense, John [00:36:09.920] Deutsch. Mhm. And so I wrote him a memo [00:36:12.720] because his briefer was asked by him, [00:36:16.640] we want to know what happened in this [00:36:18.800] particular incident. So it came to my [00:36:21.119] branch which looked at the [00:36:23.040] anti-bballistic missile systems, the [00:36:24.960] ballistic missile defense systems in [00:36:26.640] Russia. So it landed on my desk and I [00:36:29.040] wrote up the memo for uh Deputy [00:36:31.520] Secretary of Defense John Deutsch and um [00:36:35.520] we’re going to give we were going to [00:36:36.880] give it to the briefer, but I think we [00:36:38.960] actually delivered it in person. I see. [00:36:41.680] My colleague and I um we delivered it in [00:36:44.400] person to the Pentagon, so they’re aware [00:36:46.400] of it. Mhm. Um that’s I mean that’s [00:36:49.680] really fascinating and it seems you know [00:36:52.400] it doesn’t it it doesn’t surprise me at [00:36:54.160] all like when you hear about all all [00:36:55.760] this stuff you know as much as I want it [00:36:57.200] to surprise me I’m like yeah it’s [00:36:59.040] obviously you know obviously if you guys [00:37:00.800] have the capability with all of the [00:37:03.200] intel collection devices that you have [00:37:05.520] whether it’s satellite or whether it’s [00:37:06.960] human intel or whether it’s you know [00:37:08.240] remote viewing or whatever it is you’re [00:37:10.160] going to see something eventually right [00:37:12.640] um this brings me to something that [00:37:14.560] happened to you in 2001 one. Yes. I want [00:37:17.760] to talk about this because this to me is [00:37:19.440] one of the most fascinating little tales [00:37:21.839] that I’ve ever heard in that you were [00:37:25.359] invited by, let me get this straight [00:37:27.760] here just to make sure I got my ducks in [00:37:29.839] a row. Um, you encountered an officer [00:37:33.119] within the office of the chief [00:37:34.560] scientists in the director of science [00:37:36.000] and technology [00:37:37.839] and that he told you about a symposium [00:37:39.760] that was being held that you should [00:37:41.680] attend. Mhm. And this symposium, if I’m [00:37:44.800] not mistaken, was uh at BDM. No. No. [00:37:48.320] Where? Uh this was at a hotel. Oh, this [00:37:50.560] was at a hotel. Yep. It’s uh it’s in [00:37:53.280] Tyson’s Corner, Virginia. Oh, and um [00:37:56.800] Wait. Okay. So, this is separate from [00:37:58.960] the other meeting. I see that. That was [00:38:00.800] a separate meeting. That was separate. [00:38:02.160] Okay. Well, we we’ll get to that one. [00:38:03.599] But this one at the hotel, is that [00:38:05.359] something standard that happens like [00:38:07.280] these briefings in these hotels, these [00:38:09.040] symposiums? is that hotels seem to be [00:38:11.599] the place to discuss this stuff. I don’t [00:38:14.240] know why. Um I know Lulu Lzando has [00:38:17.359] stated that you know he met people at a [00:38:19.119] hotel. Mhm. Yep. Uh I think it was the [00:38:22.560] Marriott Gateway in Rosland, Virginia. [00:38:24.720] He mentions that one and other hotels. I [00:38:26.720] I don’t know what it is about hotels and [00:38:28.720] tele community, but we like going to [00:38:30.480] hotels. Okay. I don’t know why, but uh [00:38:33.040] this was an unclassified uh one day [00:38:35.200] symposium. I had no idea what the topic [00:38:37.200] was. the officer from the office of [00:38:40.240] chief scientist. I use first names. His [00:38:42.320] first name was Tom. [00:38:44.480] Uh I might use the last initials because [00:38:46.240] we usually refer to ourselves as like [00:38:48.240] I’m known as John R and the CIA. We use [00:38:50.960] first name and last initial. Tom K. [00:38:53.839] Okay. Out there Tom. Hi. But you know, [00:38:56.720] Tom K invited me. And uh I had no idea [00:38:59.839] what it was about, but he knew I was [00:39:01.839] interested. And how did he know? because [00:39:04.160] I had a plush toy of a a green bendable [00:39:08.800] plush toy I set up on my old-fashioned, [00:39:12.320] you know, CRT Dell monitor. Uhhuh. And [00:39:15.440] it was a gray alien, but it was colored [00:39:17.839] green. It was It’s just a toy, right? [00:39:19.920] So, he knew he was interested in that. [00:39:21.680] And um so he invited me said, “You might [00:39:24.240] want to show up this one.” Was Was he [00:39:26.720] interested in this stuff? I don’t know. [00:39:29.440] We I never really followed up with him [00:39:31.280] to see what his interest was. Okay. Um [00:39:33.839] but he knew I was interested and so um [00:39:37.359] he ran something called the posttock [00:39:39.200] program at CIA where we we sponsored um [00:39:43.440] post-doal studies of these PhDs [00:39:46.560] and they were invited as well. It wasn’t [00:39:49.359] the invisible college or anything. These [00:39:51.359] are just uh PhDs that CIA sponsored for [00:39:55.920] their PhDs and then they’re following [00:39:57.839] through. Yeah. Possibly later to offer [00:40:00.000] them jobs. Yeah. Recruits. And that’s a [00:40:02.480] good way to think about it. Yeah. [00:40:03.680] Recruits even like I mean you hear about [00:40:06.000] this and I don’t want to use the term [00:40:07.440] grooming but it’s like you hear about a [00:40:09.440] lot of this as well in the intelligence [00:40:10.880] community that they vet a lot of uh [00:40:13.359] young people um early on that show a [00:40:16.640] significant talent. Um Harold Malgren [00:40:19.359] being you know um comes to mind because [00:40:22.240] that seemed like that was his process as [00:40:24.560] well. So that’s nothing new. So go to [00:40:27.520] the hotel [00:40:29.200] um up to this um ballroom. I guess you [00:40:31.760] would call it a conference room in this [00:40:33.520] hotel in Tyson’s Corner and um there [00:40:36.400] were no security officers there look for [00:40:40.240] no and I just wrapped my badge up and [00:40:42.720] put it in my pocket because I didn’t [00:40:44.160] need a badge to attend and I sat myself [00:40:47.440] down and there was an agenda being [00:40:48.960] passed out and a signup sheet and I [00:40:51.200] signed my name uh full true full name uh [00:40:55.200] my phone number at CIA and where I [00:40:57.280] worked at CIA all that it was in there. [00:40:59.280] looked at the other names and there were [00:41:00.880] like people from universities because [00:41:04.000] they had.edu as their email address. I [00:41:06.560] see. And their full names. I then [00:41:09.280] noticed that other than Tom K, it was [00:41:12.640] another officer I knew, Jim L. Jim L is [00:41:17.040] significant in that he chaired the [00:41:19.280] scientific and technical intelligence [00:41:21.359] committee, one of the major committees [00:41:24.000] in the uh back when the DCI ran the [00:41:27.599] intelligence community. So, this is a [00:41:29.440] major committee. Um, and he was there as [00:41:32.319] well and I I know him from my own parent [00:41:35.920] office. Um, he was there and I don’t [00:41:38.720] know I didn’t recognize anyone else. Um, [00:41:41.359] but [00:41:42.880] uh I can use his full name, John [00:41:45.280] Phillips. He’s he’s out in public as a [00:41:47.680] former uh chief of the office of chief [00:41:50.560] scientists. In fact, he was the very [00:41:52.079] first office of the chief scientist [00:41:54.960] head. Wow. uh before that office was [00:41:57.920] named something else and he was present [00:41:59.599] as well. He was present and he [00:42:01.280] introduced [00:42:02.880] another gentleman that I knew uh Gerald [00:42:05.440] K. Haynes. [00:42:07.280] Now Gerald Haynes is C was CIA’s [00:42:09.920] historian. He was also in a row [00:42:11.599] historian. He was the run that wrote uh [00:42:14.000] the paper about CIA UFO interest from [00:42:17.280] 1947 to 1990. Wow. It’s out there now. I [00:42:20.960] there’s two versions of that. One is a [00:42:23.520] public version, one is a classified [00:42:25.119] version. I got the classified version [00:42:27.839] and um so he was there and he was the [00:42:31.119] one presenting. So he’s the one that [00:42:33.119] presented on what CIA did with UFOs [00:42:36.400] going back to 1947. But this is an [00:42:38.800] unclassified setting. Mhm. [00:42:42.480] at at what point did you think that the [00:42:44.720] information that was being [00:42:47.280] um talked about [00:42:50.000] should be classified or unclassified? [00:42:52.560] Because I’m I’m I’m going to let you [00:42:54.720] continue the story because this gets [00:42:56.000] really really bizarre and it gets quite [00:42:59.119] um disturbing a little bit even of I’m [00:43:02.160] just really surprised to hear the amount [00:43:04.160] of people that are there that had [00:43:05.520] credentials like this was it feels like [00:43:08.160] this was of some importance at least to [00:43:11.760] people in positions of, you know, uh, [00:43:14.560] seemingly importance. You would think [00:43:16.800] so. Yes. And I don’t know why I was [00:43:18.319] there because compared to these other [00:43:20.000] gentlemen, I was not that important. [00:43:21.760] Mhm. Um, but I was invited and I [00:43:24.560] attended and so um, the paper that uh, [00:43:29.599] General Haynes wrote was approved by CIA [00:43:33.359] because it was released and that’s why [00:43:35.599] you have it now. You can search for it. [00:43:37.520] Do a Google search for it and you you’ll [00:43:39.200] find it. So that that uncclassified [00:43:41.440] version is released. So he was talking [00:43:43.280] about that and he said something very [00:43:45.440] interesting. He said a lot he said that [00:43:48.240] when we were testing the U2 and A12 they [00:43:51.920] were silver [00:43:53.920] and they only operated in broad [00:43:55.599] daylight. Why was not were they painted [00:43:59.280] black and why not at night to hide them? [00:44:02.319] Simple explanation. The cameras back in [00:44:04.720] those days didn’t have night vision. [00:44:06.960] Mhm. So, you know, they needed daylight [00:44:09.599] to photograph anything on the ground. [00:44:11.839] And that’s how they tested the cameras [00:44:13.359] and the systems um in broad daylight. [00:44:16.240] And they’re silver. You can see them. [00:44:18.319] You can track them. Easier to track. But [00:44:20.240] these are airplanes. These are Yeah. [00:44:22.400] advanced airplanes. U2 for 1955. Yeah. [00:44:26.560] U2 was very advanced. A12 definitely [00:44:29.760] looks very advanced. And that first A12 [00:44:33.280] um came on boarded uh 1962. [00:44:37.760] And so broad daylight and people would [00:44:40.319] see these objects up in the sky. They [00:44:43.200] were flying at 70,000 for the U2 and [00:44:46.400] like over around about 85,000 for the [00:44:49.280] A12. [00:44:51.200] And there was these silver streaks up in [00:44:52.800] the sky. Um, people were reporting UFOs [00:44:57.359] and when people reported UFOs to the [00:44:59.760] local authorities or to a radio station [00:45:02.319] or TV station or whatever you what have [00:45:04.480] you, newspapers, uh, that piqued our [00:45:06.640] interest. We wanted to know what they [00:45:08.240] were seeing. Mhm. What did you see? [00:45:12.000] Describe what you see. Um because we [00:45:14.720] don’t know we wanted to know what these [00:45:16.720] craft would look like to an observer [00:45:19.920] knowing nothing about the program to [00:45:22.240] develop these aircraft. What are they [00:45:24.880] perceiving from the ground looking up? [00:45:26.720] Sure. And so we got those reports. Now [00:45:29.440] that started the men in black legend [00:45:32.079] when we were visiting the CIA officers [00:45:35.359] uh some of them uh showed had air force [00:45:38.160] credentials. [00:45:40.000] Mhm. And they were presenting themselves [00:45:41.520] as air force even though they were CIA. [00:45:44.319] This was what years? This was the ’ 60s. [00:45:46.240] Yeah. This is like um starting from the [00:45:48.560] very first uh in in the 50s late 50s. [00:45:51.440] Yeah. Because Rex Chaplan as well is was [00:45:53.440] you know visited um by gentlemen as [00:45:57.200] well. So like I mean you you would [00:45:58.720] assume the same department that visited [00:46:00.880] people for explainable aerial phenomenon [00:46:04.640] would also be sent out when [00:46:08.720] UFOs were spotted. It would be the same [00:46:10.560] people. I would I would imagine so I [00:46:12.400] would imagine they would have a um [00:46:14.640] professional background [00:46:16.800] um in the entire topic because they were [00:46:19.599] reporting UFOs. So obviously people who [00:46:22.640] actually know about UFOs would find out [00:46:24.720] you know what did you see? Mhm. Um so [00:46:27.520] they were reporting these um aircraft as [00:46:30.800] UFOs. Now unlike the Air Force which [00:46:33.839] encourages you to believe they’re UFOs, [00:46:35.920] CIA did not they did not dissuade their [00:46:39.760] belief that they were UFOs [00:46:42.400] and they would [00:46:44.480] act like muon investigators in the sense [00:46:47.200] that they would take in the data, right? [00:46:49.040] We just want to know what you saw. We’re [00:46:50.560] going to take in the data. Thank you [00:46:51.920] very much. Yeah. Thank you for your [00:46:53.599] patriotism and reporting this to the [00:46:55.680] government so forth and so on, right? [00:46:57.200] Yeah. But we didn’t you didn’t give them [00:46:59.680] a cover story. Did not give them a cover [00:47:01.920] story. We just wanted to know what you [00:47:03.440] saw. If they saw a UFO, fine. Yep. But [00:47:06.720] they did. The CIA did not deliberately [00:47:09.920] tell people you saw a UFO, right? Or [00:47:12.160] don’t say anything. Don’t say no. Okay. [00:47:14.480] We just want the information. Um, so [00:47:17.440] that occurred uh throughout the 50s uh [00:47:20.400] during the YouTube program and through [00:47:22.000] the 60s up to 64 when we actually [00:47:24.400] deployed the A12 operationally, mid60s I [00:47:27.920] would say. Um, so that and that’s what [00:47:31.280] the seminar was about up until then. Up [00:47:33.119] until then. Yeah. And so yeah, he said [00:47:35.680] but one in 10 [00:47:38.400] Gerald K. Hayne said one in 10 were [00:47:40.960] UFOs. [00:47:43.040] We have case files of real UFOs that one [00:47:46.480] in 10 sightings Mhm. were actual UFOs. [00:47:50.319] That’s a high number. That’s 10%. Yeah. [00:47:52.640] Yeah. Um and so [00:47:57.040] going back and thinking about wow, you [00:47:59.680] know, the CIA knew that there was [00:48:01.760] something up there that were real UFOs. [00:48:04.960] And this is like more of the public side [00:48:07.200] of CIA that that it’s still classified [00:48:09.760] side of CIA but not the program side. [00:48:12.160] Sure. Of CIA, right? Yeah. It’s not [00:48:14.400] deep. It’s not deep. It’s just [00:48:17.119] interesting information that you you saw [00:48:20.079] a UFO and that 10% of them couldn’t be [00:48:22.319] explained. Yeah. Um so the second part [00:48:26.640] of that discussion was about [00:48:30.319] beings [00:48:32.319] that there were aliens. there were [00:48:34.400] actual aliens and that [00:48:37.760] um they were able to collect DNA from [00:48:42.559] aliens and that’s when they discovered [00:48:45.440] and this didn’t happen in 47 happened [00:48:48.079] later probably they had tissue samples [00:48:50.640] or whatever that they’ve stored and they [00:48:54.000] were able to recover DNA and when we [00:48:57.280] discovered how to sequence the human [00:48:59.200] genome [00:49:00.960] and we sequenced the alien DNA and And [00:49:03.520] we discovered that, oh, there are [00:49:04.880] markers in there that look very human, [00:49:09.359] human hybrids. H um that what looks like [00:49:14.000] an alien [00:49:15.839] has for some reason has um human genetic [00:49:19.920] markers in their DNA in the genome. And [00:49:23.839] so I found that to be interesting. And [00:49:25.599] to answer your question, that’s when I [00:49:27.119] thought this sounds pretty classified to [00:49:29.760] me. This is coming from a CIA historian. [00:49:33.119] A CIA historian. Yes. [00:49:35.839] Like that comes with some weight behind [00:49:37.520] it. This isn’t going to a UFO conference [00:49:40.720] and and you know somebody like me going [00:49:43.119] up there and talking about hybrids. This [00:49:45.119] is an official CIA historian with [00:49:48.720] background, with checked credentials, [00:49:50.720] with clearances, [00:49:52.800] telling a group of other individuals [00:49:55.040] from universities, from different [00:49:56.640] departments in the in the defense uh [00:49:59.200] intelligence agencies about [00:50:02.160] hybridization programs, right? And I I [00:50:04.960] would say this uh I would preface that [00:50:06.640] with like I don’t think there were other [00:50:09.760] members of the intelligence community [00:50:11.280] there. I think there were only CIA [00:50:12.960] officers and these postoc gotcha folks [00:50:17.920] uh that we sponsored. Do you do you [00:50:20.160] think now we’re going to go more into [00:50:22.079] this uh hybrid thing because I want to [00:50:24.160] hear what they had to say about that? I [00:50:26.160] think it’s very fascinating, but do you [00:50:28.319] think at any point before we get into [00:50:30.079] this that you might have been led into [00:50:33.599] some weird honey trap situation where [00:50:36.319] they give you passage material? Do you [00:50:38.400] think that that because I know a lot of [00:50:39.920] the audience is going to be like, “Oh, [00:50:41.200] maybe this is a whole setup or [00:50:42.559] something.” Did that ever cross your [00:50:43.920] mind. Did that ever feel never crossed [00:50:45.200] my mind? Never crossed my mind. No. [00:50:47.280] Yeah. It didn’t feel like that at all. [00:50:49.119] Mm- Okay. Not at all. Um because when [00:50:53.520] there’s passage material, we actually [00:50:55.119] read into the passage material. And my [00:50:58.000] explanation for that is this that I was [00:50:59.760] involved in uh some covert programs [00:51:03.839] and it required me to be overseas uh [00:51:06.319] undercover with a different name, [00:51:08.800] different complete different biography, [00:51:11.440] complete different history. I was sent [00:51:13.440] overseas with actual documents [00:51:16.240] and I was told that if you’re stopped [00:51:18.480] even by um you know customs when you’re [00:51:21.200] coming back to the United States or the [00:51:23.440] other customs of the foreign country [00:51:24.800] you’re going to that we want you to have [00:51:27.680] a cover story. You have to have a cover [00:51:29.520] legend and you can use these cover [00:51:31.920] legends depending on the circumstance. [00:51:34.319] So I was given the passage material to [00:51:36.319] pass on and also um [00:51:40.319] I would say that because of the nature [00:51:42.400] of that symposium uh I discounted that [00:51:46.000] completely because of who was there. [00:51:48.319] Understood. And and and what was [00:51:50.960] everyone else’s reaction to this news? [00:51:54.960] I was surprised that there was no [00:51:56.640] reaction. Huh. And I didn’t even have a [00:51:58.880] reaction. I just took it all in. I [00:52:01.200] thought to myself, hm, sounds a little [00:52:02.800] classified to me, but I was interested [00:52:05.359] in what General Haynes has to say about [00:52:08.079] the hybridization, alien DNA, CIA’s [00:52:11.440] interest in aliens. Okay, let’s get into [00:52:14.960] this a little bit more because now now [00:52:17.680] this is becoming very very um very [00:52:21.520] interesting because this this connects [00:52:23.280] with so many other stories of you know, [00:52:25.680] experiencers and everything else. So the [00:52:28.800] CIA is basically [00:52:31.119] giving this presentation in an [00:52:32.720] unofficial UNC sorry in in an [00:52:34.800] unclassified capacity about [00:52:39.520] sequences in the DNA of the Roswell [00:52:42.240] aliens that are connecting human DNA. I [00:52:47.280] assume they were Roswell aliens. I would [00:52:49.359] say they were they were nonhumans. They [00:52:51.520] were nonhumans. Non-humans. Whether they [00:52:53.359] were collected from um the Roswell crash [00:52:56.720] or other retrievals, [00:52:59.040] I don’t know. Okay. But the interest, [00:53:02.400] the key phrase that Gerald Haynes used [00:53:04.720] was [00:53:07.200] since World War II, after World War II, [00:53:11.520] we were interested [00:53:13.599] in alien DNA, particularly found in [00:53:17.520] humans. [00:53:19.119] At that time, I didn’t know anything [00:53:20.800] about magenta. had no knowledge of [00:53:23.119] magenta of that craft and that retrieval [00:53:26.800] had no knowledge that we may have had [00:53:28.640] the [00:53:30.400] craft itself with as David Gush would [00:53:33.040] call biologics on board. But he said [00:53:35.680] after World War II so that in hindsight [00:53:39.119] makes sense that okay maybe you know [00:53:41.680] that’s where it came from or other [00:53:43.359] retrievalss where there were um beings [00:53:46.160] on board. Yeah, because allegedly the [00:53:48.400] crash in Italy in Magento, which [00:53:51.040] happened in 33, wasn’t sent to the [00:53:53.680] United States until Pope Pas agreed to [00:53:56.160] send it in 45. Yeah. 44 4545. 44 45. So [00:54:00.079] that would have been what he was talking [00:54:02.160] about. But didn’t and and maybe I’m [00:54:04.800] mistaken here, but I heard and this is [00:54:06.800] uncorroborated evidence or speculative [00:54:09.920] at best, but that the beings on board of [00:54:12.000] the Magenta craft were humanoid looking. [00:54:16.240] They were like tall blondes. Mhm. Uh so [00:54:19.200] I hear was that at all mentioned during [00:54:21.520] the symposium? No. No. Was was the type [00:54:24.720] of alien mentioned? No. Okay. And in my [00:54:27.599] mind I was thinking of the traditional [00:54:29.359] what I’ll call traditional gray being. [00:54:32.319] That’s what I had in my mind. [00:54:35.040] But um no, he didn’t mention exactly [00:54:37.119] what kind of being. But what he said [00:54:39.520] about their interest, CIA’s interest in [00:54:42.720] these [00:54:44.240] uh in these beings and uh human DNA, [00:54:48.319] yeah, in their genome was what I caught [00:54:51.520] because what he said afterwards rang all [00:54:54.000] kinds of like, oh, this sounds really [00:54:56.000] classified. [00:54:57.680] And that was the CIA had a program [00:55:02.319] to trace this alien DNA in certain [00:55:07.200] families [00:55:09.040] in the United States. And he mentioned a [00:55:12.800] particular region that this research [00:55:15.040] occurred in the northeast [00:55:17.920] United States. He won’t go any further [00:55:20.000] than that. that certain families and [00:55:24.319] particularly their children were of [00:55:27.200] interest to CIA. [00:55:30.800] I don’t know, I didn’t know what to make [00:55:32.640] of it back then, but you start talk [00:55:36.559] talking about the gate program and um [00:55:39.599] subsequent uh studies of children and [00:55:43.040] their capabilities and their abilities [00:55:45.280] to do certain psionic things um that now [00:55:50.240] comes to my mind. since um since that [00:55:52.559] was brought out more recently. [00:55:55.280] So the CIA was interested in potentially [00:56:00.480] tracking the activity of hybrids, human [00:56:05.280] alien hybrids in the United States that [00:56:07.520] and going back in in their lineage as [00:56:10.079] well. In their lineage, right? And going [00:56:11.839] back in their ancestry as well. I don’t [00:56:14.960] know how they collected this DNA. Um, [00:56:18.720] you know, we have oversight now, and [00:56:20.480] that oversight started in the mid70s. [00:56:22.640] Congressional oversight. [00:56:24.880] This sounded like it occurred before [00:56:26.400] there was congressional oversight [00:56:27.680] because you couldn’t do that today. [00:56:29.119] Yeah. No, it would be illegal. Yes. [00:56:31.440] Completely. Um, so this may have [00:56:34.720] occurred earlier, right? That they were [00:56:37.680] interested and then um when we developed [00:56:40.160] in the ‘9s, we developed uh the ability [00:56:42.480] to sequence the human genome completely. [00:56:45.359] uh that may have furthered uh the uh [00:56:48.480] investigation into the alien DNA. Um [00:56:54.960] is has there ever been and feel free to [00:56:58.559] answer this with a one-word answer. Has [00:57:01.280] there ever been a situation that you [00:57:02.720] were in where you’ve gotten confirmation [00:57:06.720] of [00:57:09.040] the [00:57:11.040] government’s involvement with human [00:57:13.040] alien hybrids? [00:57:15.680] Yes. Okay. [00:57:18.160] In an in and from a credible source, you [00:57:20.880] can say yes. Okay. [00:57:23.839] So, they know about the hybrids. Yes. [00:57:27.040] Okay. And you and you would I mean gun [00:57:29.520] to your head right now, you would you [00:57:30.720] would say absolutely. Absolutely. Yes. [00:57:33.359] Wow. [00:57:36.480] That’s I mean that’s something that’s uh [00:57:41.599] you know my my mind races to all the [00:57:44.400] different cases that I hear right we [00:57:46.559] hear about so many so many so many [00:57:49.680] people talk about this and so many [00:57:51.119] researchers look into this from Bud [00:57:52.880] Hopkins to David Jacobs to you know John [00:57:55.359] Mack and John Carpenter all these [00:57:57.760] researchers who’ve looked into [00:58:00.799] um abduction phenomena experiencers and [00:58:04.160] the one thing that a lot of people I [00:58:05.839] think find interesting is the [00:58:07.040] interaction with these humanlike Mhm. [00:58:10.960] aliens. Yes. For lack of a better term. [00:58:15.200] Um, [00:58:16.720] now [00:58:18.400] is there anything else during that [00:58:19.760] symposium that might have, you know, [00:58:22.880] caught your attention about the human [00:58:25.040] hybrid program? [00:58:27.440] None about that program itself. uh other [00:58:29.520] than the fact of the interest and the [00:58:31.839] further investigation into family [00:58:34.400] lineages that certain families tend to [00:58:36.799] have a propensity for um this [00:58:40.400] hybridization to have occurred [00:58:43.040] um on behalf of the NHI. Let’s let’s be [00:58:46.559] clear here like this hybridization that [00:58:48.799] we’re talking about isn’t humans taking [00:58:51.119] No. No. It’s it’s like [00:58:54.160] maybe in their family’s history they [00:58:57.040] were taken, right? And then their DNA [00:59:00.559] DNA may have been somehow enhanced. I [00:59:05.599] don’t know what word to use. Altered. [00:59:07.839] Altered. Um I’m speculating here. I I [00:59:10.640] admit this is speculation. I don’t know [00:59:12.400] how they do it. I’m not um versed in [00:59:16.640] anything to do with genetics. I’m not a [00:59:19.040] scientist about genetics. I don’t know. [00:59:20.960] Um, but it seems to have been um a [00:59:27.119] a history of certain families having [00:59:31.359] certain DNA of interest now to CIA [00:59:35.920] because of the alien connection to that [00:59:38.400] DNA. [00:59:42.400] Do [00:59:43.920] are some of these families aware, do you [00:59:45.680] think? I don’t know. [00:59:49.760] Okay. [00:59:50.960] Wow. [00:59:53.119] Now, on a perhaps related note, and [00:59:57.440] again, let me know how comfortable you [00:59:59.520] feel about talking about this, but [01:00:01.280] you’ve had experiences. Yes. Yeah. From [01:00:03.520] a young age. Yes. Um, [01:00:07.920] if you’re willing, would you be willing [01:00:09.440] to open up a little bit about what those [01:00:10.799] experience were like and what the what [01:00:13.440] the interactions were like? Sure. Okay. [01:00:16.720] Um, [01:00:18.400] my first I won’t say it’s an experience [01:00:20.960] in a traditional sense of experiencers [01:00:23.440] with with non-humans, but my first [01:00:27.200] inclination occurred when I was four [01:00:29.040] years old. Um, I saw through a telescope [01:00:31.920] for the first time in my young life and [01:00:34.079] I was fascinated by what I saw, stars, [01:00:37.200] planets, um, the moon. Um, and I felt [01:00:40.400] like I belonged out there, not here. I [01:00:43.680] had this feeling of longing to go out [01:00:45.680] there because that’s that’s my home. I [01:00:47.680] don’t know why I’m here at a young age. [01:00:50.880] And then um [01:00:54.000] I recalled being taken somewhere and it [01:00:59.040] seemed like I I don’t know if it was a [01:01:01.359] dream or it actually occurred but I was [01:01:04.559] taken repeatedly at least three times [01:01:07.440] that I know of uh to a home [01:01:11.920] and this home was like set in a [01:01:15.440] Victorian kind of setting you know it’s [01:01:17.280] not like a modern home in I would say [01:01:19.359] the late 50s early60s [01:01:21.280] It wasn’t the late 50s, early 60s [01:01:23.440] rancher that everyone seemed to have [01:01:25.920] lived in back in that time, but this was [01:01:28.400] a Victorian home in the sense that, you [01:01:30.319] know, it had the turret on one side and [01:01:33.040] wraparound porch. It looked like [01:01:34.799] something from the 1890s, early 1900s, [01:01:38.240] and I was led by a woman, not my mother, [01:01:41.440] um going through the through the gate. [01:01:46.000] It was fenced through the gate to the [01:01:48.319] house uh on the porch and then she led [01:01:51.680] me to a room on the leftand side and [01:01:54.880] there was a doctor’s office and so I [01:01:57.280] remember being examined undressed [01:01:59.440] examined by a doctor accompanied by a [01:02:03.040] nurse not the woman who took me but [01:02:04.960] another nurse and everything around [01:02:07.359] there looked very old like something [01:02:10.880] from vintage let’s say like maybe from [01:02:14.079] the Victorian era. [01:02:15.599] Um, and I remember [01:02:18.640] vaguely of being injected by something [01:02:21.760] that there was a hypodermic needle [01:02:24.960] involved in a syringe [01:02:27.280] and then being dressed again and being [01:02:29.520] led out of the house again by the same [01:02:31.520] woman who took me and then that memory [01:02:34.079] would like fade. And this memory [01:02:36.559] happened twice [01:02:38.480] on the first floor and once on the [01:02:40.240] second floor. similar situation. I asked [01:02:43.440] my mother about, you know, did she take [01:02:45.599] me to the doctor and she said, “No, I [01:02:47.200] never took you to anything like that.” [01:02:50.079] Um, that was my very first memory. And [01:02:52.559] then other memories I had was being in a [01:02:56.000] um early 1960s department store. They [01:02:59.920] were called Five and Dimes back then. [01:03:02.799] And it was a a bin of books. And I love [01:03:05.920] books. So my parents um they wouldn’t [01:03:08.720] buy me toys but if I wanted a book I can [01:03:10.960] get a book anytime I want it. So I was [01:03:13.760] thumbming through these books and one [01:03:15.760] book I opened I recall vividly as I open [01:03:19.839] this book on this page on the lower left [01:03:22.880] hand side there was a drawing of [01:03:28.000] a caveman and a cave woman holding a [01:03:31.520] human baby up. The woman was holding a [01:03:34.640] human baby up and above that baby was a [01:03:38.160] flying what we would call a flying [01:03:39.599] saucer beaming a light on it. And I [01:03:42.960] received a message saying this is who [01:03:46.240] you are. This is where you came from. [01:03:50.079] And I said, I want this book. So closed [01:03:54.160] the book, put it in a place that I could [01:03:56.240] get it. There’s very few people around. [01:03:59.280] And this is just random book there. And [01:04:01.440] I went to get my mother. I want this [01:04:03.119] book. And went to the same book bin. [01:04:07.440] Couldn’t find a book. Disappeared where [01:04:09.680] I laid it. There was no one around to [01:04:12.400] pick that book up and buy it for [01:04:13.920] themselves. That was another experience [01:04:16.079] I had of some kind of messaging [01:04:17.920] occurring. And this wasn’t a dream. This [01:04:20.720] was an actual I remember this happening. [01:04:24.880] Um, and then just feeling like I lived [01:04:27.359] before. Mhm. I had past lives before. [01:04:32.640] um at a young age at a young age and [01:04:35.520] then seeing my very first craft and was [01:04:38.960] uh with my cousins [01:04:41.039] uh my uncle uh was in the US Army. He’s [01:04:43.760] a Japanese American and he fought in the [01:04:46.799] 442nd [01:04:48.400] combat regiment team. That was the [01:04:49.839] Japanese American unit that fought in [01:04:51.760] Italy. [01:04:53.440] um and he was in the army and we lived [01:04:57.359] uh my sister and I um lived with them as [01:05:00.720] we were waiting for our mother to come [01:05:02.079] from Japan. [01:05:03.839] And this was like 1958 [01:05:06.640] 59 playing with uh my two cousins and [01:05:10.319] our neighbor children there. And I saw [01:05:13.680] off to the right Woods at this Army [01:05:17.119] base. It’s was called Fort Lee at the [01:05:19.760] time in Petersburg, Virginia. and saw [01:05:22.559] this silvery craft rise up out of the [01:05:25.760] out of the trees. Very quiet. I pointed [01:05:30.160] to it, showed my my cousins and pointed [01:05:34.960] to the neighbor children, “Look at [01:05:36.160] there. Look at there.” You know, I saw [01:05:38.640] it playing and they couldn’t see a [01:05:40.559] thing. They couldn’t see it. They [01:05:42.160] couldn’t see it. It wasn’t a derigible [01:05:43.920] or anything like that because no [01:05:45.920] propulsion. There was no gondola [01:05:47.440] underneath. What was the shape? [01:05:50.480] Like an oval. Yeah. Like an oval. Yeah. [01:05:52.880] Huh. Yeah. And it was just rising slowly [01:05:56.000] and just drift off, but they couldn’t [01:05:58.720] see it. And I saw as plain as can be [01:06:01.920] that it’s an actual object. They [01:06:04.559] couldn’t see it. That was my first craft [01:06:06.880] sighting. The structured craft. How old [01:06:08.880] were you then? I was five. Five years [01:06:12.160] old. [01:06:14.559] Wow. And you remember that? Vividly. [01:06:17.680] Vividly. Vividly remember that. Now the [01:06:20.079] uh [01:06:22.480] the examination that they described the [01:06:25.440] medical examination that occurred when I [01:06:27.119] was around six. Mhm. And the past life [01:06:30.079] experiences were around seven. Okay. [01:06:33.520] And uh after that past life experience [01:06:36.559] at 7, I started getting feelings of like [01:06:40.640] I kind of knew where my my future life [01:06:44.000] would be like. [01:06:45.839] Hm. You know, I I had an interest in in [01:06:48.880] being in the Navy. [01:06:51.599] I’m going to join the Navy, see the [01:06:53.359] world. I want to go join the Navy. And [01:06:55.200] then in junior high school, we had to [01:06:57.440] write an essay on what will you want to [01:06:59.200] be when you grow up kind of thing. And I [01:07:01.359] said, I want to be a spy. And I thought [01:07:03.920] that I was going to be a spy even at [01:07:06.319] that age. And things fell into place in [01:07:08.880] my life where one after the other things [01:07:12.079] started occurring. Not because I planned [01:07:13.920] them, but it was the free will path I [01:07:16.799] took happened to coincide with what I [01:07:20.000] felt. Yeah. I didn’t realize it would [01:07:22.160] lead me there, but everything I did led [01:07:25.440] up to my career at CIA and all the [01:07:29.599] things I experienced professionally and [01:07:31.680] personally while I was at CIA. Do you [01:07:33.359] think that was a path that was laid out [01:07:34.799] for you or is that a path that you laid [01:07:36.799] out for yourself at on some subconscious [01:07:39.440] level? I would say that I laid it out [01:07:42.480] for myself. I feel like I practiced free [01:07:45.760] will. The opportunities were presented [01:07:48.160] to me. I took those opportunities, [01:07:50.880] but and so taking those opportunities, [01:07:53.520] it led me to where I needed to be. Mhm. [01:07:56.000] So, you manifested it, I would say. [01:07:58.160] Yeah. I manifested it, but not [01:07:59.839] consciously. Not to the point that, oh, [01:08:02.079] yeah, I’m going to study these subjects [01:08:04.079] in school and I’m going to do this and [01:08:05.839] I’m going to do that because I want that [01:08:07.520] job. That didn’t happen. just things [01:08:10.079] fell into place [01:08:12.799] where it that occurred. Okay. [01:08:16.560] Yeah. I mean that makes a lot of sense [01:08:18.159] to me. We you know we talked a little [01:08:19.839] bit about this at lunch too where I also [01:08:22.640] I also feel that that there’s like [01:08:24.400] almost like a future memory like it’s so [01:08:27.839] clear it almost seems like a memory but [01:08:30.480] it’s like this vision and it just seems [01:08:32.719] u sort of like frictionf free in in your [01:08:36.640] in your uh way to get there. So yeah, [01:08:38.560] that makes a lot of sense to me. So [01:08:41.359] okay, in junior high and then um any [01:08:45.199] other run-ins [01:08:47.359] subsequent to this? [01:08:50.000] Well, [01:08:53.040] when um [01:08:55.279] I was in the Navy Mhm. Um, I happened to [01:09:00.880] sign up for a particular rate as we call [01:09:04.080] them in the Navy, the particular job and [01:09:06.880] trade for it dealing with electronics, [01:09:08.960] electronic warfare, [01:09:11.199] um, signals analysis basically, but [01:09:14.080] electronic warfare on ships. And that [01:09:17.120] led me to my very first, you know, [01:09:19.120] clearance. had a secret level clearance [01:09:22.960] and I also uh was put on the personal [01:09:26.480] reliability program PRP because uh the [01:09:29.600] ships back then destroyers and frigots [01:09:31.679] carried nuclear weapons on board. I see. [01:09:34.239] And so I was a guard for nuclear [01:09:36.239] weapons. That was one of my collateral [01:09:37.759] duties was to guard nuclear weapons. Um [01:09:41.600] and it was there that you know on my [01:09:44.799] first ship uh a movie came out. It was [01:09:47.279] called Three Days at a Condor, [01:09:49.679] starring Robert Reford and I forget the [01:09:52.080] actress’s name. I know people out there [01:09:54.880] are screaming the name, but I Oh, Fay [01:09:56.640] Dunaway. Oh, okay. Yeah, Robert [01:09:58.960] reference Fay Dunaway. And of course the [01:10:02.480] story was that Robert Reford was a CIA [01:10:04.640] officer working um to uh as a researcher [01:10:08.640] of open source materials trying to [01:10:11.199] discern whether the open source [01:10:12.719] materials may have contained classified [01:10:14.800] information and that little station got [01:10:18.000] wiped out as the story goes and so forth [01:10:20.080] and so on. But um it was during the [01:10:24.320] course of that movie I was with my other [01:10:26.480] uh shipmates watching the movie. There [01:10:28.640] was some very attractive women behind [01:10:30.800] us, maybe a row or two behind, [01:10:33.520] and there was a scene where Robert [01:10:35.679] Riffford picked up the phone [01:10:38.159] and called the operator at Langley and [01:10:42.159] and played back some tones and the [01:10:45.520] Langley operator said, “Okay, that [01:10:47.600] number is da da.” And I thought that was [01:10:49.920] so cool and the women behind us very [01:10:52.400] attractive saying, “That is so cool. [01:10:55.199] That is so awesome.” And I go, “That’s [01:10:56.960] my job. I need a job that women find [01:10:59.840] cool. And so, you know, at that time I [01:11:02.800] wasn’t thinking um, you know, in terms [01:11:04.880] of, you know, joining CIA because that’s [01:11:07.360] what I wanted to do. Sure. But it was [01:11:09.760] just coincided with that. Yeah. That [01:11:12.400] Yeah, that’s what I wanted to do. And I [01:11:13.840] told um my shipmates, you know, I’m [01:11:16.560] going to be in CIA someday. And they [01:11:18.320] laughed at me. Oh, sure you are. No, no, [01:11:21.199] you know, I I see myself walking down [01:11:23.760] the hallways of CIA. Wow. I see it. I [01:11:27.040] visualize it. I can see that happening. [01:11:30.159] And eventually it turned out that way. [01:11:32.080] You know that what I did in the Navy was [01:11:34.159] of interest to CIA to the point that [01:11:37.840] um my senior year in college at George [01:11:40.320] Washington University. I major in [01:11:42.000] political science. Um there was an ad in [01:11:45.120] the Washington Post uh recruiting [01:11:48.159] military sigant personnel. If you did [01:11:51.600] signals intelligence in the military, [01:11:54.239] call us. Write to us. we’re interested [01:11:56.800] in hiring you. And I responded to that [01:11:59.280] ad and that set in motion the process of [01:12:02.960] applying for that particular job in CIA. [01:12:05.840] Wow. [01:12:08.480] Um, so during your time at the CIA, I [01:12:11.600] mean 25 years is a long time, John. [01:12:13.360] That’s a long time. Not really. No, [01:12:16.159] there been other officers who served uh [01:12:18.239] 30 40 years. Okay. But 25 years seems to [01:12:21.120] be the average limit. Uh, if you ask [01:12:23.280] Louando, 25 years. Jim Smivan, 25 years. [01:12:27.040] Ask me, 25 years. That’s about as much [01:12:30.000] as I would say you can stand. [01:12:34.159] Okay. Well put. But that does seem like [01:12:35.920] a long time to be at at at a particular [01:12:39.280] um office that deals with so much [01:12:42.560] sensitive information. You know, it’s [01:12:44.640] like drinking out of a fire hose every [01:12:46.640] day. Like you got all this stuff that [01:12:48.400] you have to compartmentalize. you have [01:12:50.640] to judge whether or not you know there’s [01:12:52.800] there’s so many uh variables and so many [01:12:54.880] things on the line including people’s [01:12:56.960] lives and everything else. So it’s a big [01:12:58.480] responsibility but out of those in that [01:13:01.920] 25 years [01:13:04.320] did you encounter anyone [01:13:07.040] uh within the agency that you knew for [01:13:11.040] sure [01:13:14.080] was read into one of the deeper [01:13:16.400] programs? [01:13:20.320] Yes. Okay. [01:13:22.560] Um did you have a lot of interactions [01:13:25.120] with this person? Yes I did. You did. [01:13:27.600] And [01:13:29.920] was there any was there any point were [01:13:34.159] there groundbreaking [01:13:36.159] was there groundbreaking information [01:13:37.520] given to you by these? No, because I [01:13:39.920] refuse to get that groundbreaking [01:13:41.520] information other than um the [01:13:44.159] gentleman’s name is Pete. His first [01:13:46.159] names is Pete. He was in my parent [01:13:47.920] office. uh he was the subject matter [01:13:50.320] expert uh responsible for gathering [01:13:52.320] other subject management experts within [01:13:54.080] CIA to go to the orb working group. Mhm. [01:13:57.760] And um he wanted to read me in and I [01:14:01.280] said I’m not that interested. Um the [01:14:05.199] other person um well his name is Perry. [01:14:11.199] Hi there Perry. Uh he I can say that he [01:14:14.400] was CIA’s UAP task force liaison [01:14:16.880] officer. I see. He is the David Gres [01:14:19.199] equivalent for CIA. Wow. And I know that [01:14:22.719] uh he’s led uh TVY or temporary duty uh [01:14:26.880] trips to uh to Area 51 from this one [01:14:30.400] particular branch that seems to deal [01:14:32.239] with this um subject matter. Um and I [01:14:37.840] don’t want to call out the branch name [01:14:39.199] because I think it’s still active. Um [01:14:40.800] but it’s in my parent office. It was in [01:14:42.880] my parent office. Um, and so it was him [01:14:46.480] and uh he was heir [01:14:50.080] and then there was under sea. There’s [01:14:51.920] another gentleman, his first name is [01:14:53.840] Ken, that’s initial M. So Perry O and [01:14:58.320] Ken M. Um, he was under sea. And the [01:15:02.400] undersea guy, uh, I was supposed to be [01:15:04.239] read into what I now know as NURO, Nuro, [01:15:08.320] the National Under Sea or Underwater [01:15:11.040] Reconnaissance Office. It’s the undersea [01:15:13.920] equivalent of NRO. And there’s a program [01:15:18.000] I can say out loud because it’s already [01:15:20.239] been revealed and naval special programs [01:15:22.640] NSP. [01:15:24.159] Um, and that originally started uh way [01:15:27.760] back. One of my el chief uh chiefs uh [01:15:31.760] preceding me, his name was Jean Potit, [01:15:34.800] Eugene Potit, a legend at CIA and in the [01:15:38.320] intelligence community. and he started [01:15:41.040] something called palladium, the [01:15:42.800] palladium program as part of that [01:15:44.880] undersea thing. They were they were [01:15:46.239] releasing um objects uh from submarines [01:15:52.400] that would look like craft [01:15:54.960] from the submarine. Whoa. That was the [01:15:56.960] Platium program. It was designed to be a [01:15:58.960] countermeasure against uh radars. I see. [01:16:02.719] To throw them off the scent type deal. [01:16:04.480] Yeah, I think so. Yeah. Yeah. And I [01:16:06.159] think the Platium program is is pretty [01:16:08.000] well documented now. It’s It’s no longer [01:16:10.159] classified, I don’t think. Um I think [01:16:11.760] you can search it and find out more [01:16:14.320] information about it, but um yeah, but [01:16:17.199] he was the uh control officer for that [01:16:21.440] particular Pentagon SAP Mhm. special [01:16:24.000] access program. Now, special access [01:16:26.000] programs, that’s the Department of [01:16:28.080] Defense. If someone tells me I was a CIA [01:16:31.120] officer and I was in charge of a SAP, I [01:16:33.280] know that person is lying because there [01:16:35.440] are no SAPs at CIA. They’re CAPS. the [01:16:38.640] controlled access program. So the ODNI [01:16:40.960] and CIA have CAPS, the Department of [01:16:43.920] Defense have SAPs. And he was the SAP [01:16:47.600] representative for that Pentagon program [01:16:50.239] doing with undersea things. Wow. That [01:16:52.560] guy knows stuff. That guy knows stuff. [01:16:54.560] And um he said the Pentagon he he my [01:16:58.719] name was submitted for that particular [01:17:00.880] compartment. Mhm. And the Pentagon came [01:17:03.440] back and said, “No, we’re not going to [01:17:04.239] read John Ramirez into that. No way.” [01:17:07.120] and he called me up and he said, “I [01:17:09.920] can’t read you in.” The Pentagon said [01:17:11.760] you cannot be read in. You specifically [01:17:14.719] You specifically cannot be read in. Was [01:17:16.719] it because of your previous interest in [01:17:18.800] That’s what I think. Yeah. It seems like [01:17:20.560] that’s I definitely think they looked at [01:17:22.560] my security file. In my security file, [01:17:25.360] uh, every 5 years we get reinvestigated. [01:17:27.520] Uhhuh. And every 5 years we go through [01:17:30.000] the same line of questioning. You got a [01:17:31.520] little notch on it. And Yep. There’s a [01:17:33.760] check mark. um alien drawing beside you. [01:17:36.800] What are your hobbies? You know, what do [01:17:38.400] you like to do? What what what interests [01:17:40.080] you? And I said, I’m interested in UFOs. [01:17:42.640] And one of my things I like to do is is [01:17:45.120] listen to Art Bell and Coast to Coast [01:17:47.280] AM. I love that stuff. You know, that’s [01:17:49.360] what I’m interested in. And um giant red [01:17:52.480] flag. That was in my security profile. [01:17:54.320] That that was my interest. And I [01:17:55.600] reported that several times. Also in my [01:17:57.920] security profile was the fact that I [01:17:59.920] attended UFO conferences. Yes. On my [01:18:02.000] own. Yes. This is because I had a [01:18:04.159] personal interest and I paid my own way. [01:18:06.880] Yes. For flights, hotels, [01:18:08.719] accommodations. The only thing I needed [01:18:10.960] was CIA’s permission. And so, um, in the [01:18:14.159] office of security at CIA, there was [01:18:16.000] something called the external activities [01:18:18.480] branch. External activities branch, [01:18:21.040] anytime you go overseas or take a trip [01:18:23.440] or out of the Washington DC area, you [01:18:26.880] have to report yourself. No matter what. [01:18:29.040] No matter what. You can go on a vacation [01:18:30.880] Hawaii. Yeah. and you’re out of the um [01:18:34.400] Washington DC area, you have to report [01:18:36.640] the fact that you’re going on this [01:18:37.840] vacation. It’s like the CIA’s version of [01:18:40.159] TSA. Yeah, I that’s a good way to put [01:18:43.679] it. Okay. Before there was a TSA, there [01:18:46.080] was CIA external activities. You had to [01:18:48.560] report. And if you don’t report and [01:18:50.800] later it comes up in a reinvestigation [01:18:52.400] that you went on this trip and you [01:18:53.760] didn’t report, you get in a lot of [01:18:54.960] trouble. Okay. What else did you not [01:18:57.840] report? See, that’s the line of [01:18:59.120] questioning. They go when you withhold [01:19:00.880] information Yeah. from CIA during a [01:19:03.040] reinvestigation. Uh they want to know [01:19:05.760] why did you do that? Interesting. What [01:19:07.280] else did you not report? What else are [01:19:08.960] you hiding? Yeah. So, it behooves you to [01:19:11.280] think like uh like you’re in a [01:19:13.440] confessional booth and confess all your [01:19:14.880] sins to mother security or father [01:19:17.440] security. Um you know, hey, forgive me [01:19:20.080] for my sins. Yeah. And they probably [01:19:22.880] have all that now with telephones [01:19:24.800] anyways. Like I mean it’s Yeah. So [01:19:27.040] probably gotten way more sophisticated. [01:19:28.800] Right. Right. So, yeah. So, they knew [01:19:31.120] about that and uh so that I think that’s [01:19:33.040] why I wasn’t uh allowed to be read into [01:19:36.080] that particular compartment, but it has [01:19:38.719] to do with undersea stuff. And I know [01:19:40.880] that um that particular branch that Ken [01:19:44.719] was in uh did some interesting things [01:19:48.159] under the water. You know, underwater [01:19:50.560] comes up more and more. I mean, [01:19:52.159] obviously, there’s a book that I’m just [01:19:54.480] starting to read now by Richard Dolan. [01:19:56.480] uh he put out on the history of USOS and [01:19:59.760] you know formerly I was also looking [01:20:02.640] into this alleged whistleblower that [01:20:05.360] came forward on one of these forums [01:20:07.440] talking about mobile construction units [01:20:09.199] underwater fastm moving large objects [01:20:12.320] and then we hear things you know from [01:20:14.400] Lou like him or not you know he he said [01:20:16.880] this multiple times and that’s been [01:20:18.159] corroborated by other people including a [01:20:20.239] rear admiral Tim Galedet you know who [01:20:22.560] said yeah there are these massive [01:20:24.080] objects down there moving at 4 500 [01:20:26.880] knots, right? Which which is very fast. [01:20:29.520] Yes. And so, uh, when Ken was explaining [01:20:32.960] why the Pentagon didn’t want me to be [01:20:34.800] read, and I was arguing why I should be [01:20:36.719] read, [01:20:38.400] um, he said, “You don’t understand, [01:20:39.840] John. This program is the highest [01:20:44.800] secret, top secret in the entire United [01:20:48.000] States government. This top secret [01:20:50.800] information exceeds that of Manhattan [01:20:53.760] Project.” And he mentioned Manhattan [01:20:55.520] Project by name exceeds the Manhattan [01:20:58.000] Project and the Pentagon doesn’t want [01:20:59.840] you to be read. Whoa. So, okay, that’s [01:21:05.040] and the specific underwater one. Mhm. [01:21:08.800] Okay, that makes a lot of sense. And I [01:21:10.640] knew about the uh we use fast attack [01:21:12.960] submarines for spying. Everyone knows [01:21:15.040] that that submarines are great [01:21:16.480] reconnaissance vehicles, but it has [01:21:18.960] nothing to do with reconnaissance, [01:21:21.120] mundane prosaic reconnaissance of uh an [01:21:24.000] adversary submarine. No, not when you’re [01:21:25.679] talking about something bigger than the [01:21:26.719] Manhattan project. Bigger than the [01:21:27.760] Manhattan project. And that’s the key [01:21:29.679] phrase that I I it was his way of [01:21:32.719] telling me what this program was about [01:21:34.800] without saying what about UFOs. Yeah. [01:21:37.920] Well, it’s something anomalous under the [01:21:39.760] sea. Let’s put it that way. Well, it’s [01:21:40.960] either that or a Kraken, you know. I [01:21:42.960] know that his his um branch uh did [01:21:46.880] operations under the sea, retrieving [01:21:48.960] things. Now, just to be fair, it could [01:21:52.080] be submarines, aircraft. Yeah. It could [01:21:54.639] be adversary undersea satellites, stuff. [01:21:57.360] Yeah. You know, but rockets. Yeah. But [01:21:59.600] there’s something [01:22:01.600] I can’t mention the name, but I know the [01:22:03.760] people who worked there um in that [01:22:06.639] particular program. And if I said the [01:22:08.400] names um you would say, “Huh, I see.” [01:22:11.360] Yeah, I’m not going to say the names, [01:22:12.480] not not on this broadcast. And I I won’t [01:22:14.719] pry it out of you, but one one thing [01:22:16.480] that is interesting that I, you know, [01:22:18.719] often come back to as well as Bob Lazar [01:22:20.960] was, [01:22:22.880] you know, sort of working for what [01:22:25.360] seemed like some type of naval [01:22:27.600] department. Yeah. Or at least the facade [01:22:31.440] was it was the naval, you know, office [01:22:34.320] of naval intelligence or department of [01:22:36.480] department of naval intelligence, which [01:22:38.000] there is an office of naval [01:22:39.440] intelligence. There isn’t a department [01:22:41.360] of naval intelligence, but I will tell [01:22:42.800] you this that when I was at CIA, I had a [01:22:45.600] cover legend that I could use when I go [01:22:48.080] on TDY to conferences or whatever. And [01:22:51.760] uh I was assigned to a Pentagon office [01:22:54.320] that did not exist and I had an ID card [01:22:57.120] with my photo on it and everything looks [01:22:59.600] like a real legitimate Pentagon [01:23:02.320] identification. [01:23:03.920] Um, and there was on the flip side of [01:23:06.960] that, uh, there was a signature of my [01:23:08.800] supervisor, a phone number to call, all [01:23:10.800] this stuff. And if you call that phone [01:23:12.639] number and ask about me, because my true [01:23:14.880] name was on the front of that card with [01:23:16.159] my picture, uh, do you have John Ramirez [01:23:18.880] working for you? And person will verify [01:23:21.520] the fact that I worked for that Pentagon [01:23:23.440] office when you in fact did not. When in [01:23:25.440] fact, I did not. Yeah. So, uh, talking [01:23:27.920] about Bob Lazar, he could be in a [01:23:29.440] similar situation where he was assigned [01:23:31.600] to a non-existent cover office that look [01:23:35.520] legitimate. Sounds the same. Yeah. To to [01:23:38.239] a uh to the untrained eye, to someone [01:23:41.520] who’s not wellversed in the uh [01:23:43.760] Department of Defense. Um, that looks [01:23:46.080] legit. Yeah. You know, and the reason [01:23:47.920] why I use that card is so I can get [01:23:49.520] government rates for hotels and flights. [01:23:51.360] Yeah. You know, that’s how we used it. [01:23:54.000] And it was it was something to flash. [01:23:55.679] It’s the Flash ID to make you look [01:23:57.760] legitimate, right? And in Bob’s in Bob’s [01:24:00.719] case, I mean, obviously, if you’re [01:24:02.000] dealing with something as immense as [01:24:04.000] reverse engineering uh ET craft, no [01:24:07.760] surprise that you would have some type [01:24:09.440] of legend or or cover or or flash ID. I [01:24:13.520] mean, that’s that feels like the minimum [01:24:15.440] amount of security that they would [01:24:17.840] require. Yeah, it’s very light. I mean, [01:24:20.080] if you scratch beneath the surface, [01:24:21.520] it’ll fall apart. But yeah, the the idea [01:24:24.080] was not to gain entry into another [01:24:26.480] government or Pentagon I see uh base cuz [01:24:30.159] I have something called a CAC card, [01:24:32.159] common access card that we were we were [01:24:34.719] given and so I could use that card to [01:24:36.400] get into a DoD facility. Um and people [01:24:39.920] in the DoD know what a CAC card is. I [01:24:42.239] don’t know if they still use them, but I [01:24:43.920] was assigned one. Um and uh so it made [01:24:47.199] me look like a Pentagon employee even [01:24:48.880] though I wasn’t. Yeah. But this was a [01:24:50.719] little bit in-depth. you know, this was [01:24:52.400] a real card that that uh could gain me [01:24:55.440] access into actual facilities, right? I [01:24:57.760] mean, on par for being a spy, I think, [01:25:00.239] you know, um which is I I would expect [01:25:03.840] something like that if I were a spy, be [01:25:05.040] like, where’s my secret ID? Um let’s [01:25:08.800] shift a little bit into into something [01:25:12.000] first. I want to ask just like off the [01:25:13.679] top of my head, just something I’m [01:25:14.960] really interested in. Um, has there ever [01:25:16.960] been any talk stories or anything that [01:25:19.040] you can share on Wright Patterson [01:25:21.840] airfield that that you heard uh in by [01:25:25.600] the water coolers? Not when I was at [01:25:27.600] CIA. I heard more about right pad after [01:25:30.320] left CIA and got involved in this topic [01:25:32.560] at all. Uh, back then right Pat, you [01:25:35.520] know, it was air force base and I dealt [01:25:37.360] with foreign technology division. Um, [01:25:40.000] and then it was called NASC. Mhm. It had [01:25:42.239] a few names in between. Uh, one was NAIK [01:25:45.760] NIC, but that only lasted for shortly. [01:25:48.560] And then they added space to air, [01:25:50.400] national air and space intelligence [01:25:52.239] center. And I dealt with counterparts [01:25:54.320] there. Okay. But never anything not to [01:25:56.639] do with UFOs. Um, no, I it was mostly my [01:26:01.520] day job of uh dealing with um Soviet and [01:26:04.480] Russian missile tests, right? Um, there [01:26:08.400] was a meeting that was had and we’ [01:26:09.920] mentioned this earlier, Brad and [01:26:11.440] McDonald, BDM. Mhm. [01:26:14.080] Something interesting happened there as [01:26:15.199] well, right? That wasn’t a meeting. That [01:26:16.560] was me being briefed into a two [01:26:18.880] compartments. Mhm. Um and so um I was [01:26:22.960] just there, this goes back to my radar, [01:26:27.120] my beloved radar. Now I use the Russian [01:26:30.320] name for it. It’s Neman. Ne-p [01:26:35.360] stands for polygon. Okay. Neman polygon. [01:26:38.400] It’s it’s a very unique radar. It’s very [01:26:40.960] sophisticated. Uh, it’s probably still [01:26:42.800] the most sophisticated waveforms ever [01:26:44.480] seen coming out of a radar. And I’ve [01:26:46.320] seen a lot of different signals coming [01:26:48.239] out of radar. Um, highly capable, [01:26:51.360] extremely advanced radar. Um, and so we [01:26:56.320] were flying something that wasn’t a [01:26:59.520] satellite or wasn’t a conventional [01:27:02.000] satellite. It was a very unique [01:27:05.120] spacecraft. [01:27:07.040] And the spacecraft had uh a like a radar [01:27:11.679] warning receiver in a car that you know [01:27:14.480] if the police are as a police car [01:27:16.800] sitting by the road you know with a [01:27:19.040] radar gun want to see what your speed [01:27:20.960] limit is you can detect it. So this this [01:27:24.719] craft had a similar type of system that [01:27:29.360] if it was illuminated by a radar, it [01:27:33.520] would detect that illumination and [01:27:35.840] actually it would collect some of the [01:27:37.920] parameters of that radar. M so you can [01:27:41.120] further it’s not just a blip, you know, [01:27:43.360] you can further identify it by looking [01:27:45.040] at the parameters and you can match it [01:27:46.719] to known signals. So I was read into [01:27:50.239] this spacecraft and that subsystem that [01:27:53.120] detected the signals as well as um the [01:27:56.480] intelligence collected by that [01:27:57.920] particular spacecraft. It’s uh dealt [01:28:00.560] with intelligence surveillance and [01:28:01.920] reconnaissance [01:28:03.440] but it didn’t look like a satellite. It [01:28:06.320] uh what did it look like? It looked like [01:28:08.080] an egg [01:28:10.320] tapered. Now that’s interesting. Yeah, [01:28:13.440] it it was it was it wasn’t uh a cylinder [01:28:16.320] like a tic tac, but it was teardrop [01:28:20.080] teardrop oval shape with tapered ends. [01:28:24.880] So obviously when we mention egg, [01:28:27.280] there’s a lot of cases in the past and [01:28:29.920] I’ve looked at a lot even in Spain and [01:28:32.080] like all sorts of cases around the world [01:28:33.520] with like eggcraft even going back to [01:28:35.280] Lonnie Zamora um in his you know Sakura [01:28:39.760] New Mexico sighting. But one thing that [01:28:42.000] does come to mind is this Jake Barber [01:28:44.320] video of the alleged recovery. [01:28:48.320] Now what I find interesting here is that [01:28:52.000] BDM Bradock Dunn and McDonald went [01:28:55.280] through several acquisitions. Yeah. And [01:28:57.600] in 2002 they were acquired by Northrup [01:29:01.120] Grummond. [01:29:04.000] Um, there’s a lot of talk that the range [01:29:06.960] that this egg was collected from was on [01:29:11.120] Northrup’s range. Mhm. [01:29:17.760] Do you think that Jake Barber is aware [01:29:21.520] that the craft that he collected was [01:29:23.840] ours? [01:29:25.520] I can’t say it was ours or NHI, right? I [01:29:28.800] just know that the craft I was briefed [01:29:31.679] into could not have landed [01:29:36.400] cuz it was a spacecraft and it orbited. [01:29:39.760] It was an orbital craft that flew into [01:29:42.800] space collecting intelligence and I [01:29:45.760] don’t think it could land. Didn’t have [01:29:47.679] any landing gears or capabilities. I [01:29:49.840] don’t think so. I think it it was if it [01:29:51.920] was de-orbited, it would burn up in the [01:29:53.679] atmosphere like anything else coming [01:29:55.679] back from orbit into the Earth’s [01:29:57.679] atmosphere. It would just burn up. Mhm. [01:29:59.920] So, I don’t think it it was retrieved in [01:30:02.320] that sense. It can’t it could not have [01:30:04.239] been retrieved. Um, and I may be wrong. [01:30:06.960] Mhm. Well, I just find it really [01:30:08.880] interesting that there’s this giant [01:30:10.320] coincidence. Yeah. Yeah. Do you know [01:30:11.920] what I mean? That we’re talking about [01:30:12.880] Eggcraft. We’re also talking about the [01:30:14.320] same location, the same company that [01:30:16.000] deals with this. This all seems a little [01:30:18.000] bit too right, you know, closely. I [01:30:20.320] would say this that if you saw and I saw [01:30:22.719] the photographs of this particular [01:30:24.639] spacecraft in a hanger. Oh. Um that’s I [01:30:28.320] didn’t see the spacecraft itself. They [01:30:30.000] showed me this is what it looked like. [01:30:31.840] This is what it looks like. This is what [01:30:33.199] it can do. This is why we built it and [01:30:36.639] this is why um we’re interested in [01:30:39.360] finding out whether it can be detected [01:30:41.840] because it’s supposed to be uh stealthy [01:30:44.800] in nature. [01:30:46.400] It shouldn’t have been tracked by [01:30:48.239] anything. Yet, it was indicated, but [01:30:50.880] based on the data I saw that it was [01:30:52.639] being tracked by the Russians using this [01:30:54.480] fantastic radar I talked about, Nean P. [01:30:58.320] Um, [01:30:59.840] so I I don’t think it was I don’t think [01:31:03.600] Jake Barber’s video I don’t know what [01:31:05.920] the source of that was. I don’t know if [01:31:08.080] that was the actual craft that he was [01:31:10.639] responsible for retrieving. Um, I don’t [01:31:12.960] know. But I one thing what I was briefed [01:31:15.840] in could not have entered the earth’s [01:31:18.000] atmosphere and land like that intact. It [01:31:22.480] would have it would have burned up. [01:31:24.080] Right. [01:31:25.600] And the craft that you saw that they [01:31:28.000] showed you that was man-made. Oh yeah. [01:31:31.199] Yeah. Oh yeah. It was definitely Well, [01:31:34.000] let’s put it this way. It was built by [01:31:36.159] humans. I have no idea what technology [01:31:39.199] was inside the craft other than I know [01:31:41.520] that there was this radar warning [01:31:43.199] component in it and I know it took [01:31:44.960] pictures and I know that it wasn’t [01:31:47.600] supposed to be detected. Okay. Well, [01:31:50.239] that’s that’s just interesting there. [01:31:52.080] Um, another question that I had I I’m [01:31:54.400] going to run through a few of these [01:31:55.840] questions that I’ve been holding off on [01:31:57.679] here while we’ve been chatting. Um, [01:32:01.920] have you heard of Tim Taylor? Yes, I [01:32:04.159] have. Yeah. Have you ever had a runin [01:32:05.600] with him? Have you ever talked to him? [01:32:06.800] No. Okay. No, I don’t think I have. Um I [01:32:11.199] had a LinkedIn Pro account for a while. [01:32:14.480] Um Temp Taylor, I think he may have [01:32:18.400] reached out to me, but I didn’t really [01:32:20.880] reciprocate. [01:32:22.480] I think he just sent a hello message. [01:32:24.480] Okay. Hi, how you doing kind of thing. [01:32:26.960] This was after I started doing my [01:32:28.560] earlier podcast interviews. Yes. And he [01:32:30.560] come back. So, he was interested in in [01:32:32.480] perhaps talking to you maybe. I don’t [01:32:34.080] know. but we didn’t follow through and [01:32:35.840] so I I can’t say that I know him in any [01:32:38.080] way. Mhm. And where does remote viewing [01:32:41.920] and that stuff fall in? Which category? [01:32:43.679] Mazant. That’s Mazant as well. I would [01:32:45.679] put it in a mazent because there’s a [01:32:47.760] branch of Mazant. Um that is like [01:32:50.400] biological mazent or biometric mazent. [01:32:52.880] Biometric mazent. Okay. And a human [01:32:54.719] brain mazent is a real thing. It’s [01:32:57.280] signatures coming from the human brain. [01:33:00.000] Whoa. And so that they can measure that. [01:33:03.199] Yeah, you can. I mean, Stanford [01:33:05.440] University has Yeah. But I mean, do do [01:33:09.199] you think they still do it? I would [01:33:11.120] think so. Yeah. So, I I think there it’s [01:33:14.080] still a field of study. Um [01:33:17.520] because humans had uh magnetic sense at [01:33:20.639] one time just like whales and uh [01:33:23.600] cessations, you know, they they could [01:33:25.120] sense magnetic field changes in the [01:33:27.840] earth and they use the these creatures [01:33:29.840] use it to navigate. Mhm. And every time [01:33:32.080] there’s some disruption, solar flares or [01:33:34.159] whatever that causes a disruption, they [01:33:36.800] get lost and they beach themselves, [01:33:39.199] right? Because they get lost. And the [01:33:40.800] humans, they detected that we have a a [01:33:43.600] dormant capability of doing that. [01:33:45.840] Whether it’s dormant or it was made [01:33:47.760] dormant deliberately, I don’t know. [01:33:49.679] That’s a whole another area of [01:33:51.199] discussion. But humans had that [01:33:55.120] or still do a dormant sense of Earth’s [01:33:58.800] magnetic field. Also your human skin is [01:34:02.480] a mazing collector in that the uh the [01:34:05.679] sweat glands are helical antennas. So [01:34:09.760] underneath your skin there are little [01:34:11.920] helical antennas [01:34:14.239] and they act like electromagnetic [01:34:16.159] antennas and they could measure the [01:34:18.480] wavelength that your skin is is um [01:34:22.480] is able to detect. It’s it’s up in the [01:34:25.440] like 400 500 gigahertz range up there. [01:34:28.880] millimeter wave they call it. But you [01:34:31.600] know, you think about how to affect a [01:34:34.320] human being, zap them with that range of [01:34:37.520] signals and they start sweating start [01:34:39.840] doing all kinds of things or you can use [01:34:41.440] acoustic right uh signatures you [01:34:44.639] acoustic signals and you can you can [01:34:46.719] make somebody sick. Mhm. Or um in a risk [01:34:50.560] extreme [01:34:52.159] you you can make them um you can make [01:34:54.080] them vomit. Oh my gosh. Because you know [01:34:56.159] your your abdominal cavity there’s a [01:34:59.280] resonance there in the audio range and [01:35:02.000] if you hit it with that audio range you [01:35:03.760] know all of a sudden things in there [01:35:05.040] starts to quiver and you get physically [01:35:07.280] sick. Well if uh if the people watching [01:35:09.920] this video don’t leave a like and a [01:35:11.840] comment I’m going to play one of those [01:35:13.120] sounds. So yeah and that goes back to [01:35:16.239] AHI the uh you know the anomalous health [01:35:18.560] incidents. Yeah. Yeah. Uh with syndrome. [01:35:21.679] Yeah. They’re probably utilizing that [01:35:23.840] type of human mazet. Yeah. As a a [01:35:27.280] weaponized version of it. The offensive [01:35:29.600] side of it. Not just collecting it, [01:35:31.600] which is more defensive and passive, but [01:35:34.000] using it to affect another human being. [01:35:35.920] Yeah. And it would be an incredible [01:35:37.920] shame to do all those studies, you know, [01:35:41.840] whether it’s MK Ultra and Stargate and [01:35:43.840] all these things after decades and [01:35:46.800] decades and finding that, oh, there is [01:35:48.719] something here, there is something and [01:35:50.880] then just dropping it. Like it seems so [01:35:54.480] ridiculous. Like especially because all [01:35:57.120] of that stuff to me seems incredibly [01:35:59.600] cheap. It’s not something that’s very [01:36:02.159] expensive. You know, you give a guy a [01:36:03.920] piece of paper and a pencil or a woman [01:36:05.840] and sit him in a room with no windows. I [01:36:08.000] mean, that doesn’t cost millions of [01:36:09.760] dollars. [01:36:11.520] What is one piece of information that [01:36:12.960] you think everyone should know? This is [01:36:16.480] where we’re going to talk about [01:36:17.520] consciousness. Consciousness seems to be [01:36:22.719] the foundation for the phenomenon. That [01:36:25.679] is how humans perceive the phenomenon [01:36:29.120] and how the phenomenon perceives humans. [01:36:31.199] There seems to be a a consciousness [01:36:33.600] aspect to this aside from the nuts and [01:36:37.600] bolts. Even though JAPS may not have any [01:36:41.120] nuts or bolts on the craft, but we call [01:36:43.440] it that. But the structured craft, aside [01:36:45.360] from the structured craft, um that’s [01:36:47.760] just physics. That’s just mechanical [01:36:49.679] engineering. That’s just material [01:36:51.280] science [01:36:53.199] that can be all figured out. But how it [01:36:55.600] works, there seems to be a consciousness [01:36:58.000] aspect to it that we don’t quite [01:36:59.920] understand. [01:37:02.239] And I’ve been hearing that more and more [01:37:04.159] particularly the way the phenomenon [01:37:06.880] communicates with certain individuals [01:37:09.360] and the way individuals can communicate [01:37:11.920] with the phenomenon. So you have the [01:37:14.560] human initiated contact you know the [01:37:16.800] heist you can have that or um using [01:37:20.639] psionics as Jake Barber’s team is doing [01:37:23.920] to lure the craft down. That’s a real [01:37:26.080] thing because the Russians have already [01:37:27.600] done it. [01:37:29.119] Do you think that that’s [01:37:31.440] because that to me sounds so insane? [01:37:34.960] Because I I I just struggle with that [01:37:37.199] concept [01:37:38.960] because if you were an intelligent [01:37:41.520] species, arguably [01:37:44.560] vastly more intelligent than the people [01:37:46.719] who are quote unquote summoning you or [01:37:49.520] inviting you. Um, fool me once, shame on [01:37:54.320] you. But fool me twice, shame on me. [01:37:56.239] Like I [01:37:58.000] these aren’t fish. These are intelligent [01:38:00.880] things. Surely they know that if they [01:38:03.920] get in range, they’re going to be taken [01:38:05.119] down by some microwave cannon. Like I [01:38:07.040] mean I’ I’ I’d be hardressed to think [01:38:09.360] that these intelligent beings would be [01:38:11.040] willing to put themselves in a situation [01:38:13.280] a second time to be drawn in. And to me [01:38:17.679] this, you know, only my opinion, but [01:38:22.000] seems like we might be interacting with [01:38:24.080] some type of system rather because if [01:38:29.360] you simulate war games and these things [01:38:31.280] start appearing, that doesn’t seem like [01:38:32.719] an intelligently controlled thing that [01:38:35.679] we’re It seems like a system. It seems [01:38:37.920] like some type of immune response to our [01:38:42.400] games that we’re that we’re putting out [01:38:44.239] there, you know. Um because again, I [01:38:47.440] don’t think so that that that’s where I [01:38:49.360] struggle with all of that. But you said [01:38:51.280] that the Russians are doing this. The [01:38:52.960] Russians have done it. Yeah. They [01:38:54.320] they’ve they’ve done what Jake Barber is [01:38:56.719] doing now. They’ve already done it. And [01:38:59.440] where where does that information come [01:39:00.800] from? Uh it comes from a major general [01:39:03.199] in the Russian Air Force, retired. He [01:39:05.280] said that uh they were able to lure UAP [01:39:08.400] down H and then when it came down they [01:39:11.679] were able to interact with the UAP just [01:39:14.239] by body movements and thought. Okay. And [01:39:18.239] lure them in how? Using psionics or [01:39:21.040] using nukes? No, not nukes. No, it was [01:39:24.000] it was like they were using uh [01:39:26.159] electromagnetic signals. Uhhuh. Um and [01:39:29.520] frequencies and Yeah, certain [01:39:31.119] frequencies. Um, I would say that 3 [01:39:33.600] ghahertz is uh magic frequency for some [01:39:38.320] reason. Um, they respond to 3 GHz. The [01:39:41.040] radar I talked to you about before, [01:39:42.880] Neiman P, that is an S-band radar. Um, [01:39:46.159] it works just below 3 GHz. It’s a very [01:39:49.040] wideband signal. Um, below three 3 [01:39:52.080] gigahertz. Um, it seems to me that Oh, [01:39:55.520] and the [01:39:57.440] the craft followed by the RB47 [01:40:01.600] that the late Dr. James McDonald wrote [01:40:03.760] about um the RB47 being a uh [01:40:08.080] reconnaissance aircraft. They detected [01:40:10.560] with their onboard signals collection [01:40:13.440] systems a 3 gigahertz signal coming from [01:40:15.840] that. Oh. that they followed. Um the [01:40:20.480] there were two radars at White Sands uh [01:40:23.199] testing the V2 and those radars, the STR [01:40:27.360] 587 they were called. It’s a 3 GHz [01:40:30.880] signal. Hm. Interesting. Um so 3 GHz for [01:40:35.040] some reason seems to be um the magic [01:40:37.920] wavelength uh frequency rather. Yeah. Or [01:40:40.159] dog whistle. Yeah, maybe. I don’t know. [01:40:42.880] Um but according to this major general [01:40:46.320] Alexev um they were able to lure down [01:40:48.800] that this these craft and interact with [01:40:52.000] them. [01:40:53.600] Interesting. [01:40:56.960] I mean I’d like to see it happen and and [01:41:00.159] I I wish them the best. I hope I hope [01:41:01.760] that this is uh you know something that [01:41:03.760] can be made public and and can be shared [01:41:05.679] with everybody. Yeah. And I have [01:41:08.000] classified sources um documenting [01:41:12.239] interactions, that type of interaction, [01:41:14.159] but I can’t talk about it because it’s [01:41:16.800] classified. Well, um it is classified. [01:41:19.840] Um and I kind of alluded to it in [01:41:21.920] previous interviews. I laid it all out [01:41:23.920] for the Age of Disclosure film that, um [01:41:27.360] I did not appear in, but I participated [01:41:30.000] in the making of that film. uh they they [01:41:32.719] ran up against a time constraint and so [01:41:34.960] they had to cut four hours down to [01:41:37.360] something that would fit Yeah. at the [01:41:39.199] Southwest [01:41:40.880] conference. Yeah. And so, uh, I was able [01:41:43.600] to collaborate [01:41:46.159] corroborate that what they did and [01:41:48.639] explained it a little further, but I’m [01:41:50.239] hesitant to do it now because that film [01:41:52.639] provided us with a cover, top cover that [01:41:56.400] if I say that when there’s uh, the now [01:42:00.239] Secretary of State on there and and [01:42:02.719] senators and Congress people and these [01:42:04.960] other high level officials like Jim [01:42:07.199] Clapper all saying things like that. [01:42:09.440] Yeah. Um, I felt more comfortable saying [01:42:11.440] that. Are you referring to the incident [01:42:13.679] with the red cube? I don’t know about [01:42:16.239] the red cube. No. No. The giant cube. [01:42:20.000] Okay. Don’t know about that. I saw that [01:42:21.679] movie, the Age of Disclosure, and that [01:42:25.040] was mentioned in there. Yeah. I didn’t [01:42:26.560] know anything about I hadn’t seen the [01:42:27.920] film. Okay. I just know what I said. [01:42:29.760] Yeah. The two hours two plus hours that [01:42:32.560] I I talked about. My goodness. [01:42:35.600] Yeah. Those would be good podcasts to [01:42:37.119] release as well, I’m sure, in in their [01:42:38.800] entirety. Yeah. [01:42:41.440] All right. Uh John, we’re gonna hop to [01:42:43.199] some audience questions. Thanks so much [01:42:44.880] for indulging all of my questions, but [01:42:46.480] we’re going to get to uh some [01:42:47.760] interesting audience questions. Do you [01:42:49.199] want to give me a second? I’m going to [01:42:50.159] turn on that camera back here. [01:42:53.920] So, for the people that don’t know, uh [01:42:55.760] if you become a member here on this [01:42:57.360] channel, we refer to you as interns or [01:43:00.400] operatives depending on um you know, [01:43:02.800] what level you opt in on. But you do as [01:43:06.239] an operative have the opportunity to ask [01:43:08.239] the guest a question. These are [01:43:09.600] prevetted and I’ve selected them. Uh [01:43:12.080] give I give everyone 24 hours heads up [01:43:16.159] and uh right behind me these will be the [01:43:18.960] questions. So [01:43:22.800] oh this is good. Actually we were going [01:43:24.080] to touch on this and we we forgot to. So [01:43:26.320] perfect. [01:43:34.800] question is, what convinced you the 2027 [01:43:37.920] revelation had to be made public despite [01:43:41.280] your background in secrecy from Hubby? [01:43:44.320] Well, first of all, um, I didn’t bring [01:43:47.280] that up in the environment I talked [01:43:49.600] about. It was a skiff. Mhm. There were [01:43:51.600] government officials there that brought [01:43:52.960] it up and I didn’t give it much thought [01:43:56.400] because 2027 was mostly talked about in [01:43:59.119] the uh channeling community and I don’t [01:44:02.719] really follow the channel community in [01:44:05.040] any kind of depth. Yeah. Like Bashar [01:44:07.119] recently talks about it a lot right and [01:44:09.119] I’m surprised that they are talking [01:44:10.639] about it but um that question did come [01:44:13.760] up that discussion came up and I telling [01:44:16.560] you what I told them is I have no idea. [01:44:19.440] Mhm. I don’t know. Um, you should ask [01:44:22.560] the channelers about it. Ask Chris Bleo, [01:44:25.840] ask Anelie Schultz. Um, any channeler, [01:44:29.119] you know, just talk to them. They seem [01:44:31.360] to know something. I don’t, but they [01:44:33.679] press me for my opinion. Mhm. And it’s [01:44:37.199] just an opinion, right, of something [01:44:38.880] that is out in social media. Sure. All [01:44:41.760] right. So, it’s not secret in any sense. [01:44:45.600] Yeah. it’s just a topic that’s coming up [01:44:48.080] in the public domain. So, I gave them my [01:44:50.880] opinion and I said, “Well, I don’t know, [01:44:53.679] but [01:44:55.199] what is your hope? What What do you hope [01:44:57.360] for in 27?” You know, that kind of [01:44:59.760] phrasing. So, well, my personal hope is [01:45:03.280] that [01:45:04.960] maybe they’ll show up. I don’t know. [01:45:06.639] Maybe maybe the NHI will show up in [01:45:08.480] 2027. [01:45:10.400] That’s my hope. Let’s just call it a [01:45:13.280] year they show up. the arrival year, [01:45:16.639] let’s say, and let’s say they do arrive. [01:45:19.760] Well, wouldn’t it behoove you guys in [01:45:22.000] government to start disclosing what you [01:45:24.080] guys know about the phenomenon now? And [01:45:28.000] this is in 2022, [01:45:30.000] five years from now, if they do show up, [01:45:32.880] then people won’t won’t be like [01:45:36.880] fearful or surprised or you know, yeah, [01:45:40.239] you won’t have this catastrophic [01:45:43.360] revelation coming forward. Prepare now [01:45:46.320] the people share all the information you [01:45:48.639] can so that if they the NHI show up Mhm. [01:45:53.760] then we are prepared for it because I [01:45:56.159] told them you guys don’t control [01:45:58.480] disclosure. They do. They can show up [01:46:01.760] tomorrow. [01:46:04.719] Very true. That’s a very good point. [01:46:07.920] What are you going to say then? Oh, [01:46:10.320] shoot. Yeah, we knew about this for like [01:46:12.239] since, you know, after World War II. [01:46:14.560] We’re sorry we didn’t tell you about it. [01:46:16.320] We lied to you about it. That’s not a [01:46:18.320] good optic there. Reveal what you know [01:46:21.119] now. Yeah. So, it’s not a secret. [01:46:25.440] There’s no secret about 2027. So, the [01:46:28.320] environment was actually a skiff, but a [01:46:31.440] skiff is you don’t have to have a top [01:46:33.280] secret clearance to walk into a skiff. [01:46:35.199] You can walk into a skiff, but you can [01:46:37.520] only talk about unclassified things in a [01:46:39.600] skiff, right? It’s up to top secret. And [01:46:43.679] anything below that and below that is [01:46:45.600] unclassified. And this is nothing of of [01:46:48.000] any kind of classification, hearsay. At [01:46:50.639] this point, I I would say hearsay is a a [01:46:53.760] good way to phrase it. Yeah. But I don’t [01:46:55.600] I don’t know what’s going to happen in [01:46:56.719] 2027. The only thing I’m concerned about [01:46:58.719] in 2027 is I’m a big NFL fan. I love [01:47:03.199] American football, right? And I know in [01:47:05.440] 2027 that my favorite team, the [01:47:07.440] Washington Commanders, will be the host [01:47:09.360] team for the NHL uh NFL draft in [01:47:13.520] Washington DC in 2027. I plan to be [01:47:15.679] there. So that’s a big deal. That’s a [01:47:17.280] big deal to So, so that’s what’s [01:47:18.719] happening in 2027. You heard it here [01:47:20.719] first. Washington Commanders is the host [01:47:22.880] team for the NFL draft in Washington DC [01:47:25.119] in 2027. Yeah. And I hope to be there. I [01:47:27.920] can tell you for sure we will not be [01:47:29.600] asking you about 2027 in 2028. [01:47:34.239] So that that that you can you can take [01:47:36.960] to the bank. Um here’s another one here. [01:47:50.800] Don’t see who this is from here, but [01:47:53.520] this is uh many experiences believe [01:47:55.360] entities are angelic or demonic. Are [01:47:57.520] both true or is one group being lied to [01:47:59.600] in your opinion? I don’t label them as [01:48:01.520] angelic or demonic, so I don’t know how [01:48:03.440] to answer this. Um, yeah, for me, [01:48:05.840] they’re just entities that showed up and [01:48:09.600] interacted with me. I personally had [01:48:12.239] only one I would call bad but not [01:48:15.040] demonic experience and that experience [01:48:17.920] was with a reptilian like being that [01:48:21.119] showed up in in my condo when I lived in [01:48:24.639] Washington DC. Can you talk us through [01:48:26.880] that? Sure. I was really pissed off um [01:48:29.440] because it woke me up and it came toward [01:48:32.560] me and I got up out of bed and started [01:48:35.440] punching it with this right fist as hard [01:48:39.119] as I can. [01:48:40.960] uh cursing at it or whatever just [01:48:42.800] because it was bothering me. I wanted to [01:48:44.400] go to sleep and it grabbed my arm and [01:48:47.360] then I have no memory after that. But I [01:48:49.600] woke up in the morning with claw marks [01:48:52.960] on my right forearm. Now a [01:48:57.040] debunker would say, “Oh, you just had a [01:48:59.360] nightmare and you scratched yourself.” [01:49:01.920] I don’t think so because after that uh [01:49:05.040] incident happened uh on further nights [01:49:08.400] and this happens like I would be woken [01:49:10.320] up around between 3 and 4 let’s say 3:30 [01:49:14.159] and I would look over on one side of the [01:49:16.400] bedroom there and there would be a cloud [01:49:18.960] a green cloud with little white sparkles [01:49:22.960] in that cloud and I got a sense of [01:49:26.239] protection from it you know that oh you [01:49:29.199] know we’re here to protect you go back [01:49:32.080] to sleep, you’re fine. We’re here for [01:49:34.560] protection. And so that was my [01:49:36.880] experience then. And you know, that [01:49:38.480] didn’t last. Um eventually that cloud [01:49:41.600] didn’t show up and I never encountered [01:49:43.440] that being again. But that’s that’s the [01:49:46.159] only like somewhat What What was this [01:49:48.800] being wearing? Was it wearing anything? [01:49:51.360] I don’t No, I I it may have been a [01:49:54.320] uniform or something, but I just knew [01:49:56.480] that its face was very much what we [01:49:58.320] would call reptilian. reptilian. Wow. [01:50:01.040] Yeah. It’s not like a lizard. It didn’t [01:50:02.960] have a snout like a lizard or anything [01:50:04.719] like that, but it looked like someone [01:50:08.080] who had reptilian [01:50:10.960] DNA or reptilian heritage and their [01:50:13.840] bloodline. It was upright, you know, [01:50:16.560] walking bipedal. Didn’t talk to you at [01:50:19.840] all. No, not telepathically. Nothing. [01:50:23.280] No. No. But I definitely was young and [01:50:25.360] screaming. I did it. What was it doing [01:50:26.400] to try and wake you up? I don’t know. [01:50:28.400] Mhm. I don’t know. It was just there [01:50:30.239] invading your space. Invading my space. [01:50:32.000] And that that really made me mad for [01:50:34.080] some reason. I just felt anger at it, [01:50:36.639] but no fear. Well, other other uh [01:50:40.239] entities have come up were more benign. [01:50:43.119] I mean, they were just checking up on [01:50:44.719] me. You’ve had interactions with [01:50:46.960] separate entities as well. Just two [01:50:48.960] types that one reptilian Yeah. entity [01:50:52.480] I would say reptilian like. Yeah. Uh and [01:50:54.960] the other I can’t identify because it [01:50:57.199] was shrouded. It was wearing a cloak. A [01:50:59.360] hood. A hood. Yeah. A cloak and a hood. [01:51:02.400] How tall? Um I was lying down, but it [01:51:05.440] was like I would say like five feet. [01:51:08.320] Okay. You know, not they’re not small [01:51:11.119] and they’re not super tall. They’re not [01:51:13.119] Nordic. Yeah. But um it was a shrouded [01:51:17.360] wearing wearing a a cloak, a hood, and [01:51:19.840] kind of shrouded. I couldn’t see its [01:51:21.360] face. Um, I looked at it as carefully as [01:51:25.520] I could and I seemed to show some [01:51:29.280] features, but they they were more it it [01:51:32.639] seemed like it had like facial features [01:51:36.000] like a humanoid, but not humanoid. [01:51:39.520] Not like what people describe as Nordic, [01:51:41.360] which is very humanlike. It wasn’t like [01:51:43.440] that. So human humanlike, but not quite. [01:51:46.800] Yeah. Huh. Yeah. Yeah. And and these are [01:51:49.760] the beings that I encountered more [01:51:51.040] often. You’ve this has happened more [01:51:53.119] than once. Oh yes. These are my beings [01:51:55.679] that visit me. Really? Um and the most [01:51:59.199] current um time I’ve was visited was in [01:52:02.320] in the Tucson area where I live. I just [01:52:04.560] moved uh away from Charlotte, North [01:52:06.239] Carolina. Moved into the Tucson area and [01:52:09.599] they showed up one night and they just I [01:52:12.000] woke up and they go, “Oh, don’t don’t [01:52:13.920] mind us. We just want to let you know [01:52:15.360] that we know you moved.” And so yeah. [01:52:19.280] Whoa. Creepy. You’re you’re fine. We [01:52:22.639] know you moved. We just want to let you [01:52:24.159] know we know you moved. What are some [01:52:25.920] other interactions that you’ve had with [01:52:27.119] them? Have they talked to you? Have they [01:52:28.400] given you information? Have they not [01:52:29.840] really? No. They just show up. They just [01:52:31.520] show up and they just It seemed like I [01:52:33.360] was examined or somehow, you know, they [01:52:35.840] I get the feeling we’re just checking up [01:52:37.520] on you. Go back to sleep. You’re fine. [01:52:39.920] We’re just checking to see you’re fine. [01:52:41.840] You know, that kind of thing. It was [01:52:43.760] almost like monitoring me to see how it [01:52:46.880] was. Do you feel that you were [01:52:49.599] potentially part of some hybridization [01:52:51.599] program? Don’t know. Is that the feeling [01:52:54.080] you get? All I know is that I used to [01:52:58.320] have nose bleeds a lot. Right nostril [01:53:01.119] nose bleeds. Been having them since [01:53:03.440] childhood. [01:53:05.360] Um, [01:53:08.239] and I just thought that, you know, I was [01:53:10.719] just susceptible to nose bleeds. Maybe [01:53:12.239] the air is dry or whatever. I never [01:53:14.639] associated it with any kind of NHI kind [01:53:16.719] of calls, but I had that at work [01:53:20.880] at CIA and I was reaching uh my nose [01:53:24.239] started bleeding at work and I had some [01:53:26.239] a box of tissues on the top shelf in my [01:53:29.199] cubicle. I was reaching for that chairs [01:53:32.400] had wheels, office chairs, rolled back [01:53:35.760] and I landed flat on my back [01:53:39.040] and my co-workers were shocked and I oh [01:53:41.520] my gosh, what happened to John? you [01:53:42.639] know, they called medical um and the uh [01:53:46.719] protective officers showed up, uniform [01:53:48.400] protective officers. Um we call them spo [01:53:52.800] security protection officers and [01:53:54.639] uniform. Um they showed up to escort a [01:53:57.920] um medical people. I think it was a [01:53:59.920] nurse or something. They put me on a [01:54:01.440] gurnie and off I go to office of medical [01:54:03.840] services on the first floor and um I was [01:54:07.360] examined by a doctor. Um, first they [01:54:11.040] took an X-ray. [01:54:13.280] I took an X-ray and they got the results [01:54:17.360] of the X-ray and they go, “Have you ever [01:54:19.440] had a bad accident?” [01:54:23.040] Said, “No.” So they, “Looks like you had [01:54:26.480] an accident. Did you ever have surgery?” [01:54:29.119] “No.” [01:54:30.639] And then said, “Well, let’s look at your [01:54:32.080] nose.” And so I lay back down and they [01:54:34.480] looked at my nose, you know, and they [01:54:37.520] go, “Have you ever had surgery in your [01:54:40.400] nostril?” “No.” And I said, “Why? Why do [01:54:43.520] you say that?” Cuz there’s a surgical [01:54:45.679] cut deep in your nostril. It is a [01:54:49.360] surgical cut [01:54:52.239] as if I was operated on. Wow. And oh, [01:54:55.119] there’s some debris there. Can we remove [01:54:57.840] that debris? And sure, whatever. do [01:55:00.960] whatever you want and and so let me call [01:55:03.679] my colleagues. So there were two doctors [01:55:05.440] now and the other doctor the second [01:55:07.199] doctor looked in my nose. Oh yeah. And [01:55:10.639] then they go off and had a sidebar [01:55:12.719] leaving me out of the conversation at [01:55:14.320] the CIA. Yeah. Office of Medical [01:55:16.400] Services. They were talking sidebar. [01:55:19.440] They came back and said, “Yeah, we we [01:55:21.199] want can we extract that this debris?” [01:55:23.920] Sure. Go ahead. Okay. and we’ll extract [01:55:27.119] it and then we’ll we’ll we’ll cauterize, [01:55:29.520] you know, we’ll they did something to a [01:55:31.920] nose to close that surgical wound or [01:55:34.320] whatever to stop it from bleeding. I [01:55:37.199] don’t know what happened to it um at [01:55:39.280] all. Um and off they go. They had a [01:55:42.400] sample of whatever they collected. They [01:55:44.880] closed the wound. Didn’t have any nose [01:55:47.119] bleeds after that. That’s the good news. [01:55:49.199] So, here I am retired. We’re going to [01:55:51.199] retire. It’s in the month of September [01:55:53.760] of 20, 2009 [01:55:56.560] and I had uh plans to retire on [01:55:58.480] September the 30th. That was going to be [01:55:59.840] my last day. So I was going out check [01:56:02.639] checkout list, right? You got to go here [01:56:04.560] check out they even go to the library to [01:56:07.360] make sure you don’t owe library fines [01:56:10.560] cuz they find you. If you check out a [01:56:12.080] book from the CIA library and you don’t [01:56:13.520] return on time, they find you. Okay. So [01:56:15.679] yeah, you’re clear for that. D and so [01:56:17.679] security go there. Oh my gosh, you have [01:56:20.080] what? Over two dozen compartments. Yeah. [01:56:23.280] Yeah, I was in the DS&T. What can I say? [01:56:26.159] People in the DS&T seem to gather a lot [01:56:28.480] of compartments. Um so forth and so on. [01:56:30.639] And then I went to medical services and [01:56:32.320] they were going to uh check off on that [01:56:34.719] that I reported to medical services. [01:56:36.800] Then I go, “Oh, by the way, can I get I [01:56:39.920] had something done here um way back when [01:56:43.679] um and by then it was um oh like 10 [01:56:46.560] years has have passed and can I get [01:56:50.239] those records?” I said, “Sorry, um your [01:56:53.679] medical records are classified. You [01:56:56.480] cannot have them.” [01:56:58.800] Okay. Wait, they classified your own [01:57:01.679] medical records? They told me, “Yeah, [01:57:03.440] you do not have access to your medical [01:57:05.119] records. You do not. That That doesn’t [01:57:06.960] make sense. It doesn’t make sense. Um, [01:57:10.480] so I couldn’t get my medical records cuz [01:57:11.920] I want to see what they found or if [01:57:13.760] there anything in there. They extracted [01:57:15.199] something. Now, I understand they don’t [01:57:17.199] give you your security file at all that [01:57:19.920] they keep because um when you go through [01:57:23.920] CIA reinvestigations, they talk to your [01:57:26.480] friends and colleagues and neighbors and [01:57:28.159] they do the whole nine yards thing. [01:57:29.760] Yeah. And it could be detrimental [01:57:31.280] information from a colleague. Sure. [01:57:33.440] saying, “Yeah, do you know, you know, [01:57:36.000] John likes to drink too much and I was [01:57:38.080] at a party and he was drunk.” You know, [01:57:39.840] there could be stuff like that in there. [01:57:41.280] Mhm. Not that I drank too much or any [01:57:44.000] less. Yeah. But, you know, there’s [01:57:45.760] detrimental information from your your [01:57:48.400] colleagues, could be friends or [01:57:49.679] whatever, girlfriends. [01:57:52.000] Yeah. So, all that’s in there. So, they [01:57:53.760] keep that and that’s that’s there I [01:57:56.480] think for 75 years. I understand. Okay. [01:57:59.360] Yeah. So, you know, 75 years from 2009, [01:58:02.239] you can look at my security file maybe [01:58:03.679] if you foil it. Um, but my medical [01:58:06.480] records someone given me. That’s one. [01:58:08.320] So, years later, let me advance this [01:58:10.080] story. [01:58:11.840] Um, Jim Seivan, I knew that he had an [01:58:15.599] implant. He told me private conversation [01:58:17.920] before I came out in public. This is [01:58:20.480] before I came out in public. I knew he [01:58:23.520] was an experiencer. I knew he had that [01:58:25.199] encounter which he now freely talks [01:58:26.880] about. So I knew that background of his [01:58:28.960] implants and I told him my experience [01:58:32.159] and so he connected me to a a former CIA [01:58:36.000] doctor who told me that if you ever [01:58:38.080] mention my name I will deny that I know [01:58:40.080] you. Okay. What’s his name? I’m not [01:58:42.239] going to mention his name. He’ll deny [01:58:43.760] that I know him. So I promise I won’t [01:58:46.080] mention your name. Okay. You get one [01:58:49.040] guess. Um but you know he’s let’s talk [01:58:54.000] I’ll get you in touch with him. So, this [01:58:56.159] doctor, a for former CIA doctor, [01:58:58.159] interviewed me over the phone. I didn’t [01:59:00.400] see him or anything. Um, but he [01:59:01.840] interviewed me and we went through my [01:59:04.239] life history and so forth. And he found [01:59:06.000] it interesting that I had Cherokee [01:59:08.560] heritage, my great-grandmother on my [01:59:11.040] father’s side, who’s Cherokee, Cherokee [01:59:13.520] woman. And he said, “Well, my gosh, I [01:59:16.159] got to put you in a special file here.” [01:59:17.840] He said, “Why is that?” He says, “Well, [01:59:19.199] there’s a almost a one toone correlation [01:59:22.000] between experiencers and two heritages. [01:59:24.639] One is Cherokee Indian. [01:59:27.679] The other is Celtic [01:59:30.159] and for some reason like experiencers in [01:59:34.880] who were special operators for the [01:59:36.800] military or intelligence officers, they [01:59:40.000] either have Celtic heritage or Cherokee [01:59:42.080] Indian heritage and they have [01:59:43.360] experiences with the phenomena. Well, [01:59:45.360] that’s interesting. Right. So, I told [01:59:47.920] him about my my [01:59:50.719] um [01:59:52.320] what they did and he said, “Well, here’s [01:59:54.639] what you do. [01:59:56.639] You can use my full name. You can here’s [01:59:59.199] my social security number and here is um [02:00:03.760] just tell them that you know me and that [02:00:07.199] uh I’m still have a contract or some [02:00:09.920] kind of way to go back to the [02:00:12.800] intelligence community.” Sure. let them [02:00:14.639] know and ask them [02:00:18.000] do a a HIPPO waiver that is you know [02:00:20.960] that you can release the files your [02:00:22.480] medical files to a third party usually [02:00:24.560] another medical professional have say [02:00:27.920] you wave your HIPPA and release your [02:00:29.520] files to me but I won’t be able to tell [02:00:32.320] you what’s in them but at least I have [02:00:34.880] it so okay so that was the end of that [02:00:38.000] story so he has them I imagine so [02:00:40.480] because I did request John that’s so [02:00:42.880] messed Uh, yeah. I I I don’t know. This [02:00:45.520] your medical file. Yeah, but it’s it’s I [02:00:49.840] can’t get my medical files. That makes [02:00:52.000] no sense to me. I asked Jim Seivan said, [02:00:54.400] “Were you able to get your medical [02:00:55.599] files?” No. [02:00:58.320] Good luck. No. So, both of you had [02:01:02.320] implants taken essentially. Yeah. Well, [02:01:06.000] Jim is public about his he knew that um [02:01:08.960] I think it was done by a third party [02:01:10.880] that’s not associated with CIA, right? [02:01:13.599] There’s another doctor. You get one [02:01:16.159] guess for that doctor’s name who works [02:01:18.719] with the CIA doctor. Okay. Just gave [02:01:20.480] away who they are, but you do your own [02:01:22.159] research. I’m not going to mention their [02:01:23.520] names. They asked me not to, but you [02:01:25.840] know, that’s the way he got his removed [02:01:27.920] and my understanding is his wife had [02:01:30.159] one, too, and she kept hers in. So, [02:01:33.280] implants are real. Yeah, implants are [02:01:36.159] real. That’s one thing to a takeaway. [02:01:39.840] Yeah, it’s not a conspiracy theory. And [02:01:41.679] hybrids are real. That’s not a [02:01:43.280] conspiracy theory. [02:01:47.119] And you you said I mean you saying [02:01:50.239] hybrids are real. That’s not a [02:01:51.840] conspiracy theory. That is not based on [02:01:53.920] the symposium that you went to. That is [02:01:56.480] based on other intel. [02:02:00.080] Mhm. That you can’t talk about. That’s [02:02:02.320] correct. I cannot talk about that. Okay, [02:02:04.400] I’m going to show you a picture here of [02:02:06.000] uh there’s this lady that reached out to [02:02:07.440] me. Uh shout out to Sheila. We had a [02:02:11.599] phone call. [02:02:13.679] Um [02:02:15.440] and check this out. [02:02:21.840] That looks like a tooth. This is a [02:02:24.880] tooth. Uh-huh. [02:02:27.360] Wow. How about that? That’s in the [02:02:29.199] jawbone. Wow. [02:02:32.639] the and the dentist who saw this little [02:02:36.639] diddy and this is clearly like that’s [02:02:39.760] not a random object. It’s got like a [02:02:42.159] little antenna on it or something. See [02:02:44.000] that little appendage that looks like an [02:02:46.480] antenna? And um the the dentist was like [02:02:51.679] floored. He’s like in my 30 years I’ve [02:02:53.920] never seen this. He’s like did you feel [02:02:55.679] it? She’s like, “No, but I had all these [02:02:58.159] dreams of like these things, you know, [02:03:01.199] taking me and bringing me in.” So, it [02:03:03.520] started to make a lot of sense for her. [02:03:04.880] But that dentist was like, “I don’t know [02:03:06.400] what to do with this.” And he couldn’t [02:03:07.599] He’s like, “I could never get that out.” [02:03:10.480] Oh, yeah. She still has it. Oh, yeah. [02:03:12.480] Oh, yeah. Can’t get it out. He’s a [02:03:14.080] 30-year dentist. He’s like, I can’t I [02:03:15.920] would not even try to get that out. It [02:03:18.159] would be incredibly painful. And like [02:03:20.000] Yeah. Yeah. And yet she doesn’t feel it. [02:03:22.239] Yeah. It’s in the bone itself. That’s [02:03:24.239] why. Yeah. Yeah. She’s had multiple [02:03:26.080] X-rays, too. Yeah. And so, yeah, when I [02:03:28.960] see things like that, I go, that’s, [02:03:31.760] you know, it’s interesting. That’s to [02:03:34.080] say the least. All right, let’s get one [02:03:36.639] more question out of the way here. Last [02:03:38.400] question for for you and then we’ll let [02:03:39.920] you go. John, you’ve been so awesome [02:03:41.360] answering all these questions. [02:03:44.000] Um, oh, this is cool. This is a cute [02:03:47.280] question from Gina. [02:03:52.800] Yeah, maybe you have an opinion on this, [02:03:54.400] maybe you don’t. [02:03:56.719] Gina asks, “What do you think of the [02:03:58.719] authenticity of the Lerta file?” Are you [02:04:01.520] familiar with this? I heard of the [02:04:03.520] Lertafile. I can’t claim to be very [02:04:06.239] familiar with it. If you refresh my [02:04:08.159] memory, so it is this guy in Sweden who [02:04:10.880] apparently had a conversation with a [02:04:12.560] reptilian female. Uhhuh. Uh and then she [02:04:15.040] goes into like all sorts of details on [02:04:18.080] physics and interactions with beings or [02:04:21.840] anything. Are you familiar with that at [02:04:24.480] all or No, I am not. So I No opinion. I [02:04:26.960] can’t answer that question thoroughly. [02:04:28.639] I’m sorry. No, that’s fair. I’ll give [02:04:30.320] you mine. Um I think there I am higher [02:04:35.280] conviction [02:04:36.880] than I was when I was reading it that [02:04:40.239] this might have happened. [02:04:42.800] Um, but that conviction still remains [02:04:45.199] pretty low. Mhm. It’s just higher than [02:04:47.280] it was, probably 20% at this point. But [02:04:50.560] really interesting stuff uh was brought [02:04:52.320] up. If you ever have a chance to look [02:04:53.520] into it, it’s fun read. Mhm. As a piece [02:04:56.080] of fiction, highly entertaining, you [02:04:58.400] know, and if you take it as truth, I [02:04:59.920] mean, obviously worlds shattering, but [02:05:02.400] All right. Well, John, um, where can [02:05:04.960] people find you? Where can people not [02:05:07.360] physically, but online? Well, um I only [02:05:10.560] have uh one uh public social media [02:05:13.920] presence and that’s an X. Okay. And uh [02:05:17.520] my X handle I I actually used one of the [02:05:20.080] radars that the X this is the radar that [02:05:23.040] actually tracked uh these objects that [02:05:25.760] uh raise the alert level, these domes of [02:05:28.560] light. Yeah. On the Russian side. Um, [02:05:31.599] it’s uh [02:05:33.760] Pura P E C H O R A LPAR L P A R Pura [02:05:41.199] Alpar. Yeah, it’s Pura largeed phase [02:05:44.560] array radar. Okay. And so yeah, that’s [02:05:47.119] the radar that detected um uh UAP and [02:05:51.679] that uh caused the deputy secretary of [02:05:55.040] defense to wonder what the hell is going [02:05:56.320] on with the Russians. That’s what with [02:05:58.560] this radar. That’s a fun That’s a fun [02:06:01.280] Easter egg. Also sounds like a spell in [02:06:04.239] Harry Potter. Bura Elpar. Uh John [02:06:08.320] Ramirez, you’re an absolute gem. It was [02:06:10.400] so nice getting to know you. Uh so nice [02:06:12.480] chatting with you. Thank you for gracing [02:06:14.239] us with your presence and uh being very [02:06:17.040] open and candid with with all of your [02:06:18.800] answers both personal and [02:06:19.920] professionally. I really really [02:06:21.199] appreciate it. Thank you. Well, you’re [02:06:22.639] welcome and uh thanks very much for your [02:06:24.400] hospitality here. Um, I love this town [02:06:27.360] that you’re in and it’s it’s really [02:06:28.880] lovely. Um, and uh, I look forward to [02:06:32.400] all of this being over actually. I mean, [02:06:34.079] I just do I wish the NHA would do [02:06:36.400] something. Just end it all for us. Just [02:06:39.040] show up. Yeah. I don’t know if they will [02:06:41.119] or not. Or just government disclose [02:06:43.199] something. Well, if you ever talk to any [02:06:45.360] of them, tell them that they got an open [02:06:47.280] spot here on the podcast. We’d love to [02:06:49.760] have them in the skiff. All right. [02:06:51.440] Thanks, John. [02:06:53.440] Oh, and that’s it, sir. [02:06:56.800] [Music]