[00:00:00.320] So who is it then that’s really behind [00:00:03.280] this current push for disclosure? [00:00:05.120] >> There has arisen uh an insurgency group [00:00:08.639] that have uh occupied extremely high [00:00:11.759] positions uh in the defense department [00:00:14.799] uh inside the central intelligence [00:00:16.480] agency uh inside some of the private [00:00:18.640] aerospace corporations. There’s 24 of [00:00:21.199] them. Wow. [00:00:21.920] >> Okay. And I happen to know who they are. [00:00:24.160] And what they’ve done is they’ve formed [00:00:25.600] an association. [00:00:26.880] >> Is that the first time you said that? [00:00:28.400] >> Yes. [00:00:28.720] >> Oh wow. Okay, this is breaking news. He [00:00:31.359] had had a private conversation with with [00:00:33.760] President George HW Bush. Yes. And [00:00:36.079] George HW Bush had confirmed to him that [00:00:39.440] in April of 1964 that three UFOs had [00:00:44.480] approached the tarmac at the Hollowman [00:00:47.200] Air Force Base in New Mexico and the [00:00:50.000] center one descended and landed on the [00:00:52.160] tarmac uh and a humanoid nonhuman being [00:00:57.520] came out of the craft. more importantly [00:01:01.199] uh the method by which they actually [00:01:04.799] transport from their star system to ours [00:01:07.760] is through a form of remote projection [00:01:11.119] you know like Ingo Swan for example in [00:01:13.119] in penetration talks about uh projecting [00:01:16.560] conceptually himself up onto the surface [00:01:18.560] of the moon. [00:01:19.119] >> Yeah. Like billocating [00:01:20.240] >> and then billocating up there and and [00:01:22.400] there’s some sort of a plasma type of [00:01:25.119] phenomenon that occurs. This is the [00:01:27.200] means by which they actually transport. [00:01:29.680] Uh that it’s not just super fast. They [00:01:32.400] are able to direct their consciousness. [00:01:35.280] They’ve got some kind of what they call [00:01:36.960] psionic assist that can collapse the [00:01:39.840] wave function. They can focus on a [00:01:42.000] particular location and they can ramp up [00:01:44.720] the the phenomenon to the extent of [00:01:46.720] transporting the ship. Bang bang like [00:01:48.640] that. [00:01:51.759] What if the most massive story in human [00:01:54.479] history isn’t simply being hidden from [00:01:56.880] you, but managed? And if that is the [00:02:00.320] case, which it seems like it very well [00:02:02.240] could be, the next question is who or [00:02:05.840] what is managing it? Danny Shehan is [00:02:08.879] someone who’s been at the center of not [00:02:10.239] just that and related questions for [00:02:12.239] decades, but some of the most [00:02:13.840] consequential and controversial legal [00:02:16.640] efforts in the last 50 years. Before we [00:02:19.520] proceed, I do want to give you a heads [00:02:21.200] up. [music] This mindmeld does not [00:02:23.599] exactly hold your hand. Uh Danny just [00:02:26.879] kind of locks in immediately. He [00:02:29.840] summarizes a lot of the broadstrokes of [00:02:32.400] the disclosure conversation quickly and [00:02:34.800] thoroughly and he really just lays it [00:02:36.879] out there in terms of what he sees as [00:02:39.200] the current state of the topic. And I [00:02:41.680] really just give him a lot of latitude, [00:02:43.760] a lot of space to riff in this one as [00:02:46.560] you’re going to see. And I do have to [00:02:48.400] dangle something of the tease for uh [00:02:51.040] later on in this mindmelt because we do [00:02:53.200] hit some pretty novel territory. Danny [00:02:56.480] shares something he says he’s never said [00:02:58.560] publicly before and it raises serious [00:03:00.800] questions about who could be behind this [00:03:03.519] new push for disclosure. We also riff on [00:03:06.159] a number of other pieces of lore that [00:03:08.560] just absolutely sent me having to do [00:03:11.680] with some of my favorite nuggets. [00:03:14.720] consciousness, remote viewing, and the [00:03:17.280] true identity of the phenomenon. And [00:03:19.680] with that, if you don’t know the [00:03:20.720] legendary Danny Shehan, he’s an attorney [00:03:23.360] who’s been involved in cases like the [00:03:25.040] Pentagon Papers, Watergate, Iran Contra, [00:03:28.959] and he later became legal counsel for [00:03:31.040] Steven Greer’s disclosure project. He’s [00:03:33.760] currently representing UFO [00:03:35.760] whistleblowers and he is also at the [00:03:38.400] helm of the new paradigm institute which [00:03:41.120] seeks to quote compel full and [00:03:44.159] responsible UAP disclosure from [00:03:46.239] governments, private or public companies [00:03:48.400] and individuals and to prepare the human [00:03:50.879] family for the cultural shifts that will [00:03:53.519] come with irrefutable evidence of [00:03:55.840] extraterrestrial contact. Let’s get into [00:03:58.879] this one. But first, do like, subscribe, [00:04:01.840] hype the video on YouTube. If you are [00:04:04.400] listening on Apple or Spotify, [00:04:06.560] subscribe, leave a review. All of the [00:04:09.040] above do help and are deeply [00:04:11.680] appreciated. So much love for being [00:04:13.760] here, my friends. Let’s commence this [00:04:15.519] mind meld with the great Danny Shehan. [00:04:19.280] So Danny, like I was just saying, I feel [00:04:21.759] like this is a really auspicious [00:04:23.120] synchronistic time to have you in town [00:04:25.040] and both be doing South by Southwest [00:04:27.360] because it is one of, I think, the most [00:04:29.600] consequential times in UFO disclosure in [00:04:32.720] recent memory as someone who’s been [00:04:34.160] paying attention. And of course, people [00:04:36.240] on UFO Twitter will probably uh disagree [00:04:39.040] and uh quibble about what’s real, what’s [00:04:42.560] an op, what’s, you know, what’s going [00:04:44.080] on. But [00:04:45.680] >> from a mainstream perspective, I think [00:04:47.520] the release of Age of Disclosure and [00:04:49.840] this promise by Trump are two of the [00:04:52.800] biggest developments I can remember [00:04:54.880] seeing, you know, in since I’ve been [00:04:56.960] interested, at least again, in a [00:04:58.560] mainstream way for all of my uh [00:05:01.040] skeptical um friends out there. [00:05:04.639] >> Um [00:05:05.440] >> but yeah, what is your assessment of [00:05:07.280] where we’re at? And do you think these [00:05:08.720] are Yeah. [00:05:09.360] >> consequential? I think I think that the [00:05:12.639] uh you know obviously uh the people [00:05:15.280] who’ve been at this for as long as I [00:05:17.680] have for 50 years uh saw the and it’s [00:05:21.520] always talked about the the December [00:05:23.759] 17th 2017 front page article by the New [00:05:27.600] York Times you know in which it was [00:05:30.320] acknowledged uh by Lou Alzando and Chris [00:05:34.080] Melon uh not only that there was in fact [00:05:37.280] an above top secret program actively [00:05:40.639] underway in the United States Pentagon [00:05:43.120] investigating UFOs as such uh and that [00:05:46.960] they had concluded that UFOs were real, [00:05:50.479] that they were not swamp gas, they were [00:05:52.800] not just mistaken flocks of birds or [00:05:56.800] spotlights shining off the bottom of [00:05:58.560] clouds. This was an extremely important [00:06:00.720] watershed uh because people from a uh [00:06:04.000] from a uh epistemological point of view, [00:06:07.120] you know, that they they look to sources [00:06:09.520] of authority uh to tell them what’s [00:06:11.919] real. Most people don’t spend the time [00:06:14.319] or have the time to investigate the [00:06:17.199] dimensions of reality itself, even [00:06:19.360] political reality, unless they’re told [00:06:21.520] by some authoritative source. And the [00:06:23.600] New York Times over time has become that [00:06:26.240] one of those sources. Uh, and when the [00:06:29.039] New York Times board of editors made [00:06:31.280] this decision that they were going to go [00:06:32.960] with a front page above the fold, as [00:06:35.759] they refer to it, story, uh, confirming [00:06:38.960] through authoritative sources like Lou [00:06:41.120] Alzando, who was the chief of security [00:06:43.759] for the advanced weapons special access [00:06:47.039] program inside the Pentagon, and Chris [00:06:49.440] Melon, uh, who had been the, uh, [00:06:51.919] assistant deputy director, uh, of the, [00:06:54.960] uh, of the Defense Department for [00:06:56.960] intelligence. [00:06:58.160] both under the Clinton administration, [00:06:59.919] Democrats and W. Bush uh Republican [00:07:03.520] administration telling the world through [00:07:06.639] the New York Times uh that that UFOs [00:07:10.479] were real uh that they were not just [00:07:12.960] swamp gas and all and in fact that the [00:07:15.520] United States government was involved in [00:07:18.639] uh in a program of searching for them in [00:07:21.759] trying to quote understand them. Now, [00:07:24.400] this is this was a a a definite [00:07:26.720] watershed uh moment, okay? And strangely [00:07:30.240] enough, from December of 2017, you know, [00:07:33.440] all the way to 2023, [00:07:37.440] you know, like a six-year period, there [00:07:39.360] was this whole settling in of that [00:07:41.599] particular insight. Now, that that uh [00:07:44.639] that this was real. That was a very [00:07:46.880] important uh crossover because up until [00:07:49.599] that point virtually every single [00:07:51.680] authority inside the United States [00:07:53.440] government kept insisting that UFOs [00:07:56.240] weren’t real. Uh that the phenomenon was [00:07:58.879] just mistaken identity on the part of [00:08:01.680] the observers. So that was an extremely [00:08:04.080] important moment very it’s hard to under [00:08:06.319] overstate how important that was. And [00:08:08.560] then in on July 26th of 2023, [00:08:13.759] you had David Grush uh come forward and [00:08:17.680] in another authoritative setting, in [00:08:20.080] this case, the United States Congress, [00:08:22.400] the House Oversight Committee, under [00:08:24.560] oath telling the people not only that [00:08:27.599] UFOs were real, but that we were in [00:08:30.400] possession of at least one of them. [00:08:32.399] Yeah. you know, and which he referred to [00:08:34.000] as a nonhuman origin extraterrestrial [00:08:38.080] spacecraft. [00:08:38.880] >> Yeah. [00:08:39.599] >> And in in possession of the bodies [00:08:42.240] >> Mhm. [00:08:42.719] >> that were recovered from the craft that [00:08:45.360] had been scientifically examined in the [00:08:47.600] famous biologics. [00:08:48.720] >> Yeah. His famous biologics statement. [00:08:50.880] But it it means that they’re they’re [00:08:53.200] nonhuman beings. Okay. That’s another [00:08:56.320] kind of extraordinary moment. uh not [00:08:59.200] only because of the substantive content [00:09:01.120] of it which you know people had been [00:09:03.200] speculating about uh but to have an [00:09:05.279] authoritative source who had been a [00:09:07.360] highranking official in the National [00:09:10.720] Geospatial Intelligence Agency which [00:09:13.680] people didn’t even know what that was [00:09:15.446] [laughter] [00:09:16.240] at that point people didn’t know there [00:09:17.519] was such a thing right and that he’d [00:09:19.600] been a high ranking official in the [00:09:21.360] National Reconnaissance Office which [00:09:23.200] more people had heard about but the the [00:09:25.600] fact that he was on the special task [00:09:27.760] force that have been put together inside [00:09:29.920] the Pentagon to do this investigation. [00:09:32.959] Okay? And that was the UAP task force. [00:09:36.080] All right? Uh and and so for him coming [00:09:38.160] in front of the Congress and very [00:09:39.760] importantly to have the Congress of the [00:09:42.800] United States decide that they were [00:09:44.959] going to put him in front of the cameras [00:09:47.120] live out to the whole world of him [00:09:50.399] asserting this uh took on the authority [00:09:54.320] of the Congress of the United States. [00:09:56.560] Okay, that’s another extraordinarily [00:09:58.800] important moment. Okay, so that that uh [00:10:02.399] in then uh the the fight went on uh with [00:10:06.480] Lou Alzando. Lou, another important [00:10:09.120] moment that most people don’t realize [00:10:11.120] the importance of Lou Alzando [00:10:14.160] uh because the the no nothings inside [00:10:17.360] the Pentagon, you know, responded [00:10:19.680] immediately with her hair on fire [00:10:21.440] saying, “Wait a second, none of this [00:10:22.880] none of this is true.” uh you know that [00:10:25.440] uh the the fact is we don’t know who Lu [00:10:27.760] Alzando is. Lu Alzando has never been [00:10:30.720] part of the defense department. Uh we [00:10:33.600] have no records of there being any such [00:10:35.440] program. It was a totally bizarre thing. [00:10:37.440] You know Susan Gao and and others you [00:10:39.680] know inside the press office of the of [00:10:42.079] who either hadn’t gotten the memo [00:10:45.182] [laughter] that that things had changed [00:10:47.519] or didn’t care. And the bottom line is [00:10:50.320] Lou uh got really upset about this that [00:10:53.040] they were calling him a liar publicly. [00:10:55.040] Yeah. And here here’s a guy, you know, [00:10:56.399] that’s got a lifelong career inside the [00:10:58.880] United States military is a very high [00:11:01.680] level uh counter intelligence officer [00:11:04.880] >> being having the world told that he’s a [00:11:06.800] liar. So he got very upset about this. [00:11:09.680] And so there’s another extraordinarily [00:11:12.000] important moment that happened here. And [00:11:14.079] it was Lou Alzando. [00:11:15.839] >> Uh oh. Well, there was the other one, [00:11:17.279] the to the stars academy. Yes. There was [00:11:20.000] this thing that happened, you know, uh [00:11:22.160] uh in like 2021, [00:11:26.000] uh where all of a sudden, uh Tom Dong, [00:11:29.360] kind of a cultural hero, you know, of of [00:11:32.560] the big band, [00:11:34.079] >> you know, had put together a group of [00:11:36.079] men, uh who were quite authoritative, [00:11:38.959] you know, one of them was Lou Alzando [00:11:40.880] and and you had Chris Melon, you had Hal [00:11:43.200] Putoff, [00:11:44.399] >> uh you had Jay Stratton, you know, you [00:11:46.560] had a number of these people that were [00:11:48.720] sitting with him on a a nationwide uh uh [00:11:53.040] uh uh I guess they call it streaming [00:11:55.600] event uh saying, “Oh, here we are and [00:11:58.560] we’re a group that’s going to be uh [00:12:00.959] going forward in not only investigating [00:12:03.600] further the information about the UFOs [00:12:05.760] because they’re all real, but we’re [00:12:07.760] going to be using some of the technology [00:12:11.120] uh because one of the other things that [00:12:13.040] that uh that was said in 2023 [00:12:17.839] later by uh by uh Dave Grush is that he [00:12:23.040] told the world that our Pentagon was [00:12:25.680] secretly trying to reverse engineer [00:12:28.560] >> the technology. Yeah. [00:12:30.240] >> And he said that in open session in [00:12:32.480] Congress and now this is getting into [00:12:34.079] weapons stuff. [00:12:34.880] >> Right. Right. That now that’s that’s an [00:12:37.120] extraordinarily important thing to have [00:12:39.200] to have a person of his stature in [00:12:41.279] knowledge be talking about the fact that [00:12:43.440] we’re engaged in the development of a of [00:12:45.839] a weapons system to utilize the [00:12:49.760] technology that we’ve recovered from [00:12:52.320] nonhuman origin extraterrestrial [00:12:54.800] spacecraft, you know, [snorts] to uh [00:12:57.200] examine their propulsion system and [00:12:59.279] their anti-gravity. Yeah. for for him [00:13:01.440] for him to be saying things like this in [00:13:04.399] open session in Congress. Obviously, the [00:13:07.839] the the House Oversight Committee had [00:13:10.399] seen a copy of his proposed testimony. [00:13:14.399] Yes. You know, he had actually given [00:13:15.920] them a a typed version of it. So, so [00:13:19.760] what we have here happening uh is the [00:13:22.399] the penetration into sort of the the the [00:13:25.279] you know the the sacred areas of the [00:13:28.079] Pentagon. We’re talking about a weapons [00:13:30.399] program being developed, right? You [00:13:32.240] know, that that’ll usually get you shot, [00:13:34.320] you know, if you talk about something [00:13:35.920] like that. So, so all of this was taken [00:13:38.399] those those are serious moments. And [00:13:41.519] then, as I said, when Lou started being [00:13:44.560] really upset over the fact that Susan [00:13:47.120] Gao and some of the other people inside [00:13:48.720] the Pentagon were publicly calling him a [00:13:51.040] liar uh in asserting that they had no [00:13:53.440] records of him at all, uh he decided he [00:13:57.040] was going to file a complaint, you know, [00:13:59.199] uh with the inspector general of the [00:14:01.040] defense department. Uh and he, this is [00:14:04.720] the event that people didn’t realize was [00:14:06.880] quite as important as it was. He reached [00:14:09.120] out to me. [00:14:10.399] >> Okay. He called me, you know, and I uh [00:14:14.320] for 20 years had been general counsel [00:14:16.560] for the disclosure project, right, of [00:14:18.560] Dr. Steven Greer. [00:14:19.839] >> Yes. [00:14:20.560] >> Prior to that, in 1994, [00:14:23.440] I was the legal counsel for for Dr. John [00:14:26.079] Mack. Yes. At Harvard. Okay. And prior [00:14:29.040] to that, I had been general counsel [00:14:31.440] under President uh Carter of him tasking [00:14:35.680] the Congressional Research Service to [00:14:38.240] dig out every single document that we [00:14:40.240] had in the government about UFOs and [00:14:43.120] about extraterrestrial intelligence that [00:14:45.760] might be connected to the UFO. So I had [00:14:48.160] I had had this long history, you know, [00:14:50.720] uh starting when I was at Jesuit [00:14:52.160] headquarters. Yeah. Uh in the office in [00:14:54.639] charge of their public policy positions, [00:14:57.120] right, as a as a a candidate for the [00:14:59.279] Jesuit [00:14:59.680] >> precept. And so that that when Lou [00:15:02.800] reached out to me to ask me to be his [00:15:06.240] attorney uh in preparing this complaint [00:15:09.120] that he was going to be filing with the [00:15:10.639] inspector general, what I did in in [00:15:13.199] conversations with Lou uh [00:15:16.880] got Lou to acknowledge to me that part [00:15:19.760] of his upset wasn’t just that they were [00:15:21.440] calling him a liar, but the fact that [00:15:23.120] they were lying to Congress [00:15:24.880] >> and they were lying to the American [00:15:26.480] people that they had a whole program [00:15:28.560] going on, a scops program directed [00:15:31.600] against the the civilian population of [00:15:34.000] our our country which is absolutely [00:15:36.480] unconstitutional and technically illegal [00:15:39.519] as well. Okay. And so so he decided that [00:15:43.360] he would file a more expansive complaint [00:15:47.040] >> that it wasn’t just oh they’re picking [00:15:48.720] on me and retaliating against me for for [00:15:51.040] being a whistleblower. what he did. I [00:15:53.600] pointed out to him that technically it [00:15:56.079] didn’t qualify because he was no longer [00:15:58.399] employed because he resigned. Okay? And [00:16:01.279] once you’ve resigned, you you don’t have [00:16:03.519] any standing to bring a complaint uh as [00:16:06.160] retaliation inside the the uh the [00:16:09.120] statue. But we went forward with it and [00:16:12.639] uh what it was an extraordinary [00:16:14.800] experience. you know, we went together [00:16:17.199] into the big headquarters of the [00:16:19.120] inspector general’s uh right next door [00:16:21.519] to the Pentagon there, uh, and sat down [00:16:24.079] with the inspector general himself. Uh, [00:16:26.639] and you could tell that the the he the [00:16:29.360] inspector general had not been briefed [00:16:30.720] in on this program. [00:16:31.759] >> He had didn’t know what [00:16:32.959] >> No, no, no. Didn’t know what was coming, [00:16:35.040] but he just thought that, you know, that [00:16:36.800] this guy was whining about it and and [00:16:38.880] was saying things that that as far as [00:16:40.880] the inspector general knew weren’t true. [00:16:43.199] Uh, and so Lou started do putting on a [00:16:46.480] seminar for the inspector general. Let [00:16:48.880] me tell you what I know, he said. And [00:16:50.880] let me tell you how I know. Uh, and he [00:16:52.880] started laying this out for him. Uh, and [00:16:55.040] I was sitting there at his side, you [00:16:56.880] know, with with the uh with the [00:16:59.040] inspector general kind of going, who’s [00:17:00.720] this guy? You know, uh, and and then I [00:17:03.680] would chime in saying, you know, not [00:17:05.360] only that, but here’s another person [00:17:07.199] that I know about that you should talk [00:17:09.360] to who can confirm what Lou is saying. [00:17:11.919] you know, I’m here to confirm. And I [00:17:13.439] told him who I was and he was kind of [00:17:15.520] astonished, you know, the the legal [00:17:17.679] counsel, general counsel for the United [00:17:19.120] States Jesuit headquarters, you know, [00:17:21.120] would would be there confirming that [00:17:23.280] this was actually true. And it started [00:17:25.520] to dawn on the inspector general. [00:17:27.600] >> Yeah. [00:17:28.079] >> That he was now getting to discover [00:17:30.320] something was true that he had not been [00:17:33.039] told about, right? And so he started [00:17:35.600] sending out to get other people from his [00:17:37.679] staff to come into the meeting. It was [00:17:40.000] it was quite quite an extraordinary [00:17:41.760] experience. And then they started filing [00:17:43.840] in and coming in, you know, and it [00:17:45.200] started just building up and then a full [00:17:48.400] bird colonel from the United States Air [00:17:50.000] Force comes in and sits at the end of [00:17:52.320] the table and he hadn’t been told about [00:17:54.880] this. And so you could tell that there [00:17:57.280] there began to develop in the course of [00:17:59.280] the meeting this sense of being offended [00:18:02.080] not by Lou, but by the people that were [00:18:04.480] lying to them. Right. Yeah, [00:18:06.160] >> friends, I have been doubling down on [00:18:08.799] content over in the YouTube members [00:18:10.720] section and on Patreon. So, if you [00:18:13.440] desire further novelty, point your [00:18:16.080] Qualia in said directions. If you do [00:18:19.280] join up at patreon.com/thirdeyrops, [00:18:22.400] you will also get access to a patronon [00:18:24.559] Discord and other rewards. Or if you [00:18:27.360] just want that content, flip over to the [00:18:30.160] member section here on YouTube and [00:18:32.400] become an initiate. so much love for [00:18:34.799] supporting and back to the mind. [00:18:37.280] >> And then they started filing in and [00:18:39.120] coming in, you know, and it started just [00:18:40.480] building up and then a full bird colonel [00:18:43.840] from the United States Air Force comes [00:18:45.520] in and sits at the end of the table and [00:18:48.320] he hadn’t been told about this. And so [00:18:50.720] you could tell that there there began to [00:18:53.039] develop in the course of the meeting [00:18:54.559] this sense of being offended not by Lou, [00:18:58.160] but by the people that were lying to [00:18:59.760] them, right? And so the so we and one of [00:19:03.039] the things that Lou said with with some [00:19:05.440] conversation with me is that to demand [00:19:08.000] that the the inspector general insist [00:19:10.880] that the defense department uh amend [00:19:13.760] their policies so that they actually [00:19:16.080] have a protocol, written protocol [00:19:19.039] authorizing people in the military [00:19:21.280] services which they had jurisdiction [00:19:23.360] over to come forward and to share [00:19:25.919] information with Congress about the UFO [00:19:28.720] phenomenon. And they did it. They they [00:19:31.520] actually did it. They they responded to [00:19:33.760] Lou Alzando to actually issue a a [00:19:36.720] directive uh ordering the people that if [00:19:39.679] they had information about this to come [00:19:41.200] forward and then the Congress followed [00:19:44.080] up on it uh dropped the ball on it, but [00:19:46.720] they followed up on it by saying, “Let’s [00:19:48.559] set up a special office uh inside the [00:19:51.840] defense department uh with the [00:19:53.919] intelligence agency.” So the director of [00:19:56.160] national intelligence and the the [00:19:58.240] secretary of defense were charged with [00:20:00.640] creating an office to which people could [00:20:03.760] come inside the military and [00:20:05.360] intelligence community and deliver their [00:20:07.360] information. And that was the advanced [00:20:09.520] uh aerospace uh arrow the arrow office [00:20:13.679] the advanced uh aeronautic or anomaly [00:20:17.440] advanced anomaly resolution office. Yes. [00:20:20.240] Right. Uh and so [00:20:21.679] >> which has become quite controversial [00:20:23.120] because some [00:20:23.919] >> well rightly so because it was still [00:20:26.240] under the control of the of the [00:20:27.840] intelligence community i.e. the CIA. [00:20:30.400] >> Yes. [00:20:31.039] >> And the defense department. The very [00:20:32.799] people who had been lying about this for [00:20:34.880] 80 years. And I was one of the initial [00:20:38.080] people that was contacted by Arrow say, [00:20:40.960] “Okay, get on in here and tell us what [00:20:44.320] you know.” Uh and it was Sean [00:20:46.080] Kirkpatrick himself that interviewed me, [00:20:48.880] >> right? It wasn’t just some lowly staff [00:20:50.799] person. And so I sat right there and [00:20:52.640] told Sean. I said, “Okay, here are the [00:20:54.880] people. You talk to them, you know, get [00:20:57.039] them and and they’ll tell you they’ve [00:20:58.720] got firsthand knowledge about this, you [00:21:00.640] know, and in including people that were [00:21:02.799] part of the crash retrieval program, you [00:21:05.440] know, uh whom I had interviewed when I [00:21:07.679] was legal counsel for the the disclosure [00:21:10.159] project, Steven Greer. Yes. Right. And [00:21:12.400] so I had all this information and so I [00:21:14.320] started pouring it on him. And I got to [00:21:16.720] be very suspicious when I saw him lay [00:21:19.120] his pen down and stopped taking notes [00:21:22.320] >> cuz because it wasn’t recorded. They [00:21:24.799] weren’t recording the information. They [00:21:27.039] were scribbling down notes and he just [00:21:29.760] lays his pencil or pen down and stopped [00:21:32.320] taking notes. And I knew what that was [00:21:34.400] because I’d been through it before when [00:21:36.320] I was legal counsel in the Iran Contra [00:21:38.159] case and FBI people that had been sent [00:21:41.200] over to me by uh Lawrence Walsh, the [00:21:44.000] special prosecutor got appointed. When I [00:21:46.000] started telling them inside stuff about [00:21:48.080] what was going on, the FBI guy, this guy [00:21:51.039] Okorn, just laid his pen down just like [00:21:54.000] that. And I knew what that meant. It was [00:21:55.919] they didn’t want any record of this [00:21:57.679] established. Okay. And then as Sean [00:22:00.240] Kirkpatre lied publicly uh in in talked [00:22:04.480] to uh uh you know Senator Gillibrand [00:22:07.840] another under oath saying they had [00:22:10.159] received no information of any kind [00:22:12.480] suggesting that there was any kind of [00:22:14.000] crash retrieval program. You know we’ [00:22:16.000] given him the names and contact [00:22:17.600] information. Yes. And he’d done nothing. [00:22:20.000] So we knew right away that that was a [00:22:21.760] bogus operation. Uh and began saying so. [00:22:24.880] Now, I had the great advantage of the [00:22:26.559] fact that I had refused to get a [00:22:28.799] security clearance. They kept saying, [00:22:30.640] “Oh, look at if you’re going to be [00:22:31.760] representing Lu Alzando and be helping [00:22:33.679] him prepare this, you know, that he [00:22:36.240] can’t tell you things that are [00:22:37.520] classified unless you get a a security [00:22:40.400] clearance.” But if I had gotten a [00:22:41.919] security clearance, then anything and [00:22:44.159] everything that I had learned over by [00:22:45.840] that time a 45 year period of working in [00:22:48.720] this whole area, I wouldn’t have been [00:22:50.240] able to say it publicly because they [00:22:52.640] would pretend that it came because I had [00:22:54.240] the clearance. [00:22:55.120] >> Yeah. [00:22:55.520] >> So I refused. [00:22:56.960] >> Yeah. So that that’s a really good [00:22:58.640] summary, maybe a fast-paced summary for [00:23:01.039] people who who aren’t familiar with all [00:23:02.799] of this on sort of the major bullet [00:23:04.960] points of uh this latest wave of [00:23:07.280] disclosure. And this all preceded [00:23:09.360] >> this all preceded the the uh the [00:23:12.640] documentary, [00:23:13.760] >> right? [00:23:14.159] >> Right. And it preceded Trump’s pretended [00:23:17.600] assertion he was going to disclose this [00:23:19.360] stuff. It was all utter You [00:23:21.679] know, anybody who has a political IQ [00:23:23.600] above room temperature knows Trump [00:23:26.559] because Trump made the same promise to [00:23:28.400] disclose all the Epstein files. [00:23:30.159] >> Right. Right. [00:23:30.799] >> And the minute he said, “Oh, the minute [00:23:32.799] if you elect me for a second term, uh [00:23:34.720] that’s the first thing I’ll do.” and he [00:23:36.480] actually choreographed the people from [00:23:38.559] the Freedom Caucus, these eight very [00:23:41.039] conservative members of the House to [00:23:42.880] stand on the steps of the of the [00:23:44.480] Congress with these pretended folders of [00:23:47.520] here’s the files, you know, let’s let’s [00:23:50.159] get all these out. [00:23:51.039] >> And then they turn around and say, “Oh, [00:23:52.240] there are no files and it’s only upon [00:23:54.880] severe public demand and outcry that [00:23:57.200] they produce anything.” [00:23:58.159] >> Well, and and the fact that the members [00:24:00.159] of Congress started getting the heat [00:24:02.400] because the the people were really [00:24:04.240] pissed off over the fact that Trump had [00:24:07.039] betrayed them. I mean, they the more [00:24:09.440] conservative people in the country had [00:24:11.679] had placed confidence in him personally, [00:24:15.039] right? Which he of course demanded. [00:24:16.960] >> Yeah. [00:24:17.440] >> And then when he he wouldn’t do it and [00:24:19.520] started pushing back, they were going to [00:24:21.840] their Congress people saying, “Okay, [00:24:23.919] we’re poed over what he’s doing. We want [00:24:26.240] you to go ahead and do something.” So [00:24:27.919] the congress people started going, [00:24:29.279] “Well, look, uh, you know, we hadn’t had [00:24:31.679] any motive of our own to find out about [00:24:33.760] this because who knows what’s in there, [00:24:36.000] you know, and who we know that might be [00:24:38.000] in those files.” So they hadn’t been [00:24:39.679] motivated to do anything until people [00:24:41.840] really started, you know, getting in the [00:24:43.360] streets with, you know, torches and [00:24:44.640] pitchforks. [00:24:45.840] >> So then what they did is they they uh [00:24:48.720] they actually passed or they had a bill [00:24:51.919] for the transparency on the the Epstein [00:24:55.279] files. They had the Epstein Files [00:24:57.279] Transparency Act. Yeah. To be clear. And [00:25:00.240] then Mike Johnson, the speaker of the [00:25:02.480] house, at the behest of Trump, refused [00:25:05.200] to put it on the floor for a vote. [00:25:06.880] >> Right. [00:25:07.679] >> And so what the Congress people did in [00:25:09.679] the House, they actually went to the [00:25:11.440] point of of of getting a discharge [00:25:13.679] petition prepared. and that if you can [00:25:15.600] get a majority of the members of the 435 [00:25:18.080] members of Congress to demand that a [00:25:20.159] bill be put on the floor despite the [00:25:22.960] sacred fact that the speaker of the [00:25:25.600] house didn’t want it to go to the floor. [00:25:27.760] Yeah. [00:25:28.080] >> And you know that’s a longstanding [00:25:30.000] procedure in the in the Congress and [00:25:32.480] this discharge petition is a very very [00:25:34.400] rare thing to happen but they did it. [00:25:36.799] Okay. And then it went on to the floor [00:25:38.559] and passed, of course. And so now there [00:25:40.720] was a direct command from the Congress [00:25:43.840] to the Justice Department directly [00:25:46.320] demanding that they turn the stuff over. [00:25:48.320] And then Trump intervened and started in [00:25:50.480] in instructing uh the attorney general [00:25:54.159] uh you know to not turn over the [00:25:56.640] documents. Yeah. And so that it it was [00:25:58.720] now displaying the fact that Trump was [00:26:01.440] lying about this and was further [00:26:03.760] betraying the people. So they got even [00:26:05.440] more and more angry. And so what [00:26:07.039] happened is the House of Representatives [00:26:09.520] House Oversight Committee set up a [00:26:11.600] special task force. This is another [00:26:14.320] major point that they set up an actual [00:26:17.279] task force of 12 people, Republicans and [00:26:20.080] Democrats. uh is in a sense not a full [00:26:23.279] subcommittee [00:26:24.640] >> cuz cuz uh James Comr who’s the chairman [00:26:27.120] of the House Oversight Committee didn’t [00:26:28.880] give them part of his budget, didn’t [00:26:30.960] assign them subpoena power, didn’t [00:26:32.480] assign them any staff, but went through [00:26:34.880] the motions say, “Okay, well, we’re [00:26:36.240] going to have a task force on this, [00:26:37.679] which is going to have jurisdiction over [00:26:39.600] not only getting all of the Epstein [00:26:42.400] files revealed, but all of the UFO [00:26:44.720] files.” [00:26:45.279] >> Wow. [00:26:45.840] >> As well. This is an extraordinarily [00:26:48.640] important point of thing and these are [00:26:51.279] kind of things going on behind the [00:26:52.480] scenes that it’s helpful to get a chance [00:26:54.080] to talk with you about this that people [00:26:55.840] don’t know about it. They’ve heard about [00:26:57.440] this task force, [00:26:58.960] >> but it’s the one that’s just lighting a [00:27:01.440] fire under Trump and under the justice [00:27:03.440] department to get at all of the uh the [00:27:05.679] Epstein files. But not only that, but [00:27:08.240] it’s establishing a pathway by means [00:27:11.200] procedural pathway by means of which we [00:27:13.760] can do the same stuff with regard to the [00:27:15.679] UFO stuff. So that we’re letting the the [00:27:18.559] we’re letting the uh the Epstein files [00:27:20.960] people all all run by um Anna Pelina [00:27:24.000] Luna. [00:27:24.880] >> Uh she’s got square responsibility for [00:27:27.919] doing this, for getting the Epstein [00:27:29.679] files out and she’s delegated Eric [00:27:32.559] Berles. [00:27:33.440] >> Yes. uh another member of the extremely [00:27:36.799] conservative person, right? Extremely [00:27:39.039] conservative, but you know, he’s like [00:27:40.640] Mr. Smith goes to Washington, you know, [00:27:43.120] he’s a Jimmy Stewart kind of character [00:27:45.039] and he’s he just believes that the [00:27:47.520] Constitution is functioning uh and that [00:27:49.840] he’s going to go right forward and get [00:27:51.360] this stuff. So, so now we have the task [00:27:54.720] force, which is extremely important in [00:27:56.880] from an investigatory point of view [00:27:58.720] because there’s a go-to place. there’s a [00:28:01.120] go-to place that can be trusted. Uh, and [00:28:03.919] they knew they couldn’t trust Arrow. [00:28:05.840] >> So, the people that had the inside [00:28:07.520] information and they’d been authorized [00:28:09.279] by the regulation that had been passed [00:28:10.960] now by the Defense Department to come [00:28:12.799] forward and give information to [00:28:14.240] Congress, but they knew Arrow wasn’t the [00:28:16.320] place to do it because it would just go [00:28:18.000] there and die. And so, what they did is [00:28:20.000] they began to go to the Senate [00:28:22.480] Intelligence Committee [00:28:24.399] >> inside the Congress and deliver [00:28:26.240] firsthand information. So 40 of the [00:28:29.200] people from inside the the UFO secret [00:28:32.720] program, reverse engineering program [00:28:35.279] started coming forward to the Senate [00:28:37.279] Intelligence Committee staff and giving [00:28:39.679] them all the information. So now the [00:28:42.000] Senate has it. Uh, and of course then [00:28:44.720] the thing that was so extraordinarily [00:28:46.880] important, you know, I keep saying one [00:28:49.039] thing is the United States Senate passed [00:28:51.760] a 64page bill, [00:28:53.600] >> right, [00:28:54.080] >> ordering them commanding all of the the [00:28:57.039] six US military services, uh, all 18 of [00:29:00.080] the United States intelligence agencies, [00:29:02.240] all 32 of the United States Defense [00:29:04.080] Department agencies and departments, and [00:29:07.120] all of the private aerospace [00:29:08.720] corporations that had ever been put into [00:29:10.880] possession of any information by our [00:29:12.720] government about these programs that [00:29:14.880] they were commanded to gather together [00:29:17.520] every single piece of information they’d [00:29:19.520] ever had about the UFO issue and [00:29:21.919] extraterrestrial intelligence and non [00:29:24.640] intelligence sources that may be [00:29:26.799] responsible for the phenomenon and gave [00:29:28.960] them 300 days from the passage of the [00:29:32.159] statute 300 days to get it all put [00:29:35.200] together and turn it over immediately [00:29:38.720] >> to the to the uh it’s a national archive [00:29:42.320] lives. But then the the Senate bill went [00:29:45.679] to the House for approval. The Senate [00:29:48.159] the Senate Well, also one of the things [00:29:50.159] that they did in the in the Senate bill [00:29:52.240] was they said they commanded the [00:29:54.080] president to appoint a nine-person [00:29:56.480] review board, an independently appointed [00:30:00.480] review board to review all of that [00:30:02.559] information and decide what’s to be [00:30:06.159] disclosed to the public. Yeah. Right. [00:30:08.640] including [00:30:10.240] another major milestone, including [00:30:13.039] everything older than 25 years. [00:30:15.600] >> Okay. [00:30:16.399] >> Okay. This another one of those little [00:30:17.600] buried things. [00:30:18.159] >> So, so theoretically, they’re supposed [00:30:19.760] to disclose whatever they can disclose [00:30:22.240] now currently. And anything over 25 [00:30:24.960] years old, they’re supposed to just let [00:30:26.480] it out. Bang it out. Okay. And so that [00:30:29.279] was that was in and the house agreed to [00:30:31.679] to they didn’t agree to have a the [00:30:33.840] committee, but they did order them to [00:30:35.919] gather all the stuff together and to get [00:30:38.159] get it prepared, put it into a digital [00:30:40.000] format with a searchable index, okay, [00:30:42.880] and have it done at 300 days. But then [00:30:46.080] here was the problem. It went over to [00:30:48.080] the House and the the chairman of the [00:30:50.960] House Intelligence Committee, uh, Mike [00:30:53.520] Turner, who happened to come from the [00:30:55.760] congressional or be in charge of the [00:30:57.360] congressional district where the Wright [00:30:59.039] Patterson Air Force Base is where a lot [00:31:01.360] of the reverse engineering was going on. [00:31:03.760] And so, you know, he’s he’s got selfies [00:31:06.720] taken of him, you know, with the the [00:31:09.120] leadership at Wright Patterson and with [00:31:11.360] the private aerospace corporations that [00:31:13.520] are doing it, you know, like like Ren uh [00:31:16.399] uh yeah, renaissance. Uh and uh and and [00:31:20.080] so the the bottom line is uh that the [00:31:23.039] house changed the language at the very [00:31:25.679] end saying you have to do all that. You [00:31:27.440] have to gather all identify it, gather [00:31:29.039] it all together, get it into the the the [00:31:30.799] the format and then deliver it to the [00:31:33.840] National Archives as soon as possible. [00:31:36.720] >> And this was and this was supposed to be [00:31:38.080] in like October 2024, right? [00:31:40.000] >> October of 2024. They had 300 days. But [00:31:42.559] he they said then you have to turn it [00:31:44.080] over as soon as possible. And when a [00:31:45.440] lawyer sees language like that, you [00:31:47.200] know, your hair catches on fire because [00:31:48.960] you say, “Wait a second. You know, as [00:31:50.559] soon as possible, you know, my mother’s [00:31:52.000] horse died. I had a hangail. you know, [00:31:54.320] uh, you know, I wasn’t feeling good that [00:31:55.679] day and I didn’t come to the office, you [00:31:57.120] know, that kind of actually. [00:31:59.440] And so that what happened is the the [00:32:01.519] people on the exe in the executive [00:32:03.600] branch didn’t do anything. You know, [00:32:06.159] they didn’t try to gather the stuff [00:32:07.519] together. They didn’t try to identify [00:32:08.880] it. They didn’t do anything. Okay. So [00:32:10.960] the so so so the bottom line is uh all [00:32:14.000] of that we were kind of churning water [00:32:16.159] there for for a while. And we knew I [00:32:18.960] knew because I was Lou’s attorney, [00:32:21.279] right? I knew that Lou was working with [00:32:23.679] Jay Stratton uh to to put together this [00:32:26.880] documentary film. Yes. [00:32:28.640] >> And they were going to be getting 34 of [00:32:30.399] the guys that uh that all knew about the [00:32:33.039] program to all come forward together. Uh [00:32:35.919] and they were going to do this and Dan [00:32:37.440] Herrera, you know, I Lou introduced me [00:32:40.080] to him and I got to know him. Uh and [00:32:42.240] they put they they put the thing [00:32:43.679] together and then they told what they [00:32:45.760] told in that documentary film. Okay. And [00:32:49.039] then because of that, people all around [00:32:51.200] the country were going, “Holy mackerel, [00:32:53.840] look at these guys. Look who they are [00:32:55.840] and look what they’re saying.” Including [00:32:58.399] >> another, you know, there’s a whole lot [00:33:00.320] of important stuff that was said, but [00:33:01.760] one one moment in there. Uh, excuse me, [00:33:04.720] Eric Davis. [00:33:05.760] >> Yes. [00:33:06.320] >> Eric Davis, who was a major engineer, [00:33:09.120] overseeing [00:33:10.159] >> really I just had dinner with him in a [00:33:11.760] small group a couple nights ago. Yeah. [00:33:13.840] The the reverse engineering of this, he [00:33:16.960] told the people directly that he had had [00:33:19.360] a private conversation with with [00:33:21.440] President George HW Bush. And George HW [00:33:24.559] Bush had confirmed to him. [00:33:26.559] >> Yes. that in uh April of 1964, [00:33:30.640] April 26th of 1964, [00:33:33.519] uh that three UFOs had approached the [00:33:37.039] tarmac at the Hollowan Air Force Base in [00:33:40.240] New Mexico uh and hovered over the [00:33:42.799] tarmac and the center one descended and [00:33:45.840] landed on the tarmac uh and a humanoid [00:33:49.760] nonhuman being [00:33:51.440] >> Yeah. uh you know almost six feet tall, [00:33:54.240] you know, big head, big eyes, you know, [00:33:57.039] long arms, the whole nine yards in [00:33:58.960] >> I thought he described him as almost [00:34:00.080] like a Nordic looking. [00:34:01.200] >> Well, it was it’s actually a tall white. [00:34:03.360] The tall whites are different than the [00:34:04.960] Nordics. Yes, we can touch on that, but [00:34:07.679] but that’s what clearly kind of tall [00:34:09.839] white, came out of the craft in some [00:34:12.960] kind of a tight fitting uniform. uh and [00:34:15.839] was met on the tarmac by two highranking [00:34:19.200] United States Air Force officials in [00:34:21.040] uniform and two uh private civilians or [00:34:24.960] government civilians actually who we [00:34:26.800] assume are CIA people. Yeah. Right. [00:34:29.359] >> And then and then I knew what happened [00:34:32.399] after that because uh because uh uh uh [00:34:35.679] Colonel Edgar Mitchell had told me about [00:34:37.440] this before. Yeah. Right. that they went [00:34:40.079] into a hanger right nearby on the tarmac [00:34:43.440] uh and the the the the four guys and the [00:34:46.720] ET guy uh and communicated [00:34:49.280] telepathically for some significant [00:34:51.919] amount of time and then they all came [00:34:53.919] out and the beam got back into his [00:34:55.679] craft. Uh it ascended back up. The other [00:34:57.920] two craft had been hovering over the [00:35:00.240] tarmac at the Hollowman Air Force Base [00:35:02.720] for that entire period of time and then [00:35:04.720] they went and shot off like that. Okay. [00:35:07.280] And now and Eric Davis says this on [00:35:09.760] November 21st of 2025 in the the uh age [00:35:14.960] of disclosure. Now that’s an [00:35:16.880] extraordinary milestone. Yes. [00:35:18.720] >> To be actually talking about a [00:35:21.280] face-to-face contact with a living [00:35:24.079] extraterrestrial being uh in high [00:35:26.960] ranking officials of the United States [00:35:28.640] Air Force and the CIA having direct [00:35:32.560] face-to-face communication with him. [00:35:34.800] That’s a huge milestone. it is over and [00:35:38.240] above the other general effect of the [00:35:40.400] entire the entire uh documentary itself [00:35:43.599] that particular piece of information [00:35:45.680] because I knew from 50 years in the [00:35:48.079] field that’s new. Yeah. Know that’s a [00:35:50.560] new thing that just happened there. [00:35:52.240] Yeah. And now now we’ve got President [00:35:54.400] Trump well what happened as you know [00:35:56.480] there was this event that took place on [00:35:58.480] the 14th of February uh with President [00:36:01.440] former President Obama [00:36:03.040] >> right? He’s in an interview. being [00:36:04.880] interviewed and he was asked, “Well, [00:36:06.960] what was the very first thing you did [00:36:09.280] once you were inaugurated? What was the [00:36:11.520] first thing you wanted to find out [00:36:12.720] about?” He said, “I wanted to find out [00:36:14.160] about the aliens.” Are aliens real? [00:36:17.119] >> Uh, they’re real, but I haven’t seen [00:36:19.599] them. And and and uh they’re not being [00:36:21.520] kept in uh what is it? [00:36:23.440] >> Area 51. [00:36:24.079] >> Area 51. there there’s no underground uh [00:36:27.200] facility unless there’s this enormous [00:36:30.880] conspiracy and they they hid it from the [00:36:33.599] president of the United States. [00:36:35.119] >> What was the first question you wanted [00:36:37.280] answered when you became president? [00:36:39.760] >> Um where are the aliens? [00:36:41.920] >> Where are [laughter] the aliens? Um [00:36:44.560] >> he said it just like that and they said [00:36:46.720] do you think the aliens are real? He’s [00:36:48.720] oh yes the aliens are real and he says [00:36:51.040] it. Okay. So bango because New York [00:36:53.680] Times covers it. Washington Post covers [00:36:55.440] it and all the people start talking [00:36:57.119] about it. Yeah. [00:36:57.839] >> And on the 19th, Trump says, “Well, [00:37:00.640] because of the a widespread popular [00:37:03.200] interest in this particular subject, [00:37:05.200] what I’m going to do some undesated time [00:37:07.760] in the future, I am going to be [00:37:09.599] contacting the Secretary of Defense uh [00:37:11.839] and the heads of the other executive [00:37:13.359] branch agencies, and I’m going to direct [00:37:15.680] them to begin the process of identifying [00:37:19.839] the documents uh that all relate to UFOs [00:37:24.560] and extraterrestrial life and [00:37:26.560] intelligence. [00:37:27.839] uh for a potential uh release. Yes. [00:37:30.720] Okay. Now, that’s not a that’s not a [00:37:32.880] ordering of them to release. And he [00:37:34.480] hasn’t even issued the executive order. [00:37:36.400] Uh and when when when Pete Hegth heard [00:37:39.920] about it as the Secretary of Defense, he [00:37:41.839] said, “Well, I’ve never heard about [00:37:42.960] this.” He said, “Up until even hearing [00:37:44.720] him say that publicly, this issue wasn’t [00:37:47.119] even on my bingo card.” That was what he [00:37:49.760] said, which means they hadn’t done [00:37:51.520] squat. Of course, [00:37:52.720] >> you know, in the face of a direct order [00:37:54.800] from the Congress of the United States, [00:37:56.880] both House and Senate, ordering them to [00:37:59.359] go through this whole process of [00:38:00.800] identifying all the documents, codifying [00:38:02.960] them, putting them into this kind of [00:38:04.720] digital format, and preparing to turn it [00:38:06.880] over to the National Archives, but they [00:38:08.640] hadn’t done anything, and he admitted it [00:38:10.160] publicly. Okay? So that that everybody’s [00:38:12.800] all excited about, oh, the president of [00:38:14.480] the United States is getting ready to [00:38:16.160] order, you know. I I wouldn’t hold my [00:38:18.400] breath on that, you know. Uh but the [00:38:20.640] bottom line is that he was just [00:38:22.320] responding to the building citizen [00:38:24.640] pressure. So what we’ve done, uh myself [00:38:27.599] as the attorney for Luisando that we put [00:38:29.920] together a 501c3 [00:38:32.240] organization called the new paradigm [00:38:34.560] institute. Yeah. Uh and we’ve organized [00:38:36.800] this thing called Citizens for [00:38:38.079] Disclosure. and we’ve organized people [00:38:40.160] in 35 states now. Uh we have we have [00:38:43.680] they’re not chapters officially, but [00:38:45.280] they’re groups. Okay? And we’re going to [00:38:47.280] get it done in all 50 states probably by [00:38:49.839] around Easter. Okay? And then we’re [00:38:51.680] going into all 435 of the congressional [00:38:54.160] districts. And what we’re demanding, [00:38:56.079] we’re demanding that the people insist [00:38:59.200] that all the candidates for all in both [00:39:02.240] political parties, those who are [00:39:03.839] incumbents and those who are people that [00:39:05.920] are trying to get the seat, all of them [00:39:08.720] be required to sign a pledge card saying [00:39:12.000] that if they’re elected, they will in [00:39:14.400] fact give full support to having a bill [00:39:17.280] passed uh basically to have Congress [00:39:19.920] itself take over the process and not [00:39:23.119] wait for the president to do But the [00:39:25.280] very first step that they would take is [00:39:26.880] they would pass a statute which Anna [00:39:28.800] Paulina Luna is drafting right now [00:39:32.480] >> isn’t isn’t a tough one. Uh but it’s a [00:39:35.200] it’s a direct order to the president [00:39:38.720] >> to issue the executive order [snorts] [00:39:41.119] >> that he’s promised he was going to do [00:39:42.880] sometime in the future. It’s a direct [00:39:45.359] command from the United States Congress [00:39:46.880] to the president of the United States to [00:39:48.640] perform the duty, an administrative [00:39:50.560] duty. And if he doesn’t do it, they can [00:39:52.800] bring a legal cause of action uh in [00:39:54.960] federal court seeking a declaratory [00:39:57.040] judgment in in a specific performance uh [00:40:00.160] mandate that he’s to perform his [00:40:02.079] administrative duty that he has no [00:40:03.520] discretion in this. Okay. So that’s [00:40:05.839] >> doesn’t that feel like a fox guarding [00:40:07.520] the hen house kind of thing to you with [00:40:09.119] with all these Republicans in Congress [00:40:11.200] being the the ones who are supposed to [00:40:12.960] be holding the president accountable? [00:40:14.480] >> Well, it’s no there’s no doubt about [00:40:16.079] that. the the challenge is that our [00:40:18.160] democratic system has got that structure [00:40:20.720] in place, right? And so as an attorney, [00:40:22.640] what you have to do is you have to know [00:40:24.079] what the actual structure is that you’ve [00:40:26.079] got and you got to do everything you can [00:40:27.920] to exhaust your administrative remedies. [00:40:30.640] That’s what we’re engaged. That’s what [00:40:31.839] the new paradigm institute is doing [00:40:33.280] right now and the citizens movement is [00:40:35.200] doing in coordination with other groups. [00:40:37.359] You know, that we we’ve got we’ve got [00:40:38.960] the Saul Foundation which is, you know, [00:40:41.119] with Gary Nolan and stuff over at [00:40:42.960] Stanford. We’ve got the uh UAP uh uh [00:40:46.400] disclosure fund. We’ve got uh the uh uh [00:40:50.480] several of the other uh MUON. [00:40:52.640] >> Yeah. [00:40:53.040] >> MUON has the Mutual UFO Network has been [00:40:56.079] around since you know dirt, [00:40:58.079] >> you know, and and they’ve been working [00:40:59.680] on this thing for decades. Okay. So, [00:41:02.173] [clears throat] all of us are working [00:41:03.040] together [00:41:04.079] >> to put pressure on uh and the New [00:41:06.400] Paradigm Institute because it’s [00:41:08.160] basically run by lawyers. Yeah. uh that [00:41:10.640] knows enough to get it down onto the [00:41:12.480] grassroots level uh and get the people [00:41:14.640] trained up uh so we can give them all [00:41:16.640] the information. We put together the [00:41:18.240] technology for being able to respond to [00:41:21.040] them, be able to deliver materials to [00:41:23.040] them uh and help instruct them on how [00:41:25.359] how to do all of this. And that’s what [00:41:27.119] we’re doing right now. And so this is [00:41:29.359] part of the pressure that was referred [00:41:31.760] to by Trump when he said in light of the [00:41:34.480] widespread public interest in this [00:41:36.240] subject, you know, well, he doesn’t give [00:41:38.000] a about widespread public interest. [00:41:40.160] What they what they’re concerned about [00:41:41.520] is major pressure, you know, threatening [00:41:43.359] to throw people out of office if they [00:41:45.359] don’t do it because that’s their job. [00:41:47.280] >> And also, it seems like he just didn’t [00:41:48.880] want Obama to steal his thunder in a way [00:41:51.359] from that interview. He seemed like, oh [00:41:52.720] well, you’re going to say that? Well, [00:41:53.760] I’m going to come out and I’ll be the [00:41:55.599] one to do more. And you know that’s one [00:41:57.680] of the things that even though of course [00:41:59.119] I think anybody again with what did you [00:42:01.280] say an IQ above room temperature [00:42:03.119] >> political IQ or even an IQ IQ period I [00:42:06.960] >> I think everybody would be would [00:42:09.839] question Trump’s motivations right but [00:42:11.359] the but the one thing I would not [00:42:13.280] question is that if he has an [00:42:14.960] opportunity to to elevate his own legacy [00:42:17.359] and elevate his own ego through [00:42:20.079] disclosure that also would be a major [00:42:22.640] consideration toward maybe him really [00:42:25.119] meaning it at least as far it could [00:42:26.800] bolster his own legacy [00:42:28.720] >> except for what might happen to him. [00:42:30.480] >> Very true. And and do you think that’s a [00:42:33.040] good that’s a good point is that if you [00:42:36.000] believe what’s put forth in the [00:42:38.079] narrative um you know portrayed in Age [00:42:40.880] of Disclosure, one of the things seems [00:42:43.040] to be that this shadowy group, you know, [00:42:45.040] that they call the legacy program. [00:42:47.040] >> Yeah. [00:42:47.599] >> Even though all of us from the outside [00:42:49.200] looking in that are interested in this [00:42:50.560] topic, we’re like, “What the hell is [00:42:52.000] this? some nebulous consortium of [00:42:55.359] military-industrial complex entities and [00:42:58.800] uh intelligence agencies, but if they’re [00:43:02.240] so strong, where’s this big counter [00:43:04.319] push? Where’s this big counter uh [00:43:06.560] narrative? Because it seems like the [00:43:07.839] disclosure narrative really is taking [00:43:09.520] over. So, you knowing what you know, how [00:43:13.440] real and how organized do you think this [00:43:15.440] legacy program is? And who do you think [00:43:17.920] they really are? And what is their main [00:43:19.680] tactic for for fighting this? [00:43:21.839] >> It’s a it’s actually a a uh a like four [00:43:25.839] tiered operation going on. Okay. [00:43:28.480] >> You you have you have the uh the progeny [00:43:32.560] of the original Majestic Group, the [00:43:35.520] whatever they call it, but it’s MJ12 [00:43:37.599] because there’s tons of documents that [00:43:39.440] have been Do you think that’s real? [00:43:40.720] >> Oh, yeah. Yeah. [00:43:41.440] >> Yeah. [00:43:42.319] >> Uh it’s not that they haven’t been [00:43:44.000] salted with some some bogus documents [00:43:47.680] that have been put in there as a counter [00:43:49.760] intelligence myth to try to discredit [00:43:52.079] the documents as a whole. But it’s very [00:43:54.240] clear that that almost immediately after [00:43:56.720] the July uh 1947 crash of the Roswell [00:44:01.760] UFO that Truman uh convened a group of [00:44:06.000] private and and official people. Some of [00:44:08.640] them uh they put together these 12 [00:44:10.560] people. Uh we’ve got the names of them, [00:44:13.680] >> you know. I’ I’ve got them here. I carry [00:44:16.880] them around with me. Okay. Yeah. Uh and [00:44:19.200] and they they he appointed them to take [00:44:22.079] charge of this whole issue uh and to [00:44:24.560] keep it secret uh and to try to figure [00:44:26.800] out, you know, what advantage we could [00:44:29.040] gain as a nation state uh by having [00:44:32.319] access to this debris and technology, [00:44:35.040] right? uh in the that what the the [00:44:37.520] program was is that they were to keep it [00:44:39.440] secret but they were given you know un [00:44:42.319] exeicio authority to give directives to [00:44:45.920] actual military people and intelligence [00:44:48.640] people and the central intelligence [00:44:50.560] agency became a major part of this they [00:44:52.800] have a thing called the operations [00:44:54.319] directorate uh inside the central [00:44:56.240] intelligence agency that’s the action [00:44:58.000] arm kinetic projects they call them uh [00:45:01.520] and uh and they became part of this uh [00:45:04.800] in fact the that uh uh the first uh [00:45:08.640] military commander of the Central [00:45:10.480] Intelligence Agency uh was a member of [00:45:13.200] this. Okay. Uh and and that they their [00:45:17.040] job was to keep it secret to try to [00:45:19.280] figure out how to give directives to [00:45:21.359] different parts of the United States [00:45:23.440] government executive branch structures [00:45:25.680] to to take advantage of this technology. [00:45:28.800] Uh, and not only that, but to go get [00:45:31.440] more of them, to go get some more of the [00:45:34.560] craft that were functional, not a crash [00:45:36.560] debris, you know, but one that’s whole [00:45:38.720] and is intact and and is operational. Uh [00:45:42.640] and so that’s what they were overseeing [00:45:44.319] but they were utilizing uh the author [00:45:47.119] the authority that the president had [00:45:48.880] given them off the record completely [00:45:50.880] classified uh to direct activities on [00:45:53.839] the part of the central intelligence [00:45:55.280] agency and the military to to go recover [00:46:00.079] craft to bring down craft to develop [00:46:03.040] some sort of a weapon system by means of [00:46:05.119] which they could disable the craft and [00:46:06.800] and force them to land and seize them [00:46:09.359] which is what they were doing. and that [00:46:11.599] as they grew older and older, but from [00:46:14.160] 1947 on, you know, you figured these [00:46:17.119] guys are, you know, 55, 60 year old [00:46:20.560] guys, most of them. Uh, and so that, you [00:46:23.200] know, in another 20 years from 1947 to, [00:46:26.880] you know, to 1967, [00:46:29.359] >> you know, they were getting losing their [00:46:32.480] steam and energy. And so the the [00:46:34.880] protocol was that each of those 12 [00:46:37.040] people had to personally handpick their [00:46:40.400] own successor. [00:46:41.680] >> Okay? [00:46:42.800] >> So that the president wasn’t involved in [00:46:44.720] anymore that they had become a kind of [00:46:46.560] semiautonomous [00:46:48.160] operation that was running. And so they [00:46:50.400] would handpick their successor. And so [00:46:52.880] those successors coming on around 1967 [00:46:55.920] or so, right? Uh that they end up now [00:47:00.560] this is now 2025, [00:47:02.720] >> right? So you’ve got guys like Bobby [00:47:04.880] Rayinman who’s one of them who’s 94 [00:47:07.520] years old. [00:47:08.240] >> Yeah. Right. And fill people in on who [00:47:09.760] he is. [00:47:10.319] >> Bobby Rayinman was the former director [00:47:12.079] of the Defense Intelligence Agency. Also [00:47:14.319] served as the head of the Central [00:47:15.440] Intelligence Agency for a period of [00:47:17.040] time. Uh and that that when he quote [00:47:19.520] retired, you know, people all said, [00:47:21.599] “Well, I wonder what old Bobby Ray is [00:47:23.440] doing.” Well, what he’s doing is he’s on [00:47:25.599] MJ12, right? Wow. And so there’s this [00:47:28.319] whole second generation of the MJ12 [00:47:31.440] people who are now in their 90s. [00:47:33.920] >> So So do you think this is part of this [00:47:35.520] the sort of unseen motivation behind [00:47:37.920] disclosure too is that a lot of those [00:47:39.520] people are aging out. So people kind of [00:47:41.839] know there’s this opportunity with this [00:47:43.760] generation literally dying off right [00:47:46.079] now. There’s there’s a there’s a [00:47:48.079] possibility to to shake up this system [00:47:50.800] and shake up this invisible hierarchy. [00:47:52.720] >> Yeah. They they’ve be because because [00:47:54.960] some of them have been holding on. [00:47:56.640] they’re they’re doing making the same [00:47:58.240] mistake that Ruth Bader Ginsburgg made [00:48:00.400] at the Supreme Court justice. You know, [00:48:02.319] she was getting 90 years old. Uh but she [00:48:04.800] was feeling chipper and sharp and so she [00:48:07.119] wouldn’t stand down so Obama could [00:48:09.599] appoint somebody to replace her, you [00:48:11.920] know, that would be more progressive and [00:48:13.680] more supportive of constitutional [00:48:15.200] rights, etc. Um and she just hung on and [00:48:17.920] then died with her boots on [00:48:19.839] >> or with a robe on in that case, you [00:48:21.760] know, and and so so Trump gets to [00:48:24.319] replace her, right? uh you know and so [00:48:27.040] the so the the bottom line is they’re [00:48:28.880] making that same mistake inside the MJ12 [00:48:31.599] group. Okay. So what’s happened now is [00:48:34.079] there has arisen uh an insurgency group [00:48:37.920] which isn’t I’m not talking about Lou [00:48:39.520] Alzando and Chris Melon in and JT I’m [00:48:42.720] talking about another group of people uh [00:48:45.200] that have uh occupied extremely high [00:48:48.319] positions uh in the defense department [00:48:51.280] uh inside the central intelligence [00:48:52.960] agency uh inside some of the private [00:48:55.119] aerospace corporations uh and uh inside [00:48:58.480] the the military services you know And [00:49:02.079] I’ve got their names too here. Wow. [00:49:04.079] Right here. [00:49:04.800] >> Are those names Are those names private [00:49:06.480] or can those names [00:49:07.440] >> They’re not public at all. They’re not [00:49:09.040] public at all, but there’s 24 of them. [00:49:10.640] >> Wow. [00:49:11.040] >> Okay. And I happen to know who they are. [00:49:13.359] Okay. And what they’ve done is they’ve [00:49:15.119] formed an association [00:49:17.200] uh and that they’re working to try to [00:49:20.800] drag the program back into the [00:49:23.839] government. [00:49:24.640] >> And and what’s their motivation? their [00:49:26.960] their motivation is to uh tap off some [00:49:30.480] of this pressure, you know, to figure [00:49:32.160] out how much information they can make [00:49:34.079] public and kind of ellay uh the demand [00:49:37.359] on the part of the citizenry to get all [00:49:39.920] the information and to get it right [00:49:41.599] away, right? Because the the regular [00:49:44.319] citizens are just fed up with this, [00:49:46.160] right? And that they’ve lost their [00:49:47.839] confidence in the governing structures [00:49:49.920] and so that they aren’t willing to just [00:49:51.520] sit back and let them handle the program [00:49:53.520] anymore. And so what’s happening is [00:49:55.200] they’re saying, “Look, we’ve got to do [00:49:56.480] something here. We’ve got to release [00:49:58.160] some kind of information here.” And so [00:50:00.640] what they have done is they’ve started [00:50:02.720] giving the green light. [00:50:05.040] This group, not the MJ12 group, but this [00:50:08.559] group, the association, let’s call them. [00:50:10.800] Okay? I I know what their real name is. [00:50:13.920] But but that they they are [00:50:16.000] >> That has to be private, too. That has to [00:50:17.440] be secret. No, I that I’m I’m having to [00:50:20.319] have these discussions with Eric Brosen [00:50:22.240] and the people to decide what they’re [00:50:23.680] going to do about this because what what [00:50:25.440] I’m trying to do is [00:50:26.240] >> so he so he must be part of that. [00:50:28.079] >> He’s got we we need to have Congress be [00:50:30.079] made part of this. [00:50:31.040] >> Okay. So, they’re not currently part of [00:50:32.480] it. [00:50:32.960] >> No. Okay. No, that uh that they they [00:50:35.839] still think they’re dealing with some [00:50:37.040] amorphous group of people that they [00:50:38.960] don’t can’t get the names of. Right. [00:50:41.280] uh and and Lou is telling them and and [00:50:43.920] Jake and the Jay and the other people we [00:50:46.559] can’t tell you who they are [00:50:48.079] >> you know uh who you know for example [00:50:50.319] Eric Burlesen asked the question on uh [00:50:52.640] in November of of 2023 [00:50:56.240] >> November 13th when when Lou Alzando [00:50:58.720] appeared before the House Oversight [00:51:00.319] Committee and [clears throat] Eric [00:51:02.160] Berles pursuant to my proddding said [00:51:06.640] okay uh Mr. Alzando said, “You and I [00:51:09.920] have security clearances that if we both [00:51:12.079] got into a skiff.” Yeah. [00:51:14.000] >> Uh would you be able to provide to me as [00:51:17.200] a skeptic definitive proof a that we are [00:51:20.400] in possession of at least one or more uh [00:51:23.280] nonhuman extraterrestrial spacecraft and [00:51:26.160] the bodies of beings from the craft who [00:51:29.520] have been established by DNA testing [00:51:31.839] stuff to be non-human and could you [00:51:35.040] provide that for me? And Lou loose said [00:51:38.400] no. Uh it’s not that I don’t know it but [00:51:42.079] I can’t tell you because I’m not [00:51:44.160] authorized to tell you that [00:51:46.079] >> which by implicit two things. One is he [00:51:49.760] had been authorized to tell them the [00:51:51.920] other stuff [00:51:52.720] >> right [00:51:53.119] >> that he was telling them right. Uh but [00:51:55.359] secondly he had been told not to tell [00:51:57.359] them anything more. And the question is [00:51:59.920] by whom? [00:52:00.800] >> Yeah. [00:52:01.200] >> Right. And when they said when they were [00:52:03.200] asked that you know uh AOC asked the [00:52:06.319] question number of other people said who [00:52:08.800] are these people we can’t tell you who [00:52:10.800] they are. [00:52:11.200] >> Yeah you know [00:52:12.160] >> because a skeptic could say okay if [00:52:14.400] we’re never going to learn who this [00:52:16.559] association is what [00:52:19.119] >> you are you are going to very very soon. [00:52:21.040] Okay. But but you know people within you [00:52:23.599] know and and a lot of these people who I [00:52:25.520] think um [00:52:27.359] >> there’s a certain there there’s a lot I [00:52:29.280] don’t want to like typ cast you know UFO [00:52:31.599] Twitter and people who are interested in [00:52:33.040] this topic but of course you have like [00:52:34.640] people of various depths right like [00:52:36.559] maybe maybe some of these people like [00:52:38.079] just saw Age of Disclosure and this is [00:52:39.760] all new for them and then you have more [00:52:41.200] old school people who have been watching [00:52:43.440] this for for decades. And I think those [00:52:45.920] kinds of people are going to be [00:52:48.079] knee-jerk skeptical of anybody coming [00:52:50.079] out of the military-industrial complex [00:52:51.839] to begin with [00:52:52.640] >> because they don’t know any better. [00:52:54.160] >> And then but but but I think you and I [00:52:56.160] both you’re you’re sort of like a [00:52:57.920] counterultural guy, right? I mean, you [00:52:59.520] fought against the government for so [00:53:01.680] much of your career, but but yet you do [00:53:03.760] seem to trust a lot of these [00:53:04.960] whistleblowers coming out. And though a [00:53:07.520] lot of the public or at least people um [00:53:10.000] who are interested in this in the UFO [00:53:11.920] disclosure discourse have become inc I [00:53:14.000] would say increasingly um wary of a lot [00:53:17.440] of these mainstream whistleblowers and [00:53:19.599] and seem to trust their credibility less [00:53:22.160] and less. But it seems like what you [00:53:24.079] know leads you to still largely trust [00:53:26.960] what they’re doing and trust that they [00:53:28.640] have [00:53:29.599] >> at least their heart going toward the [00:53:31.760] right direction. What it is is I I have [00:53:33.200] I think a more sophisticated and tutored [00:53:35.680] understanding of what the dynamic really [00:53:37.680] is. [00:53:38.400] >> Uh uh and so that that this this group [00:53:42.640] Lou everybody recognizes Lou and Chris [00:53:45.599] Melon and and Jay Stratton and and uh [00:53:48.720] and Eric, you know, and Hal Putoff and [00:53:51.520] uh etc. that they pe people can tell us [00:53:56.079] something’s not quite right there [00:53:57.702] [laughter] [00:53:58.240] that they aren’t coming clean, you know. [00:54:00.880] uh uh but the but the fact of the matter [00:54:03.040] is they know that they’re releasing some [00:54:04.800] information and as a matter of law the [00:54:07.920] federal rules of civil procedure when [00:54:09.839] someone makes a public declaration which [00:54:11.920] is contrary to their own interests [00:54:14.079] >> yes [00:54:14.880] >> that has a higher level of credibility [00:54:17.040] so when you have these guys coming [00:54:18.480] forward saying here’s the program I was [00:54:20.480] involved in the program UFOs are real [00:54:22.720] you know that’s contrary to what their [00:54:24.880] previous interests have been in keeping [00:54:26.319] it secret so that therefore you can [00:54:28.319] start to suggest that that has some high [00:54:30.000] level of credibility. Now, I was in a [00:54:32.079] position as Lou’s attorney to get to [00:54:34.000] meet everybody uh and to be able to in a [00:54:36.559] sense vet them, talk to them, and and [00:54:38.880] discuss the stuff with them and and and [00:54:41.119] probe the barriers where they were uh [00:54:44.480] and then realized that they were getting [00:54:46.240] authorization from somewhere, which 95% [00:54:48.880] of the people can’t quite tell what’s [00:54:51.040] going on there, right? But I could tell [00:54:52.800] that there was somebody giving them the [00:54:54.319] authority to do this. And the question [00:54:55.920] is, who was it? Uh and it turns out that [00:54:58.319] it’s in my opinion it’s not really the [00:55:00.800] MJ12 people. It’s this other group. It’s [00:55:04.559] this association that is trying to sort [00:55:07.200] of drag the program back into the [00:55:09.920] official uh constitutional structures in [00:55:13.040] military and intelligence structures [00:55:15.280] rather than have this kind of rump [00:55:16.880] group. [00:55:17.520] >> Yeah. [00:55:17.920] >> That was appointed originally by [00:55:19.680] President Truman kind of in the the [00:55:21.920] immediate aftermath of the shocking [00:55:24.400] discovery of this craft. Right. uh and [00:55:26.960] then the handpicked uh successors who [00:55:30.559] are not authorized by Congress aren’t [00:55:33.040] aren’t sanctioned by Congress. So what [00:55:35.040] they’re what the the association is [00:55:37.200] trying to do is that because they’ve all [00:55:40.000] come through the government and they’ve [00:55:42.000] come but they’ve come out of these [00:55:43.280] private aerospace corporations as well. [00:55:45.359] I mean you get people like the chief of [00:55:47.200] intelligence for the MITER corporation. [00:55:49.359] >> Yeah. is one of them, [00:55:50.960] >> you know, but you also have the former [00:55:52.960] director of the national uh geospatial [00:55:56.319] intelligence agency. [00:55:58.240] >> Okay. You also have the the former [00:56:00.400] commander of the United States Air Force [00:56:02.400] Department of Material, [00:56:04.559] you know, but they’re retired. [00:56:06.079] >> Yeah. [00:56:06.400] >> So, they’re retired. Uh all of them, [00:56:08.880] every single one of them are all retired [00:56:11.040] now. uh but but they because they’ve got [00:56:13.280] the the rolodex uh and they’ve got all [00:56:16.160] the credibility they’ve got all the [00:56:17.839] knowledge about this what they’ve done [00:56:19.599] is they’re they’ve assembled themselves [00:56:22.240] into this association so that that it’s [00:56:24.960] got kind of a a jeritical structure to [00:56:28.000] it uh in chain of authority in it. [00:56:30.079] >> So so those people you just named are [00:56:31.839] part of the association. [00:56:33.119] >> Yes. [00:56:33.520] >> Okay. Wow. Wow. [00:56:34.720] >> Is that the first time you said that? [00:56:36.160] >> Yes. [00:56:36.559] >> Oh wow. Okay. Well damn. This is [00:56:38.559] breaking news. You know, [00:56:39.599] >> speaking of breaking news, you know, you [00:56:40.880] just me I want to go back to this, but [00:56:43.040] you also just mentioned um who in the [00:56:46.000] Air Force was it [00:56:47.359] >> the director of Air Force material. [00:56:50.079] >> So, speaking of high ranking Air Force [00:56:53.599] people, [00:56:54.319] >> as you as I’m sure you’re well aware, [00:56:56.400] Major General McCasslin also just kind [00:56:58.640] of fell off the face of the earth. [00:57:00.079] >> Yeah. Yeah, he has. [00:57:01.599] >> I’m sure that’s not the first time his [00:57:03.119] name has come across your [00:57:05.040] >> your knowledge. No. Second of all, what [00:57:07.920] did you think when you heard about that? [00:57:09.280] >> Well, the first thing is I was [00:57:10.400] absolutely astonished that he didn’t [00:57:11.839] have security, [00:57:12.720] >> right? [00:57:13.280] >> I mean, what are we talking about here? [00:57:14.880] You know, we we we got a guy who was the [00:57:16.960] commander basically of all of the waved, [00:57:20.640] uh, unagnowledged special access [00:57:22.720] programs, uh, weapons development [00:57:24.640] programs in the United States Pentagon. [00:57:26.720] uh and the guy who was in charge at uh [00:57:29.280] of the laboratory, the Air Force [00:57:31.040] laboratory at Wright Patterson Air Force [00:57:32.960] Base, you know, uh and so he’s been in [00:57:35.520] charge of all this stuff that he’s been [00:57:37.119] overseeing the reverse engineering [00:57:38.880] program uh and the development of [00:57:40.799] weapons systems in the United States Air [00:57:42.559] Force. This guy is an absolute gold mine [00:57:46.079] of information. It’s just I was just [00:57:48.799] thunderruck by the fact that he didn’t [00:57:50.799] have security even though he’s retire. [00:57:52.799] He’s only 68 years old, right? You know, [00:57:54.960] but in in the week before he [00:57:57.119] disappeared, he just got through doing a [00:57:59.119] 60-mile bicycle marathon. Really? You [00:58:02.079] know, he’s got no symptoms at all of of [00:58:04.720] this of uh of dementia. Uh he’s healthy [00:58:07.680] as a horse, you know, and all of a [00:58:09.680] sudden he just no disappears without his [00:58:12.160] wallet, without his wristwatch, without [00:58:13.920] any credit cards, without any note left [00:58:16.160] or anything. Wow. [00:58:17.280] >> And he’s gone, [00:58:18.720] >> you know? I mean, it’s like bingo. Uh [00:58:21.440] and so you say to yourself, you know, [00:58:23.200] what are the range of possibilities [00:58:25.119] there? Now, that’s that’s part of what [00:58:27.040] how I run investigations. [00:58:29.599] I was extremely privileged. I got to to [00:58:32.160] have not only constitutional law from [00:58:34.240] Lawrence Tribe uh at Harvard University [00:58:37.040] but people don’t understand he’s a he is [00:58:39.359] a just a little bit Lawrence Tribe [00:58:42.079] Lawrence Tribe was a Suma cumla [00:58:44.559] mathematics graduate really from Harvard [00:58:46.960] College right and then went and got his [00:58:49.520] PhD at Harvard in mathematics suma cumla [00:58:53.440] >> wow [00:58:53.760] >> right at the age of 26 years old he was [00:58:57.599] the director of the United States Bureau [00:58:59.520] of Statistics [00:59:00.480] >> Wow. Wow. [00:59:02.160] >> So multi-disiplinary super genius. [00:59:04.000] >> Totally. And then he got bored by that [00:59:05.760] after a couple years and said he’s going [00:59:07.359] to go to Harvard Law School. Uh and he [00:59:09.520] goes to Harvard Law School, becomes the [00:59:11.280] captain of the varsity debating team for [00:59:14.480] Harvard, which is like like a football [00:59:17.119] team, you know, discipline and in [00:59:19.520] schedule and stuff, and still ends up [00:59:21.520] number two in his class at Harvard Law [00:59:23.200] School. Okay. And so he goes and and and [00:59:26.319] clerks for Justice Trainer at the [00:59:27.839] California State Supreme Court, writing [00:59:29.839] some extraordinary opinions for Justice [00:59:32.559] Trainer, then comes back to serve as law [00:59:34.720] clerk at the United States Supreme [00:59:36.160] Court. Uh and he becomes the he becomes [00:59:38.960] the uh the uh uh uh law clerk there for [00:59:45.280] Justice Hugo Black. [00:59:47.040] >> I mean, that rings bells in the legal [00:59:49.200] field. That’s holy you you go [00:59:51.359] black and then is taken to be a for a [00:59:54.960] second term as a law clerk for Justice [00:59:57.520] Harland. I mean, these are two of the [00:59:59.760] the giants of of the Supreme Court [01:00:02.319] history, right? And he’s, as far as [01:00:04.720] anybody knows, the only person who’s [01:00:06.559] ever been clerking for two different [01:00:08.640] justices sequentially, right? And then [01:00:11.119] comes to Harvard Law School. [snorts] [01:00:13.200] >> I happen to been in the very first class [01:00:14.640] he ever taught. [01:00:15.599] >> Yeah. [01:00:15.920] >> Which was a class on evidence. [01:00:17.680] >> Okay. uh of teaching people how to [01:00:20.079] evaluate evidence to and he started [01:00:22.880] going into base theorem and and [01:00:24.960] probability projections and decision [01:00:26.720] tree analysis and the whole nine yards. [01:00:28.559] And so I I’m the one that stood up in [01:00:30.400] the class in his first class after about [01:00:32.079] the I don’t know fourth or fifth session [01:00:33.760] and I said, “Excuse me.” I said, [01:00:35.359] “Professor Tribe, I said, “Look at uh [01:00:37.280] all of us here are pretty smart folks. [01:00:39.920] You know, that’s how we got here to [01:00:41.200] Harvard Law School.” He says, “And and I [01:00:43.440] think I’m a comparatively smart person. [01:00:45.359] I don’t understand a word that [01:00:46.960] you’re [laughter] saying, you know, you [01:00:48.400] got to calm down here. You got to get [01:00:49.920] down, get your feet on the ground, you [01:00:51.920] know. And so I established this kind of [01:00:53.599] interesting relationship with Larry [01:00:55.200] Tribe right on early on. [01:00:56.960] >> And I became the co-founder with Mark [01:00:58.960] Green of the Harvard Civil Rights Law [01:01:00.400] Review, [01:01:01.119] >> you know, with with Larry Tribe as our [01:01:02.880] adviser. So we put together the Harvard [01:01:04.880] Civil Rights Law Review. We’re the ones [01:01:06.400] that initiated the case that established [01:01:08.400] the right of journalists to protect our [01:01:09.839] confidential news sources. Went all the [01:01:11.920] way to the United States Supreme Court. [01:01:13.839] Okay. And uh then because I had done [01:01:16.240] that case, I was the one that actually [01:01:18.079] had drafted that case. You know, I ended [01:01:20.000] up getting recruited by the number one [01:01:22.799] corporate litigation law firm on Wall [01:01:24.640] Street who represents NBC News. Right. [01:01:27.920] That’s why I was the guy that got the [01:01:29.440] call from Jim Goodell at the New York [01:01:31.520] Times when they got the Pentagon Papers. [01:01:33.920] >> Okay. [01:01:34.400] >> Okay. So that I was one of the very few [01:01:36.480] people that ever got to read all 47 [01:01:38.319] volumes of the Pentagon papers because [01:01:40.720] we were in the process of trying to [01:01:42.079] figure out how to what was going to get [01:01:43.520] published. Yeah. You know, and where the [01:01:45.359] lines were going to be. I was the one [01:01:47.040] that got the call from Whitney North [01:01:48.559] Seymour, the United States attorney for [01:01:49.920] the Southern District of New York, uh at [01:01:52.240] the behest of [01:01:54.319] Mitchell, the attorney general of the [01:01:56.079] Nixon administration, calling me uh [01:01:58.720] asking us to please voluntarily stop [01:02:00.799] publishing these these these documents. [01:02:03.839] And he said, you know, so I’m calling [01:02:05.040] you. He said, Mr. Sheen. He said, he [01:02:07.359] called me. He said, oh, Mr. Sheen says, [01:02:08.960] this is Whitney North Seymour. And I [01:02:10.640] said, Woody Norse Seymour. Whitney North [01:02:12.799] Seymour. Am I supposed to know who you [01:02:14.079] are? [laughter] He said, I’m the United [01:02:16.319] States attorney for the Southern [01:02:17.520] District of New York. Oh, right, right, [01:02:19.200] right. That that Wood Whitney Norse [01:02:20.319] Seymour. And he was totally pissed right [01:02:22.079] from the very beginning. Right. I’m a [01:02:23.520] first year associate. Yeah. You know, [01:02:25.200] but I happened to have gotten into the [01:02:26.799] firm because of my having drafted the [01:02:28.480] bill and stuff and written the a lot of [01:02:30.559] the briefs for the the right of [01:02:32.880] journalists to protect our confidential [01:02:34.240] news sources. And I had written helped [01:02:36.160] write not only the principal briefs for [01:02:37.920] NBC, for Paul Papus, the journalist that [01:02:40.480] we represented, [01:02:41.760] >> but got to help write the amicus briefs [01:02:44.160] for NB for CBS and ABC and for the New [01:02:48.000] York Times and the Washington Post. so [01:02:50.640] that we were drafting amicus briefs, [01:02:52.400] friends of the court briefs so that we [01:02:54.079] could help pick off individual justices [01:02:56.400] so that we could get the coalition we [01:02:58.319] needed to win. Right? So that’s how I [01:03:00.640] happened to be have known Jim Goodell. [01:03:03.440] And so Goodell calls me on the phone and [01:03:05.839] says he says uh uh Danny said look this [01:03:09.680] is Jim Goodell. And I said hey what’s [01:03:11.520] up? He said something’s come up here. Uh [01:03:14.720] I’d like to get a chance to come on and [01:03:16.480] talk with you about this. And I said, [01:03:18.000] “Well, shouldn’t I get Floyd, Floyd [01:03:19.839] Abrams, you know, our the senior [01:03:22.160] associate uh on the First Amendment [01:03:24.079] stuff?” And he said, “Yeah, get get [01:03:25.280] Floyd to come in there.” And I said, [01:03:26.240] “I’ll get Jean Shyman, too, who’s my uh [01:03:30.559] the Cahill Gordon firm [clears throat] [01:03:32.799] on Wall Street.” Little inside [01:03:34.640] information. You know, they have half of [01:03:37.359] their partners are Jewish and half of [01:03:40.160] their partners are Irish Catholic. And [01:03:42.960] every single time there’s a new partner [01:03:44.640] made, two two of them are made equal. [01:03:47.440] >> Absolutely. It’s this extraordinarily [01:03:49.440] interesting reality. They they used to [01:03:51.440] laugh about say the the the Jewish law [01:03:55.280] the Jewish uh lawyers and partners all [01:03:57.599] come off the major law reviews of the [01:03:59.280] major top five or six law schools, [01:04:01.359] right? And the Irish uh partners, [01:04:03.680] they’ll break a bar stool on you to win [01:04:05.599] a fight. [laughter] [01:04:07.440] So, so we we were the we were the number [01:04:09.599] one corporate litigation law firm in the [01:04:11.599] in the world at the time and I got [01:04:13.680] recruited to go there because I had done [01:04:16.559] a case, right? And so so the bottom line [01:04:19.200] is I I got right from the very beginning [01:04:21.680] to get like an inside look at things [01:04:24.240] that are going on, right? and getting to [01:04:26.480] read the documents and say, “Holy [01:04:28.079] mackerel, you know, the our our United [01:04:30.480] States government is involved in massive [01:04:32.400] drug smuggling, heroin smuggling, and [01:04:34.720] our, you know, actually opium smuggling [01:04:36.720] out of the Golden Triangle, massive [01:04:38.319] political assassination teams, all this [01:04:40.400] kind of stuff going on. So, I got this [01:04:42.960] kind of a, you know, baptism by fire, [01:04:45.440] you know, right, coming out of Harvard [01:04:46.720] Law School.” And so, [01:04:48.640] >> reality check on what’s going on. [01:04:50.400] >> Yeah. Get a deep background on what’s [01:04:52.400] happening. and then got tapped got [01:04:54.880] recruited out of the firm by F. Lee [01:04:56.960] Bailey when the Watergate burglary took [01:04:59.039] place, you know. So he he reaches out to [01:05:01.359] me because he had wanted me to to come [01:05:03.520] to his firm right out of law school, but [01:05:05.599] uh they he wouldn’t let me do trials. So [01:05:07.839] I said, “No, I’m I’m going with the [01:05:09.440] Cahill firm because I’m going to do [01:05:10.960] trials, right?” And so, so Bailey ends [01:05:13.440] up calling me the when the Watergate [01:05:14.960] burglary took place because he got [01:05:16.720] contacted by James McCord who was the [01:05:19.839] CIA wiretapping specialist that was [01:05:21.680] caught inside the headquarters, right? [01:05:23.760] Uh, and so Lee called me and asked me to [01:05:26.160] come and join his firm. So I went over [01:05:28.240] to his firm to do the Watergate case and [01:05:30.480] got to [01:05:31.520] >> find out everything about what was going [01:05:33.039] on in Watergate, why they were there and [01:05:34.720] who who’ ordered them and all that all [01:05:36.559] the details. Uh but when I really found [01:05:39.280] out what was going on in the Watergate [01:05:41.359] burglary, uh I said, “Look, I don’t have [01:05:43.920] anything to do with this. You know, I I [01:05:46.000] I’m not going to do these kind of things [01:05:48.000] anymore.” And so I left Bailey’s firm uh [01:05:51.599] and went and talked to John RS, the head [01:05:54.240] of the department of philosophy at [01:05:55.599] Harvard. [01:05:56.240] >> Mhm. [01:05:56.720] >> And uh uh he I had this long [01:05:59.039] conversation and he asked me to come on [01:06:00.559] back to Harvard to do the PhD in [01:06:03.359] comparative social ethics. you know what [01:06:06.160] what motivates different people, [01:06:08.240] different ethical standards that people [01:06:09.680] have. Uh and that’s where I got [01:06:11.520] recruited at the Harvard Divinity [01:06:14.000] School. [01:06:14.400] >> Yes. [01:06:14.880] >> Uh to go to the Jesuit headquarters as [01:06:17.520] their general counsel uh and in the [01:06:19.920] social ministry office. And that’s [01:06:21.839] that’s how that’s where I was when I got [01:06:23.680] contacted uh right after President [01:06:25.680] Carter got elected. Uh, and the first [01:06:27.760] thing he did is he sent for the head of [01:06:29.760] the CIA to come down to Plains, Georgia [01:06:33.119] before before Carter had even come to [01:06:35.920] Washington. He he’d been the former [01:06:37.599] governor of Georgia. Wasn’t a Washington [01:06:39.440] person, but uh he sent for the head of [01:06:41.680] the CIA to come down. And on the 19th of [01:06:44.000] November, he was elected on the 4th of [01:06:45.680] November of 1976. On the 19th of [01:06:48.799] November, he has George H. W. Bush, who [01:06:52.799] was the head of the CIA at [01:06:53.886] [clears throat] the time, had been had [01:06:55.760] been selected by Gerald Ford to come in [01:06:57.920] to take over the CIA because they were [01:07:00.400] being investigated by the Church [01:07:01.839] Committee, [01:07:02.720] >> right? And so, [01:07:04.880] >> George HW Bush, [01:07:06.079] >> they brought a lot of crazy things [01:07:07.280] forward. [01:07:07.920] >> Yeah, that’s right. It goes goes down to [01:07:10.160] Georgia uh and and tells the president [01:07:12.960] he’s not going to tell him about the UFO [01:07:15.039] issue because [snorts] he doesn’t have [01:07:17.039] any need to know. Yes. So, President [01:07:19.760] President Carter rather than take on the [01:07:21.599] CIA smart, [01:07:23.839] >> you know, he goes to the chairman, [01:07:26.160] Democratic chairman of the House Science [01:07:28.000] and Technology Committee and has them [01:07:29.760] task the Congressional Research Service [01:07:32.079] to do a major study and investigation to [01:07:34.559] find out what kind of documentation [01:07:36.160] we’ve got anywhere in the government, [01:07:38.079] you know, about UFOs and [01:07:40.160] extraterrestrial intelligence. So, [01:07:42.480] that’s how I got contacted over at the [01:07:44.319] Jesuit headquarters by Dr. Marshia [01:07:46.400] Smith, who’s the head of the science and [01:07:48.000] technology division, okay, uh of the the [01:07:50.720] uh Congressional Research Service and [01:07:52.960] asked me to come to lunch and I have [01:07:54.559] lunch with her and she asked me if I’ll [01:07:56.720] become general counsel for the major [01:07:59.119] investigation mainly because she wanted [01:08:01.119] me to get at the uh uh Vatican archives. [01:08:04.480] >> Yes. Yes. This is this is setting the [01:08:06.319] stage for some of the things I really [01:08:07.760] wanted to talk to you about is like, you [01:08:09.680] know, um this interesting overlap [01:08:11.920] between the Vatican and the UFO [01:08:14.000] phenomenon and how they seem to have [01:08:15.520] this enduring interest throughout the [01:08:17.679] ages and what’s going on there. But I’m [01:08:19.920] also curious too, um [01:08:22.080] >> how did Carter get wind of [01:08:25.679] us having knowledge about UFOs and [01:08:28.400] programs if he couldn’t get briefed on [01:08:30.480] it [01:08:30.799] >> because he’s seen one? Oh. Oh. President [01:08:33.520] Carter when he was governor of Georgia, [01:08:36.000] >> he was at a Lions Club meeting outside [01:08:38.719] outside of uh uh Atlanta. Uh and the the [01:08:42.640] guys that were there went out to have a [01:08:44.080] cigarette break and he goes out with him [01:08:46.239] even though he wasn’t smoking [01:08:48.239] >> and they were out there on the veranda [01:08:49.920] at this Lions Club meeting and a UFO [01:08:52.080] came, you know, and it was like it was [01:08:54.080] like uh treetop level. [01:08:56.080] >> And we’re not talking about, you know, [01:08:57.359] dancing lights in the sky somewhere. [01:08:58.880] We’re talking about T treetop level the [01:09:01.040] length of a football field away and they [01:09:03.600] saw it right there. So he knew [01:09:05.120] positively that it was real and so the f [01:09:07.920] the first thing that he did when he got [01:09:10.239] in he said just like Obama first thing [01:09:12.960] he did says tell me about the aliens. [01:09:15.040] Give me give me the UFOs. [01:09:16.640] >> You have to imagine that pretty much [01:09:18.239] everybody who gets into office has that [01:09:20.400] question right and yet nobody has ever [01:09:23.040] revealed anything of substance and like [01:09:26.960] why do you think that is? And also I [01:09:28.799] want to hear the story about how you [01:09:30.719] eventually became convinced that there’s [01:09:32.880] a there there when it comes to this [01:09:34.319] phenomenon too because we’ve kind of [01:09:35.839] we’ve kind of jumped right in from this [01:09:37.679] POV of [laughter] like it’s a foregone [01:09:39.359] conclusion in your mind that all of this [01:09:41.120] is real but but there must have been a [01:09:43.040] bit of an intellectual journey there for [01:09:44.640] you I’m assuming. [01:09:45.440] >> Well it was I mean I’ I’d always been [01:09:48.560] totally convinced that the UFOs were [01:09:51.279] real because I was always totally [01:09:53.040] convinced that there were [01:09:53.839] extraterrestrial life. I said, you know, [01:09:56.000] even as soon as I when I was like seven [01:09:58.400] years old and I when I really found out [01:10:00.320] what stars were, I realized the stars [01:10:02.960] are suns of another solar system, right? [01:10:06.320] Just like us. So they must have planets [01:10:08.480] orbiting around them and there some of [01:10:10.480] them have to have beings on them. So I’d [01:10:13.040] always understood that to be true. So I [01:10:15.679] decided that I was going to be an [01:10:17.360] astronomer, you know. Uh when I was 7 [01:10:19.600] years old, I started investigating. Then [01:10:21.520] I realized that to be an astronomer, you [01:10:23.199] had to really do a lot of math. [01:10:24.798] >> [laughter] [01:10:24.800] >> Yeah. Yeah. [01:10:25.679] >> And it wasn’t that I didn’t do well in [01:10:27.920] math, but I didn’t want to have to spend [01:10:29.120] my life doing it. And so I decided I was [01:10:31.280] going to become an astronaut. And I [01:10:33.120] learned that they had just founded uh [01:10:36.239] the United States Air Force Academy. It [01:10:38.320] had just begun. So I said, “That’s what [01:10:40.080] you do. You go to the Air Force Academy, [01:10:41.760] right? And become a pilot and you become [01:10:43.440] an astronaut.” So you could get to [01:10:45.840] participate in this process, right? [01:10:47.920] Reaching out to the stars and getting to [01:10:49.600] meet the people from other planets. So I [01:10:52.000] spent my whole time preparing to to go [01:10:54.800] to the US Air Force Academy and I ended [01:10:57.199] up uh by 1963 being the number one [01:11:00.719] candidate for the uh senatorial [01:11:02.960] appointments to the US Air Force Academy [01:11:05.440] out of New York State, [snorts] right? [01:11:07.520] Uh and I went to interview Jacob Javitz, [01:11:10.159] the Republican senator, and uh he has I [01:11:14.880] go all the way down you because I lived [01:11:16.400] way up in the woods up in northern New [01:11:18.480] York. I’ve been lit by Lake George, [01:11:20.480] right? And so I ended up going down to [01:11:22.560] New York City, the first time I’d ever [01:11:24.000] been there. Uh uh and go down to go down [01:11:27.199] to New York City uh and going to Jacob [01:11:29.360] Jabb’s New York office, right? Uh and uh [01:11:33.120] he said to me, Danny, he said, uh why [01:11:35.520] why do you want to go to the Air Force [01:11:36.800] Academy? And I said, well, you know, [01:11:38.719] because I want to become a pilot. I want [01:11:40.880] to get to be an astronaut. Uh and he [01:11:43.040] said, oh yes, all young boys here in [01:11:45.040] 1963 all want to be an astronaut. you [01:11:46.800] know, John Glenn, you know, going around [01:11:48.239] the Earth, blah blah. And I said, “No, I [01:11:51.280] actually I’ve always wanted to to be an [01:11:53.360] astronaut.” Uh, I said, I said, “So, why [01:11:56.239] do you want to be an astronaut?” And I [01:11:57.920] said, “Because, you know, we’re at [01:11:59.679] living at the most important time [01:12:01.040] probably in the whole history of our [01:12:02.400] human family. Uh, we’re right at the [01:12:04.480] brink where we’re going to be going into [01:12:05.840] outer space and we’re going to get to [01:12:07.440] meet these other beings that come from [01:12:09.440] other star systems and stuff.” There was [01:12:11.120] this big long pause and he looked at me. [01:12:12.719] He said, “You actually believe that [01:12:14.560] there’s other intelligent beings on [01:12:16.800] these in these other star systems in our [01:12:18.800] galaxy?” And I said, “Well, sure.” I [01:12:21.520] said, “So do you. I mean, you’re a [01:12:22.960] United States senator.” [01:12:25.320] [laughter] And he was completely floored [01:12:27.679] by that, you know. And he said, “Uh, [01:12:30.239] wait a second here. Wait a second.” He [01:12:31.520] says, “Uh, this is I hadn’t quite [01:12:33.679] expected this kind of a conversation [01:12:35.199] here, [01:12:35.760] >> right?” [01:12:36.080] >> I said, “Look, look, I got to level with [01:12:37.679] you, Danny.” He said, uh, you know, I’ve [01:12:40.080] already given the appointment, the [01:12:41.199] senatorial appointment to, uh, the the [01:12:43.760] son of my principal financial funer for [01:12:46.239] my campaigns. He says, that’s how it [01:12:48.560] really is here, Danny. He said, you [01:12:50.159] know, but but look at, he said, I’ll [01:12:52.080] I’ll give you the appointment to the [01:12:53.360] Naval Academy. You know, you can become [01:12:54.960] a pilot in the Naval Academy. I said, [01:12:56.560] no. I said, I’m not into boats [01:12:58.725] [laughter] [01:12:59.280] into planes, fine. And he said, no, no, [01:13:01.199] you can become a pilot in in the Navy. I [01:13:03.040] said, but I have to do all that boat [01:13:04.239] stuff. I said, I want to go to the Air [01:13:05.840] Force Academy. He said, well, okay. He [01:13:07.520] said, I said, “Uh who who’s your [01:13:10.080] congressman anyhow?” And I said, “It’s [01:13:12.080] Carlton King.” He said, “Oh, I I know [01:13:13.679] Carlton.” He says, “I’ll give him a [01:13:14.960] call. I hadn’t give you his [01:13:16.320] appointment.” He said, “Look, let me [01:13:17.600] tell you something.” He said, “After [01:13:18.960] you’ve been at the Air Force Academy for [01:13:20.400] a year or so, nobody pays any attention [01:13:22.159] to who the senatorial appointments were [01:13:24.000] or who the congressional appointments [01:13:25.440] were.” He said, “So you can uh so [01:13:28.880] Carlton King ended up giving his [01:13:30.719] appointment to the son of the Republican [01:13:32.880] mayor of Glenn’s Falls who was number [01:13:35.440] seven in the congressional district out [01:13:38.239] of the 42 congressional districts in New [01:13:40.159] York. He was number seven, you know, in [01:13:42.080] the district, but he got the [01:13:43.440] appointment.” So I said, “Wait a second. [01:13:45.600] Something’s real wrong here.” I said, [01:13:47.679] “This isn’t working right. You know, [01:13:49.840] this this our government isn’t there’s [01:13:52.000] something out of tune here with the way [01:13:53.600] things are going.” So, I said I I should [01:13:56.320] have become a lawyer and help work on [01:13:59.679] making the government work better to get [01:14:01.440] it back in tune a little bit and then [01:14:03.280] I’ll get involved in getting ready to go [01:14:05.600] to outer space. Uh, and but when I came [01:14:08.880] out because of the peculiar track that I [01:14:11.040] took through the Harvard Civil Rights [01:14:12.159] Lview and the Pentagon Papers and all [01:14:14.560] that, I realized that our government [01:14:16.400] wasn’t just a little out of tune. [01:14:18.320] >> Oh, yeah. [01:14:19.120] >> It was playing an entirely different [01:14:20.719] song. [01:14:21.440] >> Yeah. than we’d been told, [01:14:24.480] you know, and so uh so I knew I got it [01:14:27.199] took longer than I was hoping. [01:14:29.199] >> So, but but all the time I remained [01:14:31.280] completely convinced that that there [01:14:33.679] were extraterrestrial beings and I [01:14:35.520] closely followed all the UFO [01:14:37.280] information, Betty and Barney Hill, you [01:14:39.600] know, and the Andre affair and all that [01:14:41.120] kind of stuff. So, and uh so I had a [01:14:44.080] knack for kind of remembering all of it [01:14:45.920] and kind of figuring out what was going [01:14:47.600] on. So when I got when I was at Jesuit [01:14:50.640] headquarters, you know, in in the late [01:14:53.920] uh actually December of 1976, you know, [01:14:57.199] when Marcia Smith called me, uh what I [01:14:59.440] did when she asked if I could do this, I [01:15:01.760] went to my superior uh William J. uh [01:15:05.280] Davis, uh Father Davis, and uh asked him [01:15:08.880] if it would be all right for me to do [01:15:10.480] this. He checked with the other people [01:15:12.159] at the staff at the headquarters. They [01:15:14.480] checked all with the assistant [01:15:16.000] provincials for social uh uh ministry. [01:15:19.679] They checked with the with the [01:15:21.440] provincials. [01:15:22.640] >> Okay. Uh and so I ended up getting up [01:15:25.920] the line of the Jesuit order to agree to [01:15:29.040] have me become general counsel to this [01:15:31.520] investigation. So when I when [01:15:34.617] [clears throat] [01:15:35.280] and Marshall Smith said to me kind of [01:15:38.159] the same thing that people asked the [01:15:39.520] question first becomes president said, [01:15:41.199] “So what is it you want to know?” And I [01:15:43.120] said, “I want to see I want to see the [01:15:44.880] classified portions of Project Blue [01:15:46.640] Book.” [01:15:47.120] >> Mhm. [01:15:48.320] >> And she says, “Oh.” She said, “They’re [01:15:50.320] they’re never going to give us that.” [01:15:52.480] And I said, ‘Well, you aren’t going to [01:15:53.520] get it if you don’t ask. You know, so [01:15:55.360] the president’s asked you to do this. [01:15:56.960] Let’s just ask them. And so she she did. [01:16:00.239] And uh and turns out they agreed. [01:16:02.480] >> Wow. [01:16:02.800] >> That I could get to see them, [01:16:05.120] >> right? [01:16:05.600] >> And what did you see? Uh what what I saw [01:16:07.760] is what I found is I found in the files [01:16:10.480] I found photographs of a crash [01:16:12.560] retrieval. [01:16:13.280] >> Wow. [01:16:13.840] >> Going on. It wasn’t any in any doubt [01:16:16.159] whatsoever what it was. It was a [01:16:18.080] fullscale UFO with a big, you know, bulb [01:16:21.040] on the top and the whole saucer shape [01:16:23.120] and it had hit in this snow covered [01:16:25.280] field, you know, so it clearly wasn’t [01:16:27.040] Roswell and plus the thing was [01:16:28.719] completely intact and it hit and it had [01:16:31.840] plowed through this whole field and it [01:16:34.719] turned up all the earth in the snowy [01:16:37.120] field. You could see the big trench and [01:16:38.880] it was here stuck in the side of a of [01:16:41.280] another embankment that was all covered [01:16:42.880] with snow, but it was stuck in the side [01:16:44.320] of the embankment. And I was looking at [01:16:47.120] the photographs and I realized it was [01:16:48.800] one of these overhead projectors uh with [01:16:51.199] microf fish, right? Because they were [01:16:52.960] all in these little microfish uh things [01:16:54.880] in these little film canisters, right? [01:16:57.440] Uh the documents. And so I [01:16:59.113] [clears throat] I looked and the second [01:17:01.199] or third of the photographs I said, [01:17:02.400] “Wait a second. There’s some symbols on [01:17:06.159] the base of the of the uh little uh [01:17:10.400] bulbous thing on the top.” Right? Uh, [01:17:12.800] and so I I focused the thing and I I [01:17:16.560] took out the yellow pad and I slipped it [01:17:18.480] under the thing, but I’ve been told that [01:17:20.239] I wasn’t supposed to take any [01:17:21.520] photographs or anything of it. And uh, [01:17:24.400] so what I did is I opened up the the [01:17:26.560] yellow pad to the the cardboard section [01:17:28.960] in the back and slid it under the the [01:17:31.600] overhead projector, focused it so I [01:17:34.640] could see the symbols, and I traced [01:17:36.880] them. I [snorts] traced the symbols. [01:17:38.640] >> You drew them. I I know when you were on [01:17:40.560] Chris’s show. [01:17:41.440] >> Yeah. Just ask me [01:17:42.560] >> how how would we can’t draw them here. [01:17:44.159] Well, I guess you do have a piece of [01:17:45.440] paper, but yeah, how would you how would [01:17:47.120] you describe those symbols? [01:17:48.400] >> Well, that that uh I’ll I’ll I’ll show [01:17:50.800] you. Let me see here. I’ll find some uh [01:17:53.199] piece of paper here. [01:17:55.360] >> I’ve written on both sides of almost [01:17:56.800] everything. I’ I’ve got my little tags [01:17:58.400] in here. This is this crazy system that [01:18:00.800] I have. Oh, here’s one. Okay. But that [01:18:03.520] uh [clears throat] [01:18:04.480] here’s here’s what they here’s what they [01:18:06.239] look like. That they we have the [01:18:09.440] I’ll do it upside down. Here here’s the [01:18:11.360] hill. I’ll uh [01:18:13.760] >> here’s the hill where it’s stuck in, [01:18:15.600] right? And here’s here’s the craft. It [01:18:17.920] was the other way around. It was like [01:18:19.199] this, right? And here’s here’s the the [01:18:21.360] craft. So here’s the kind of bulb on the [01:18:23.760] top of it. And here’s the here’s the uh [01:18:27.520] the uh craft like this. Uh and it’s [01:18:31.280] stuck in the side of this big bank like [01:18:33.679] this. There was this big trench that [01:18:35.280] went all the way across the field where [01:18:36.880] it had gone in. And there were these uh [01:18:38.960] Air Force personnel. You could tell and [01:18:41.280] they were standing around the thing. [01:18:43.520] They’re taking pictures and stuff, [01:18:45.120] photographs. [01:18:45.760] >> So, it’s like a cartoonishly [01:18:48.400] like exact depiction of what you would [01:18:51.120] think a saucer-shaped UFO would look [01:18:53.120] like. Correct. Did that surprise you? [01:18:54.480] >> Not what you would think it look like, [01:18:55.520] what they do look like cuz people had [01:18:57.199] seen them and they described them in [01:18:59.040] great detail. Uh, and so that, you know, [01:19:01.120] there wasn’t any doubt about what it [01:19:02.320] was. And what I what I recognized is [01:19:04.800] that when I cranked up this uh overhead [01:19:07.040] thing, I could see along the base right [01:19:09.440] here, right along the base of the the [01:19:12.320] top of this thing, there were symbols. [01:19:14.480] Uh and they they looked like this. They [01:19:16.640] they were like, this isn’t the exact [01:19:19.199] order that they were in, but they were [01:19:21.360] like this. [01:19:35.360] Is this an approximation or is this like [01:19:37.120] exact? [01:19:37.679] >> This is an approximation. Got it. Got [01:19:39.120] it. And so I so I [clears throat] I I I [01:19:42.640] traced them literally cuz I I put it [01:19:44.880] right down there and I traced them so I [01:19:46.400] would have them absolutely perfect and [01:19:47.920] exactly right. Uh and then I said, “Holy [01:19:50.800] shit.” I said, “I’d better get out of [01:19:52.159] here.” Because they told me, “You’re not [01:19:53.760] supposed to take any notes. You’re not [01:19:55.040] supposed to take any photographs.” I [01:19:56.640] didn’t take any notes or photographs. I [01:19:58.320] just copied them. Right. Right. So, I [01:20:00.550] [clears throat] close up the little [01:20:01.520] yellow pad and I get up and I put the [01:20:03.760] little canister back in. I put it away. [01:20:05.760] I stick it stick the yellow pad [01:20:07.840] lengthwise under my arm and just walked [01:20:10.480] right out and picked up my briefcase cuz [01:20:12.640] they made me leave the briefcase [01:20:14.080] outside. [01:20:14.719] >> And And do you know now what this crash [01:20:16.480] was and where it was? Okay. No idea [01:20:18.640] still. [01:20:19.040] >> I do not. Uh, all I know is that it was [01:20:20.960] winter time because it was snow. Uh, and [01:20:23.199] there was Air Force guys because I could [01:20:24.640] tell they were Air Force guys because I [01:20:26.239] was familiar with that. You know, they [01:20:27.440] had the little furry stuff around winter [01:20:29.440] winter garb Air Force guys. And one of [01:20:32.000] them actually the guy over here [01:20:34.000] >> actually had a camera a film camera like [01:20:37.520] with the two little bulbs on the top. [01:20:39.840] >> So presumably there’s video of this [01:20:41.360] somewhere. [01:20:41.920] >> Well, it’s it’s a film. It’ll be film [01:20:44.640] pre video. But there the two little [01:20:46.560] canisters. So it was like some I don’t [01:20:48.960] know 50s or early 60s or something cuz [01:20:52.000] it was kind of an older kind of model of [01:20:53.920] a of a camera. But that’s and that’s [01:20:55.679] what it was. So I I end up uh [01:20:58.191] [clears throat] [01:20:58.719] going back to Jesuit headquarters uh and [01:21:01.520] I brought the yellow pad with me and I [01:21:04.320] going to see Father Davis, right, my [01:21:06.159] superior. I say, “Uh uh, Bill, look what [01:21:09.760] I’ve got.” And I pointed out to him and [01:21:12.080] he looked at it and he leans over and he [01:21:14.719] slides open the drawer on his desk and [01:21:16.719] he takes out this little 8 and 1 half by [01:21:18.400] 11 manila folder with a little copper [01:21:21.280] clasp on it like little bronze clasp and [01:21:23.120] he hands it to me. So I unclasp it and I [01:21:25.840] slide out an 8 and 1 half by 11 black [01:21:28.400] and white photograph. [01:21:30.080] >> Yeah. [01:21:30.719] >> Of a UFO in flight. [01:21:33.199] >> And I said I said, “Wow.” I said, “You [01:21:35.600] know, where did you get this?” He said, [01:21:37.280] “My sister Dodie gave it to me.” And I [01:21:39.600] said, ‘Where did Dodie get it?’ She [01:21:41.120] said, ‘Mike gave it to her husband, [01:21:42.800] who’s the chief air traffic controller [01:21:45.040] at the Seattle airport in Washington [01:21:47.679] State. Uh, I said, ‘Well, where did Mike [01:21:50.159] get it? She said, his best friend gave [01:21:51.920] it to him, who’s a a a cargo uh pilot [01:21:54.800] that flies cargo all around the [01:21:56.400] Northwest and up into Alaska. And he [01:21:58.480] took this photograph right out of the [01:22:00.159] window of this airplane in Alaska. Uh I [01:22:03.679] don’t know where but but he’s all around [01:22:05.600] Oregon and Washington state that whole [01:22:07.600] area. That’s what he flies. [01:22:09.040] >> Uh and he’s he took it out [01:22:10.900] [clears throat] of the window of his [01:22:11.920] airplane and when he and brought it to [01:22:14.239] the drugstore [01:22:15.679] >> to get developed so what you had to do [01:22:17.520] back then, right? And when he sees the [01:22:20.239] the thing, he doesn’t want to get in [01:22:21.920] trouble. He doesn’t said he didn’t want [01:22:23.360] to lose his license by reporting it. And [01:22:26.000] so he takes it to his best friend who’s [01:22:28.320] the head of the air traffic controllers [01:22:30.239] at the Seattle airport, right? and and [01:22:32.800] gives it to him saying, “Okay, I’ve done [01:22:35.360] that.” And then Mike didn’t want to get [01:22:37.360] in trouble, so he takes it and gives it [01:22:39.760] to his sister do his wife Dodie and [01:22:42.239] said, “Here, bring this to your brother. [01:22:44.719] He’s a priest.” [01:22:46.320] >> Okay. [01:22:47.199] >> And whatever that means, you know, but [01:22:49.920] it means [clears throat] a lot as it [01:22:51.040] turns out. [01:22:52.320] >> Yeah. Expand on that. Why why is the [01:22:54.800] Vatican interested in UFOs and and why [01:22:57.920] do they you know there’s other people [01:22:58.960] who talk about this too like Dana Pulka [01:23:00.880] talks about that they seem to have had [01:23:02.639] this pretty sophisticated astronomical [01:23:05.280] program that is directly interested in [01:23:07.920] the phenomenon and you know she’s gone [01:23:09.920] there into the archive supposedly with [01:23:11.840] this mysterious Tim Taylor figure and [01:23:14.320] they has studied it there to some degree [01:23:16.800] but what what is the true story and true [01:23:19.920] depth as far as your understanding goes [01:23:22.639] in why they’re interested in the [01:23:24.560] phenomenon and what they know about [01:23:26.239] Well, I mean the the I mean the the [01:23:29.840] entire the entire Catholic Church has uh [01:23:33.440] risen up around a person, you know, [01:23:37.280] 2,000 years ago, you know, who was [01:23:40.639] displaying all kinds of these particular [01:23:43.440] talents or charisms, you know, where he [01:23:46.080] could, you know, walk on water or [01:23:47.840] levitate, you know, could telepathically [01:23:50.639] communicate with people, could [01:23:51.840] understand, uh, you know, what their all [01:23:54.080] their thoughts were. uh you know could [01:23:56.639] transform matter from one form into [01:23:58.960] another. You know, water into wine and [01:24:02.239] uh and uh uh and and manifest uh loaves [01:24:06.159] and fishes, [01:24:07.440] >> you know, uh according to their [01:24:09.600] mythology, right? Uh well, it turns out [01:24:11.840] that Hindu sus and and others do it too, [01:24:15.520] right? You know, and and Buddhist monks [01:24:17.840] do it. uh and it turns out that there’s [01:24:20.320] a whole uh element of our human family [01:24:23.520] uh in any given generation who have [01:24:25.679] these kind of talents that that can do [01:24:27.679] this. And so that that uh it it wasn’t [01:24:31.600] just so much you know what they were [01:24:33.920] doing uh or even so much what they were [01:24:36.880] saying. It’s as they say it’s who they [01:24:40.400] are. [01:24:42.080] And so the question is who are these [01:24:44.000] people? What is what’s going on here? [01:24:46.159] you know uh and uh and since the since [01:24:48.880] the entire Catholic Christologology has [01:24:51.280] arisen up around a person who had these [01:24:53.520] type of capabilities when they uh [01:24:56.639] started realizing quite early on in [01:24:59.120] history that these craft were flying [01:25:01.600] around and that there reports coming in [01:25:04.639] of what these beings were doing is the [01:25:06.960] beings would levitate. They’d kind of [01:25:09.360] float the float float [laughter] out and [01:25:11.920] and and elevate people, you know, reach [01:25:14.159] out and touch them on the elbow and they [01:25:16.080] would come up off the ground and they [01:25:17.280] would kind of float them into the the [01:25:19.360] craft. Uh and they were telepathically [01:25:21.600] communicating with them. Yeah. you know, [01:25:23.679] and and that they they started to say, [01:25:25.520] you know, there seems to be some kind of [01:25:27.120] relationship here between right uh these [01:25:30.400] beings that are being reported in these [01:25:32.320] flying craft flying around uh and these [01:25:34.960] kind of talents and charisms that these [01:25:37.280] that the saints have uh that are similar [01:25:39.920] to those that Christ had, you know, uh [01:25:42.719] and so therefore we ought to keep some [01:25:45.120] notes on this and record on this. And [01:25:47.120] that’s in that the the uh the Vatican [01:25:50.159] archives became the kind of archives [01:25:52.880] that you know analogous to the [01:25:54.480] Alexandria [01:25:56.000] library. [01:25:56.800] >> And people have talked about how massive [01:25:59.760] the Vatican archives are. But how how [01:26:02.000] big are they? Like have you you’ve been [01:26:03.920] >> I’ve been to I’ve been through the [01:26:05.199] archives, you know, I’ve met with, you [01:26:07.040] know, uh with uh uh uh Yo Yan, who’s the [01:26:11.600] head of the archives. Yeah. uh because I [01:26:14.000] sent the letter to them, you know, uh [01:26:16.000] pursuant to the request of of the [01:26:18.400] President Carter in the Congressional [01:26:21.040] Research Service and I got permission [01:26:23.040] from my superiors at the Jesuit [01:26:24.800] headquarters to do it. So, I wrote to [01:26:26.880] the the Vatican archives uh explained to [01:26:29.440] them in the letter what was going on and [01:26:31.199] we’d like to get to have me get access [01:26:33.920] to them. And they wrote back and said, [01:26:35.760] “No.” [01:26:38.320] I I said so I wrote him a second letter [01:26:40.639] saying I guess I didn’t really make [01:26:42.560] myself clear here. You know this isn’t [01:26:44.000] just idle curiosity. You know the [01:26:45.840] president is asking for these things and [01:26:48.080] we want to participate with him and [01:26:50.080] helping him understand all this and they [01:26:52.159] said no again. So uh I later was at the [01:26:55.920] archives and went to or at the Vatican [01:26:59.120] uh in meeting with the secretary of [01:27:00.719] state on another matter. Uh and so I was [01:27:03.840] uh I went to see Johan and uh so [01:27:07.679] actually Johan came to see me. I was [01:27:09.840] coming out of the secretary the uh the [01:27:12.400] secretary of state’s desk or office uh [01:27:16.480] and there was Johan standing in the [01:27:18.560] hallway and he said I’d heard that you [01:27:20.480] were here. He said I remember you know [01:27:22.480] your letter. Uh I said why don’t you [01:27:24.400] come on down to the archives. Let’s [01:27:25.840] talk. So I went down. Well, what he [01:27:27.760] wanted me to do, he wanted me because [01:27:29.360] I’d been legal counsel for the New York [01:27:30.960] Times in the Pentagon Papers, he wanted [01:27:32.960] me to write a letter to the editor of [01:27:34.480] the New York Times, uh, openly [01:27:36.560] advocating uh, in my capacity as legal [01:27:39.120] counsel for social ministry of the [01:27:40.560] Jesuit order. You know, wanted me to [01:27:42.800] write a letter to the editor advocating [01:27:44.639] that they open up the archives about [01:27:47.760] Pope Pius I 12th, [01:27:49.199] >> okay? is the one who had signed the [01:27:50.800] concordat with Hitler in Mussolini. [01:27:53.520] Okay. And the fascists to agreeing [01:27:56.320] basically not to go after the German [01:27:58.800] Reich uh for the Jewish death camps [01:28:02.635] [snorts] [01:28:02.800] >> uh in exchange for which Mussolini would [01:28:04.719] agree to restore the uh citystate status [01:28:08.400] to the Vatican. [01:28:09.840] >> Okay. [01:28:10.320] >> Uh and uh and so Pis the 12th had [01:28:13.520] negotiated that deal with Cardinal Vio [01:28:15.840] who was his secretary of state. Uh, and [01:28:18.320] so, uh, he that’s what he wanted me. So, [01:28:20.000] I agreed to do it, you know, and I wrote [01:28:22.880] the letter, drafted the letter for him, [01:28:24.400] and gave it to him. Uh, and and he said, [01:28:26.880] “Now, what can I do for you?” And I [01:28:29.199] said, “You know what you’re going to do [01:28:30.400] for me?” He said, “I can’t do that. I [01:28:32.800] can’t do that.” He said, “Not yet. Not [01:28:34.960] yet.” Uh, and so, we he hasn’t given me [01:28:38.480] access uh to that yet, but I’m hoping he [01:28:42.560] will. [01:28:43.280] >> Yeah. Wow. Okay. So, but if you had to [01:28:47.120] guess knowing [01:28:48.639] >> I don’t get paid to guess. Okay. [01:28:50.320] >> You know that that’s the what [01:28:51.280] distinguishes us, you know, is that [01:28:52.880] there’s an awful lot of guessing going [01:28:54.239] on. What what I do do is I try to gather [01:28:56.719] all the data together and following the [01:28:59.040] protocols taught to me by Larry Tribe, [01:29:01.840] you know, figure out what the the range [01:29:03.760] of probabilities are. what are the [01:29:05.760] things you know even to you know the [01:29:07.120] singledigit possibilities you know all [01:29:09.760] the way up to more than 51% [01:29:12.159] probabilities and then lay them out in [01:29:14.400] front of us and then start exploring for [01:29:16.239] the data that can you know fix the [01:29:18.239] numbers from you know you don’t start [01:29:20.080] out with even balances all the time and [01:29:21.920] some of these hypotheticals you know [01:29:24.080] some of them are more probable than [01:29:25.360] others right on their face uh and you go [01:29:27.679] through the entire analysis now the [01:29:29.440] additional advantage that I had is that [01:29:31.440] at Flee Bailey’s office [01:29:33.600] >> uh when I was there working on the pen [01:29:35.199] on the Watergate burglary case. You [01:29:37.199] know, I realized that that Effle [01:29:38.800] Bailey’s office, Bailey and and and [01:29:41.199] Bailey and Alch uh they have a whole [01:29:44.239] stable of professional private [01:29:45.760] investigators, [01:29:47.280] >> uh Morardi and Associates, which is [01:29:49.440] owned by Lee Bailey, [laughter] but but [01:29:51.360] it’s it’s a whole a whole 40 guys that [01:29:54.239] are there, gun toers, licensed gun toers [01:29:56.800] on airplanes and the whole nine yards. [01:29:58.639] real professionals, you know, and I had [01:30:01.440] people assigned to me to help me do [01:30:03.920] investigations. And so when they [01:30:05.840] realized how I did investigations and [01:30:07.600] got to oversee investigations, they [01:30:09.199] thought it was really quite [01:30:10.159] professional. Plus they figured that I [01:30:13.199] was a good guy which they had most of [01:30:16.480] them the careers they’ve been in [01:30:18.159] government investigators you know FBI [01:30:20.480] CIA people you know a lot of CI criminal [01:30:23.520] investigating division of the very [01:30:25.120] military services you know uh and so [01:30:28.000] they said oh finally we get to actually [01:30:30.159] work on something that is honest and and [01:30:33.440] you know not you know some covert [01:30:35.120] operation or or you know some [01:30:36.960] politically motivated operation so that [01:30:39.679] uh so I got to be friends with a lot of [01:30:41.440] guys. And so that I ended up maintaining [01:30:43.840] these relationships and the one of them, [01:30:46.480] the guy that was my chief investigator, [01:30:48.239] William Johnstone Taylor, his name was, [01:30:50.800] uh, three tour Vietnam Marine Corps, C, [01:30:54.239] >> right? Uh, and he knew all kinds because [01:30:56.480] he’d done three tours, you know, [01:30:58.480] rational people would do only one if [01:31:02.080] they had to, you know, and so the guys [01:31:04.800] would come through the the crotch, as [01:31:06.560] they call it, would come through [01:31:07.600] Vietnam. uh and they do one tour and [01:31:10.480] they’d be air force OSI office of [01:31:12.320] special investigations off of office of [01:31:14.480] naval investigating services you know uh [01:31:17.520] uh the uh other US Army C marine corps [01:31:21.920] and he get to meet all these guys right [01:31:24.080] and he had three entire tours there with [01:31:27.280] these guys coming through so they would [01:31:29.679] would go out of the service and then [01:31:31.679] they would go to work for you know FBI [01:31:34.480] you know secret service you know state [01:31:36.480] police BCI bureau of criminal criminal [01:31:38.480] investigations, sheriff’s departments [01:31:40.560] all across the country. And so Bill was [01:31:43.360] smart and he maintained contact with all [01:31:45.520] of them, you know, and he had this [01:31:47.199] entire rolodex of these guys. Uh and so [01:31:50.400] that when when I would get a case, I’d [01:31:52.960] call Bill Taylor. He was the f one of [01:31:55.440] the co-founders of the former federal [01:31:58.159] investigative officers association uh [01:32:01.040] and the founder of the Florida [01:32:02.880] Association of Professional Private [01:32:04.480] Investigators. Okay? you know, uh, and [01:32:06.800] so I had access to the the guys and I [01:32:09.600] had access to how to figure out how to [01:32:11.280] do investigations. And so we set up, uh, [01:32:14.080] the institute out of the Jesuit [01:32:15.760] headquarters. [01:32:16.880] >> We set up the Cristic Institute uh, as a [01:32:19.520] 501c3 public interest uh, organization [01:32:22.880] uh, investigative agency and litigator. [01:32:26.800] Uh and so uh and the Jesuit headquarters [01:32:30.400] gave us a an old cobbler shop. Yeah. [01:32:33.040] That was inherited by one of their [01:32:35.040] Jesuit guys, Dam Todoro, and his sister [01:32:37.760] Maria, who was a a mercy nun, and they [01:32:40.560] couldn’t own any property. So that what [01:32:42.480] they did is they gave it to Jesuit [01:32:44.159] headquarters who gave it to us as the [01:32:45.840] 501c3. So we had this little cobbler [01:32:49.360] shop right on right at the bottom of [01:32:51.840] Capitol Hill. So uh you know we took all [01:32:55.360] the little they had all those little [01:32:56.480] metal feet that you cobbler shop thing [01:32:58.639] we s we kept them in our office our law [01:33:00.560] office is kind of cute and we uh and so [01:33:03.360] we set up we set up shop as the Christic [01:33:05.440] Institute uh and uh went ahead and uh [01:33:08.800] did the uh did major litigation [01:33:12.639] >> and investigations out of there. [01:33:14.400] >> Yeah. Yeah. you’ve led such an [01:33:16.000] incredible life and this road that [01:33:18.639] you’ve been on has, you know, led us to [01:33:21.199] where we are now. And I don’t I don’t [01:33:23.040] want to derail your story because [01:33:24.400] there’s so many there’s so many [01:33:26.080] fascinating things that we could spend [01:33:27.520] forever on along the way, but we do have [01:33:29.520] limited time unfortunately where we are. [01:33:31.520] I don’t know what time they’re going to [01:33:32.480] kick us out, but we still have plenty of [01:33:34.239] time. [01:33:35.360] Some of the things I do want to make [01:33:36.560] sure that we get to is um my audience is [01:33:39.679] obviously interested in this whole topic [01:33:41.040] of the UFO phenomenon, but I think [01:33:42.560] they’re particularly interested in as am [01:33:44.800] I is the role of consciousness and the [01:33:47.360] role and and what it’s [01:33:50.000] >> Yes, the psionic stuff and also the sort [01:33:52.159] of like spiritual implications of it as [01:33:54.719] well as the identity of what the [01:33:56.480] phenomenon is in and of itself really [01:33:58.960] like are we really talking about like [01:34:01.440] alien beings who literally traveled from [01:34:03.360] another planet? Are we talking about [01:34:04.719] emissaries of higher consciousness and [01:34:07.120] and what you know of course it’s [01:34:08.960] speculation and you said you don’t get [01:34:10.320] paid to guess but it is fun to speculate [01:34:12.400] about what their motivations might be [01:34:14.159] and and what you know [01:34:16.080] >> the true identity of these entities is [01:34:19.120] behind maybe the the corporeal mask of [01:34:22.080] how they appear to be physically. So, um [01:34:25.120] I guess yeah, let’s start with the [01:34:26.480] psionic stuff because you have commented [01:34:28.400] on that to me privately and in other [01:34:30.400] shows, I think, but um you really do [01:34:33.040] seem to think that there is a there [01:34:34.480] there and you know, I’m sure you’re [01:34:36.080] you’re well aware of project Stargate. [01:34:38.000] I’ve had a couple of the projects. [01:34:39.199] Stargate, remote viewers on the show, [01:34:41.520] Paul Smith, who you may know, uh Lynn [01:34:43.760] Buchanan, and um [01:34:45.520] >> I’ve met Ingo Swan, you know, and uh and [01:34:48.560] uh and the guys, you know, that So, I I [01:34:51.520] got I got briefed in on the remote [01:34:53.679] viewing program back in 1977. [01:34:56.080] >> Oh, really? Wow. So, so you knew what [01:34:58.080] this was going on when it was very very [01:35:00.560] classified still? Yeah. [01:35:01.920] >> Incredible. [01:35:02.560] >> Very classified. [01:35:03.360] >> So, why did why did Jesuit headquarters [01:35:05.040] need to know about Stargate? Well, it [01:35:07.199] was interesting what what I I don’t want [01:35:09.520] to go too far into detail, but but what [01:35:11.679] happened is is uh I at Jesuit [01:35:15.040] headquarters, uh Father Bill Davis and I [01:35:18.400] in the social ministry office, you know, [01:35:20.159] I I I went over to see uh uh the Jesuit [01:35:24.480] priest who was a congressman uh who [01:35:27.199] chaired the uh House Judiciary [01:35:29.040] Committee. And I said to him, “What’s [01:35:31.600] the story here? I’m in Washington DC. [01:35:33.679] you know, I’ve been asked to come down [01:35:34.639] to the headquarters, uh, and you know, [01:35:36.560] they’ve got, you know, agriculture [01:35:38.080] people have lobbyists and the national [01:35:39.679] organization has lobbyists. They’re all [01:35:42.080] over the city. Why is it that the [01:35:44.480] religious organizations don’t have like [01:35:47.199] uh a shop that actually engages in a [01:35:50.239] collective sharing of information and [01:35:52.239] stuff? He said, “Well, you know, [01:35:53.760] frankly,” he said, “the the there are 54 [01:35:57.040] offices of different denominations that [01:35:59.840] monitor legislative issues uh in town. [01:36:03.440] Uh but the they don’t trust the Catholic [01:36:05.600] Church because of the bad history we [01:36:07.520] have, you know, kind of run the world.” [01:36:09.760] Yeah. Uh sure. Uh and so, you know, that [01:36:11.920] they they all just maintain their own [01:36:14.480] individual shops. And I said, “Well, I’ [01:36:16.320] I’d like to, you know, get to talk to [01:36:18.480] them and see if we could set up some [01:36:20.239] kind of common operation.” And we did. I [01:36:23.520] went first to see Dave Sapperstein, [01:36:25.199] Rabbi Sapperstein, the Union of American [01:36:27.600] Hebrew Congregations, got him on board. [01:36:30.320] uh then went to see the people at the US [01:36:31.920] Catholic Conference of Bishops uh got [01:36:34.000] them on board, went to the Unitarians, [01:36:37.040] uh got them on board, then went to the [01:36:38.800] Episcopals and got them on board, and we [01:36:40.800] built a thing called the Washington [01:36:43.120] Interreligious Staff Council. Uh and we [01:36:47.520] set up at the National Council of [01:36:49.440] Churches uh building there, the [01:36:51.199] Methodist building, right next door to [01:36:52.800] the United States Supreme Court, [01:36:54.719] >> you know, uh between there and the heart [01:36:56.400] senate office building right across the [01:36:58.480] front windows looked right out at the [01:36:59.840] capital building. So we set up uh there [01:37:02.880] the Washington and the religious staff [01:37:04.719] council. I was we set up six task [01:37:07.360] forces, you know, right off the start of [01:37:09.520] one to disarm nuclear weapons and [01:37:11.920] destroy them to get rid of them around [01:37:13.440] the world, feeding people, getting food [01:37:16.480] and stuff, environmental protection [01:37:18.400] stuff, other things that and I chaired [01:37:20.960] the task force on uh human rights and [01:37:24.400] criminal justice and uh in that capacity [01:37:28.239] uh I was bringing in resource people, [01:37:30.880] American Civil Liberties Union, you [01:37:32.880] know, the Benet Brit all these other [01:37:34.880] about religious liberty and all that. Uh [01:37:37.119] and I was chairing these meetings uh uh [01:37:40.719] once a month. Uh and then this couple [01:37:43.760] came in uh young young couple like early [01:37:47.360] 20s, you know, very very well-dressed, [01:37:50.000] very proper and they said they were from [01:37:52.080] the uh the uh Institute for Human [01:37:55.119] Rights. [01:37:56.080] >> And I was saying Institute for Human [01:37:58.400] Rights. I [laughter] said, “I’ve never [01:38:00.320] heard of that.” You know, [01:38:01.760] >> it sounds like so broad that it almost [01:38:03.440] sounds made up. [01:38:04.239] >> Yeah. Yeah. Well, turns out it was they [01:38:06.639] came in and so and and they kept asking [01:38:09.119] questions about psychiatrists. You know, [01:38:11.119] isn’t there some kind of we have to deal [01:38:12.719] with psychiatrists? You know, they’re [01:38:14.000] contaminating everybody’s brains and [01:38:15.840] manipulating them and all. And I was [01:38:17.360] saying, wait a second, uh I pulled them [01:38:20.239] aside and I said, “You guys are [01:38:22.239] scientologist, right?” [01:38:23.440] >> Yeah. Yeah. [01:38:24.159] >> Uh and they went, “Well, no, not I mean, [01:38:26.480] not officially. We’re not.” And I said, [01:38:27.679] “Look, I don’t care. It doesn’t bother [01:38:30.080] me. I said, you know, I just wanted to [01:38:32.400] know.” Uh they said well yes yeah we are [01:38:36.000] uh and uh they said uh would it be okay [01:38:38.480] for us still to be a resource person on [01:38:40.639] this particular issue of human rights [01:38:43.040] and psychiatry and all that and so I [01:38:45.280] said it doesn’t bother me. Uh, and then [01:38:47.679] after another two or three sessions, [01:38:49.119] they came back and said, you know, [01:38:50.480] couldn’t we become a member, an official [01:38:52.239] member of the Washington religious staff [01:38:54.159] council because they were trying to get [01:38:55.840] recognized by the IRS as a legitimate [01:38:58.719] religion, right? And so I went and [01:39:00.560] talked to Jim Hamilton, who’s head of [01:39:02.000] the National Council of Churches, and he [01:39:03.360] said, “No way. That’s not going to [01:39:05.360] happen, you know.” So I said, “That’s [01:39:07.520] not going to work, but you guys can stay [01:39:08.719] as a resource.” So we got uh they they [01:39:12.000] were pleased that I was doing this and I [01:39:14.719] was very open with them. Uh, and then, [01:39:17.040] uh, I was getting set to leave town one [01:39:19.199] morning and Father Davis, before we had [01:39:21.119] cell phones and stuff, so I stopped at [01:39:23.119] one of the pay booth and called the [01:39:24.719] office just check make sure everything [01:39:26.239] was okay because I was getting set to go [01:39:27.679] out of town. I said, “Boy, am I glad you [01:39:29.840] called. You know, the FBI has just [01:39:32.000] chainsawed the doors off the [01:39:33.520] international headquarters of Church of [01:39:35.280] Scientology here in Washington DC, and [01:39:38.000] they’ve chainsawed the doors off the [01:39:39.600] office in Los Angeles at the same [01:39:41.280] moment. and they’ve come swooping in [01:39:43.199] with a warrant uh in their they brought [01:39:45.520] in Xerox machines and they’re xeroxing [01:39:47.440] every single document in the entire [01:39:48.800] headquarters of the Church of [01:39:50.400] Scientology. Wow. And they they are [01:39:52.560] screaming to for you to come over there [01:39:54.000] to help them. So I drove over there uh [01:39:57.440] and they have these big, you know, mass [01:39:59.600] arrest vehicles and and everything all [01:40:01.760] around them and they’ve got the place [01:40:03.360] all taped off. And so I went over and [01:40:05.920] found Richard, the guy who was the legal [01:40:07.679] counsel for them. I said, “Okay, who’s [01:40:10.239] in charge here? get me to who’s in [01:40:11.760] charge. So, I found the guy and I said, [01:40:13.280] “Let’s see the warrant, you know, and I [01:40:15.679] looked at the warrant and it’s got a [01:40:17.440] whole big long list of things that they [01:40:19.440] were looking for.” Uh, and then at the [01:40:21.760] very bottom, it’s got a thing. It says, [01:40:23.840] “And any and all other evidence of any [01:40:27.600] uh federal or state crime, [01:40:30.560] >> an absolute general warrant, an absolute [01:40:33.040] general warrant, the very thing that [01:40:34.960] caused the Fourth Amendment to get put [01:40:36.560] into the Constitution.” True. And I [01:40:38.320] said, “Whoa.” I said, “Look at this [01:40:39.920] thing.” And so I took a copy of it and [01:40:42.480] went to the federal courts. Drove right [01:40:43.920] over to the federal courthouse and got [01:40:45.280] to see Judge Green. Said, “Take a read [01:40:47.360] of this thing.” I said, “You know, they [01:40:48.800] they’re sitting in they’re xeroxing all [01:40:50.960] the files and stuff for the church [01:40:52.239] scientology.” And and I said, “I want [01:40:54.880] immediate injunction, emergency [01:40:56.239] injunction. Stop them from doing this.” [01:40:58.000] He said, “Write it up and I’ll sign it.” [01:41:00.129] [laughter] So [01:41:00.880] >> So legally speaking, a warrant should be [01:41:02.639] within a very limited scope of exactly [01:41:04.639] what they’re looking for, the very thing [01:41:05.679] you’re looking for. uh and you have to [01:41:07.440] have a probable cause uh declaration to [01:41:10.159] declare that it’s more probable than not [01:41:11.679] that what you’re looking for is evidence [01:41:13.760] and fruit of a crime. Uh and they hadn’t [01:41:16.560] done any of that, you know. [01:41:18.159] >> Well, question. [01:41:19.199] >> So, that’s how I got that’s how I got [01:41:20.639] there. That’s how I found out from them [01:41:22.560] because what happened is uh is of course [01:41:25.760] I I go back and I deliver the court [01:41:27.440] order to the people and FBI has to [01:41:29.280] unpack everything and I put in the order [01:41:31.360] they had to return every single [01:41:32.639] document, every photo stat of every [01:41:34.159] single document, all the fingerprints [01:41:35.600] they took off the documents. I knew [01:41:37.360] enough to go down the whole list of how [01:41:38.880] to get extract every single thing they [01:41:40.960] had, right? Which is going to be helpful [01:41:42.560] when we’re doing the depositions of the [01:41:44.880] legacy group. Yeah. And so so so we we [01:41:48.159] did all that. they had to put everything [01:41:49.679] back and they were really pissed, you [01:41:51.440] know, the FBI guys. Uh, and so in the [01:41:54.480] the Church of Scientology was just [01:41:56.320] ecstatic that we had done this. And then [01:41:59.119] two weeks later, turns out the US [01:42:01.360] attorney issued a subpoena for the top [01:42:03.280] 12 members of the Church of Scientology [01:42:05.440] in New York State [01:42:07.199] >> uh and ordered them all to come into a [01:42:09.119] grand jury, which they were going to go [01:42:10.400] after them. They called me. I flew up to [01:42:13.600] New York or drove up to New York [01:42:14.960] actually uh and filed a a motion to get [01:42:17.600] an injunction against them on the [01:42:19.360] grounds that it was violative of the [01:42:21.280] first amendment rights of a church. They [01:42:22.880] couldn’t do that. You know, it violated [01:42:24.960] the the confessional and u won and [01:42:28.560] struck it down. Uh so they were totally [01:42:30.880] ecstatic. So, so for people that don’t [01:42:33.040] know about this early link between [01:42:36.159] project Stargate and Scientology, like [01:42:40.159] >> that’s something that people listening [01:42:41.760] might be like, “Okay, why is he talking [01:42:42.960] about Scientology? You’re [01:42:43.920] >> talking about Scientology.” [01:42:45.040] >> But there is a major link between all of [01:42:47.679] these early figures and the Church of [01:42:49.360] Scientology at least for a period of [01:42:51.119] time. So, we’re talking about Pat Price, [01:42:53.199] we’re talking about Hal Putoff, [01:42:55.440] you know. Yeah. So, catch catch people [01:42:57.600] up on that. [01:42:58.400] >> Well, so so anyway, what happened? I [01:43:00.239] didn’t know anything about it at that [01:43:02.000] stage. But what happened is they come [01:43:03.679] back to me and say that Elron Hubard uh [01:43:06.800] head of the Church of Scientology wants [01:43:08.800] me to become his lawyer uh for him and [01:43:11.360] his wife Susan. Uh and uh I said I said [01:43:16.320] uh well I said I said look I I’m busy [01:43:19.040] doing all kinds of tons of other things. [01:43:20.560] I can’t really probably do it. said, but [01:43:22.719] I said as a condition preceded before [01:43:24.960] I’d even get to go meet with Iran [01:43:27.600] Hubard, I said I’d have to be given [01:43:29.520] permission to get access to every single [01:43:31.280] document uh of the Church of Scientology [01:43:33.679] anywhere in the world. Yeah. [01:43:34.960] >> Which I figured was a total non-starter, [01:43:36.880] right? Well, a week later, they come [01:43:38.719] back and they say, “Okay, it’s done.” [01:43:40.400] You know, uh what you we’re going to fly [01:43:42.400] you down to uh to Florida uh to the uh [01:43:45.760] to the big blue cube down there that [01:43:47.840] they’ve got down in u Clearwater, [01:43:50.800] Florida. Uh, so I call Bill Taylor who’s [01:43:54.719] the president of the Florida Association [01:43:56.639] Professional Private Investigators right [01:43:58.800] down there. And so Bill and I go into [01:44:01.280] the headquarters and we’re in there and [01:44:02.960] they’ve got the guardian of the the [01:44:04.800] church, church guardian office, which is [01:44:07.199] their security people for the entire [01:44:09.520] United States there and the [01:44:11.199] international guardian for the whole [01:44:12.960] international church of Scientology. and [01:44:15.360] they’re there and the the uh the the [01:44:18.239] head guardian for the international [01:44:19.679] office says to me, “So so what do you [01:44:21.360] want to see?” And I said, “Well, first [01:44:24.000] thing I’d want to see is my file.” [01:44:26.159] >> Mhm. [01:44:27.119] >> File you got on me? Well, the American [01:44:29.440] guy goes, “Well, no, we uh we No, we [01:44:32.239] don’t.” And I said, “Excuse me?” I said, [01:44:34.159] “Are you trying to tell me that you’re [01:44:35.600] asking me to be the lawyer for Alon [01:44:37.199] Harvard and you don’t have a file on [01:44:38.480] me?” So the international guy says, “Go [01:44:41.440] get him the file.” [snorts] So they go [01:44:43.440] and get the file, right? So, Bill, Bill [01:44:45.600] Taylor and I, Bill Taylor and I just sat [01:44:47.679] there, you know, for sitting there [01:44:48.960] waiting waiting for him to come back and [01:44:50.560] I don’t know, 15, 20 minutes just to say [01:44:52.400] a word until he came back and he brings [01:44:54.480] it back and I looked all through it, you [01:44:56.239] know, and they got photographs of me in [01:44:57.760] meetings and all this stuff. [01:44:59.679] >> So, I said, “Okay, I just wanted to make [01:45:01.840] sure that it was accurate.” Uh, and so [01:45:04.560] the so the national guy is a dead man [01:45:07.199] sitting there [laughter] basically from [01:45:08.480] this point on, but the international guy [01:45:10.560] says, “Okay, [clears throat] what do you [01:45:11.679] want to see?” I said,“I want to see the [01:45:13.920] three most sensitive files in the entire [01:45:16.719] world.” [01:45:17.920] >> uh that in your judgment as the the [01:45:20.480] chief guardian. And he went, “Oh shit.” [01:45:24.320] He said, “I say and and I’ll wait.” So [01:45:26.480] you get him. And so off he goes. So [01:45:30.480] we’re sitting there with the dead man, [01:45:31.760] you know, [laughter] for like 15 minutes [01:45:33.360] waiting, you know, not a word. And then [01:45:35.360] the guy comes back and he pushes the [01:45:37.520] files over to me. Uh and the first file [01:45:40.239] that he gave to me uh was all the [01:45:42.639] reports from Ingo Swan [01:45:44.560] >> that Ingo was uh high level clear. It [01:45:48.340] [snorts] turns out to four uh and uh and [01:45:52.080] he uh was one of the main uh remote [01:45:55.840] viewers and he was filing reports on [01:45:58.560] everything that was going on in Star [01:46:00.719] inside Stargate. Uh, and all the stuff [01:46:03.360] about Pat Price and all the stuff they [01:46:05.040] did, all the stuff about being, you [01:46:06.480] know, be able to go to thing, look [01:46:07.840] inside files and read files from a [01:46:09.760] distance and all that. I don’t know if [01:46:10.880] you’re familiar with Oh, yeah. Yeah. [01:46:12.400] Okay. So, he’s so he’s showing me all [01:46:14.080] that stuff. I’m going, “Wow, I didn’t [01:46:16.880] know anything about that, you know, and [01:46:18.400] this is 1977 [01:46:20.239] and there it is, you know, laying out [01:46:21.920] all the activity that they’re engaged [01:46:23.520] in, you know.” Uh, and then then the [01:46:26.400] second file he showed me, well, the one [01:46:28.960] of the things in in the first file, not [01:46:30.880] only that thing where where Pat Price [01:46:33.360] was able to go into the building and [01:46:34.960] into the office and into the fi files [01:46:36.800] and read them, [01:46:38.000] >> but turns out that uh here comes a big [01:46:41.679] one for you. Yeah. [01:46:42.719] >> Uh, that they could show Pat Price a [01:46:46.080] photograph of a Russian boomer submarine [01:46:49.840] and say, “Where is it? [01:46:54.560] And you could just [01:46:56.000] >> longitude, latitude down to the minute [01:46:58.639] and second [01:46:59.840] >> depth. [01:47:01.600] Okay. Uh, and there’s the report. It [01:47:04.960] shows me that he did it. And it turns [01:47:08.159] out that right up over the Boomer [01:47:11.119] submarine [01:47:12.639] was a UFO. [01:47:14.560] Whoa. Okay. Just hovering and tracking [01:47:18.000] the the submarine like that. So I went, [01:47:21.679] “Whoa. Uh, that’s a Hummer.” [01:47:23.760] >> And there were pictures of this. [01:47:24.960] >> Uh, no. Or just had the report. It had [01:47:27.280] the report in it. No photographs. [01:47:29.360] >> Okay. Uh, and I said, “Wow, that’s a now [01:47:32.239] that [laughter] that’s pretty pretty [01:47:33.920] serious business, you know, the capa [01:47:35.760] with the capacity both to be able to [01:47:37.119] read files at a distance and to, you [01:47:39.600] know, monitor their submarines.” [01:47:42.080] And and uh, he said, uh, so then he [01:47:44.800] said, “But there’s a second file.” And [01:47:46.960] he gave me the second file. And I said, [01:47:49.600] “Wow. Uh, what’s this? It turns out they [01:47:52.480] took Pat Price uh up to a facility in [01:47:57.840] central Canada, South Central Canada [01:48:00.719] along the border uh in this little [01:48:03.199] building, a little like domed building. [01:48:05.840] It looked like a little observatory. [01:48:07.280] This says uh and they got these big uh [01:48:10.000] communication dishes on the top. Uh, and [01:48:12.800] they have Pat Price come in and sit down [01:48:14.560] in this chair and they put this helmet [01:48:16.800] on him. Uh, and they have him, uh, [01:48:20.000] project a telepathic message. Uh, and [01:48:23.679] then they turn the little, uh, [01:48:25.840] communication dishes down on the [01:48:28.159] northern the northern peninsula of [01:48:30.639] Michigan, which were there, and they [01:48:33.119] focus the the the communication dishes [01:48:35.679] there. And Pat Price is told to send out [01:48:38.080] the message that you are to file your [01:48:40.880] federal income tax forms for next year. [01:48:43.920] >> What? [01:48:44.320] >> In this little nowhere town post office [01:48:47.119] box uh in West Virginia. [01:48:49.600] >> Okay. [01:48:51.119] And 80% of the people on the peninsula [01:48:53.440] did it. [01:48:54.080] >> So So when you say they had him do it, [01:48:56.239] Stargate had him do this or Okay. [01:48:58.000] >> It was a Stargate program. [01:48:59.440] >> So yeah. So, for just to take a step [01:49:01.199] back for most people who watch this [01:49:02.960] channel, they know that I’ve been deep [01:49:04.560] down the rabbit hole of Project [01:49:05.840] Stargate. I’ve, like I said, I’ve talked [01:49:07.600] to some of the remote viewers, but Pat [01:49:09.280] Price is like this OG. When it comes to [01:49:11.440] the OG original remote viewers, it’s Pat [01:49:13.520] Price and Ingo Swan. Like, they’re the [01:49:15.440] two considered the very best. Ingoing [01:49:18.239] basically established all the protocols [01:49:20.080] that were then taught to the Fort Me [01:49:21.679] guys. But Pat Price is sort of [01:49:23.600] >> broke mold. [01:49:24.480] >> Yeah. Poured right through. But Patric [01:49:27.199] is this sort of like mythical figure [01:49:29.199] because he has an untimely strange depth [01:49:32.480] where um so first of all as you pointed [01:49:35.119] out they’re both [01:49:36.960] >> almost like two timing for the Church of [01:49:39.040] Scientology at one point that seems to [01:49:41.360] come to an end. The CIA brings Pat Price [01:49:44.719] directly into their orbit. He leaves [01:49:47.600] project Stargate and then sort of goes [01:49:49.840] black. And from my understanding even to [01:49:52.719] this day when you try to like a lot of [01:49:55.199] the documents having to do with Pat [01:49:57.119] Price have not been declassified and I [01:49:59.280] and I think maybe foyers have been [01:50:00.880] rejected about about him as well. [01:50:03.440] Absolutely. So what do you think? First [01:50:05.760] of all, continue the story because I [01:50:06.960] want to hear we’ll get all the files. [01:50:08.960] >> Yeah. Okay. Okay. [01:50:09.679] >> We’ll get all those files. [01:50:10.800] >> Okay. [01:50:11.199] >> Yeah. I mean and I’ve seen the files. [01:50:14.239] >> The ones that are still classified too. [01:50:16.400] >> Yes. Uh and so that so uh and that was [01:50:21.199] uh I was kind of astonished that they’ve [01:50:23.920] got that capacity to be able to to uh [01:50:27.119] amp up [01:50:28.400] >> what whatever that telepathic [01:50:30.719] communication mechanism is that takes [01:50:33.920] place that they’ve got some technology. [01:50:36.880] Well, it turns out that almost certainly [01:50:38.719] that helmet is the helmet that they got [01:50:40.960] at Roswell that [snorts] was in the [01:50:42.880] craft that that uh that actually uh [01:50:46.239] Colonel uh Corso talked about. Yeah. [01:50:49.040] >> Didn’t didn’t talk much about it, but it [01:50:51.199] was there and they assumed that was the [01:50:53.280] helmet by means of which they piloted [01:50:55.840] the craft telepathically. [01:50:58.480] >> Okay. Wow. That’s that’s that’s quite a [01:51:00.480] claim. That’s incredible. Yeah. So, so [01:51:03.199] that’s the second file. have Christ [01:51:05.119] projecting his consciousness. [01:51:06.880] >> That’s right. [01:51:07.280] >> Uh to do and they they just did that to [01:51:09.600] see if it would work basically because [01:51:11.280] it seemed like [01:51:12.080] >> all I do is know they took him there and [01:51:13.920] did it and had the record of it and uh [01:51:16.719] he obviously told I guess it must have [01:51:20.639] told Ingo about it because it was a file [01:51:23.760] from Ingo [01:51:24.960] >> about what they had done. [01:51:26.080] >> Okay. [01:51:26.560] >> You know, and then they showed me the [01:51:28.719] third file. Yeah. Uh and I said that’s [01:51:31.360] it. I’m out. I’m I’m not going to do it, [01:51:34.320] you know. [01:51:35.199] >> So, what was the third file? [01:51:36.719] >> It was their fair game file. [01:51:38.480] >> Okay. Which is [01:51:39.920] >> assassination file. [01:51:40.960] >> Oh, wow. Wow. [01:51:43.440] >> Of anybody who betrays the church. [01:51:46.880] And I said, that’s not going to happen. [01:51:49.040] And then they’re, oh, come on. You know, [01:51:50.639] the Catholic Church does it, you know, [01:51:52.159] the CIA does it. And I like that. I [01:51:54.000] said, hey, yeah, but I’m not responsible [01:51:56.719] for them, you know. So, I’m not going to [01:51:58.800] do that, you know. I’m not going to [01:52:00.239] participate in that at all. And so I [01:52:01.920] just got him worked out. [01:52:03.280] >> That’s incredible. Were you were you [01:52:05.599] worried for yourself at that point? [01:52:07.199] >> No. [01:52:08.239] >> No, [01:52:08.800] >> man. [01:52:09.760] >> Yeah, that’s that’s spooky stuff. And [01:52:11.840] yeah, and I mean there’s even part of me [01:52:13.440] to this day that’s reluctant to want to [01:52:15.280] talk about it because they are so [01:52:16.639] cutthroat in who they go after when it [01:52:18.960] comes to their who they consider to be [01:52:20.719] their adversaries. But but yeah, at some [01:52:22.960] point it seems like [01:52:23.920] >> so do we. [01:52:24.960] >> I mean, so does the Central Intelligence [01:52:27.199] Agency. And not only that, but they [01:52:28.800] target United States senators, you know, [01:52:31.440] uh, and members of Congress. So, I mean, [01:52:34.000] you know, that they are afraid of them. [01:52:36.880] The the members of Congress are [01:52:38.560] literally afraid of the CIA, uh, and the [01:52:42.159] the offtheshelf operations that they [01:52:44.560] engage in. You know, they’ve got and [01:52:46.320] this that’s they get what’s coming to [01:52:48.159] them because, you know, they’ve been [01:52:49.520] kind of completely reticent in allowing [01:52:52.080] allowing this to go on that. They know [01:52:53.840] that the CIA is assassinating foreign [01:52:55.679] heads of state. They know that they’re [01:52:57.520] assassinating people and blackmailing [01:52:59.520] people and torturing people and [01:53:01.599] everything else and they say, “Oh, it’s [01:53:03.280] kind of okay, you know, as long as [01:53:04.719] they’re doing it to somebody else, you [01:53:06.639] know, but that’s what you get, you know, [01:53:08.960] and and that’s what’s happened.” So they [01:53:10.800] they target, you know, that we we know [01:53:14.239] details of the targeting of Frank Church [01:53:16.800] they targeted, you know. [01:53:18.239] >> Yeah. Frank Church was unseated [01:53:20.800] immediately after his next election [01:53:22.639] after chairing the the Church Committee, [01:53:24.400] the Select Committee on Intelligence [01:53:25.679] Abuse. You know, they they poured money [01:53:27.840] into his uh Senate race in Idaho, you [01:53:32.639] know, and we tracked the money came [01:53:34.400] right out of the Nugan Han Bank in in [01:53:36.400] Australia through two South African [01:53:38.719] banks in into the election and spent [01:53:42.960] millions of dollars publicizing the fact [01:53:45.199] that Frank Church supported the Equal [01:53:46.960] Rights Amendment. wild, [01:53:48.800] >> you know, and that he supported the [01:53:50.800] regulation of automatic weapons, [01:53:53.040] >> you know, and they just pounded away at [01:53:54.880] him and bounced him right out of office. [01:53:56.560] Did the same thing to Dick Clark from [01:53:58.080] Iowa for uh Senator Dick Clark, who’s [01:54:00.719] opposed to their covert operations in in [01:54:02.960] Africa. Did it also to uh uh uh [01:54:07.920] uh uh what’s his name? uh buy Birch Pie [01:54:11.760] out of Indiana, [01:54:13.040] >> you know, and bounced them out because [01:54:15.040] they were opposed to uh certain illegal [01:54:17.760] activities that the CIA was engaged in [01:54:19.520] and they turned them out of office just [01:54:21.280] like that. And the senators know that. [01:54:24.639] >> Yeah. Senators know that. [01:54:26.320] >> So you so you come into contact way back [01:54:28.719] in the 70s with the reality of these [01:54:30.719] like psychical programs. But so so [01:54:33.440] what’s your your next contact with the [01:54:36.000] reality of this of these sigh op not SCO [01:54:39.599] ops but sigh operations or psychotronic [01:54:42.719] operations? It was the uh it was the [01:54:45.520] well I knew I knew that from all the [01:54:48.639] information about direct contacts cuz [01:54:50.960] when I was legal counsel for John Mack [01:54:53.840] uh at Harvard uh when he got dragged up [01:54:56.480] in front of the uh faculty committee, [01:54:58.719] you know, I ended up becoming legal [01:55:00.480] counsel for the his peer group, the [01:55:02.560] project on extraordinary experience [01:55:04.480] research and they were doing lots of [01:55:06.800] research on psychic power. Okay. uh in [01:55:10.560] addition to the UFO stuff that he was [01:55:13.119] that that that uh Karen Wlowski who was [01:55:15.679] the executive director there wanted to [01:55:17.760] have other things that they were looking [01:55:19.760] at other phenomenon and so the sigh [01:55:22.719] phenomenon that they had encountered [01:55:24.320] that John had encountered in his [01:55:26.639] interview of all the experiencers uh [01:55:29.599] knew that this was going on and so that [01:55:32.480] they had broadened out their uh their uh [01:55:35.599] scope uh from just UFO stuff to these [01:55:38.800] other kind of psychic [01:55:40.320] activities that people engaged in [01:55:42.639] >> and so I got to see a lot of that [01:55:44.639] information about what they were doing [01:55:46.719] in there. So I encountered that uh and [01:55:49.679] so that I was really interested in the [01:55:51.920] fact that they that they had this kind [01:55:53.760] of dual agenda of the UFO phenomenon and [01:55:57.119] all of this other sigh phenomenon of [01:55:59.360] human beings being able to do these kind [01:56:01.440] of extraordinary things. Uh and so right [01:56:04.000] from that point from 1994 to 2004 when [01:56:07.280] John got killed uh uh accidentally to [01:56:11.440] make it clear uh but uh that you know I [01:56:14.639] was kind of aware of all of that stuff [01:56:17.040] that was going on. And so when when I [01:56:19.599] was contacted uh later in 2021 [01:56:23.440] by uh Lou Alzando uh to become his [01:56:26.800] attorney uh and I started you know [01:56:29.199] getting to talk with with Lou in in some [01:56:31.840] depth you know he started telling me [01:56:34.000] about uh these other [01:56:36.880] >> aspects of the program. Okay. uh one of [01:56:39.679] which was this sigh phenomena because I [01:56:41.760] would ask him I said look at what’s [01:56:43.679] what’s the story on the these craft [01:56:46.080] being telepathically [01:56:47.920] uh navigated and stuff like that because [01:56:49.599] I’ve got all kinds of information about [01:56:51.199] that uh and uh and uh I I can’t go into [01:56:55.840] great depths about he because he was [01:56:57.760] extremely careful [01:56:59.119] >> not to reveal to me anything that he [01:57:01.760] wasn’t authorized to reveal to me. I [01:57:04.639] don’t know what the dynamic is by means [01:57:06.800] of which he may have been author because [01:57:08.480] I know he was authorized to tell things [01:57:10.080] to Congress [01:57:11.679] >> uh and uh in the context of my [01:57:13.840] representing him and going to the [01:57:15.679] inspector general and stuff. Uh I’m not [01:57:18.719] aware of whether he was authorized to [01:57:20.880] tell me things that uh that others [01:57:23.760] wouldn’t know about, but uh I was able [01:57:26.880] to find out about him, [clears throat] [01:57:28.560] you know, because I got to meet [01:57:30.239] everybody else. He introduced me to Dave [01:57:31.920] Grush, introduced me to Carl Nell, you [01:57:34.080] know, I got to to meet all of the I got [01:57:37.119] to meet virtually everybody. [01:57:38.480] >> Yeah. [01:57:39.040] >> Okay. And so what I do is I tend to talk [01:57:42.000] to them, [01:57:42.560] >> right? [01:57:43.280] >> And try to figure out where their [01:57:44.800] boundaries are. [01:57:45.520] >> Yeah. You’re synthesizing information [01:57:47.040] from lots of sources. And what what kind [01:57:49.280] of uh authority do they have to talk to [01:57:51.520] me, you know, because obviously there [01:57:54.239] was a reason that he called me as [01:57:56.560] distinct from, you know, 10,000 other [01:57:58.639] lawyers, you know, because I’d been the [01:58:00.800] legal counsel for the Steven Greer’s [01:58:02.800] disclosure project for 20 years. [01:58:04.719] >> Yeah. uh was at the time when Lou [01:58:07.181] [clears throat] called me and uh so uh [01:58:10.960] that’s that’s uh I was aware of this all [01:58:14.000] the time that this was an important [01:58:16.239] dimension of this whole thing uh [01:58:19.626] [clears throat] and and I knew I knew uh [01:58:21.920] from uh Corso uh with Paola Harris who [01:58:28.159] was very close to to Philip Corso. Okay. [01:58:30.719] >> You know, had lots and lots of details [01:58:32.560] about Philip Corso. And Philip Corso, [01:58:35.119] you know, had recovered this helmet. Uh, [01:58:39.040] and that he never that that never went [01:58:42.719] into any private corporations, you know, [01:58:45.760] the other stuff did. The night night [01:58:47.679] vision goggles, you know, the uh the [01:58:50.239] fiber optics uh he was allowed to give [01:58:53.280] out to other uh aerospace corporations. [01:58:56.639] They did the the Kevlar the Kevlar vest [01:58:59.520] stuff that all that ca all that came [01:59:01.360] from Roswell uh crash uh but they didn’t [01:59:05.119] the the mysterious thing the helmet [01:59:07.679] didn’t go anywhere as far as I knew. He [01:59:10.719] never talked about it and I actually got [01:59:12.800] to look at the one that not not only his [01:59:15.280] day after Roswell book but he he wrote a [01:59:18.320] book in Italian [01:59:20.800] >> that was barred from being distributed [01:59:23.360] in the United States. [01:59:24.400] >> Okay. I didn’t know that. And so that [01:59:26.639] there’s this Italian diary like that he [01:59:29.520] wrote uh that talks about the helmet uh [01:59:33.040] and that and his his conviction that [01:59:35.599] this was the source of navigating the [01:59:37.360] craft. Okay. Uh and so that that’s uh uh [01:59:41.040] so that’s how I got familiar with it to [01:59:42.880] begin with. U and as it turns out it [01:59:45.760] becomes more and more and more central [01:59:51.280] >> uh to the entire phenomenon. [01:59:54.560] >> Yeah. So, so you think and you think [01:59:58.400] that was the same helmet that Pat Price [02:00:00.159] used to do this operation to project his [02:00:04.480] >> or maybe it was derivative technology. [02:00:06.400] >> That’s I say I’m not sure that they have [02:00:08.719] been able to figure out how to do it. [02:00:10.800] >> Yeah. [02:00:11.440] >> Technologically, but because they had [02:00:13.440] the original. [02:00:14.320] >> Mhm. [02:00:14.960] >> And so that my sense was that that’s [02:00:17.040] what that was. So that they had been [02:00:19.119] given access to it uh to experiment with [02:00:22.320] what could be done about it. So the [02:00:24.159] other major piece of this of course is [02:00:25.840] now I I guess this is over a year ago at [02:00:28.159] this point is you have the revelations [02:00:29.599] of Jake Barber saying like not only is [02:00:33.119] sigh as we all as anybody who’s into UFO [02:00:35.679] lore knows not only is that central to [02:00:37.920] the way these beings seem to communicate [02:00:39.679] and maybe even pilot the craft but no [02:00:42.159] this is a real thing within the [02:00:44.480] militaryindustrial complex and [02:00:46.239] intelligence agencies and military in [02:00:49.040] terms of there are psionic assets or um [02:00:52.000] whatever they’re actually call. I get [02:00:53.599] the sense that that’s probably not the [02:00:54.960] actual terminology, but anyway, that [02:00:57.040] they’re involved somehow in this legacy [02:01:00.080] program effort to down and retrieve and [02:01:03.360] reverse engineer uh you know, NHI [02:01:06.880] technology and you seem to also think [02:01:10.960] >> that that is true. [02:01:12.320] >> Oh, yes. Okay. [02:01:13.360] >> I’m positive that’s true. [02:01:15.040] >> How are you positive? [02:01:18.239] because I’ve talked to the guys that [02:01:19.760] have been involved in [02:01:20.560] >> like actual psionic asset guys. Okay. [02:01:23.840] >> And and and what did they tell you [02:01:26.400] >> that uh [02:01:28.560] it’s it’s it’s interesting because [02:01:30.480] they’re the they the the project started [02:01:34.000] out being interested primarily in the uh [02:01:38.159] the telepathic communication with the [02:01:40.639] craft. You know how Yeah. in that they [02:01:43.440] discovered that that in the craft that [02:01:46.960] uh in addition to the fiber optics that [02:01:49.199] are in the craft that they’re that [02:01:52.320] they’ve uh that the ET people obviously [02:01:57.199] mastered the stem cell technology and [02:02:00.239] that they’ve got stem cell uh in the [02:02:03.199] craft. [02:02:03.760] >> Oh wow. [02:02:04.239] >> That they’ve got dendrites [02:02:06.400] >> uh and synapses uh that are actually [02:02:09.360] from the brains of the ET people. [02:02:12.159] They’ve done their stem cell project [02:02:14.480] into generating synapses and dendrites [02:02:17.679] into the craft so that it’s [02:02:19.440] semi-scentient. The craft that accounts [02:02:21.760] for this feeling that people get when [02:02:23.280] they see the craft. Sometimes the thing [02:02:25.440] seems to be alive in some way. Uh and uh [02:02:28.639] and so that that that we know about uh [02:02:32.400] and uh and but but more importantly [02:02:37.360] more importantly [02:02:39.440] uh the uh method by which they actually [02:02:43.920] transport [02:02:45.760] from their star system to ours [02:02:49.840] isn’t linear. [02:02:52.159] >> That makes sense. Yeah. It’s it’s [02:02:54.159] through uh it’s through a form of remote [02:02:58.159] projection you know like Ingo Swan for [02:03:00.080] example in in penetration talks about uh [02:03:03.360] projecting conceptually himself up onto [02:03:05.920] the surface of the moon. [02:03:06.800] >> Yeah. Like billocating [02:03:07.920] >> and then billocating up there some sort [02:03:10.320] of and there’s some sort of a plasma [02:03:13.119] type of phenomenon that occurs because [02:03:16.000] people can see him there. [02:03:18.719] He he became aware of the fact that the [02:03:20.480] beings that he saw on the surface of the [02:03:22.320] moon became aware of the fact that he [02:03:24.320] was there. So there’s some kind of [02:03:26.080] phenomenological [02:03:27.760] thing that’s happening there, right? Uh [02:03:29.920] and what it appears to be true here is [02:03:33.119] that this is the means by which they [02:03:35.280] actually transport that it’s not just [02:03:37.840] super fast, not just you know super [02:03:40.400] luminal. Uh what it is is that they are [02:03:43.440] able to direct their consciousness to a [02:03:47.440] particular location. Uh say at the edge [02:03:50.880] of our solar system [02:03:53.360] and then they’ve got some kind of what [02:03:55.360] they call psionic assist [02:03:58.320] >> is the actual program. There’s some sort [02:04:00.960] of technology that they have that is [02:04:03.840] able to uh ramp up whatever [snorts] the [02:04:07.440] phenomenon phenomenon is of the actual [02:04:10.080] biologically generated phenomenon of uh [02:04:13.440] of this uh uh directed intention that [02:04:16.800] can collapse the wave function, right? [02:04:19.840] and that there’s some sort of u [02:04:22.400] technological psionic assist that they [02:04:26.000] can focus on a particular location and [02:04:28.400] they can ramp up the the phenomenon to [02:04:30.960] the extent of transporting the ship bang [02:04:33.760] bang like that. Uh and it just [02:04:36.560] materialize dematerializes and [02:04:38.400] materializes almost instantaneously at [02:04:41.360] the other location. Uh and that’s the [02:04:43.760] one that’s freaking them out totally. [02:04:46.000] >> Well, yeah. I mean, [02:04:47.040] >> they’re totally freaked out by that. [02:04:48.400] Yeah, if that exists, I mean, that is a [02:04:50.000] godlike ability on the level of [02:04:52.480] something that I I mean, of travel. [02:04:54.159] >> Yeah. I mean, the these are like the [02:04:55.440] kinds of like onlogical shock I think [02:04:57.440] people don’t think about when they think [02:04:59.520] about, you know, full-blown disclosure [02:05:01.679] is, you know, not only is it advanced [02:05:03.920] technology, advanced ships, like nuts [02:05:06.400] and bolts stuff. It’s really our [02:05:08.239] understanding of reality itself that [02:05:10.560] will be completely turned on its head in [02:05:13.040] that, you know, [02:05:14.159] >> we think this physical reality is real. [02:05:16.000] We think this body is real. But what [02:05:18.239] technologies like that imply is that [02:05:20.639] there’s a layer of reality that we’re [02:05:22.480] pretty much ignorant of as human beings [02:05:24.159] and that we lack the capacity to [02:05:25.760] interact with at least most of us [02:05:27.360] >> except for the spiritual mythologies of [02:05:31.119] of the ability you know the famous Sai [02:05:33.199] Baba story. The famous Sai Baba story [02:05:35.520] when Sai Bababa uh generated this uh [02:05:39.760] shocki you know that little powder that [02:05:41.840] the that the mystics knew. Uh yeah like [02:05:44.480] a this is like a city right? Yes, it’s a [02:05:47.040] city and they can generate this kind of [02:05:49.440] powder and they sprinkle it places and [02:05:51.040] they sprinkle on people and uh and some [02:05:53.520] person that experienced that with Sai [02:05:56.239] Bababa said well you know that’s pretty [02:05:58.000] impressive but a lot of other saints can [02:06:00.080] do that you know what about being able [02:06:02.480] to manifest something more sophisticated [02:06:05.280] and Sai Bababa said like what he said [02:06:08.560] how about a Swiss watch [laughter] [02:06:11.520] and Sai Baba rubbed his fingers together [02:06:13.360] like this and like that and then handed [02:06:15.040] him a Swiss watch. [02:06:16.239] >> Mhm. [02:06:17.440] >> The guy was completely flabbergasted. [02:06:19.760] Full Swiss watch. He looked at it, had [02:06:21.360] serial numbers on it, hold the whole [02:06:22.960] nine yards. Uh, and he took the watch [02:06:26.320] and ended up searching it out to find [02:06:28.560] out where it was manufactured and went [02:06:30.560] to Switzerland to the shop where it was [02:06:32.639] actually put together and goes into the [02:06:35.199] shop and says, “Uh, he hands the thing [02:06:37.679] to the shop owner and he said, “Is is [02:06:40.079] this one of your watches?” Guy looks at [02:06:42.079] the thing, says, “Yes, yeah, this is he [02:06:44.400] said.” And so the guy says, “Well, where [02:06:47.280] whatever happened to it, this watch?” He [02:06:48.960] said, “You know,” he said, “This is [02:06:50.239] really amazing, this watch.” He said, “I [02:06:51.760] remember.” He said, “Some fellow with [02:06:54.960] big hair, uh, you know, this kind of [02:06:57.280] saffron robe came walking into the store [02:07:00.560] and he handed me these little cubes, [02:07:02.880] gold cubes like this and and bought this [02:07:05.840] watch.” And it turns out it was at the [02:07:07.920] exact same moment, [02:07:10.239] >> Whoa. [02:07:11.199] >> that he manifested it. So the idea is he [02:07:13.360] was like billocating somehow. [02:07:15.199] >> Yeah. [02:07:15.760] >> What where does this story come from? [02:07:18.079] >> It’s a Sai Baba story. It’s a famous Sai [02:07:19.920] Baba story. [02:07:20.719] >> Okay. [02:07:21.119] >> You know uh and uh and so that uh so [02:07:24.719] that the the the nexus here which is [02:07:26.960] what we’re getting to [02:07:28.480] >> is the nexus between the capacity of our [02:07:31.760] human species to be able to do these [02:07:35.119] things. You know because you know it [02:07:37.119] wasn’t just Jesus of Nazareth that [02:07:39.440] displayed these kind of capabilities. [02:07:41.440] you know, the Buddha in in Lasu and the [02:07:44.079] other major prophets. Well, they turned [02:07:47.679] out to be prophets because everybody was [02:07:49.280] freaked out the fact that they could do [02:07:50.719] these things and they built up this [02:07:52.639] entire kind of religious community [02:07:55.199] around them. Uh but and Tahard writes [02:07:58.800] about it. they hard to shut down, you [02:08:00.960] know, and and that he and he he was [02:08:03.840] implying throughout his writings that uh [02:08:06.880] that Jesus was a mutation [02:08:09.920] >> uh of where our human family is headed [02:08:14.320] >> uh teologically and biologically that [02:08:16.960] we’re evolving. you know we we’ve come [02:08:18.960] up out of homoids and you know in [02:08:21.199] Cromagnon and and Oropythecus and you [02:08:24.159] know we’ve come up to this thing uh [02:08:26.000] where we are now at the point of homo [02:08:27.760] sapiens and I you know homo sapiens are [02:08:31.199] all going to be dead someday just like [02:08:33.440] you don’t find chromagnan men running [02:08:35.440] around right now oropythecus [02:08:38.239] >> you know that they run their they run [02:08:40.159] their tour uh and then they evolve into [02:08:42.960] the next stage of our our teological [02:08:45.679] unfolding right Uh and so we’re that [02:08:49.040] that this really interesting thing [02:08:50.880] happened back in 1968 in May of 1968 [02:08:54.079] that I had graduated from the college [02:08:56.079] Harvard College in ’ 67 gone up to the [02:08:58.560] law school and I got word that uh that [02:09:02.239] uh uh the uh uh Crane Britain who was [02:09:05.920] the head of the department of [02:09:07.840] intellectual history for Harvard [02:09:10.000] University uh was going to be retiring. [02:09:12.960] >> Okay. [02:09:13.280] >> Uh and he’d been teaching there for like [02:09:15.360] 50 years. [02:09:17.520] uh and uh and uh I I knew all kinds of [02:09:20.800] guys that had taken various courses from [02:09:22.560] him, right? And uh and he had been asked [02:09:25.520] to uh speak about in his final lecture [02:09:28.639] uh what the most important single [02:09:30.960] intellectual insight was that he had [02:09:34.800] encountered in his entire 50 years of of [02:09:37.760] this field. Uh and so he gathered to to [02:09:41.440] do his final lecture and men came from [02:09:44.239] all around the world. uh who had over [02:09:46.800] the past 50 years taken his courses at [02:09:48.880] different times because we were the last [02:09:51.040] allmale class in 1967 at Harvard under [02:09:54.800] 350 years. So they were like all men [02:09:57.864] [laughter] had come from all around the [02:09:59.840] world to come here to be at this final [02:10:01.920] lecture and they had to move it to a [02:10:03.760] bigger a big great bigger hall. So I was [02:10:06.719] there and he said uh I’ve been asked uh [02:10:09.920] to address uh here in my final lecture [02:10:12.400] the most important single intellectual [02:10:14.560] insight that I’ve really ever [02:10:16.639] encountered. He said this is easy. He [02:10:18.400] said said all of the I believe all the [02:10:20.800] greatest minds uh and thinkers that I’ve [02:10:22.960] encountered have come to the common [02:10:24.880] conclusion that our human species is [02:10:27.920] right on the brink of moving into the [02:10:32.000] next manifestation of our species that [02:10:35.520] we’ve come through and and homoerectus [02:10:38.719] and neand and you know and none of them [02:10:42.079] are around anymore. [02:10:43.360] >> Yeah. And there’ll come a point in time [02:10:44.960] when none of the homo homo sapiens will [02:10:47.360] be around. But there’s going to be the [02:10:49.199] whole next phase, he said. And that the [02:10:51.440] the factor that is going to be according [02:10:55.040] to these insights, the factor that’s [02:10:57.280] going to distinguish our homo sapien [02:10:59.920] species from the next it [02:11:03.199] integration of our species is going to [02:11:05.840] be a faculty. The development of a [02:11:08.560] faculty, [02:11:09.760] >> faculty like seeing and hearing [02:11:13.599] that have evolved up out of time [02:11:15.599] organically out of life living matter. [02:11:18.400] Resp like the eyeballs responsive to the [02:11:22.560] stimuli of the electric magnetic [02:11:25.280] vibration of light that have through [02:11:28.159] some sort of tropic force of drawn up [02:11:30.960] into material manifestation the eyeball [02:11:34.400] from into living uh creatures. He said [02:11:37.520] that uh in the same way with hearing [02:11:40.079] that you know that the electromagnetic [02:11:42.239] vibration of sound has its own [02:11:44.400] particular pitch and amplitude has has [02:11:46.880] drawn up into material manifestation the [02:11:49.520] complex hearing mechanism and that that [02:11:53.040] that is going on now. There is a new [02:11:54.880] faculty that is evolving in the human [02:11:56.719] family uh that is able to directly [02:11:59.840] immediately experientially [02:12:02.159] encounter the uh the bonding phenomenon [02:12:06.079] that bonds every single ultimately [02:12:08.079] irreducible integer of matter in the [02:12:09.840] entire physical universe into one [02:12:12.000] unified harmonic hole. And that by dent [02:12:15.119] of this direct experience [02:12:17.440] like seeing or hearing [02:12:19.599] >> uh that that you can through this [02:12:22.400] experience you can discern immediately [02:12:24.400] and experientially what form of conduct [02:12:28.000] human conduct either individual or [02:12:29.920] collective is either harmonious with or [02:12:32.960] disharmonious to the natural order of [02:12:35.760] the universe. [02:12:37.920] >> He said and that’s why so many of you [02:12:39.760] men refuse to go fight in this war. [02:12:42.320] >> Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, if you’re [02:12:44.320] tapped into this larger field of [02:12:45.920] consciousness, [02:12:46.880] >> it becomes absurd. Becomes absolutely [02:12:49.360] absurd to do the things that we do to [02:12:51.280] each other. [02:12:52.239] >> It doesn’t make any sense at all if you [02:12:54.800] have the adequate scope of reality. [02:12:57.840] >> Uh okay. Because I mean people almost [02:12:59.599] whatever else you can say about them, [02:13:01.119] they try with the exception of Trump [02:13:03.520] maybe, you know, they try to comport [02:13:05.520] their conduct with reality, [02:13:08.239] >> you know, uh because that’s the [02:13:09.920] reference they have. It’s the reference [02:13:11.760] we all have for what’s right and wrong. [02:13:13.760] >> Yeah. [02:13:14.400] >> You know, and and that’s what that was [02:13:15.920] what Crane Britain said. Uh and then I [02:13:18.480] think Tahard was aware of that. Yeah. [02:13:20.480] And Tahhard wrote about it and that’s [02:13:22.320] why he was banned. [02:13:23.840] >> Right. [02:13:24.320] >> He was banned by Ratzinger. [02:13:26.719] >> Ratzinger before he became Benedict the [02:13:29.280] 16th, the pope. [02:13:30.560] >> I didn’t know that. Ratzinger was the [02:13:32.480] head of the doctrine of the faith. [02:13:33.840] >> Wow. [02:13:34.239] >> And banned Tahart from publicly speaking [02:13:36.960] about it. For people that don’t know [02:13:38.400] him, he’s like this Jesuit intellectual [02:13:40.560] who’s talking about all of these really [02:13:42.480] advanced philosophical concepts like the [02:13:45.119] uh the noophere and like the idea that [02:13:47.280] the planet could be conscious that there [02:13:49.280] could be these larger consciousness [02:13:50.880] structures that human beings would [02:13:52.480] actually eventually evolve to tap into [02:13:55.199] and he was also open to things like life [02:13:56.800] on other planets and and things like [02:13:58.719] that. [02:13:59.280] >> That’s tear dean, [02:14:00.880] >> you know, and uh he was a [02:14:02.079] paleontologist. He actually discovered [02:14:03.920] pay king man. [02:14:05.199] >> Oh, interesting. So, so presumably [02:14:07.520] >> Jesuits are cool. [02:14:09.280] >> Yeah, [laughter] there’s definitely some [02:14:10.320] like Shardon is one of those thinkers [02:14:12.400] that I definitely want to read more of [02:14:14.159] because he was certainly ahead of his [02:14:15.520] time, not just for a Jesuit, but for for [02:14:17.199] anybody. That’s right. [02:14:18.079] >> Um, [02:14:19.199] >> but presumably, you’d have to think that [02:14:21.920] whatever these beings or entities are, [02:14:24.639] they must be more aware of this field. [02:14:26.560] They must be more aware of this maybe 8 [02:14:29.520] billion years long, [02:14:30.560] >> right? If they even have like a [02:14:32.639] conventional evolution, right? if if our [02:14:35.440] understanding of the the universe like [02:14:37.760] comports with our understanding of time [02:14:39.360] and all of that stuff. But um [02:14:41.840] >> so does that lead you to believe that [02:14:43.840] whatever these entities are these like [02:14:46.480] NHI are that they are benevolent then [02:14:50.000] cuz wouldn’t they also have a a better [02:14:52.159] understanding of this or do you think [02:14:53.440] that there’s a a mix of benevolent and [02:14:55.679] malevolent? I think that our our concept [02:14:58.079] of benevolence really has to do with the [02:15:01.679] the degree to which one is honestly uh [02:15:05.679] comporting your conduct in in harmony [02:15:09.280] with the nature of the universe. You [02:15:12.560] know that’s that’s the reference for [02:15:14.320] good and bad you know. So that and then [02:15:16.960] we attach the other adjectives to it is [02:15:18.960] benevolent. You know there a benevolent [02:15:21.199] person you know bene benefa you know [02:15:23.360] that they’re they’re doing good things. [02:15:25.199] Yeah. And good the difference between [02:15:26.880] good and bad is whether it’s harmonious [02:15:29.599] to uh with or or disharmonious to the [02:15:32.880] natural order of things. It’s it’s the [02:15:34.800] ultimate search for the reference the [02:15:36.159] normative reference for good and bad. [02:15:38.320] It’s the root of all ethics. Uh and [02:15:41.440] that’s that’s what this is about. And [02:15:43.199] that’s why it’s so uh tragic, literally [02:15:46.480] tragic to have the uh the people in, you [02:15:50.560] know, in the United States military and [02:15:51.920] intelligence community is, you know, [02:15:54.560] want to they they see this astonishing [02:15:57.199] opportunity right in front of them for [02:15:59.119] this extraordinary step of our whole [02:16:00.960] human family out into the stars and all [02:16:03.440] they can think of is trying to make [02:16:04.719] weapons out of it. You know, it’s the [02:16:06.320] old it’s the old Sufi saying, you know, [02:16:08.480] when a pickpocket meets a saint, all he [02:16:10.880] sees are his pockets. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. [02:16:13.760] Wow. Because because we are probably [02:16:16.320] running in the last I don’t know I’m [02:16:17.599] going to guess like 20 or so minutes we [02:16:19.679] probably have that we can be here. [02:16:21.440] >> Um a couple questions I definitely want [02:16:23.840] to get in is I want to go back to Pat [02:16:25.760] Price because because he’s just such a [02:16:27.599] fascinating figure to me. It’s a point [02:16:29.040] of personal interest all all of this [02:16:30.880] stuff. Um because you know it seems like [02:16:32.960] bar none [02:16:34.639] >> even Ingo it seemed like acknowledged [02:16:36.800] that he was one of the best if not the [02:16:39.280] best remote viewer. No, Ingo I talked to [02:16:41.359] Ingo Swan at length about this, you [02:16:43.359] know. I went and met him at his uh his [02:16:45.920] apartment in New York and spent the [02:16:48.000] whole day with him talking about this up [02:16:49.679] on his roof, you know. Uh and he was [02:16:52.559] perfectly clear that Pat Swan or that [02:16:54.800] Pat Price was the superior of all of [02:16:57.519] them. [02:16:57.760] >> Wow. Okay. So, what what do you think [02:17:00.000] what do you think happened to Pat Price? [02:17:01.599] And for people that that don’t know, he [02:17:03.679] kind of mysteriously passes away in Las [02:17:05.920] Vegas while he’s with um Russell Tar and [02:17:09.519] uh and Halutoff, right? Like he’s [02:17:11.679] visiting them. And he’s in this period [02:17:13.280] of time after he left Project Stargate [02:17:15.760] and he’s working directly for the CIA [02:17:18.319] and then he he either has a natural [02:17:21.040] heart attack and dies or something weird [02:17:23.439] happens and he’s like just taken off the [02:17:25.359] board by some force like could could [02:17:27.280] have been the Russians, could have been [02:17:28.399] the CIA, could have been the [02:17:29.439] Scientologists. [02:17:30.960] Do you have an opinion on this? [02:17:32.479] >> I don’t because I haven’t been tasked to [02:17:34.559] find out. [02:17:35.200] >> Yeah. [02:17:35.679] >> You know, uh, and so I don’t I don’t [02:17:38.240] guess or speculate at things, you know, [02:17:40.319] I’ve been very fortunate in in being [02:17:42.719] given the opportunity to investigate [02:17:45.280] very specific things professionally, you [02:17:47.840] know, in in the context. And of course, [02:17:49.439] that’s part of why we designed the [02:17:51.040] Cristic Institute is to be able to help [02:17:53.439] discern by ourselves what we’re going to [02:17:55.200] look at, right? You know, and the [02:17:56.800] cristic institute is named by Kai [02:17:59.920] Shardan. [02:18:00.800] >> Uh he refers to this force that bonds [02:18:03.200] every single ultimately irreducible [02:18:04.800] integer of matter in the universe into [02:18:06.880] one unified harmonic hole. He calls that [02:18:09.439] the cristic force. [02:18:10.960] >> Cool. [02:18:11.359] >> And that’s with our institute is the [02:18:12.800] cristic institute. [02:18:14.080] >> That’s how that was founded out of the [02:18:15.519] Jesuit headquarters in 1980 in [02:18:17.280] Washington. Uh and we we functioned and [02:18:20.559] did a whole bunch of different cases [02:18:22.080] including the Ron Contra case. [02:18:24.000] >> Yeah. They were the ones that that [02:18:26.080] generated the special prosecutor, got [02:18:28.080] the people indicted in the the Reagan [02:18:30.160] Bush administration. Uh and and George [02:18:32.719] Bush senior ordered the IRS to re revoke [02:18:37.040] our 501c3 tax exempt charter on the [02:18:40.160] grounds that we were engaged in [02:18:41.439] political activity against him and his [02:18:43.760] political allies. [02:18:45.040] >> Uh which we weren’t. What we were doing [02:18:47.280] is we were investigating criminal [02:18:48.960] activity uh and unconstitutional [02:18:52.319] conduct. it just happened to include [02:18:54.160] him, you know, and so when he decided [02:18:56.319] that he was going to run for reelection [02:18:57.840] in 1992, [02:18:59.760] uh, after having been elected in 1988 [02:19:01.920] after serving as vice president for [02:19:03.519] Reagan for the two terms, you know, uh, [02:19:06.160] we were publicizing all the information [02:19:08.000] that we knew about him and everybody [02:19:09.840] else. Yeah. and when he decided he was [02:19:12.000] going to run for a second term, he said, [02:19:14.479] “Well, we were interfering in a [02:19:16.240] candidate for elected office uh and that [02:19:19.040] we were spreading information about him [02:19:22.160] uh that was adverse to his his campaign [02:19:24.960] and accused us of engaging in political [02:19:27.040] activity which is prohibited to 501c3 [02:19:29.920] organizations.” Uh and so he contacted [02:19:32.880] the head of the IRS and told him to yank [02:19:35.840] our C3, [02:19:37.599] >> which they did. [02:19:38.479] >> Wow. [02:19:39.040] >> Yeah. And so it was interesting that [02:19:42.000] when they did it uh there was a group [02:19:44.559] out in California uh called the Romero [02:19:47.920] Foundation [02:19:49.280] >> uh that had been gathering money and [02:19:51.120] giving money to poor people and stuff [02:19:52.720] down in Latin America. Uh and uh when [02:19:55.680] they found out that that had happened, [02:19:57.359] they convened an emergency meeting of [02:19:59.200] their board uh and elected me to be [02:20:01.359] their president and general counsel and [02:20:03.840] elected Sarah Nelson, our executive [02:20:06.160] director and vice president to be their [02:20:07.920] executive director and vice president [02:20:09.680] and father Bill Davis who had been my [02:20:11.680] superior Jesuit headquarters who was our [02:20:13.760] secretary treasur. They elected him to [02:20:15.840] be the secretary treasurer and then they [02:20:17.680] all resigned [02:20:18.960] >> and uh and sent us all their files [02:20:20.776] [laughter] and that we became the Romero [02:20:23.040] Institute and the Romero Institute is [02:20:25.280] the 501c3 organization that is the [02:20:28.160] founder of the new paradigm institute. [02:20:30.800] >> Right. Yeah. [02:20:31.439] >> It’s a wholly integrated auxiliary [02:20:32.960] project of our Romero Institute. Uh and [02:20:36.479] that’s we just kept on operating. [02:20:39.120] >> So I’m not going to ask you to guess [02:20:40.479] because you’ve told me multiple times [02:20:42.392] [laughter] but um that you don’t I can [02:20:44.800] lay out the the schematic that you would [02:20:47.280] lay out certain kind of uh alternative [02:20:49.680] reasonable possibilities and and attach [02:20:52.720] probability projections to them. [02:20:54.800] >> Okay. Well, let me ask you it this way. [02:20:56.720] What do you think the probability is [02:20:58.720] that within the near future like let’s [02:21:00.240] just say the next [02:21:02.399] >> seven years? [02:21:03.040] >> Yeah. Yes. that we will get some [02:21:06.319] meaningful level of official disclosure [02:21:09.120] in terms of you know there is I mean [02:21:11.840] we’ve already had people come forward [02:21:13.359] and testify under oath there is NHI we [02:21:15.840] do have craft we do have bodies but like [02:21:18.319] that the people will have a level where [02:21:20.080] they’re satisfied to a degree where it [02:21:22.800] will be the prepundonderance of evidence [02:21:24.800] the the majority of people will say okay [02:21:28.000] yes we are not alone there are these [02:21:30.399] other beings of whatever I mean Even [02:21:33.680] even if we don’t know where they’re [02:21:35.040] from, just an official acknowledgement [02:21:37.600] with undeniable proof that there is a [02:21:40.319] presence here that is nonhuman, that is [02:21:42.399] advanced, that is [02:21:44.479] >> doing doing something. Do do you think [02:21:46.560] we’ll get that in a satisfactory way in [02:21:48.720] that length of time? [02:21:49.600] >> Yeah, within seven years we’ll have it [02:21:51.920] >> and it’s going to be a process. It’s [02:21:53.359] going to unfold over seven years. Uh [02:21:56.080] that’s what’s going on right now. Uh and [02:21:58.880] it’s happening. I mean these these kind [02:22:01.280] of earthshaking revelations that have [02:22:04.160] been made that we’re in the process [02:22:06.240] through the new paradigm institute of [02:22:07.920] getting this information out into the [02:22:09.840] hands of the people in a way that they [02:22:11.920] can understand it and try to understand [02:22:13.840] the context in which it exists. You know [02:22:16.479] uh but the the the fact is that the uh [02:22:18.880] that the process is underway right now. [02:22:21.760] We are the the four generations that are [02:22:25.600] alive right now are the ones that are [02:22:27.520] going through the disclosure process. Uh [02:22:29.840] and it’s going to happen, you know, and [02:22:31.680] it’ll be completed within 7 years once [02:22:34.240] once we get the actual official [02:22:36.800] confirmation uh by the the sitting [02:22:40.319] president, you know, and it won’t be [02:22:42.399] Trump. I don’t believe he’ll do that. [02:22:44.160] >> Yeah. Yeah. Coming full circle here [02:22:45.520] because we mentioned the the [02:22:46.720] >> I don’t I don’t think he’ll do that. I [02:22:48.479] think what he’ll try to do is he’ll try [02:22:50.160] to get the information and he’s so [02:22:52.640] completely self-interested and [02:22:54.479] transactional. He’s going to try to [02:22:56.479] figure out how he can benefit from it [02:22:58.319] >> before he’s just going to give it away [02:22:59.760] to everybody else, [02:23:01.040] >> you know, and then he’s going to send [02:23:02.640] his sons out trying to figure out how to [02:23:04.160] invest in the technology, you know, and [02:23:06.960] uh and and set up a Bitcoin that is [02:23:09.600] rooted in the market value of some of [02:23:12.399] the key technologies. [02:23:14.080] >> That’s what he’s going to do. [02:23:15.520] >> Yeah. Well, the qu I guess the question [02:23:17.600] would be from from somebody who’s more [02:23:19.600] optimistic and don’t don’t mistake me [02:23:21.280] for someone who’s more optimistic and I [02:23:23.200] mean I would accuse you of that. Yeah. [02:23:24.880] Yeah. But um but uh you could argue well [02:23:28.000] it they’re not mutually excl exclusive, [02:23:30.080] right? Like you he could frontr run [02:23:32.000] investments and stuff and then also [02:23:33.680] still actually release meaningful [02:23:35.680] information, but you don’t even think [02:23:36.960] that’s going to happen this this [02:23:38.479] administration. I think I think he’s [02:23:39.840] going to be desperately trying to uh [02:23:43.120] figure out how he can get personal [02:23:45.359] advantage from the information and he’s [02:23:47.840] going to try to get the people to [02:23:49.280] provide him the information in his [02:23:50.800] capacity as president. I think that his [02:23:53.600] uh his uh agency as president is going [02:23:57.680] downhill fast. I think that a lot of the [02:24:00.240] people, the general staff, actually the [02:24:02.479] military staff, the intelligence [02:24:04.319] community is now aware of the fact that [02:24:06.479] he is incredibly dangerous uh to their [02:24:10.080] own ambitions, you know, uh and uh and [02:24:13.280] that they’re aware of the model of [02:24:14.960] Hitler, you know, who was put into power [02:24:18.160] by major financial interests here in the [02:24:20.640] United States. They were Brown Brothers [02:24:22.240] Haramman, [02:24:23.200] >> you know, uh that actually financed the [02:24:25.520] construction of the international [02:24:26.640] headquarters of the Third Reich. [02:24:27.840] >> Oh, really? Yeah. Yeah. Uh and uh and [02:24:30.399] but he came off the leash, you know, and [02:24:33.120] and did what he did, you know, and [02:24:35.120] they’re concerned about that about this [02:24:37.600] with Trump. [02:24:38.720] >> Trump’s coming off the leash here. Uh [02:24:41.200] >> we are finding ourselves embroiled in [02:24:42.880] more and more conflict [02:24:44.720] >> with no with no plan adequate of of how [02:24:46.880] to get out of it. Uh not any clear [02:24:49.200] objective that they really have in doing [02:24:50.880] it. uh other than him exercising his ego [02:24:54.080] uh and struting his stuff and he’s now [02:24:56.080] got uh the blood taste in his mouth of [02:24:59.200] of deploying the military and stuff. [02:25:01.040] He’s going to got Cuba in his sights [02:25:02.960] next. Well, the other the other [02:25:05.120] possibility when it comes to the [02:25:06.399] disclosure, you know, conversation is [02:25:08.720] that there there’s an orthogonal thing [02:25:10.880] that occurs, right? A thing that is out [02:25:12.560] of his control, out of our control, and [02:25:14.399] it just makes itself known. And there’s [02:25:16.800] been speculation lately obviously you [02:25:18.560] know we’re we’re on the precipice of a [02:25:20.319] supposed uh revelation uh as forecasted [02:25:23.040] by Chris Bledsoe and by you know there’s [02:25:25.200] there’s a lot of things not and not just [02:25:26.640] from them percolating into the zeitgeist [02:25:29.040] claiming something’s going to occur in [02:25:30.479] 2026 2027 and and [02:25:32.960] >> March actually March. [02:25:34.080] >> Well yeah possibth [02:25:36.720] I’m not going to hold my breath for that [02:25:37.680] one. [02:25:37.840] >> Yes Chris either closer you get to each [02:25:40.319] one of these prognostications the lower [02:25:42.399] the probabilities go it’s going to [02:25:43.920] happen [02:25:44.319] >> right. Yeah, I mean we’ve seen a lot of [02:25:45.840] prophecies come and go of course over [02:25:47.520] the over the years in in so many [02:25:49.840] different permutations, but do you but [02:25:52.560] that aside, you know, any specific [02:25:54.560] prophecy or prognostication about things [02:25:57.120] coming in the future, do you think that [02:25:58.960] that’s a real possibility that whatever [02:26:00.800] they are, they could just reveal [02:26:02.319] themselves and take disclosure out of [02:26:04.880] the hands of of the government? [02:26:06.399] >> Very much so. I I think that that’s [02:26:08.000] actually what one of the major concerns [02:26:10.160] is on the part of the the powers that be [02:26:13.120] here uh is that they they want to try to [02:26:16.160] stay at least in their own mind in [02:26:18.080] control of the release of this [02:26:19.840] information. They’re extremely concerned [02:26:21.920] that because of the irresponsible [02:26:24.560] wielding of the threats of thermonuclear [02:26:26.640] war that uh that this is increasing the [02:26:30.319] probabilities that there could be an [02:26:31.760] accidental nuclear exchange uh and that [02:26:35.200] they’re convinced that the signals that [02:26:37.600] have been being sent to them by the ETSs [02:26:40.000] shutting down the missiles right [02:26:42.399] disabling an entire uh aircraft carrier [02:26:45.439] battle group [02:26:46.560] >> out at sea at night just shutting them [02:26:48.960] completely down. All their propulsion [02:26:51.760] gone, all their electric communications [02:26:53.600] gone, all their lights gone, dead in the [02:26:56.560] ocean uh in the middle of the night. Uh [02:26:59.200] that the demonstration that they they [02:27:00.880] have that capacity to do this uh is [02:27:03.280] sending chills throughout the entire [02:27:05.680] intelligence community uh and the [02:27:07.600] military. uh and that therefore what [02:27:10.160] they’re concerned about is losing their [02:27:12.800] capacity to utilize the threat of [02:27:16.560] initiating thermonuclear attacks against [02:27:20.000] anyone. Uh because if they go and do [02:27:22.960] that actually [02:27:24.319] >> that the ET people can intervene and [02:27:27.187] [snorts] shut off all the nuclear [02:27:28.800] weapons on the planet [02:27:30.720] >> all at once and that would reveal their [02:27:34.720] presence. [02:27:35.439] >> Mhm. Uh, and that would be their own [02:27:38.399] term, catastrophic. [02:27:40.240] >> Yes. Yes. I mean, there’s going to be [02:27:41.920] inevitably a lot of people listening [02:27:43.760] wondering why does it need to come to [02:27:45.359] that? Why don’t they just do it? Why [02:27:47.200] don’t they just decide? [02:27:48.080] >> Well, let me let me tell you something [02:27:49.439] that was we Lou and I after we we just [02:27:53.359] come back from one of the meetings with [02:27:54.960] the inspector general in Washington and [02:27:57.840] we were sitting at this restaurant. Uh, [02:28:00.240] it was closed. I think Lou knew who who [02:28:03.200] owned it and we were just there just [02:28:05.439] some of and some of the couple of the [02:28:07.040] staff people from ATIP. [02:28:08.800] >> Yeah. [02:28:09.040] >> Right. Uh and one of the guys from ATIP [02:28:11.439] was was expressing real frustration over [02:28:13.760] this whole process. Right. And he said, [02:28:15.760] you know, why is it that these beings [02:28:17.359] don’t just come down and make themselves [02:28:19.760] present, you know, and I said, well, [02:28:22.560] there’s a there’s a famous story about a [02:28:25.200] young boy that was uh that loved [02:28:27.520] butterflies. [02:28:29.120] uh and he had this big collection of [02:28:30.880] butterflies out in his backyard. He had [02:28:32.479] this big gazimemer tent where they all [02:28:34.080] flew around inside and he was uh looking [02:28:36.960] for a uh a sample of a a monarch [02:28:40.720] butterfly and he found finally found [02:28:43.120] this cocoon for a monarch butterfly and [02:28:46.080] he he brought it back home and he put it [02:28:47.840] in this little box of cotton and put [02:28:49.840] lights on it and kept it warm and kind [02:28:52.000] of watched it and monitored it. And as [02:28:54.080] the process unfolded uh uh through the [02:28:57.280] metamorphosis they that this this uh [02:29:00.000] butterfly started breaking out of the [02:29:02.319] cocoon. It was struggling against all [02:29:05.040] the little silken threads and was [02:29:06.720] breaking out and breaking out. And he [02:29:08.319] got down to there being just one last [02:29:11.040] silken thread. And [snorts] he was [02:29:13.200] struggling like mad, flapping his wings [02:29:15.120] and pushing and shoving and pushing and [02:29:16.800] shoving with his wings against this last [02:29:18.800] little silken thread. And the little boy [02:29:21.040] was becoming very sympathetic for this [02:29:23.520] this monarch butterfly. So he goes and [02:29:25.600] gets a little pair of scissors and he [02:29:27.200] clips the last silk and thread and the [02:29:29.840] butterfly came free. And it was an [02:29:32.000] absolutely perfect specimen of a monarch [02:29:34.000] butterfly except that it could never fly [02:29:38.560] >> because as it turns out the the pressing [02:29:42.319] against that last silken thread was [02:29:44.479] absolutely essential to build the entire [02:29:46.479] muscle structure for the butterfly to be [02:29:49.040] able to fly on his own. [02:29:51.359] >> That’s the answer to your story, [02:29:53.600] >> your question. [02:29:54.640] >> So it’s about our own evolution and [02:29:56.720] figuring it out for ourselves. That’s [02:29:58.479] what’s of core importance to this is [02:30:00.479] that if we have the outside hand help [02:30:02.640] us, then we cannot metamorphosize. [02:30:04.800] >> That’s right. [02:30:05.359] >> Yeah. And it seems like you’re getting [02:30:06.800] emotional talking about this. I’m I’m [02:30:08.880] curious what what’s driving that. [02:30:10.800] >> It’s a it’s I mean, it is such a it is [02:30:13.840] such a a subtle insight. [02:30:15.840] >> Yeah. [02:30:17.200] >> Such a such a a magnanimous [02:30:20.160] uh uh disposition toward us, [02:30:23.920] >> you know, to try to help us in that very [02:30:25.920] subtle important way. and not to fall [02:30:28.560] prey to the temptation. [02:30:30.080] >> Yeah. [02:30:30.479] >> To jump in. Why didn’t they stop us [02:30:32.160] right with the first atomic explosion? [02:30:34.000] Why did we let Why did they let us drop [02:30:35.840] these on Hiroshima in Nagasaki? Why did [02:30:38.479] they let us do the things that we’ve [02:30:40.319] been doing since, you know, since July [02:30:43.040] 16th of 1945? [02:30:45.200] >> Why are they letting us do that? Because [02:30:47.120] we’re struggling. We’re struggling [02:30:48.960] against that last silken thread, you [02:30:51.200] know, our own our our own kind of uh [02:30:54.319] disposition towards self-destruction. [02:30:56.399] >> Yeah. uh in the the they don’t want us [02:30:59.040] out in the galaxy, you know, bringing [02:31:01.520] these nuclear weapons. They don’t want [02:31:03.359] us to be able to do this. And not only [02:31:05.920] that, but they don’t want us to totally [02:31:07.520] destroy uh uh the capacity of our planet [02:31:11.760] to justestate life. Our planet is one of [02:31:15.359] the comparatively rare planets. There’s [02:31:17.120] obviously others because there’s other [02:31:18.399] species, [02:31:19.680] >> but it’s comparatively rare for a planet [02:31:21.920] to be able to actually justestate life. [02:31:24.479] >> Yeah. Uh and so very very clearly we [02:31:27.120] have tons of evidence that they’re here [02:31:29.120] they’re gathering flora and fauna in in [02:31:31.760] genetic material including human genetic [02:31:34.160] material you know and they’re obviously [02:31:36.640] doing something with it you know that [02:31:38.800] and it appears that possible that they [02:31:41.600] are actually seeding life on other [02:31:44.960] planets. [02:31:45.920] >> That’s where I thought you were going to [02:31:46.800] go. I thought you were going to go the [02:31:47.760] hybrid direction. [02:31:48.560] >> No they’re they’re talking about seeding [02:31:50.640] life on other planets. planets that [02:31:53.120] haven’t yet developed the capacity to [02:31:54.880] gestate life but can sustain life [02:31:58.319] >> and will then become planets that are [02:32:00.000] rich with with life in the evolution of [02:32:02.960] life. Okay. And and a massive [02:32:05.920] thermonuclear war on our planet will [02:32:09.280] totally mutate [02:32:11.520] >> the entire genetic pool of our planet. [02:32:14.960] Okay. not just terminate the life of our [02:32:18.319] particular species, you know, in [02:32:20.560] whatever it is that we can contribute [02:32:22.640] and and they can see into the future as [02:32:25.840] you know because they they’ve been able [02:32:27.040] to get outside of the matrix of time of [02:32:29.920] of space time. [02:32:31.520] >> At least it seems like they would have a [02:32:32.960] better capacity of forecasting what [02:32:34.960] could happen [02:32:36.240] >> except apparently that it’s not perfect. [02:32:38.479] >> It’s not perfect. uh because there [02:32:40.640] because there there is a thing to even [02:32:42.960] which they are subject and that happens [02:32:45.200] to be the infinite and eternal. [02:32:47.600] >> The great mystery. You know that the the [02:32:51.200] infinite and eternal sea of completely [02:32:54.240] undifferentiated consciousness that [02:32:56.880] abides out beyond the sum total of all [02:32:59.359] the mass and energy. [02:33:00.560] >> Yeah. [02:33:00.960] >> Dark and regular massive. Yeah. It’s the [02:33:04.080] infinite and eternal consciousness that [02:33:06.319] has unfolded into being the material [02:33:09.040] universe and continues to manifest the [02:33:12.080] material universe uh which is the great [02:33:14.399] mystery. And so that there is something [02:33:16.399] beyond this psychic capacity to be able [02:33:19.520] to directly and experientially engage [02:33:22.960] this kind of uh electromagnetic [02:33:25.520] phenomenon that bonds all these [02:33:27.600] ultimately irreducent energies of matter [02:33:29.200] together into this harmonic hole. [02:33:31.120] There’s a there’s a an infinite and [02:33:33.280] eternal consciousness. [02:33:34.720] >> Yeah. [02:33:35.120] >> That abides out beyond the sum total of [02:33:37.600] all the mass and energy that makes up [02:33:39.120] the universe. Okay. Uh and that’s the [02:33:42.000] great mystery. And the ET people are [02:33:44.319] subject even to this. [02:33:45.600] >> I would hope so. [02:33:46.640] >> Yeah. [02:33:46.960] >> Yeah. And I hope that they’re serving [02:33:48.560] that and that they’re trying to help us [02:33:50.399] initiate ourselves into a higher [02:33:52.000] awareness. [02:33:53.200] >> Oscar Wolf reached out to me on his [02:33:55.359] deathbed. He was a a clerk typist for [02:33:57.760] the project blue book. uh and he he uh [02:34:01.439] was a US Army clerk typist and was [02:34:04.000] assigned to uh the special unit in [02:34:06.560] Project Blue Book that dealt with the [02:34:09.520] 700 cases that they couldn’t even [02:34:12.479] conceivably explain away uh because [02:34:14.880] there were just too many people that had [02:34:16.399] seen it, too many credible sources, too [02:34:18.479] many photographs and so they had a whole [02:34:20.479] unit that was devoted to kind of looking [02:34:22.720] into those particular cases. and he was [02:34:25.040] the Kirk typist and they would bring the [02:34:27.760] guys that were actually in the field [02:34:29.280] doing the interviews that would come [02:34:30.479] back and you know take out the napkins [02:34:32.560] and give them to him and their notes and [02:34:34.160] stuff and he would write up the reports [02:34:36.319] and he he was there for a long time you [02:34:38.800] know and it went from late 1952 all the [02:34:41.439] way 67 he was there for the whole and he [02:34:44.479] developed a really close relationship [02:34:46.160] with the commander [02:34:47.600] >> uh of the of the whole unit [02:34:49.760] >> and uh uh he the the commander uh was [02:34:54.240] invited to go to S4. [02:34:57.120] >> Yeah. [02:34:57.680] >> Uh and he he brought he brought uh uh [02:35:01.200] Wolf with him, right? Oscar Wolf uh went [02:35:04.880] with him because he they were both part [02:35:06.960] of the same religious community, this [02:35:09.520] thing called the worldwide church of [02:35:11.120] God, [02:35:11.840] >> right? And so they go they go to Area [02:35:14.720] 51. They got brought underground to S4. [02:35:17.680] They were in S4 and they come to this [02:35:19.680] place where this ET being is there, [02:35:22.800] right? Uh, and he’s being interviewed. [02:35:25.760] Uh, he’s perfectly cooperative, totally [02:35:28.319] friendly, and he’s in this room with [02:35:30.640] this big two-way mirror, and Oscar can [02:35:33.760] see him in there. And Oscar’s afraid of [02:35:35.680] him. Thinks he’s demonic. [02:35:37.920] >> What does he look? Is he supposed to [02:35:39.120] look like [02:35:40.399] >> six feet tall? He was a big He was a [02:35:41.920] tall white. Okay. You know, with the [02:35:43.120] with the big head and the big eyes, but [02:35:44.880] he’s like almost six feet tall. And they [02:35:46.800] had this like blue jumpsuit they had on [02:35:49.439] him. [02:35:50.000] >> So, the same as the Hollowman incident, [02:35:51.760] apparently. Yes. very much so. Uh and uh [02:35:54.640] and and his commander goes in to the [02:35:58.160] room to have this telepathic exchange [02:36:00.000] with him and uh and and Oscar won’t go [02:36:03.280] in because he’s afraid of him, right? [02:36:06.319] And so he stays outside and it turns out [02:36:08.240] that the guys that were there that were [02:36:10.160] attending to the the guy uh they had [02:36:13.840] been doing interviews with him, these [02:36:15.359] telepathic interviews. They had these [02:36:17.600] card files of notes that they had taken [02:36:20.080] from the interviews, right? and and one [02:36:22.240] of them uh the and they showed him to to [02:36:25.040] Oscar. Oscar was sitting there instead [02:36:27.280] of going and seeing the being himself, [02:36:29.200] you know, is sitting there kind of going [02:36:30.560] through the cards and one of the cards [02:36:33.200] the question they asked the ET guy, he [02:36:35.040] said, “Who are you guys?” Yeah. You [02:36:37.280] know, and and what are you doing? Where [02:36:39.040] do you come from? And and he said that, [02:36:41.439] you know, I am part of a a a group of [02:36:44.160] different individuals that come from [02:36:46.240] different star systems here in our [02:36:49.120] galaxy in this galaxy. And we’ve been [02:36:51.760] tasked to go around and monitor life as [02:36:55.200] it’s developing on different uh on [02:36:57.120] different planets. Uh and uh and that [02:36:59.920] that’s what that’s what we’re doing. [02:37:01.840] That’s what I’m doing. And the follow-up [02:37:04.080] question was like, “What do you mean [02:37:05.439] you’ve been tasked like who who tasked [02:37:07.280] you to do this?” And he said, “Well, you [02:37:10.160] you people would refer to it as God, but [02:37:14.000] it’s very different than you think.” [02:37:15.760] Mhm. [02:37:18.240] >> I really hate to drop the mic there, my [02:37:20.560] friend, but I just got the text message [02:37:22.399] from the owner of the studio saying [02:37:24.319] saying we need to wrap up. [02:37:26.080] >> But that revelation is a huge one and I [02:37:28.720] wish we could riff further on it. I know [02:37:30.160] you talked to Chris Ramsey about this, [02:37:31.520] too. So, if you’re watching this and you [02:37:33.439] want more of that story, check out the [02:37:35.359] Area 52 episode after this one. But I [02:37:37.920] really hope we get a chance to have [02:37:39.200] additional conversations, my friend, [02:37:40.640] because you’re you’re one of the most [02:37:43.600] >> fascinating, brilliant human beings with [02:37:45.920] one of the craziest histories of anybody [02:37:48.080] on this planet. You’ve been involved in [02:37:49.840] so many novel, pivotal moments in [02:37:52.399] cultural history, and here you are on [02:37:54.240] the precipice of another one again. So, [02:37:56.560] thank you so much for your time [02:37:59.439] for gailing me with all these awesome [02:38:00.800] stories for what you’re doing. You know, [02:38:02.399] this is this is how it’ll happen. This [02:38:04.479] is how it happens is regular people say, [02:38:07.200] you know, if if if I get an opportunity [02:38:09.760] to talk with lots of people, what is it [02:38:12.240] I want to talk about? How about [02:38:13.840] something that’s really meaningful? How [02:38:15.760] about something that’s the most [02:38:16.800] meaningful thing you can possibly talk [02:38:18.479] about? [02:38:19.200] >> Yeah. [02:38:19.439] >> And [snorts] that’s what this is. [02:38:21.920] >> Thank you, my friend. [02:38:23.359] >> Thank you. [02:38:23.920] >> All right, we’ll stop it there. If [02:38:26.479] you’re if you’re watching, [02:38:29.120] >> I don’t I don’t know. [02:38:31.520] Whoever you are, the overlord. [02:38:34.640] Yeah.